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(108 posts)

Would anyone be interested?......

  • Started 3 years ago by danielleS
  • Latest reply from alki_2008

  1. danielleS
    Member Profile

    So I was thinking, as a member of the white race, wanting to be part of the solution rather than the problem of white racism and all it intails, I'd like to open up an informal dialogue about such subjects as racism, white privilege, poverty, opportunity, (or lack thereof) and maybe even white guilt.

    I am no expert on these subjects, but feel competent enough on them to facilitate an honest conversation about them. I know Im not the only white person who witnesses daily injustices pertaining to people of color in our society and I'd really enjoy getting together once a week? month? maybe on a Sunday morning here in West Seattle to progress with those in the same boat.

    I know there are formal events like the White Privilege Conference and whatnot that address these topics, but I'd like to build a coalition of people in a more intimate setting. Uncomfortable, maybe. But necessary? Long overdue? Seems like it.

    So anyone else interested?

    Posted 3 years ago #         
  2. charlabob
    Member Profile

    charlabob

    Bump.

    Yes! Sign me up -- I used to belong to a "Nation" discussion group (from the Nation Magazine) and we talked about this a lot. One of the first things I, personally, would like to talk about is white privilege/inequity versus class privilege/inequity. I *suspect* that's going to be a hot topic within and without the new administration.

    (I'm disappointed you got no response--and hopeful that there were PMs from people who didn't want to unleash the hounds of denial by perpetuating this thread.)

    Could any Unitarians tell us if you have these going?

    Posted 3 years ago #         
  3. i would also like to join this conversation.

    there was an interesting piece on NPR yesterday or the day before about a study recently done in Canada looking at the difference between what we think we would feel and do when faced with racism and what we actually do that is disturbing... it seems we don't walk our talk as much as we would like to think.

    I would like to think i walk my talk... but in my heart i know that some days i struggle to do so...

    i think the same is true of privilege... though i am often among the first to speak out when i see injustice related to lack of privilege... i choose my clothing to limit that prejudice towards myself...

    oh.. don't get me wrong.. i also choose clothing i like and that i hope looks good on me.. you can be well dressed and still have no fashion sense... but i admit that i learned at an early age how to use people's prejudices to benefit myself by dressing well... and i also admit that when i find myself initially facing that prejudice i automatically mentally review what i am wearing that "tipped them off" that i don't belong... and i can generally pinpoint my "mistake" within seconds.

    To my credit.. that process generally makes me smile at myself.. and to their credit that smile often connects with the person who quickly forms a second opinion...

    but i pander to prejudice in ways i am not entirely proud of...

    Posted 3 years ago #         
  4. TheHouse
    Member Profile

    TheHouse

    Do you hear the crickets?

    Posted 3 years ago #         
  5. house..

    nice to see you but i wish you had waded in with your thoughts instead of trying to kill the thread by being snarky...

    Posted 3 years ago #         
  6. charlabob
    Member Profile

    charlabob

    Deleted by poster -- who forgot her own forum "rules". :-)

    Posted 3 years ago #         
  7. Anonymous
    Member Profile

    I am not interested in even *one* meeting such as those proposed by danielleS.

    I think urban, liberal, white people's self-flagellation is irrelevant and boring, and the (white guilt)/(white hatred) of an individual white person is probably not so individual as he/she may think.

    BTW, I am a member of a racial/ethnic minority: Native American.

    Suggested reading:
    "The End of White America?" by Hua Hsu
    http://www.theatlantic.com/doc/200901/end-of-whiteness

    Posted 3 years ago #         
  8. wow, Scott...you really have us pegged, don't you. And we haven't even met yet...Thanks....

    Posted 3 years ago #         
  9. ScottB...

    but would you be interested if the subject were racial discrimination among native american tribes and the issue of privilege as it applies to those tribes who were granted tribal status and thus have had access to economic opportunities denied other tribes... and how that privilege has become political clout that has been used to further discriminate against those native Americans not so privileged... to deny them access to the certification that would allow them to access privilege?

    This subject is not limited to pasty white folks...

    in fact, discrimination among competing factions of ethnic groups often exceeds that of interracial origin. Difficulties taking personal responsibility for both discrimination and abuse of privilege aren't limited to one ethnic group...

    Any time we separate individuals into us and them based on some arbitrary standard and not on individual merits, we are indulging in discrimination.

    "I think urban, liberal, white people's self-flagellation is irrelevant and boring, and the (white guilt)/(white hatred) of an individual white person is probably not so individual as he/she may think."

    don't you think that merits discussion even if you might choose not to join it?

    Posted 3 years ago #         
  10. Scott B. glad to see that you know all about everything and have no room to grow. Clearly you have mastered all as evidenced by your comments about the LGBT community. I am also Native American, along with many other things and gay as well and I know I still have much to learn.

    Posted 3 years ago #         
  11. alki_2008
    Member Profile

    alki_2008

    This thread is more confusing to me than it was when I read it this morning and there were only 2 comments.

    So, what would the discussions be centered around again? About caucasian privilege alone or about all types of racism (ethnic, gender, sexuality)?

    Thanks.

    Posted 3 years ago #         
  12. charlabob
    Member Profile

    charlabob

    Alki, here's my theory: if we ever get together and if we behave as progressives normally do, the discussions will be centered on whatever set of privileges whoever is there wnats to talk about. That's what makes us fun (and frustrating). :-)

    BTW, I don't have guilt and I hardly ever flagellate. Any idea that's what these discussions are about is BORINGLY knee-jerkedly obtuse. G-d I do love stereotypes, even about me.

    Posted 3 years ago #         
  13. Anonymous
    Member Profile

    Well, I would be interested in knowing more about what the OP had in mind for these discussion get-togethers, considering it was her idea.

    Posted 3 years ago #         
  14. charlabob...

    as a theory i suspect that one is as good as any...

    discussions are what you make of them, aren't they:)

    i would enjoy an honest discussion about just about any facet of this subject. even here:)

    Posted 3 years ago #         
  15. Anonymous
    Member Profile

    And I would be interested in knowing more about what ScottB thinks instead of just assuming. This discussion has come up before and another person (non-white) made similar remarks. Basically get over ourselves and our obsession with how everything makes US feel.

    Posted 3 years ago #         
  16. mom2soren
    Member Profile

    UW is offering a course on this topic right now, as it relates to healthcare:

    NURS 550 White Privilege and Racism in Health and Human Services (3)
    Explores relationships among the psychosocial health of people of color, American cultural patterns of intersecting forms of oppression (e.g., gender, race, and class) and the role of health professionals in defining, ameliorating and/or aggravating psychosocial distress. Credit/no credit only. Offered: jointly with WOMEN 550.
    Instructor Course Description: David G. Allen

    Posted 3 years ago #         
  17. Yeah, I'd like to know more about the original intent. There are some interesting conversations to be had when you realize that white is a race too. I'd be interested - I haven't had a real conversation about this since I graduated last year and I feel my racial awareness skills going soft.

    Posted 3 years ago #         
  18. mom2soren...

    i think it's wonderful both that this course is being offered.. and that you posted it...

    cait...

    i suspect all of our racial awareness skills could use a bit of updating.

    Posted 3 years ago #         
  19. danielleS
    Member Profile

    Well, I think my original idea was kinda like what Cait was talking about. Basicly, I think too often, white is seen as a standard, rather than an ethnicity in itself. And uses of words like "ethnic" to describe haircare products in Bartell's (and lots of other places) made for people other than white, is marginalizing to those people. I notice this subtle form of racism and others too. And I'd like to get together with other white people as a kind of fellowship for change and progression. I know that we can end the awful affects of racism in our country, but racism is a white problem. And I think it's time that white people start talking about it.

    I really would like to meet and share ideas, literature, and stories for the purpose of moving the goal of ending racism, by starting on a neighborhood level. Like I say, Im no expert. Just someone who has become aware that although we are all equal, the fact is that there are not equal opportunities and resources for everyone.

    So this isn't really intended to invite people who want to argue about whether or not racism still affects our society, or whether it can only be a white problem due to the characteristic of power in its definition. These things I already know. What I want is people who already accept those things as fact, and would like to be part of the solution, rather than the problem.

    Posted 3 years ago #         
  20. Danielle,

    If you really want to make a difference, volunteer
    where you are the minority. That's what I do.
    There are many place you can do that. Try a downtown shelter or many other organizations here in Seattle.
    I happen to volunteer with youths and find it very rewarding.
    Bring you idea's to the 34th meeting?

    Posted 3 years ago #         
  21. danielleS
    Member Profile

    Thanks Dunno, I do that. But still I see examples in everyday life of exclusion and discrimination. Of prejudice and misuse of power and it concerns me. And I think that it will not end on its own. I think it's going to require white people to get together and start dealing with the harsh realities of our culture's history, and current state.

    Great article Scott B. I was affected by it.

    So, anyone interested in getting together to start a dialogue, let me know. I recommend Peggy McIntosh's essay "White Privilege: Unpacking the invisible knapsack". You can easily find it online. It's a good starting point for the conversation.

    Posted 3 years ago #         
  22. Anonymous
    Member Profile

    danielleS,

    Thank you for reading the article by Hua Hsu. Hua Hsu's article has more eloquent and concise writing than I could manage about the issue(s).

    I will read the Peggy McIntosh essay that you mentioned.

    I am not very interested in arguing about the issue(s). I suggest others read what Hua Hsu wrote instead of hoping for an argument with me.
    Here:
    "The End of White America?" by Hua Hsu
    http://www.theatlantic.com/doc/200901/end-of-whiteness

    I should try to clarify: my main attitude about the race issue(s) is that I think white people don't need to beat themselves up anymore about race issue(s), and that self-flagellation is what I find boring and increasingly irrelevant.

    Full disclosure about my race/ethnicity etc.: my father is 4/4 German, my mother is 3/4 Inupiat(Eskimo) and 1/4 Irish, and they were married so I have my father's last name. If you look at the fractions, I am 1/2 German, 3/8 Inupiat(Eskimo), and 1/8 Irish. That is a 5/8:3/8 ratio for anyone who hasn't calculated the fractions, and if that provides an aha! moment, fine, but that 1/8 (or the 1/2, or even the 5/8) has not made a noticeable difference in my 51 years of life. I am assimilated, which has made quite a difference in my life.

    Posted 3 years ago #         
  23. well, I certainly don't feel "privileged" in my life...and we are all of some kind of ethnicity. I'm German, English, French. A friend is half german, half Puerto Rican, andother is half german, half Mexican,(they both look terribly white to me) yada yada yada...I don't mean to make light of your ethnic background , Scott. What I'm saying is...we all need discussion, even you, as you seem to have some sort of negative feeling about "white" people, who may or may not be entirely "white" by ethnicity. What we "see" isn't always what we get, for sure...

    glad to see you're still in the fray :)

    Posted 3 years ago #         
  24. Anonymous
    Member Profile

    JanS,

    I don't have negative feelings about white people. I have never been able to finish reading "Bury My Heart at Wounded Knee" because it is so sad, but war/conquest/defeat has always been part of life, so I don't have any bitterness about subjugation of Native Americans in North America. That's just what happened during that period of time.

    I do wish immigrants would assimilate into our melting pot. That does not seem to be happening anymore.

    Posted 3 years ago #         
  25. charlabob
    Member Profile

    charlabob

    Thanks to Scott and Danielle for their reading recs. Both should be required reading for anyone who wants to be thought of as a thoughtful citizen of the world. Not a flaggelatory word in either of them. :-)

    I think post racial is an obvious concept to many folks under 40 (age cut-off because I first learned of it from the multiracial daughter of a date whose friends had decided that's what they were.) That's why I have so much hope -- and why I'm so glad I'll be around for part of the ride.

    Posted 3 years ago #         
  26. Anonymous
    Member Profile

    I'm not understanding how "I think white people don't need to beat themselves up anymore about race issue(s)..."(-ScottB) translates into: having "negative feelings towards white people." (-JanS)?

    Thanks for the link, btw, Scott. Very interesting.

    Also, that sounds like an incredibly interesting course at UW, mom2soren. Thanks for sharing. Furthering my education on issues such as these is right up my alley and something I've been looking into doing. Thanks again!

    Posted 3 years ago #         
  27. ScottB...

    i think you answered my question..

    i am all for assimilation.. though as you must know the doors for assimilation are more open for some than for others..

    but if assimilation is your goal, why wouldn't efforts like DanielleS's interest you?

    If we have a better understanding of what we do to discriminate and therefore consciously strive to limit that discrimination...

    aren't we making it easier for those who desire to assimilate?

    Posted 3 years ago #         
  28. TheHouse
    Member Profile

    TheHouse

    I would never speak for anyone else, but here is my take:

    Making the statements like "White Privilege" or "White Guilt" are generalizations. No different from generalizing that all black people have rhythm, all Asians are smart or all Mexicans work hard. Bottom line is that they generalize a race and don't speak to individual situations.

    Jan has already stated above that she does not feel privileged, as millions of white people would agree. Some of you would probably argue that she is "blinded" by her "white privilege". I would argue that privilege is a subjective term and is relative.

    I would also agree with Dunno above. Rather than sitting around a coffee house feeling self pity for one another, look for true ways to break stereotypes. If you view your local supermarket listing foods as "ethnic", then do you also view Black Entertainment Television, Chinatown or an area in Miami named "Little Havana" as racist terms as well?

    And I wanted to interject a personal viewpoint/example. It illustrates my world view. I interviewed for promotions 3 times from 2000-2003. 2 of the 3 times, I was beat out by women (both white). The other time I was beat out by a white male. Not one time during all three interviews did I scream "Yippe!! I just helped advanced women in the workplace". Not one time did I say that they got the jobs because they were women. They kicked my ass fair and square and I wanted to kick their ass. There was never a thought of self pity or feeling that they should have got the jobs b/c I am a man and they deserve the opportunity.

    There are more resources allotted to minorities in this country than to the white majority. Show me an individual case of anyone (White, Black, Hispanic, or otherwise) who states that they don't have opportunity in this country and I will show what they are passing up......where there is a will, there is a way.

    Posted 3 years ago #         
  29. Hi All: I am a little late to this discussion, and possibly, at this late hour, may say something that is a bit of a detour... but here goes anyway.

    Absolutely, white privilege, not dissimilar to male privilege, is alive and well. Whether discussing it or not will change things, I think, is a good question. Personally, I think it won't. Those who are willing to discuss and self-examine are generally those who don't need to, so to speak. For there to be a more general change in cultures and subcultures, the choir needs to speak to others, not to each other, if you get my drift. I hope I am making sense.

    On the detour note -- I think male privilege is a way more counter-productive and anti-democratic force world-wide, by far, and certainly still in the U.S., than any racism... but I could be wrong. What about that one, guys and women -- the sexism discussion group?

    Posted 3 years ago #         
  30. Anonymous
    Member Profile

    NewResident wrote:
    "I'm not understanding how 'I think white people don't need to beat themselves up anymore about race issue(s)...'(-ScottB) translates into: having 'negative feelings towards white people.; (-JanS)?"

    I am certain that was my fault, NewResident.

    I knew there was an edit button for my own posts, and I had just clicked the "Send Post" button then reread what JT wrote when I thought of something I should have written. I quickly edited my post, but by then, JanS had replied to my (unedited) post.

    Here is what I added:
    "I should try to clarify: my main attitude about the race issue(s) is that I think white people don't need to beat themselves up anymore about race issue(s), and that self-flagellation is what I find boring and increasingly irrelevant."

    I tried to respond to your post a while ago, but due to my forgetfulness, I had a problem doing so. The problem resulted from a quirk of this WWW forum's software combined with my forgetfulness. I am accustomed to Usenet and slrn, not WWW "forums."

    I think it would be best if I no longer edited my posts. I think I should instead just post a new article in the thread as I would do via Usenet.

    Posted 3 years ago #         
  31. charlabob
    Member Profile

    charlabob

    Here's a thread-jack for you, but I think you're right (about editing posts). Except for typos, I've decided just posting something new works better. Otherwise, people respond to something that isn't there anymore and it just goes downhill from there. Hoooooray for us geezers who *remember* the halcyon days of usenet. :-)

    Posted 3 years ago #         
  32. beachdrivegirl
    Member Profile

    beachdrivegirl

    Carrying on with the thread jack...my personal favorites are the ones that someone posts, someone responds to, and then they delete theire entire original posts.. always keeps me guessing.

    Posted 3 years ago #         
  33. duckitude...

    "Those who are willing to discuss and self-examine are generally those who don't need to, so to speak."

    Too some extent i agree with you about this... those who view such a discussion as sitting around a room exchanging self pity certainly won't attend... but those who are curious might... and everyone in the room is likely to look at something differently as a result of being exposed to other people's perceptions...

    I think awareness is like a smile... When i walk down the street smiling...

    there are some people who are going to decide i must be crazy to smile and will dismiss me..

    and some who will decide that i am not going to change their attitude and frown..

    but for the most part people will smile back with varying degrees of feeling and for many that smile will change their attitude.. at least for a while.

    It works.. they have actually studied this one:)

    I think that increasing your awareness of the struggles other people face humanizes them as individuals and will ultimately change the way you view them and interact with them.

    After all, the largest form of discrimination happens when we don't recognize people as individuals worthy of our positive attention.. but as troublesome others...

    I believe that the sight of even one person treating another as an equal is enough to make those viewing stop and consider that individual.. if only for a split second...

    you build enough of those and you have change...

    i have seen this in my lifetime. Had you asked me when i was a young woman, i would say that being of acknowledged mixed race would have been a greater barrier to a man's success than being black.

    Yet, the behavior of a few interracial couples and their acceptance by their peers during the 60s and the proliferation of children that resulted and acceptance by grandparents and then by friends of friends has definately changed that... and in only 2 generations:)

    amazing....

    Posted 3 years ago #         
  34. JoB: Nicely said. I was in a mixed race marriage that started in 1969 and went for many, many, years, until a split up over the issue of children (she didn't want any...). She was such a "tanned" Filippino that she was essentially treated as a black person most of the time. I am white, with no mixed blood. We met in college.

    There is a theory that the more intermixing that occurs, the less race has to do with interactions and power. I can't remember who advocates mixed marriages for the purpose of moving us all along the road to humanism... but, there is someone who does.

    Posted 3 years ago #         
  35. To TheHouse - your comments are exactly what I would expect from someone with white privilege.

    Just because you don't experience it doesn't mean that it doesn't exist.

    You not recognizing that a white female was promoted instead of you as women's liberation... really isn't the point.

    People being treated differently because of the color of their skin is the point. example: To walk into a bank to open and account/loan and be concerned that the color of your skin alone is going to have an impact on how you are treated is an issue that those of us with white privilege never have to worry about.

    Posted 3 years ago #         
  36. TheHouse
    Member Profile

    TheHouse

    Shelbi, I provided you a specific (and personal) example. You continue to generalize. I'm glad you think I have something that you cannot prove or disprove.

    You generalized again in your above post (terms like "people"). Provide me a specific example and we'll discuss this further.

    There is a definitive line between being privileged and working hard for what you have/paying dues. Don't attempt to blur the line.

    Posted 3 years ago #         
  37. shelbi....

    there have been many times in my life when i wished i was male so that the discrimination i faced as a female simply didn't exist...

    as there have been many times in my life that i have been glad that i was born with the advantage of pale skin and coloring... so i didn't have to face that discrimination...

    but i know that i don't have a clue what it is like to live with that kind of discrimination because i saw only the most obvious examples.

    As individuals, it really is all about us, you know. We extrapolate how others are affected by challenges from those we experience ourselves.

    so, the more privilege you have during your formative years the less likely you are to be able to understand the lack of privilege experienced by others and how that impacts their lives...

    It takes work to see that what you take for granted about the way life works just plain doesn't apply to everyone...

    I have watched the resistance to affirmative action by those who subconsciously.. or consciously.. counted on their privilege to help them climb one more step up the socioeconomic ladder and find themselves thwarted by the leveling of the playing field... with some amusement.

    Some take that challenge on and grow from it... becoming more successful by becoming more aware of their environment and developing their unique assets.

    other whine like a child deprived of their favorite toy..

    I know change takes time...

    i can't speak to that which is centered on the color of your skin.. though i think that intermarriage has already made incredible inroads there...

    but i can speak to discrimination against women.

    A man gains a different perspective when his girls grow into maturity and begin facing the dissonance between the expectation their parent created that everything is possible and the reality of discrimination...

    For some, that perspective never widens beyond the individual instances of prejudice their daughters experience.. but for many it is a wake up call about male privilege that could happen no other way...

    There is always hope:)

    Posted 3 years ago #         
  38. Before I made ice cream I was a shipwright. That is a carpenter on boats. In a shipyard it is a prima donna job. I have never seen an African American Shipwright. Seen plenty of Scalers (worst job), Welders (second worst), but in the wood shop all the faces are white.
    I doubt there is any intention to keep Blacks out, but I think when they apply for the job they are just not considered. Regular carpentry is the same way. plenty of Latin and Black framers, but the trim carpenters are always white.

    I know I have a privilege being white. Police don't pull me over nearly as often as brown skinned folks. I don't get followed around stores. I am less likely to be shot, imprisoned, and my life expectancy is nearly 20 years longer just for the color of my skin.
    There has been a lot of advancements made in the past 50 years, but a lot more needs to be done on both sides. I think a Black Pres is going to help that a lot, both giving young black men a role model, and convincing people like my Grandfather that a Black man could do a job as well or better than a White Man.

    For a White Male to say that everyone has the same opportunities as him, he is either ignorant, or full of it.

    Posted 3 years ago #         
  39. Anonymous
    Member Profile

    I would be curious to hear from someone of an ethnicity, other than white, to share an example of how they will( or would) know that racism towards minorities is over?

    Posted 3 years ago #         
  40. NR, I think you may get different answers depending on who you talk with. Youtube has some different things, interviews that are post - Nov.04 election...here's one of them:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Af512Vh5G4Q

    or this:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ksFx4tnWP1A

    or this:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Att2fWlVSsw

    the conversation among us all needs to continue, I think...

    Posted 3 years ago #         
  41. JanS...

    so.. what would it look like from the standpoint of white privilege?

    has anyone on youtube posted on that?

    Posted 3 years ago #         
  42. TheHouse
    Member Profile

    TheHouse

    To FullTilt, JoB and all the others on this thread that want to make themselves and others think that they are truly good doers in the world:

    To assume that all white people are privileged is ignorant. Once again, you are stereotyping WHITE people!! if you don't see that, you are blind. Perhaps you as individuals were privileged, but that doesn't mean all white people are.

    And it's nice to be beating my head into a wall again with the same gadflys. Perhaps if you worked more than you blogged you would change your tune.

    Posted 3 years ago #         
  43. ToddinWestwood
    Member Profile

    ToddinWestwood

    I tried to stay out of this one, sorry.

    House, I agree with you.

    There has to be some better way to make the world a better place than to sit around blogging or having a meeting, feeling sorry for your self because of your race and what a small percentage of that race may think about another race.

    If you truly want to do something to make a difference, go to an underprivelaged neighborhood and help out by working with a center for sinlge moms, pick up trash, buy a homeless person lunch.

    Sitting around feeling sorry for yourself isnt gonna get SH!* done.

    Posted 3 years ago #         
  44. beachdrivegirl
    Member Profile

    beachdrivegirl

    TheHouse,
    Come on you know both you and I only got to where we are in our careers because we are white. It has nothing to do with the sixty plus hour work weeks I have CHOSEN to work, or the constant goal setting I have disciplined myself to do. It is just b/c I am white and privledged. And you have to remember everyone else obviously knows more about myself and you then we do about ourselves.

    Posted 3 years ago #         
  45. beachdrivegirl
    Member Profile

    beachdrivegirl

    And ToddinWestWood I 100% agree with you that is how come I have chosen to be very involved in various non profit organizations for the homeless such as Plymouth Housing. It is amazing what you can learn when you actually act on something rather than sit around and talk about it.

    Posted 3 years ago #         
  46. GenHillOne
    Member Profile

    House, I was so happy to see you enter the discussion again with more than a single flaming phrase. Please stay in it - it's constructive to have other points of view...it's not constructive to say things like, "perhaps if you worked more than you blogged you would change your tune"...BDG works 60+ hours a week and is on here plenty. Don't crap out with an easy insult that may or may not be true.

    Posted 3 years ago #         
  47. Kayleigh2
    Member Profile

    House, it's too bad you can't seem to post without insulting people. It alienates people when you demand respect but don't give it.

    Talking about white privilege is not stereotyping, much as you like to think it is. It's a matter of citing decades of research, science, and even *facts* that point to the advantages you have just by being culturally white. Conservatives often hate science and facts that don't jibe with their world view, but it's there nonetheless.

    It doesn't diminish any individual's accomplishments to say they benefited from white privilege. Lord knows I have benifted tremendously from it. I also benefited from being petite and considered pretty. That takes nothing away from my talents, smarts, accomplishments, or efforts (or lack thereof). I own my successes and failures and I am grateful for the advantages I was given. It's not a matter of either/or.

    To read some very good scholarship on the issue:

    http://www.redroom.com/blog/tim-wise/explaining-white-privilege-deniers-and-haters

    Posted 3 years ago #         
  48. GenHillOne
    Member Profile

    I might suggest, too, if this thread continues to dissolve, and you're interested in having the discussion, use the PM function to organize details and by all means, get together. As with any other topic, those not interested, don't need to participate.

    Posted 3 years ago #         
  49. beachdrivegirl
    Member Profile

    beachdrivegirl

    GHO-I am on here as a break as i am making me cold calls on the phone. :) Typically keeps me in a more cheerful mood when peeps are being rude to me. :):)

    Kayleigh2 thanks for the link I have actually enjoyed the links others have left on the topic and look forward to reading it when I get a chance.

    Posted 3 years ago #         
  50. alki_2008
    Member Profile

    alki_2008

    Interesting viewpoints here. Guess I'll throw some of my own opinions into the fray.

    There are certainly instances when being caucasian provides an advantage, but there are also instances when the reverse is true. For example, a caucasian college student looking for scholarships to apply to...finds plenty of scolarships that require x% of "xyz" ethinicity, but no scholarships for being caucasian. Some would argue that, since s/he is caucasian, then s/he doesn't need a scholarship...but there are plenty of 'poor' caucasians out there struggling to pay for college. That is just an example.

    Basically, I think there are some cases where being of "xyz" ethnicity provides advantages over being caucasian. Whether or not those advantages outweigh the disadvantages of not being caucasian is another argument.

    As others have noted, a person's ethnicity (whether they're in the majority or minority) is not the only thing that's going to determine the outcome of their lives. No one is destined to be rich or poor just because of their race. There are a lot of other factors that come into play...culture, financial status (not all whites are rich nor all blacks poor), individual personality, intelligence, environment, etc.

    The role of culture can be seen in homelessness, for example. The proportion of homeless that are Asian is very small (various surveys that can be googled) - this is not because all Asians are such hard-workers or so smart that they never become homeless, but because of their culture. In many Asian cultures, the extended family is such a huge thing and so if someone is too poor to afford a roof over their head, then they are taken in by other family members.

    On a side note...
    One thing I've always thought interesting was about ethnicity vs nationality. For example:
    "White" vs German, Irish, French, Russian, Australian, etc
    "Asian" vs Chinese, Japanese, Korean, Vietnamese, etc
    "Black" vs Somali, Zimbabwean, Haitian, Malawi, etc
    "Hispanic" vs Mexican, Portugese, Spanish, Brazilian, etc
    ETC
    The racism that some Hispanics experience (ie, Mexicans) might be different than the racism that other Hispanics experience (ie, Spanish)...so this is an example of where generalizing all "Hispanics" as the same "people" can pose a problem.

    I also think it's interesting that people see Obama as "black", even though he's 50%. I wonder if some caucasian voters would have been less likely to vote for him if he was 100% black.

    Anyway, not sure where I'm going with all this rambling. Still interested in whether or not a discussion group happens. I agree that there is racism exhibited by white people, so "racism is a white problem". If you meant to say that "racism is ONLY a white problem", then I don't agree...as there are certainly cases of racism amongst and between other ethnicities/nationalities. So, not sure if I'm eligible for the discussion group. :p

    For now, I'll finish some work and then read McIntosh and Hsu. :-)

    Posted 3 years ago #         

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