West Seattle Blog...

WSB Forum » Open Discussion

(33 posts)

Why did Denny Middle School have lockers....

Started 6 months ago by luckymom30
Latest reply from GenHillOne

luckymom30
Member Profile

that the students are not allowed to use? Wasn't that a big waste of money? Public funds? 6th - 8th graders are not permitted to use the lockers and must lug all their belongings, instruments, backpacks, coats, everything all day long because they aren't trusted to use them properly?

Posted 6 months ago #
WSB
Member Profile

Have you asked the principal?

It was alluded to at this meeting.
http://westseattleblog.com/2011/05/dennysealth-shared-campus-principals-talk-plans-logistics

Sorry I cannot remember his elaboration on the topic as to why. - TR

Posted 6 months ago #
Forest
Member Profile

I don't know the hallway widths at the new Denny school, but a school district rep at meetings prior to the WSHS renovation 10 years ago confided that open school lockers are technical violations of fire and safety codes as they relate to hallway obstructions. My guess is that lockers have been installed at Denny with some understanding that a code variance from the City Council will be forthcoming. I'd urge the Denny PTSA to call and write the school district to see what's taking so long.

Posted 6 months ago #
Que
Member Profile

I was at the meeting that WSB is referring to. The reasons given were:
1. It makes the hallways really loud if they use the lockers.
2. Middle school students are not very organized and their constantly needing to head back to their lockers to get stuff is super disruptive.
3. This way, they always have their stuff.
4. When I asked about how heavy and cumbersome their backpacks must be with all their books in them, I was told, "We don't use big textbooks in the same way that we used to in schools, so really, their backpacks don't end up being that heavy".

That being said, I have talked to 2 moms who say that they can't pick up their middle schooler's backpacks because they are so heavy.

This is certainly a concern of mine. Thanks for bringing it up.

Posted 6 months ago #
luckymom30
Member Profile

19 pounds is the average weight, carrying up to 6 journals, a school planner, 1 1/2 inch notebook, library books with school supplies among other items. Oh and add instrument and coat.

We were told that the students only carry afew small books, but quickly found out every class requires a journal everyday it quickly adds up. And you are given just 4 minutes between classes to get to your next class while climbing the stairs loaded down with all your belongings. No wonder the kids are tired when they get home.

I will try to contact the Denny PTA president but I also am asking other parents to do the same, maybe if more of us complain they will think of another solution.

I was not aware of the fire/safety violation for using the lockers.

Posted 6 months ago #
kootchman
Member Profile

Textbooks? Why haven't they gone to media yet? A lot easier to carry dvd/cd's or better yet, access the texts online. Updates from publishers are easier and less expensive than new text book purchases. Lost books a thing of the past. Content can be enhanced, made interactive, homework submitted online. The American Orthopaedic Association has published weight limits and standards to prevent long term bone and nerve damage. Many schools have adopted these standards. I don't know if this is the chart... but the recommendations should be followed.

http://ergonomics.about.com/od/ergonomicsforchildren/ss/bpweightchart.htm

Posted 6 months ago #
luckymom30
Member Profile

bump

Posted 6 months ago #
kellym
Member Profile

online media is great but what about access to this during the day not every student/class has computers/laptops nor does everyone have after school access to computers either.

my daughter's backpack weight is a joke for her small frame no wonder it's often dragged on the ground.

Posted 6 months ago #
luckymom30
Member Profile

kellym have you spoken to Jeff clark about this? I feel if more of us parents voiced our opinions about this maybe we could come up with a solution so our kids weren't lugging their belonging around all day.

I wrote Jeff Clark and I ask other parents to do the same.

Posted 6 months ago #
DBP
Member Profile

This is ridiculous. Somebody's got to be exaggerating here.

[What? People exaggerating on the Blog? No way! Not in a million billion years!!!!!!]

Posted 6 months ago #
luckymom30
Member Profile

http://westseattleblog.com/2011/05/dennysealth-shared-campus-principals-talk-plans-logistics

Maybe Jeff Clark should talk to the Sealth principal and see how it is done to allow students use of lockers.

Posted 6 months ago #
yeah-me
Member Profile

DBP, what part is exaggerated? Ok. Maybe not tiny mom being able to actually pick up the backpack.. But I'll tell ya -- my daughter is a forth grader and I sure wouldn't want to carry her backpack around all day.

Posted 6 months ago #
luckymom30
Member Profile

Get ready people if your child will be attending Denny they too will be lugging all their belongings all day (backpack, instrument, lunch even at lunchtime) long unless parents complain and do something.

Posted 6 months ago #
DBP
Member Profile

Nothing gets Seattle's knickers in a twirl like the issue of schools. Judging by discussions here, you'd think we had one of the top-performing school systems in the country, but such is not the case.

Sorry . . . I just don't see school lockers and the weight of textbooks as something parents/kids/teachers can't handle on their own. Seems like what you should be more worried about when it comes to school is whether your kid is actually learning anything useful there or not.

But how much discussion do we see on that?

Posted 6 months ago #
datamuse
Member Profile

Textbooks? Why haven't they gone to media yet? A lot easier to carry dvd/cd's or better yet, access the texts online. Updates from publishers are easier and less expensive than new text book purchases. Lost books a thing of the past. Content can be enhanced, made interactive, homework submitted online.

I can give you a couple of reasons:

1. Students by and large don't like e-textbooks (this isn't just anecdotal; there are studies, including a recent one from UW).

2. Online access is not 100% reliable and requires the student to have the necessary technological devices, which they may not have.

3. E-textbooks are cheaper? Hoo boy, I have a beautiful bridge I'd like to sell you. They may be cheaper to produce but they sure as hell ain't cheaper to buy.

4. Online homework interfaces are seriously hit or miss and often require more time and effort on the instructor's part to deal with--time that most of them don't have to spare.

E-textbooks may be It someday, but they aren't yet.

When I was in junior high/high school my backpack was crammed with notebooks and textbooks. It was HEAVY. I can't imagine having to do without a locker and having to carry that around all day.

Posted 6 months ago #
luckymom30
Member Profile

Thanks datamuse for your input.

The whole point of this posting was to get parents talking about this problem, get them to contact the school and get this ridiclous rule changed.

Posted 6 months ago #
datamuse
Member Profile

Believe me, luckymom30, if I had kids I'd be on the phone. The rationale Que cited from the meeting strikes me as ridiculous.

Posted 6 months ago #
Bostonman
Member Profile

In Junior High and High School my backpack was always filled. They didn't give us enough time to go to your locker between classes. Not only that but I walked to school, in Junior High it was about 3 miles, in High School I took the bus to Central Square and then walked about 2 miles. It was heavy, and annoying.

Guess what, I lived through it. If they put it on their back like its supposed to be then they will have less issues carrying it. If they carry it around by hand then yes it will be heavy.

Posted 6 months ago #
365Stairs
Member Profile

20 lb. packs for the middle school ages should be..among other physical benefits at this ripe age...a character builder.

We are coddling our kids too much.

Agree with DP & Bostonman on this one. Focus is on the wrong issue.

Posted 6 months ago #
luckymom30
Member Profile

•A loaded backpack should weigh between 10 and 15% of a child's body weight, according to the American Academy of Pediatrics. For example, a child weighing 100 pounds shouldn't carry more than 15 pounds.

Wonder if Madison Middle School and or area middle schools allow students the use of lockers?

Posted 6 months ago #
365Stairs
Member Profile

Good research Luckymom30. Now you are armed with the solution to this trivial issue.

Take an inventory of all the absolute necessities a middle school kid needs to carry everyday. Nothing more...nothing less. Standardize the backpack size for all kids and fit it all in there and see what it weighs...work backwards from there until 15% is achieved. Get the school board to agree to purchase scales...

These kids should see what a combat sniper has to carry in their packs...;)

Posted 6 months ago #
Bostonman
Member Profile

Most kids nowadays are dropped off or take the bus from a stop close to the house right to school. So this whole argument is over the fact they need to carry around extra weight walking between classes which all in all is maybe 500 feet a day. We should be asking the kids what their problem is, as parents should we hire assistants to walk around with them in school carrying their backpacks and picking up their garbage?

Posted 6 months ago #
WD
Member Profile

Let them use the lockers that were provided for them... good grief. What's the problem? Lockers have always been noisy and hallways have always been crowded. And Middle School students aren't organized enough? Seriously? They are kids... what do you expect? You have to TEACH them organizational skills.

The lockers were provided for a reason... Let the kids use them and put some rules in place around when and how to use them. Sounds like the school personnel are more the lazy and or disorganized ones.

Posted 6 months ago #
datamuse
Member Profile

Most combat snipers aren't middle school aged, 365Stairs. When they are, it's usually considered a sign that something's gone horribly wrong. For such a trivial matter, this seems to matter to you a lot...

Posted 6 months ago #
365Stairs
Member Profile

Oh datamuse...the literalist in you is truly aMUSEing...

My point was kids need perspective...perhaps it was a bit of a reach to compare combat snipers packs with what middle school kids carry...

"oops"

Posted 6 months ago #
kootchman
Member Profile

Bet an e-reader is a heck of a lot cheaper than texts. It's crazy, all those textbooks are digitized now... isn't that what we have a school administration for? Negotiating prices? And... if the little darlings lose em'... keeps their hands free for self defense too. I wouldn't know how damaging it is... I was pretty much text book free in HS.... I always turned them in in great condition though... unused, unmarred, pristine.

Posted 6 months ago #
westcoastdeb
Member Profile

I remember going to middle school and still lugging around 40-ish pounds of books, even with access to a locker. There just wasn't time to use it and it was out of the way. When it came down to the end of the day, when I had to take most of my books home with me anyway (for that elusive homework), there was the way too heavy bookbag. I think there should be a solution here, lockers will help, but until we do go the digital route kids will always be carrying too much weight.

Posted 6 months ago #
luckymom30
Member Profile

If Jeff Clark knew he wasn't going to allow them to use the lockers then why did we pay for them to be installed? I suppose other area middle schools allow the use of lockers or is Denny the exception?

Posted 6 months ago #
hoffanimal
Member Profile

I asked my son about this (he is a Denny student) as neutrally as I could and he said he wished they had lockers but it is not a big deal. He said there probably isn't enough time between classes to use the lockers anyway. Of course this begs the question - why did they design the school with lockers in the first place?

Personally, this is a non-issue for me. The distances they have to carry the backpacks are minimal. We like to go backpacking with our kids and this is good training! I guess I could see an argument if kids are walking home, but aren't they brining home books for homework anyway? Let’s suck it up. Seriously, there are some big issues Seattle schools need to deal with, but this isn’t one of them.

Posted 6 months ago #
365Stairs
Member Profile

Would it be totally un-cool for kids to use rolling packs? Isn't there a dual back and roller available in the market? If there isn't...well...there is someones next $million$.

See..datamuse...I care...

Posted 6 months ago #
Gina
Member Profile

I see Lafayette kids with rolling packs getting off the busses and walking down the sidewalks. Some of the kids drag the backpacks by a strap, I swear that the packs equal at least 50% of the body weight of the smaller children.

Posted 6 months ago #
hopey
Member Profile

If lockers are a "fire and safety code violation" why are they used at other middle schools? Students at Washington Middle School in the CD use the lockers installed in every hallway.

What a crock. If it's a "fire and safety code violation" for one school, then it's a violation for ALL schools, and locker use should cease immediately in every school that has them.

I wonder if there is something peculiar to Denny's construction -- perhaps the hallways were not built wide enough for lockers to be "safe"? That's the only plausible explanation I can think of for the discrepancy.

Posted 6 months ago #
GenHillOne
Member Profile

Denny hasn't used their lockers for years, even in the old building. It was a choice. IIRC from the explanation nearly 7 years ago, it first came out of even earlier security concerns (that thankfully are not a primary factor now). Again, I'm shaking the cobwebs out a bit, but I think they found that eliminating the locker stops had other effects, like less lollygagging between classes and quieter halls, which gave them options for staggered bells with fewer kids in the halls at one time. This seems to fit with what Que said. As far as I know, accommodations are made for Band & PE (& Art maybe?) students with their extra stuff.

The flip side is that Madison students aren't allowed to carry backpacks around, so they either carry everything loose in their arms or go to their lockers constantly; just a different style. Both with pros and cons. I don't know what other Seattle middle schools do.

I suspect that the lockers were installed for future flexibility. Perhaps it would be more expensive to add them later if they wanted them. I'm quite sure the hallways were built to fire code.

To me, it's just not a big deal and it was never an issue for us.

Posted 6 months ago #