Don't answer if you are inbetweener. Full blooded Republicans enlighten me with your thoughts please.I want to understand. Don't worry I'm not going to bash you.
Why are you a Republican?
5 hours went by and no Republican's responded here? I'm shocked!
Grew up in a single parent household with an income of about 13K a year. Mom put us through school and taught us to make the most of what we had. Don't complain or blame others. If you don't like your "place in life", work hard and study hard so you can change it - which we did.
Lower tax RATES (not revenues), strong national defense, less government but not NO government, and I have always been big on personal responsibility and accountability (same thing?).
Never got into the social aspects, although I am pro life, pro gay marriage and anti death penalty.
very similar circumstances produced this lone maverick democrat in a very Republican family.
In re-reading that I wasn't trying to say that Democrats are *not* those things (hard working, etc).
Those are just MY circumstances growing up - I am sure there are other factors that played into my disability!
I was for Nixon in 1960 as a nine year old. I have been Dem ever since.
so, smitty. we meet again.
how low do you want those tax rates?
and why? is it just for you, or do you really believe in voodoo economics, despite empirical evidence that it's a failure?
and, if i may, i have a follow-up question:
do you believe that pro-life policies contradict libertarianism? i.e. that government should stay out of people's personal lives unless and until it's in a woman's uterus, in which case we have a vested interest in interfering?
<full disclosure> this might strike you as funny, and a lot of my liberal friends will look at me as if i've grown a third arm, but i think it's consistent:
i'm pro-choice and i'm okay with the death penalty.
and i'm pretty liberal when it comes to responsible gun ownership. </full disclosure>
I like tax rates where they are currently. I am a firm believer in the Laffer curve and think that lower *rates* can (and have) produced higher revenues. That "sweet spot" on the Laffer is always changing however. Take the Clinton years - housing boom, tech boom all played more of a role in federal revenues that any tax policy (imo). Under Reagan, tax revenues soared even though rates were cut. It was spending that did us in (primarily defense). And yes, he did increase them later - after tax cuts had primed the pump.
I have struggled with abortion forever. I am not particularly religious, and certainly understand the keep "your hands off my body" approach, but just can't get over the fact that the human being inside deserves a "choice" as well, and the women's body should not "trump" the child's.
As to the death penalty, I just can't get my hands around even one innocent person being killed. I would rather lock them up for life and be done with them. I don;t think it is much of a deterrent in its current form either - it just takes way too long to work itself out.
"just can't get over the fact that the human being inside deserves a "choice" as well, and the women's body should not "trump" the child's"
that's the choice i made decades ago, but i am also the one who has had to bear the weight of that decision.... as does every woman every time she gives birth.
the problem with someone else deciding for you is that you still have to bear the weight of their decision.
if it's your decision.. it should be your responsibility...
are you willing to take that responsibility?
There are very few "true" Republicans left in West Seattle that can support the agenda that the national party stands for in good faith.
Smitty, it's good to see that you're not a die-hard Republican on issues like abortion and the death penalty. These are issues where the party contradicts itself in a wholesale fashion.
The Republican party has traditionally stood for individual freedoms and for the government to stay out of an individual's private matters.
Unfortunately, the party no longer stands for these things, mostly because it has been taken over by religious zealots that value their interpretation of religious values over individual rights.
The party also doesn't truly believe in low tax rates. It believes in higher effective tax rates for individuals, especially in lower income brackets, while hedge fund managers and others who receive most of their income from "investments" pay lower effective rates than someone who makes $30k/year (taking payroll taxes into account).
It would be nearly impossible to be a "true" Republican, truly believe what the party preaches, and be rational at the same time right now.
And this is coming from someone who voted for Republicans for most of his life, until the past few years.
The party has just become far too extreme nationally for me (and any other rational person, I would argue) to reasonably support.
Smitty, you gotta' start looking at other analyses than just the jilted stuff put out by the Cato Institute, et al.
The Laffer curve is junk science. If you think that the rise in Gov't revenue during Reagan was due to tax cuts you ain't looking at all the data.
He cut effective rates on the upper incomes dramatically but also jacked the rates on all us working stiffs via FICA, etc. Hence the few got big cuts, the many got the shaft. It was the auspicious beginning of shifting the tax burden from the investment class down to the average Joe & Jill. (You do know that the self-employed "entrepreneurs" that the GOP love to claim as their own had their rates go from 8% to 15% during the 80's, right?)
Revenues also rose during Clinton when he raised income rates back up.
If you think Laffer's got it figured out, here's a quote for you:
...on August 28, 2006, when stock broker and UC Berkeley alumnus Peter Schiff appeared on CNBC and proclaimed that by 2008, our addiction to debt-financed consumption and the collapse of the housing bubble would plunge the country into one of the deepest recessions it had ever seen. Squaring off against Schiff was none other than Art Laffer, former economic advisor to Ronald Reagan and the godfather of supply-side economics. "The United States economy has never been in better shape," assured Laffer, who even went so far as to bet Schiff a penny that the economy wouldn't crash. "I'll bet you a lot more than a penny," Schiff retorted.
We feel similarly re: abortion and the death penalty. I'm ok with both. And that does occasionally make my fellow progressive friends uncomfortable.
i suspect there are many Dan Evans type republicans in WS.
unfortunately WS is a socialist beacon. the biggest problem with socialism is that removes the incentive for hard work and personal responsibility.
Yeah, like the socialism in Canada or France. None of them work or take any responsibility... sarcasm
TanDL - move to Canada if you think it is so great!
You're funny. "WS is a socialist beacon." If you're not a Republican then you're a socialist now? When Bush was in office it was.. if you're not a Republican then you're not patriotic.
Think up a new saying, boys. How about, if you're not a Republican then you're smarter than they are... or, if you're not a Republican then you believe in Democracy... or, if you're not a Republican then you're at least on a winning team. I'm sure you find more examples.
More "socialist" baiting from the hoopster.
Another constant in an ever-changing world.
first of all i am not either a R or a D.
That leaves F cuz you're not a C.
Or do you fancy L?
Thanks for the lovely shout out Hooper. I'm not complaining about America and I'm a patriot, so I'll not be moving to Canada. I do know Canadians and did spend time up there on a visa some years ago and guess what? They are hard working, very responsible people for the most part. You might re-define your personal definition of socialism.
i do have a libertarian streak.
i have relatives in Canada and they wanted to come to the US to escape the high taxation!
Bring them on down... we'd love to have them. Make sure they understand they'll have to purchase their own health insurance.
and health insurance costs would not be so extreme if the government stopped forcing hospitals to provide charity care for those that choose not to purchase health insurance!
give it a rest....charity care sometimes, more often than not, really helps people who have lots less than you. There are income guidelines, you know. Or do you know? I sometimes wonder if you have any effing clue as to what you're really talking about.
come on hoop
do you really believe that?
my wife works in a hospital and tells me about all the losers (drug addicts in particular) who are getting care due to there own negligence. why should taxpayers or others be forced to pay for these people?
You guys seriously need to stop responding to Hoop's comments regarding healthcare for the poor.
He's a heartless bastard. We've established that through much litigation.
Ignore his future comments on this issue. Everyone will be happier, and when he realizes that no one is listening, maybe he'll stop talking.
Then there will be a bit less heartlessness in this world. Which is what all the rest of us want.
You're reinforcing my point, Hoop.
Telling the rest of us how you shouldn't have to pay for the most vulnerable people in society by definition makes you heartless.
You care more about your own pocketbook than you do about others' wellbeing, or even in some cases, ability to live.
You are welcome to say whatever you want to me. I really don't care, won't take it personally, and you're not going to hurt my feelings.
But kicking the poor, ill, and helpless while they're down? That is truly what makes you heartless.
and many of the so called vulnerable made bad choices and i do indeed have no sympathy for them.
And others of them were both with a disability, or their families brought them into the country illegally without their consent, or they were abused as children, or have a mental illness, or have bad genetics, or they had a bad doctor that overprescribed pain meds that caused them to get hooked on a substance.
The moral of the story, Hoop? You don't know shit about them. So stop judging until you've spent a week or a month or a year walking in their shoes.
If you want to be an isolationist, go dig a hole and live in it.
If you want to live in a society with others, there are prices to pay. Ensuring that society's most vulnerable are cared for in a reasonable manner is one of those costs.
hooper...I thought your wife died...or is the post above correct? that she works in a hospital...? which one? local? I want to avoid if, if she has your temperment. I would rather go to a hospital where the people are caring, helpful, healing...not judgmental...
aha...guess there's hope for me , then - lol..
Two exceptionally rude, rule-breaking comments deleted so far in this thread. Repeated rule-breaking is considered by us to be a declaration that you have no respect for site management or your fellow forum members and therefore are no longer interested in being able to participate in discussion. - TR
I love being a Republican. A Conservative Republican. We take personal responsibility of our actions. We are charitable. We believe in Liberty and the God Given rights we inherit as humans to Life, Liberty and the PURSUIT of Happiness.
The emotional Left Wing responses hit a brick wall mostly with me.
Ben Franklin did not believe in an entitlement policy. He knew it would corrupt.
That is to say that we cannot ignore people who are less fortunate. There is a balance.
We believe in Peace Through Strength. Weaklings fall under tyranny. We don't however always agree with the Military action that has been ordered but we also support our fellow citizens who are pawns in the military and part of the government. We don't want war. We don't want conflict.
We believe in the rights of the individual. That is why we are pro-life. The unborn child has no rights. It can't speak for itself. The adult needs to take personal responsibility.
The Republican (and Christian Right) promote Christianity and the ethics/morality that this nation has grown with. We realize people are not perfect but that standards are necessary. Good standards and morality strengthen the community.
We judge people. We support Martin Luther King's statement about judging people by the content of their character and not their skin color.
Remember, just like the Democratic party is made up of a variety of coalition's, so is the Republican party. We have moderates. The Christian Right, conservatives, and a whole bunch of people who are just Republicans.
We know there needs to be laws and taxes. We also know that there are non-conformists and miscreants. Even now in Chicago, which has the most stringent gun laws in the country, 500 people have been killed by guns. Republicans know the government can build infrastructure and help a lot of people but it also has some serious limitations.
We Republicans like local and state government better than a large Federal Government. We fear a large centralized government because they take away more and more personal rights and freedom, and they take more and more taxes to feed the government. We prefer to keep more and we trust capitalism. We want regulations that are needed but we do not want excessive regulation.
If anyone really wants to know what a conservative is, read Mark Levin's book Liberty and Tyranny.
The Laffer curve works. Democrats just cannot quit spending. That is why we will possibly go over the cliff. Democrats have promised since Reagan to curb spending and have not. You cannot argue that. Clinton said the era of big government was over, and he was being pushed by the Republican led Congress. He did get a bump in tax rates but the Reagan tax cuts primed the pump for successful business growth and revenues.
It is not a perfect party by any means. A conservative is not automatically a Republican. But a conservative is NOT a Democrat.
first of all, gingrich did not cut spending, HMC. i've cited this before.
to your other point, being "just a republican," you take responsibility for the whole family, wingnuts and all. they are your brothers and sisters and by claiming party affiliation, you're all pulling the same oars.
I love being a Republican. A Conservative Republican. We take personal responsibility of our actions.
yeah, until someone hands you the bill for the unnecessary war you started. then personal responsibility flies right out the window.
how about when people tell you to disavow the NRA and the gun nuts who also give money to the republican party? and after yet another massacre in the white suburbs, insist that taxpayers cough up for armed guards instead of legislation that would take ease and anonymity out of gun sales. where's the personal responsibility there?
how about complaining about how everything in socialist america is falling apart and then having the gall to gripe about taxes? yes, true personal responsibility.
when are you going to take personal responsibility for the bankrupt ideologies of your party?
republicans use the words "personal responsibility" simply to jab at everyone who's poor enough to need government assistance. and it's painfully obvious to the rest of us that you have no idea just how poor this country is if you think that charity can fix it.
kind of like you seem to have no idea just how rich and powerful a small number of people in this country have become. here's a hint: we threw off aristocracy and monarchy about 240 years ago, and they're trying to reinstate it.
it ain't the commies you should be worried about. it's your own party.
Republican's need to get off the religious and abortion stance. It is a woman's right to have and abort a fetus if she desires to do so. Its probably a good idea anyways since most women today can't even afford to raise a kid. Making a guy pay for your kid out of wedlock is absolutely selfish. Men don't want to have kids. But they are forced into paying child support because it is ultimately the woman's decision to have the child. The man has no choice. Its whatever she decides on her own and its wrong! I'm agnostic so I don't like it when religion and politics are in the same sentence. You lose all credibilty with me when you start talking about God. Keep the bull sht religious talk out of politics. It has no business being there.
junction hero = TROLL
I resent, Rich, that you imply that those on the other side of the coin (you know, those evil Dem. libs), do not take personal responsibility for our actions, are not charitable, do not believe in Liberty and the rights of Life, Liberty, and the Pursuit of happiness.
Do not paint with a broad brush, and maybe we'd get somewhere...it's not a damned contest..." na-na-na-na-na, I do more than you do, I believe better than you do" . It's silly. Remove the labels, and what you have is people. Sit in a crowded room sometime and see whether yu can pick out the ones who take personal responsibility and those who don't, try to see who is a conservative repub, and who is on the opposite side...bet you can't. But your words sure did sound good..and that's all they were - words...
So Monatanapup.. What is a Troll? Is it one who doesn't side with the rest of the thread? Is it one who speaks its mind but you don't like its opinion's? Please tell me what a Troll really is.
Sorry for responding to a troll....but, Junction...men don't want to have kids? But they do want to have that sex, don't they? Put a sock on it, or don't do it. If you do the deed, you pay for the consequences. Oh, she tempted you, and you couldn't control yourself? Give me an effing break. Yes, men who father children out of wedlock are as guilty as the woman who has a child out of wedlock...so, keep it in your pants, and there will be no child...
Oh... and women want to have sex too? Keep it closed shut. Lordy!
Junctionhero..from the Urban Dictionary:
Urban Dictionary: troll
http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=trollShare "One who posts a deliberately provocative message to a newsgroup or message board with the intention of causing maximum disruption and argument."
Ok... Jan women are right and men should keep it in there pants all the time...Yes yes yes yes! Men are nothing but piggy piggy pigs! Listen men keep it in your pants Jan said! I absolutely agree with Jan.. She smart and I am dumb...:)
you said it, I didn't, junction...
so you're an advocate of men having sex with any number of women, getting any number of women preggers, and then abdicating responsibility for any number of children running around out there in the world. Is that what you're saying? You just want to leave that birth control thingy up to women, and it's no fault of yours if they want to have unprotected sex? Is that what you're saying? Help me to understand.
I never said men were pigs..I said...if you truly don't want children, either discuss birth control with the woman, use a condom, or don't have sex...
and I didn't say you were dumb...you did..
And that is the exact lack of personal responsibility Smitty and HMC Rich are talking about.
Redblack, you have a very valid point too in regards to the state of the county and the inability of private non profits to solve the problems of the country.
Junction hero: you are officially a tool.
There, somebody said it. You know that you were all thinking it.
you believe in personal responsibility...
but you want women to take responsibility for the consequences of decisions you think you should be able to make for them...
regardless of their age
or whether they were the victim of rape
however you define rape.
in fact, you seem to support policies that make decisions for just about every group of people that you consider to be lacking in personal responsibility...
without being willing to take on any personal responsibility for those decisions
i believe in personal responsibility
my decision.. my responsibility
your decision.. your responsibility
our decision.. our responsibility
there is nothing emotional about that
but I have to say..
i find the life liberty and pursuit of happiness argument you make highly emotional.
life liberty and happiness for whom?
under what circumstances?
because i think that is the real crux of the political divide...
you (as a republican) would decide who can and can't be granted rights based on your personal pejoratives
while i (as a democrat) think those rights should be granted to all citizens equally...
and where rights are restricted, they should be restricted equally
nothing emotional about that either.
I have to ask, why would a group of people who don't want conflict or war cling so tightly to their "god given" right to bear arms ..
especially the ever popular assault rifle?
What exactly do they think those assault rifles are manufactured to do?
You don't hunt game with them unless the game you are hunting is people...
hunting people is .. well.. antisocial at best.
condoning the right of other people to hunt people is a direct cause of conflict.
the argument that more guns makes people safer is right in line with the one that speaks of Peace from a position of strength...
You do realize that is the basic rationalization of a bully, don't you? Might makes right. I will give you peace (leave you alone) as long as you do what i want you to do when i want you to do it the way i want you to do it?
And this is supposed to be the Christian way?
I was raised Christian... and i have always been taught that Jesus threw the moneylenders out of the temple...
The Republican party has not only invited them in but asked them to write policy.
and i don't remember any talk about "balance" when Jesus advocated ministering to the poor... or any litmus test Jesus used to decide who was an wasn't worthy of his care...
I mention Jesus specifically... because the New Testament is supposed to be what makes Christians ... Christian.
show me where Jesus advocated taking from the poor to give to the rich.
Is making the poor and elderly make a choice between eating and paying the bills 3 months out of the year as the price for even negotiating on ending tax cuts for the wealthy that were never designed to be permanent in the first place your idea of balance?
If i thought that kind of balance mattered, as a Christian, it still would not be mine.
Here is the thing Rich.
I am quite frankly tired of hearing emotional arguments by Republicans who base their political beliefs on the perversion of core American values.
The problem with the way Republicans are currently interpreting American values is that they have forgotten that liberty to all means all ...
not just the chosen few.
I don't choose to speak about my faith much Rich. I share it though example.. living it...
but today .. in this season.. I am making an exception.
I am really quite ashamed of what is being promoted in the name of Christianity by a bunch of self serving political hacks...
and it's time it stopped.
Nice post, JoB. I really wish all of the people who claimed to be die-hard Republicans because of their religious beliefs would re-read the gospels.
Last time I read them, Jesus hung out with lepers and hookers, healed the sick and fought against injustice. And I am not talking about unjustly high tax rates...
In fact, I don't remember Jesus addressing tax rates or gun ownership in the gospels. Nor do I remember Jesus telling the rich that they had the right to keep all of their money to themselves.
I do remember Jesus saying something about much being expected of those to whom much was given.
I suspect Jesus would have some choice words for all of our politicians.
"Pharisee" would be one of them, and I believe would be directed at a number of Republicans who claim to do a lot of things in "his" name.
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