West Seattle Blog...

WSB Forum » West Seattle Schools

(40 posts)

What is wrong with public school?

Started 2 years ago by anatidaephobia
Latest reply from yeah-me

anatidaephobia
Member Profile

I've read through all the webpages on the Seattle school district site, and have talked to many parents. I haven't uncovered any problem with the Seattle school district. The coursework looks rigorous and varied. In fact, the public system offers more variety in terms of coursework and extracurricular activities than many private schools in this town! So I don't understand why someone would choose private ($) over public (free) in our area for comparable quality.

So could anyone tell me why people dislike this school system? What are the major complaints? I would love to hear from any parent or teacher.

Posted 2 years ago #
bfranklin4206
Member Profile

the switch from 4 period days to the stupid "rolling four" days which is straight six monday and friday but alternating four periods tuesday wensday and thursday. for example my child is a highschool student that also attends the running start program part time at the south seattle community college in the morning for the first half of the day. now because of this switch it will be virtualy impossible

Posted 2 years ago #
WSB
Member Profile

We didn't try Seattle Public Schools at the beginning because we had heard from too many "OMG stay away" types. Our mistake.

That said, after five years (2nd through 6th grades), our son is no longer in SPS. Online school (offered publicly and "free" through another district that anyone in the state can access via Washington Virtual Academy) is what's right for him right now. (This had to do with other factors, not the academics.)

And in the second-to-previous line lies my advice. You MUST look very closely, meet teachers, talk to other parents, and stay in close touch with your child/ren to find out what is right for her/him/them (and you). Sometimes it requires taking a leap of faith and finding out you didn't make the best choice, but you made the best choice you could with the information you had at the time.

The three years our son spent in a particular program at a particular school remain the best three years he's had, ever. But it took a lot of sturm und drang to find it, and to find out it was what he needed. Sorry to be so vague but I don't want to get into more specifics. If I hadn't been swayed by the "SPS sucks" crowd with whom I worked for years after arriving in Seattle - years before we even had a child! - I *might have* found it sooner. Be open to everything.

Last words of advice: Especially in elementary school, THE TEACHER/S **ARE** THE SCHOOL, for your child/ren. If you have good ones, cherish them, support them, praise them. If you don't have a good fit, be sure to offer (without being scorched-earth about it) feedback to the teacher and principal and try everything you can to find the right fit for your child.

Good luck!

Posted 2 years ago #
Cait
Member Profile

As someone who spent her entire school career in public school (and was a part of the 4 period day at West Seattle High) I loved it. I got a great education (I had to work to get into AP classes and get good grades) but it was enough to get me into Seattle University, UW, WWU and WSU with no problem. I graduated Seattle U with honors. Math was my problem subject and there was resources there if I needed them. I didn't have anyone holding my hand which is actually GREAT. I learned from my teachers what resources were out there and I USED them. I got involved, a tried my hardest and it paid off. Just like it does in both public and private school.

As for the 4 period day - it's better college prep. Case closed. It's the EXACT same structure you will find in college and it makes the transition so much easier. You will never have a 6 class, basic-knowledge work load in college. You will have 3, maybe four, classes that you need to get in depth about. If you have a problem with class size - the 4 period day is the best answer to the problem.

I actually preferred my public education to my private college education to be honest. The public school system served me well, got me prepared and excited for college and provided me great teachers and support. You just have to make sure your kids are utilizing the services that are put in front of them. Self-motivation is key... just like the real world.

Posted 2 years ago #
SpeakLoud
Member Profile

I'm wondering why you want to know?

Posted 2 years ago #
anatidaephobia
Member Profile

SpeakLoud, b/c I will have a kindergarten student next year & we have to make school choices w/ the SPS in March of next year (soon!). I've wondered if I should apply to both public and private & just see what his choices are by next fall, but in comparing the programs, I don't see a difference in the offerings. The SPS seems MUCH better than the system that I attended as a child. Like lowmanbeach, I've heard so much negativity about SPS that for a long while I thought that private was our only real option. But after speaking with a few parents and kids about their (positive) public school experiences, I'm rethinking this. I plan now to just apply for public school, unless someone replies to my post w/ really awful stories.

Thanks to all who wrote, it's helpful.

Posted 2 years ago #
anatidaephobia
Member Profile

bfranklin, the running start thing is really appealing, so it's disturbing to hear that your child is having logistical issues. I would be very upset, too.

Posted 2 years ago #
Julie
Member Profile

I suggest the wording of the question may give you less-useful answers than you might hope. Rather than looking for what's wrong with public schools, look at various schools, both public and private, and consider which might best fit your family's and your child's needs.

There are things "wrong" and things "right" with any school, public or private. The public system has both advantages and disadvantages over private schools (which are not as much of a system--again, that has pluses and minuses). But it really, truly comes down to whether you can support what's happening with your child in the school and classroom he or she is in, whether public or private.

And, while a consistent pattern of changing schools is usually not helpful to a child, you can change schools if necessary. The public and private schools actually are complementary, and many families end up using some of each as seems appropriate for their situation.

No matter what school you end up choosing, keep in mind that if your child perceives that your family is not supportive of what's happening in the classroom, he or she is likely to have difficulty, being torn between what's expected at school and what's supported at home.

P.S. No ducks looking over your shoulder on this one!

Posted 2 years ago #
PDieter
Member Profile

As JOB points out it's not the schools it's the irresponsible parents ;)

My point being you and your student are only going to get out of SPS what you both put into it. Parents need to stay involved ALL THE WAY THROUGH high school. There are some great options in Seattle but they need parents to fill the gaps and help the staff make the experience the best it can be for the kids. Too many parents just check out.

Posted 2 years ago #
Que
Member Profile

I love the Seattle Public School that my child goes to. It is a warm and encouraging environment for her to learn in and there is a huge amount of enthusiasm in our house that it is time for school to start. The most important this is that you find a school that is a good fit for your child and family.

I think that PDieter is right that the more you are involved in the school, the more that your child and you will get out of it. I think that to be true about all schools though, not just SPS. My experience is that if you are there to help out the teachers and the school, that they are there to partner with you in the education of your child. If your child sees you participating in the life of the school, they better understand that school is important and something that you value.

There are really great options within the SPS system. I would strongly encourage you to look at them. Give them a chance to get their school years rolling and then get in touch with the ones that sound interesting to you. They all have tours (most in January, but some schools will accomdate other times as well) and ways for you to check them out and get more information. Good Luck to you!

Posted 2 years ago #
Ken
Member Profile

I have come to the conclusion that teachers and administrators have to have a specific combination of talents and defects to do the job.

They can put up with the most amazing range of behavior and youthful twisted logic and decode it on the fly.

They are also nearly all incapable of some range of normal human interaction because of it. I am prejudiced perhaps because I spent several years trying to teach teachers how to use the internet and various programs and devices. A few picked it up and ran with it, but most apparently became teachers because they overcame their own learning disabilities. The have to repeat everything over and over to get it to stick and consequently are very good at teaching kids who respond well to this method. Most cannot visualize complex concepts very well if at all (though this may be a byproduct of dealing with kids for several years)

They will happily request a check for a field trip and never mention the day of the trip, the amount or the entity to write the check to.

They will reply to parents via email (sometimes)without understanding the use of the "BCC:" field.

They can misunderstand the clearest and most unambiguous of written statements persistently and stubbornly when it challenges their perceived place in the knowledge monopoly business.

This applies to both public and private schools and even to university level educators.

I support public schools and while SPS suffers from too many Chiefs and not enough Indians, as well as a mania to outsource to for profit publishers, it compares favorably with most other Metro districts around the country.

Posted 2 years ago #
ellenater
Member Profile

I really feel it's what's right for the specific child in the specific situation. We did public for awhile but when we moved to West Seattle, we went private. I think it's counter productive to make it a public versus private issue.

Posted 2 years ago #
anatidaephobia
Member Profile

Jeez, I don't want to make it this public vs. private either. I only want to discuss the SPS. I mentioned my rationale for the initial post to SpeakLoud, but don't want to direct this thread towards my personal situation. I'm seeking real perspective on the SPS, and not in comparison w/ the private system.

Since moving here 6 years ago, I've heard mostly negative comments about our school system. The "OMG stay away types", as Lowmanbeach describes. I'm just wondering why. I understand the anger directed toward the Cooper program closure, but the academics and extracurricular activities of the system seem really strong. I've recently encountered many happy public school families, too, and learned from some that they were also warned to stay away from SPS. I just want to know what the major complaints are with our district, in order to educate myself.

Posted 2 years ago #
Oliver
Member Profile

I also have a child that will start kindergarten next Fall. I spent a lot of time this past winter touring nearly every school in West Seattle. What's "wrong" with the public school system is the very apparent disparity. When you tour the public schools of West Seattle you will see two very different cities. There's a city (mostly on the north/west side) with schools that have thriving PTAs that fund enrichment programs and robust test scores. In contrast, you will also see a city at the south/east side with no or very small PTAs that are dependent are grants and have very poor test scores. (I'm not a fan of judging a school based on test scores, as I think it's more reflective of socio-economic status rather than the success of a "school." I just mention it because it is one objective measure that comes up in talking about SPS). So, we have some schools in the north cluster with great reputations and some schools in the south cluster with bad reputations.

But when I toured the schools, I concluded that the reputations aren't always deserved (good or bad) and that you really have to look at what will best work for your child. I didn't care for one of the schools with the best test scores because I didn't think it would be a good fit for my child and I saw a lot of good in some of the schools with bad test scores. The schools with low test scores seem very self-aware and have teachers who seem very passionate about their calling. I also toured many private schools and found the same to be true. There are some with some good reputations that appear well-earned, but there are also some that did not seem to provide any advantage over some of the public schools.

On top of the apparent disparity in the public schools is the fact that, as a parent, there is a level of mystique to the system and you have no idea where your child will be assigned. Under the current/historical system, you could be lucky and get assigned to a school of your choosing, or you could get assigned to a random school that you did not list on your application. I appreciate the historical reasons for the assignment process and appreciate that the district is now trying to change the assignment process to provide more predictability - BUT I feel that it is accomplishing the exact opposite.

The process is supposed to change for Fall 2010, but the district has not yet told us what the new default schools will be or when they will tell us. They also call this a "work in progress." While I appreciate the candor, most parents are not thrilled to let their child's education/social wellbeing suffer while the district works out the kinks and determines whether the latest experiment will work.

Posted 2 years ago #
cclarue
Member Profile

I have 2 kids in sps. one at denny for all of today so far so good. she attended highland park elem. not even one of the top schools in ws but she had great teachers until 4th grade and then an awesome 5th grade teacher and boy what a difference a teacher makes forget the district forget the school it is the teachers who matter esp in elem where your child spends all day with the same person. That being said the teachers and the school did a fine enough job for her to be chosen for the rainier scholars program which she had to test in for. she is in spectrum at denny and with only one day in i cant comment on that. But my younger one is still at highland park and she brought home a paper today announcing all second grade students are going to be working with the pacific northwest ballet to produce a show to be performed at mccaw hall. pnb will come to the school twice a week for 45 min to work with all second grade students!!! There are many little benefits to the sps if you are willing to give them a try. I have allways felt like the sps is even a bit ahead of highline district based on friends descriptions of coursework and such.

Posted 2 years ago #
cclarue
Member Profile

oh and at higland park we have the most wonderful multi arts teacher ever many of you know her as the stagestruck director. and as far as test scores if you are looking at those to choose a school also consider what the percentage of english language learners are our first language is english so my daughters score great on the wasl but if a kid is still learning english what are the chances of a high standardized test score?

Posted 2 years ago #
anatidaephobia
Member Profile

Wow, the NW Ballet! That's such a wonderful, enriching thing for the kids. And good point about the WASL and ESL.

Oliver, the process does seem to be flawed. In 2010, all families will supposedly be guaranteed their reference area school. Since I live in one of the less desirable areas that you have mentioned, this may not be such a good thing. But I'll meet the teachers & stay involved in the PTSA, as others have emphasized.

Posted 2 years ago #
suzanne
Member Profile

We've been very pleased with the education our kids have received in SPS. Arbor Heights was great for elementary school, and we've also been very happy at Denny. We have a child just starting at Sealth and I'm very excited about what's happening there and feel very optimistic.

Not everything is perfect, but you won't find that anywhere. When I have been unhappy with something, I make a point of speaking to the appropriate person, be it the teacher or principal or whomever, and I have generally gotten a positive response.

I do get frustrated by the negative comments people make and I believe a lot of people aren't happy unless they are complaining about something. I also think the louder voices are usually the ones complaining and the people who are content don't feel the need to be as vocal - maybe that should change.

Posted 2 years ago #
galina
Member Profile

we've taken out daughter out of SPS system and here is why: any school is only as good as your child's teacher. Book reports were lost, pointless homeworks was assigned, parents have no or very little information between conferences about child's progress. I don't want to point fingures, really, but I have countless examples. For instance - all classrooms everywhere do projects - like everybody works on some sort of a report this month - but what if you kid is done in two weeks - good question - because your kid will be kepts aside and doing busy work while the rest of the class catches up. They always tell you this will not happend - but it happened all the time with my kid. You are always told you are welcome to stop any time after class and discuss your child's progress, but whenever you stop the teacher is usually so overwhelmed that you feel guilty for taking their time. Test results not communicated to parents.
Personally I can understand the teachers also - after all it is only a job. The classrooms are over crowded and yet, the programs are rigorous enough however do all students complete all the work? Do they even get to complete the whole curriculum as a group? I don't think so! It all depends on the teacher. Every year it is a lottery. Want to play? We are just plain tired of playing this game.

Posted 1 year ago #
dawsonct
Member Profile

Well, other than the fact that a well-rounded education produces a bunch of Godless liberals.
--
Any teacher will tell you that an involved parent will always get better results. As PDieter pointed out, input will result in improved output. We can't just dump our kids in kindergarten and pull 'em out 12 years later, ready to take on the World, mature and fully developed.
--
Speaking of public education, one can no longer TRULY find a real career with only a high school education. For our Nation to regain it's lead, we should publicly fund AT LEAST two more years of education, whether vocational or academic.

Posted 1 year ago #
luckymom30
Member Profile

WSB - do you need a sponsor to do the Washington Virtual Academy? Also how was the transition going from SPS to Virtual?

I personally would like to hear about Explorer's West School vs. Denny/Sealth.

Posted 1 year ago #
JoB
Member Profile

dawsoncourt..

"a well-rounded education produces a bunch of Godless liberals"

my son agrees with that sentiment and thus homeschools his kids... but i have never understood.

i know many intelligent well educated people who think of themselves as people of faith. A well rounded education will teach you to question your beliefs... but that doesn't rule out religion.

Though.. come to think of it..
it might rule out conservative politics :)

Posted 1 year ago #
SpeakLoud
Member Profile

LuckyMom it's really not fair to pitch a private school against a public school-it's apples and bananas. You and you alone-well also your child-can make the decision about the school you attend. There are people who love and hate EVERY school!

Posted 1 year ago #
rockhills
Member Profile

...but for different reasons. I've seen terrible private schools and wonderful public schools, and vice versa. I also attended both public and private (church-affiliated) schools while growing up, depending on where we lived and what the best options were. I think I received a pretty good education overall. It really boils down to what the best fit is for you and your family. Either way, parents need to be involved, both morally and academically.

Posted 1 year ago #
luckymom30
Member Profile

Wow! All I asked was for comments on Explorers West and Denny/Sealth, geez! What is so wrong about weighing your options. I am very aware that parents need to be an active, proactive and a real advocate for their child. Every school isn't right for every child, you must make your decision carefully.

Again, some information on at Denny/Sealth and Explorers West would prove to be helpful.

Posted 1 year ago #
Heinz57Mom
Member Profile

I've two six year olds (virtual twins). One 'normally' developed and one hard of hearing.

For my 'normal' child SPS is fine, for my HoH child they sukrox! If your children have no special needs you'll be fine in the public school system, but Lord help you if you have a child with ANY sort of special need and you Choose to advocate for them rather than blindly follow the advice of the school district.

This complaint is not isolated to me. I've a friend with a child who has verbal apraxia (can't speak) but the school district is refusing to recognize the need to use her communciation device. I HATE HATE HATE the Seattle School district.

My normal child attends public school and I'm sending my special needs child to a very expensive private school to get the basic services that the school district wasn't providing him for the last two years.

Posted 1 year ago #
seattle mom
Member Profile

I have been hearing good things about Sealth. We've been to several IB open houses in the past year and this week went on a school tour. It seems like a good community overall with strong academics with IB which would be a good fit for my kid. Liked the principal and the 9th grade counselor. Heard that orchestra is expanding next year which is also a big plus for us. Negatives are bad bus connections if you are trying to get to Sealth from SE Seattle. Sorry, don't know a darn thing about Denny.

Posted 1 year ago #
Bonnie
Member Profile

Heinz57 I have a special needs child too and I have been very happy with the school district.

Posted 1 year ago #
SpeakLoud
Member Profile

So asking for information about individual schools is different (in my mind) to saying this school 'vs' that school-it sounds like you are pitting them against each ohter-that's all I was syaing.
My daughter is at Explorer West-we/she loves it. Small, rigerous, diverse, well rounded, art, drama, music, latin, expensive but not compared to other Seattle area private middle schools.

Posted 1 year ago #
luckymom30
Member Profile

I was not "pitting" one school against another school. When thinking of schools I tend to think this school vs. this school.

Our daughter was fortunate to attend a carnival setup by the students of Explorer West afew years ago, it is a sister school to her current school. I was very impressed on the creativity of the students in designing the games and activities the students at her school would play while at Explorer West.

Now if I could hear from a parnt or two from Denny that would be great!

Posted 1 year ago #
WSM
Member Profile

I don't get it either - all the SPS haters. I have friends with kids in Mill Creek and Renton - aren't they all the same overall? They all pretty much pay for K5 now I think and to hear from someone "I would NEVER pay for SPS education" Well, I question why this parent just doesn't send their child to private school then.

Posted 1 year ago #
Bonnie
Member Profile

I have a few friends who are public school teachers for SPS. A kindy teacher at Roxhill and an 8th grade teacher at Denny. Both are the most awesome teachers I know. Wish my kids had them as teachers. SPS has some great teachers. My son's special ed teacher at Arbor Heights is pretty fantastic too, as is my daughter's kindy teacher at AH.

Posted 1 year ago #
luckymom30
Member Profile

Thanks! We have awesome teachers and staff at Roxhill and I too have a friend who is a teacher at Arbor Heights and Pathfinder, all great schools. I have not had any problems with SPS.

Posted 1 year ago #
WSM
Member Profile

I guess the more people who move out to the 'burbs or put their kid in private school open up more time for all the great SPS teachers to spend with my kids! :)

Posted 1 year ago #
jellyfish
Member Profile

The quality of teachers is not the issue, since teachers in all school districts receive their degrees from universities & certification from the state. The school district has nothing to do with this. There are highly effective & professional teachers in all districts.

The problems w/ the SPS seem to be due to administration, funding cuts, and bureaucracy. Some schools have way more resources than others, causing a natural inequity. And how can this be solved? The school district is huge, but finances are limited. Thus, parents often raise funds to pay for an extra teacher, before/after school, and extra programs. More money, better education. Period.

As for disabilities -- I've heard that the district can handle autism, but has a difficult time meeting the needs of other types of disabilities (such as apraxia). This must be incredibly frustrating for parents.

Posted 1 year ago #
WSAC
Member Profile

What's right with private school?

Posted 1 year ago #
SpeakLoud
Member Profile

Do you seriously want an answer to that? And if so why?

Posted 1 year ago #
Heinz57Mom
Member Profile

Well said Jellyfish.

Posted 1 year ago #
JoB
Member Profile

because you can build on success...

Posted 1 year ago #
yeah-me
Member Profile

anatidaephobia, I am curious..what did you choose? Public or private? And which school...if you dare say?

Posted 1 year ago #