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"What happened to Obama?"

Started 9 months ago by MBarrettMiller
Latest reply from Jiggers

MBarrettMiller
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Read, "What happened to Obama?" We need to help if we want different results. see http://tinyurl.com/45ycf5b
Comments?

Posted 9 months ago #
JoB
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I so tried to read all of this...
but i fear the professor missed the boat.
we need a lot more than speeches...

inspiration without corresponding action discourages instead of encourages

The over-inflated expectations of Obama and the reality were never a healthy combination.

the Obama we got is exactly the guy he was in the Senate.. and that wasn't a good thing:(

Posted 9 months ago #
Jiggers
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He's just a puppet on a string for his buddies don't you know...

Posted 9 months ago #
DP
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I have much affection and respect for President Obama, even though I have been critical of him in the past. After all, he inherited an economy that was tanking, even as he was handed the job of winding down two unpopular and costly wars. At the same time he's been the target of an unprecedented villification campaign, as dobro and others have pointed out.

Mr. Obama has had more on his plate than any President since Franklin Roosevelt, but he's had less money and political credit to work with than any President since Herbert Hoover. So, in spite of his shortcomings, I've decided to cut him some slack.

Obama probably won't be remembered as one of the Presidents who changed the Nation. But maybe he will be remembered as one of those who saved it.

A guy could do worse.

Posted 9 months ago #
KBear
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Nothing happened to Obama. He's doing the best he can. What happened to his supporters? They've deserted him.

Posted 9 months ago #
365Stairs
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He's a little more grey around the top (it happens naturally...but probably a little pre-mature given his job) and he apparently quit smoking (good!).

DP - just pokin' fun...not sure if you intentially went from "President" to "Mr." to just Obama in your post...

but..."at the end of the day" (if your playing office lingo bingo...1 pt.)...I respect the public person the president still is. He had lofty goals in his campaign that captivated America and unfortunately ran into a buzz-saw of road blocks that diminished the capacity to focus on those goals...he has remained a true professional despite the numerous talking head & R/TP attacks, lowered approval ratings, and miscues of his cabinet.

His approval rating is about 48 right now...which doesn't mean a hill of beans (there is a job to do regardless of who likes him or not) but is much better than Congress (the almighty ones), or the TP (the wishers).

Will I vote for him again? 50/50...got a while yet.

Posted 9 months ago #
metrognome
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think you're unhappy now? Imagine how you'd feel if McCain / Palin had been elected. Sarah would have John in a nursing home by now and we'd be invading China.

Keep in mind that the tighty righties have declared all out war on this president (don't believe it ... look at the language they are using) and nothing less than his total defeat is acceptable, no matter the cost to the country. Considering what he inherited from Dubya (who has completely disappeared from public view ...) and considering the R's behavior, and considering that he has received multiple times more death threats than any other 5 presidents (can't be because he's, you know, Hawaiian), he's done okay. Just wish he would have given up on getting the Rs to cooperate earlier and just kicked their azzez when he had the clout.

Posted 9 months ago #
charlabob
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If we live in the rear view mirror, we'll die by the rear view mirror. What happened TO Obama? Really doesn't matter -- what happened, by design, to the United States at the hands of those who profit from debacles? Play Go, not checkers.

Hint: World wide economy; based on the reality of the oligarchs everywhere in the world.

Posted 9 months ago #
MBarrettMiller
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Perhaps we need to re-define who we are and what we want as a nation.
If it truly is all about money our run may be ending sooner than we thought.
A brief run through the history books shows what happens to societies that are shallow and self absorbed...
We could actually be that country that people want to come to but we need to realize we are not #1 on any world scale other than our military potential-even that hasnt done much in Afghanistan. Keep in mind we were attacked in '41, trained our military and declared victory in '45. If the Afghans etc. are not prepared to fight for their own destiny_____________'em! Not worth one yank getting hurt...

Posted 9 months ago #
Jiggers
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What happened to our politicians? just not Obama. It's easy to blame him, he's the scapegoat for both parties. The blame/pointing the finger game has got old.

Posted 9 months ago #
kootchman
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I hope he follows "Dubyas" example...and just disappears. The "run" didn't last very long if it is at an end. I do so love the work ethic of Congress. This President fills out a suit. The Republicans pretty much took his measure..he doesn't lead, and doesn't have the courage of conviction. His speech yesterday typifies his presidency.. vacuous speech of no substance and then off to two fund raisers. Politico overdrive. metro.. We didn't vote for John McCain for President. When Obama met his true masters..any pretense at being the President of all the people went out the window. The victory was so overwhelming...concession was in the air. House and Senate Democrats read it wrong..very wrong. I was reading the Simpson Bowles Commission report ... interesting. He had the cover of a bi-partisan report.. a humbled Republican Party. All of you on the fringe left..center, and right... I suggest you read the report.. or at least the preamble. We won't have to wait until the 'Super Super Super Duper" commission convenes in .. 5 months..you all feel like waiting another 5 months? .. another year delay ...? At least Nero fiddled and provided some backround music while the decadent burned. Take the report off the shelf.. call Congress back in session... tell them this is the plan.. pass it. Show some balls Mr. Prez...you wanted the report..you got it.. and outside of your special interest lobby.. it actually received a great deal of support.. Your fringe didn't like it... but neither did the far right fringe... RR knew that...and largely ignored both. We know Bachman is the right side version of Pelosi... any vaguely looking centrist is going to drub the dude-in chief...I hope we find one.

http://www.fiscalcommission.gov/sites/fiscalcommission.gov/files/documents/TheMomentofTruth12_1_2010.pdf

Posted 9 months ago #
kootchman
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Bet it passes..

Posted 9 months ago #
MBarrettMiller
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Disapointment is creeping into my usually hopeful bones. What scares me is that so many want a "strong man" rather than one who is appelaing to the best in us...yeah, I know-don't beat me up!!!!
Having lived in a number of places where I could vanish at the whim of the state police or misdefinition of the leaders thoughts I am real reluctant to wish for any "strong men" type leaders. Too many of those types have left piles of bones and broken dreams behind them.
Keep the faith-I'm hanging on by my fingernais-

Posted 9 months ago #
metrognome
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I truly think the best form of government is a benevolent dictatorship. The problem with democracies these days is that a functioning democratic government requires active participation by the citizens on an on-going basis, something that started disappearing in this country 50 years ago with the advent of televised debates and political ads and which has worsened with all-mail voting.

I will take a strong leader who has the long-term interests of the country and its people over a corporate sell-out or a wishy-washy leader any day (for those of you who have been in Seattle for a while, Paul Schell was a prototype 'make every one happy' wishy-washy leader; Greg Nickles was often referred to as a 'strong mayor' who took back the power the City Council had taken from the mayor's office during Norm Rice's and Paul Schell's tenures and brought leadership back to the Executive function.) I think Obama has yet to show this kind of strength, so he is losing too many battles with the Legislative branch.

Posted 9 months ago #
redblack
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metrognome: first they came for the labor leaders...

Posted 9 months ago #
metrognome
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redblack -- have no idea what you mean. Please elucidate or elaborate or hallucinate.

Posted 9 months ago #
redblack
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mg: it's an old quote about creeping authoritarianism and the german government taking away people who didn't stand up to "benevolent dictatorships."

Posted 9 months ago #
MBarrettMiller
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I use to have students memorize and re-write their versions of the following.
Dictators tend to start out thinking/believeing they are on the right track. Usually ends badly-

Niemöller (1892-1984) was an ardent nationalist and prominent Protestant pastor who emerged as an outspoken public foe of Adolf Hitler and spent the last 7 years of Nazi rule in concentration camps.
Niemöller is perhaps best remembered for the quotation:

First they came for the Socialists, and I did not speak out --
Because I was not a Socialist.
Then they came for the Trade Unionists, and I did not speak out --
Because I was not a Trade Unionist.
Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out --
Because I was not a Jew.
Then they came for me -- and there was no one left to speak for me.

The quotation stems from Niemöller's lectures during the early postwar period. Different versions of the quotation exist. These can be attributed to the fact that Niemöller spoke extemporaneously and in a number of settings. Much controversy surrounds the content of the poem as it has been printed in varying forms, referring to alternating groups such as Catholics, Jehovah's Witnesses, Jews, Trade Unionists or Communists depending upon the version. Nonetheless his point was that Germans -- in particular, he believed, the leaders of the Protestant churches -- had been complicit through their silence in the Nazi imprisonment, persecution, and murder of millions of people.

Posted 9 months ago #
redblack
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MBM: many thanks. i was quoting from fuzzy memory at the end of a long day.

Posted 9 months ago #
JoB
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Whoa Nelly...

Why are we buying this FAUX news Obama is a weak leader crap?

You can't lead troops that are looking for a way to put a bullet in your back.
Friendly fire isn't so friendly to the fella in the rifle sites.

Posted 9 months ago #
JoB
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metrognome...

benevolent dictator?

oxymoron

Posted 9 months ago #
metrognome
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better a benevolent dictator than the oxymorons who voted for Bush ... twice.

and better that than feeling as if I am required to walk in lockstep with the president I voted for even tho I think he has made mistakes.

Posted 9 months ago #
metrognome
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redblack -- not sure what I said in post 14 that led you to imply that I'm a Nazi in post 15, but at least man up and say it. The unions became part of the political problem in this country when they decided to become political powerhouses instead of unions. Unions no longer exist to serve the needs of their members, they exist to create enough power so that they will continue to exist. And yes, I have been a member of a union. I don't see them as being very different than religious organizations that have become political powerhouses. They may be on different sides of the fence but they can be just as destructive in their thirst for power.

Posted 9 months ago #
JoB
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metrognome...

i don't feel i am required to walk lockstep with the president i voted for simply because i voted for him
but unlike you.. i don't think he has made so many mistakes... i suspect he has gotten exactly what he asked for
and that makes it even harder.

i will vote for him again because the alternatives are much worse..

but his policies do not make me a happy camper.

i have already started working towards the presidential election after this one.
4 more years of a democrat give us a chance at a progressive.
especially if we back progressive candidates and progressive legislation in the meantime.

the democratic party might not be all for Kucinich finding a home in Washington.. but I am.
and i am not alone.

Posted 9 months ago #
MBarrettMiller
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Though I am hoping Obama will do a mini rant some day I know he won't-
I want his rational, calm, collected, open and generous approach to how to deal with our challenges. Sure, i want some things he doesnt seem to support but I can sit here and write this-many around the world cannot!!!
I cannot imagine that Americans will collectively lose their minds and bring in any of the Republican candidates now on parade.
I say that having lived in countries where the only thing you could safely talk about was the weather and sports. We were always wondering what they really thought behind the lock step quotes of their particular leader….When the people rose up and chased out or killed the leaders we learned what they really thought-we do not want to go down that road as it is a long miserable journey back to civilization. Flick on the telly ch#9 at 5:30 to watch the BBC and see their presentation of the news. Listen to radio from around the world via Wunder radio on your smart whatever to hear stories other than the ones that dominate our narrow self-absorbed view of our place in the world. Keep in mind we are solidly holding down position #39 in the world on all measurements of a sane place to live, education, military role, health care, child care, on and on…..

Posted 9 months ago #
redblack
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metrognome: i didn't call you a nazi, nor would i ever. i beg your pardon.

read the quote from MBM's post 18 carefully. it's about the gradual erosion of civil rights under authoritarianism when people choose to be silent or do nothing.

the thing about benevolent dictators is that they can be overthrown and replaced by malevolent dictators.

and unions became political powerhouses in response to corporations and wealthy people buying government for themselves. when the very people you elect try to remove the rules that allow you to collectively bargain for good wages, benefits, and working conditions, you need to hit them where they live: at the ballot box. unions have the ability to reach working people - union and non-union alike - and show them who is fighting for their rights.

and let's not forget that as recently as 90 years ago, american children were working in factories, mills, and mines. unions put a stop to that.

Posted 9 months ago #
kootchman
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Well JoB ... that friendly fire in the back analogy?...how about a leader of charisma, bravery, skill, and competency and true care and concern for the welfare of his men (and women)...they get followed...in fact, are protected. Wishy washy, arrogant, ass kissing, concerned about their next promotion...officers? Now THEY have something to worry about.

Posted 9 months ago #
kootchman
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Here is a brave leader... " I know we have problems. No solution will satisfy everyone. Therefore, I asked for a bi-partisan committee, co-chaired by two esteemed men. I charged them to spend as much time as needed, granted them access and resources to all the organs of this government, to provide a non-partisan program to restore this country to health and prosperity." I have received that report. I am going to charge my party, of which I am the titular head, to being it forth on the floor of the US House of Representatives and proceed forward to restore faith and hope and create durable, meaningful jobs for all Americans."

Posted 9 months ago #
kootchman
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We got... Ohhhh Nancy doesn't like it... we have a super duper opportunity here to pass every piece of pork we ever dreamed of...we have no jobs..but, what the heck let's pass national healtcare as the dream..do it behind closed doors...add over 1200 porkie pie riders, ... forget jobs...we have constituents..special interest constituents... screw the Republicans..who needs em'? Shovel ready Jobs? Hell no.. we have the NEA, AFSCME, UAW to pay off first...surely we can't ask them to tighten the belt buckle along with the suffering taxpayers? Not even for a couple of years..Throw a few trillion at Wall Street..because we let Freddy and Fanne secured home loans and the mortgage loans bring us to collapse.. Let's spend the first two years pretending we are the "annointed by Chomsky" heirs to divine deficits and spending... jobs? Who needs jobs..and the list goes on and on an on.. He didn't lead.. he kow towed... to the special interests of his left wing. He raised the middle finger to participatory democracy..... he was literally bitch slapped by Pelosi into the lawn chairs of the Rose Garden.. He had it all... huge approval ratings, a hopeful population, both houses of Congress, a large republican crossover vote, all the swing independents,..and even the hope that FINALLY a black president could lead us all and affirm that we had the ultimate symbol of triumph over a racist past... and he wimped out.... he "Didn't Do the Right Thing"... he is a wimp.

Posted 9 months ago #
kootchman
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He's a bleeder...and the sharks have the scent. Maybe after the feeding frenzy ... Romney is a wish washy too... but I will trade the older wishey washy for a new one... on the outside chance.. he might do better... great choices a proven wimp? or a suspected wimp-in -the -wings....

Posted 9 months ago #
redblack
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funny. obama still beats "generic republican" in polls.

and he's waaaay more popular than the republican house of reps right now.

i think you're just projecting, kootch.

Posted 9 months ago #
kootchman
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in your world he is...we have yet to see the torrents of campaign cash...and independents...they are better educated, they see cause and effect...and they want change... no one wants more of the same...the problem with Obama is... he now has a record. A poll is one thing.. who goes into the voting booth is another... I will take anger and frustration over... "he's ok", better than the options" to get out the vote...

Posted 9 months ago #
redblack
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kootch: take your party back.

how about buddy roemer?

"We must stop exporting American jobs overseas, start protecting our best jobs now and begin creating new jobs right here at home. I have called for an end to unfair trade practices that are hurting workers and destroying local communities across our nation. China exports cheap products around the world made with a complete disregard for acceptable labor and environmental standards while we export good, quality manufacturing jobs abroad."

i don't agree with him on the ACA, but he makes sense on a lot of other issues. at least he's not one of those "free" trade clowns and has some sense of pride in his country's abilities.

he's left of obama on trade agreements.

it's kind of funny. i first heard of that guy on thom hartmann's radio show, and i almost don't care what party the person who wants to implement some protectionism adheres to.

i could get behind ron paul's "no empire" message - if i didn't think he truly believes that government hegemony is bad, but corporate hegemony is okay. well, that and the kooky anti-abortion thing.

Posted 9 months ago #
kootchman
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Would you want to run on his record?

Posted 9 months ago #
redblack
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obama's? sure. he's accomplished a lot of minor victories for average people.

republicans and the media, however, have turned him into the scary black man who wants to take away your over-priced private health insurance.

i mean, if you seriously blame obama for tanking the economy, you haven't been paying attention. he really wants to raise revenues - and he might be willing to cut some spending to get them - but he's fighting entrenched and unreasonable republicans. and a lot of money.

i'll ask again: what taxes has he raised? (even though congress does the taxing...)

want to talk about borrowing $500 billion from medicare to get ACA started?

Posted 9 months ago #
Jiggers
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hey kootch..try and consalidate all your thoughts onto one post instead of posting five times in a row. There is an edit feature that gives you several hours to add or delete.

Posted 9 months ago #
kootchman
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again redblack... he had it... we paid for it... maybe some of you on the left should actually read it... Simpson Bowles...

Konw what? The abortion thing as you call it...it's not going to be a deciding issue... gay rights? Not... those are social justice issues, and they are settled in the hearts and minds... Defense of Marriage Act... stooopid ... but it didn't change my conservative disposition...if we have to have em in the tent.. well... a pitbull in the circus... but not the main show. I can tolerate it..and not like it.

Posted 9 months ago #
redblack
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if i was obama, i'd put my foot right up john boehner's and mitch mcconnel's butts. on the evening news. in prime time. i'd be telling those crackers, "this b.s. stops now. we are going to raise taxes on your campaign donors and their lobbyists. we are going to lift the cap on FICA taxes. we are not going to cut social security or medicare."

then i'd ask them coolly and calmly, "now. do you have any other stupid questions?"

his poll numbers would soar.

Posted 9 months ago #
kootchman
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redblack.. we are Wayyyyypast minor victories to trot out to our base... that's the problem..we have symbolism and a 9.1 unemployment rate... see the headlines yesterday re" WA state... ANOTHER 1.7 billion round of cuts... funny how when people are unemployed...they stop spending. Now where do you suppose that across the board 10% cut will come from?

Posted 9 months ago #
kootchman
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I like doing it my way... are their some special rules I can't?

Posted 9 months ago #
redblack
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Now where do you suppose that across the board 10% cut will come from?

well, god forbid we ask a little more of boeing, starbucks, or microsoft.

Posted 9 months ago #
kootchman
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One he won't do it... two he no longer has the majority to do it. Three we have an overspending problem... that is how most of America sees it... you are going to get the chance to raise taxes..ONLY after Americans feel they can trust the Federal Government to spend wisely, carefully.. it is the Simpson Bowles report... they agreed... eliminate loopholes (appearance of "fairness" and increased revenues" but there is lots of red meat in their for conservatives too... too much duplication, too much waste fraud and abuse, too much regulation... it's a "compromise" document...underpinned with principal. Get some cajones Mr. Prez,,, ginning up "tough talk" speech with no actions? We have seen two years of that... don't forget to blame Bush too...

Posted 9 months ago #
kootchman
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PS... the networks think he is such a buffon...they won't even carry him in prime time anymore.. so much for the "power" of the oval office... he has trotted out to lecture us with so much fluffernutter so often the White House has been told.. no more prime time.

Posted 9 months ago #
redblack
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can you give me a concrete example of some regulation that obama or democrats have enacted that constricts or otherwise hampers business growth? specifically small business, if you please, since they employ over 2/3 of our work force.

Posted 9 months ago #
redblack
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LOL about the prime time. he got it three weeks ago, and boehner - who isn't usually afforded that privilege as speaker - got rebuttal time afterwards.

you better reread the rules and regs regarding the white house and media before you come tracking glenn beck's latest turd through here. at least wipe your feet first.

Posted 9 months ago #
kootchman
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redblack... WA state raises money by sales tax.. " a little more" means YOU ... a higher tax rate... perfect solution..and even the most right wing zealot KNOWS...sales tax increases fall hardest on the poor... you are going to lose your membership to the Liberal Club you keep talking like that. Sales taxes are the most regressive... course... you could raise the B & O tax right? You might get some day labor work out of it... loading the files into the moving trucks as Boeing shifts more work to SC, or Starbucks heads for Charlotte NC.... how about we just add a 10% wage surcharge to union scale labor on government jobs?

Posted 9 months ago #
kootchman
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Better yet... let's suspend all that highway work .... and eliminate prevailing wages... WOW... that would solve the problem in a second... tell the GC tunnel crew...or Seawall GC..we want you to readjust your bids to reflect the cost savings of having non-union labor?

Posted 9 months ago #
redblack
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sure, those companies could leave the state. but it shows you just how loyal they are to the hand that feeds them, doesn't it? they get tax breaks, low water rates, low electric rates, and on and on and on. when we won't lower the cost of labor, they leave the state. boo freaking hoo.

you asked me why i'm so business-hostile.

i'll ask you why everything our government does has to benefit business in some way before it can benefit ordinary people. especially poor people.

then there's this: what would you cut from the state's budget? come on. be specific. you have this notion that we're spending too much and we can't raise taxes on anyone. so whose ox gets gored first?

no more platitudes. no more liberal-bashing. tell me what gets cut.

Posted 9 months ago #
kootchman
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First set of cuts? The compensation packages of State Workers...and decertification of any collective bargaining of government workers.

Posted 9 months ago #
kootchman
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Don't watch Glenn Beck .. sorry. Too long on bombast for my tastes. Prez got it three weeks ago... how many times has he been on the tube since? half a dozen or more.. C'mon Even Peggy Noonan has called him out on his pointless, moralizing podium presentations...

I know why you are business hostile. I think it is a great thing.. that give and take sorta thing. You just explained to me how all those wonderful pension/benefit plans are for YOU... and then pilloried any business owner for looking for their own set of protections...for THEM.

Those companies you cited... except Boeing.. are intellectual companies.. what makes them valuable is the ideas and plans ... the people. The are not capital equipment intensive. Ya think drinking water costs that much more in NC? Or the office lights? The will still be selling coffee here...paying the sales taxes.. what will be gone? About 1400 jobs.. high paying jobs.

We know why Boeing is leaving... their "Loyal" workers bend them over every single time they have orders to fill...what was it .. 3 strikes in 5 years? Think Boeing stockholders and management felt all the love and loyalty? By your reasoning... they received high paying, great pension, great working condition jobs.. they should have never walked out... right?

On Thursday, Jayleen Roman, a younger machinist on the 787 program, began a 10-day Hawaiian vacation with her parents. Her dad is a 28-year veteran machinist. They had long planned and saved for both the vacation and the strike.. Welcome to South Carolina.

Posted 9 months ago #

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