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October 26, 2012 at 1:23 pm #605331
kootchmanMemberOh my god! Hysteria, hysteria the states want valid voter ID.. and the gnashing of teeth, the renting of garments… yet, … not a whisper from the left… and from the old left coast, they send confirmation that yes, voter fraud is still a left wing thing….
Where is the outrage now?
TALLAHASSEE, Fla. — Official-looking but bogus letters — all sent from Seattle — are telling mostly Republican voters In Florida that their citizenship is in question.
They tell voters that information received from the state Division of Elections indicates their citizenship is in question and that they’ll be removed from the rolls unless they can prove their citizenship within 15 days.
The letters also warn in bold type that noncitizens who cast ballots “may be subject to arrest, imprisonment, and/or other criminal sanctions.”
See why valid voter ID’s are important!!?? Good try… but republicans, well, they are a little smarter I suspect… they know what day elections are, and if they are valid citizens… way to energize the GOP !!!! Thanks!
October 26, 2012 at 1:54 pm #775145
miwsParticipantOctober 26, 2012 at 2:31 pm #775146
waynsterParticipantStrange when a teapublican win its ok when a democrat wins its voter fraud……
October 26, 2012 at 3:36 pm #775147
kootchmanMemberYou been mailing letter to Florida waynster? Like I said… sanctity of the vote… protect it. Valid voter ID for everyone. I don’t support voter fraud… or the deafening silence of hypocrisy from the left. If this was sent to a Philadelphia, Cleveland mailing from a Texas address… the drumbeats would be non-stop,
October 26, 2012 at 4:04 pm #775148
DBPMemberWouldn’t be a-tall surprised if those letters were traced to a certain crankypants right here in West Seattle, but not the waynster.
[Hint: Starts with “k”]
This whole thing looks like a stunt to me. “Intimidating Republicans in Florida” ~ Ha! Can’t you just see it?
[ding-dong . . . ]
Jeeves, who was that at the door?
–It was the postman, madame.
The postman? Good heavens! He knows we don’t receive guests at this hour.
–No, madame. He had a letter for you. Shall I read it for you?
Yes. Do.
–It says you are not allowed to vote, madame.
I say! Not allowed to vote? Why, the cheek! Jeeves!
–Yes, madame.
Put a call in to City Hall and have that man sacked. Immediately.
–Yes, madame.
October 26, 2012 at 5:36 pm #775149
JoBParticipantkootch..
Question 1…so who is sending these letters?
Question 2 … how do these letters prove the need for voter ID? presumably, if they were believed the recipients would not show up at the polls at all so their identification would be moot.
Question 3.. why are you not holding the recipients of these letters responsible for their response to letters with a Seattle postmark?
You hold victims of financial fraud responsible for not knowing what they signed.
What bothers me most about your post is that you only think this is a bad thing because the letters targeted Republicans. Voter intimidation and misinformation is perfectly ok with you as long as it targets Democrats. I wonder, how does it feel to think the shoe is on the other foot?
Don’t get me wrong kootch.
You will have to forgive me for not catching this little nugget before you, but I am as outraged by these letters as i have been by similar reports targeting probable democratic voters.
The difference is that i am outraged by all attempts at limiting the votes from any voters.
As it turns out, about half of my facebook list is republican. I have encouraged every person on my list to vote… not just those who agree with me.
protecting the vote means protecting it for everyone kootch.. not just for those you think will give you a better outcome.
October 26, 2012 at 5:54 pm #775150
miwsParticipantI was thinking the same thing, DPB, when I first read this thread earlier this morning.
And just now, when I read his response to waynster, I was gonna ask him, (k) if he had been mailing letter to Florida, as sort of a curve ball…
Mike
October 26, 2012 at 11:37 pm #775151
waynsterParticipantnot the waynster……..not the waynster…….! Kootch you promised not to tell golly gee wiz…now the secrets out dang it all……intimidating republican voters such a bully I am…..not……lmfao!!!!!!….I don’t know who did it but its funny as all hell when the shoe is on the other foot…
October 27, 2012 at 12:24 am #775152
JoBParticipantthe shoe may not be on the other foot after all.
So far they know about 100 letters.. that reached Republicans, Democrats and Independents..
kootch.. you forgot to mention that little fact.
i got that news from outraged liberal news sources…
October 27, 2012 at 4:01 am #775153
kootchmanMemberWell of course you got that… The phony letters have been reported in 23 counties so far in an apparent attempt to intimidate voters, Department of State spokesman Chris Cate said Tuesday. 23 counties? 4 per county? Ed or Rachel? Like I said.. I don’t think it rocked the republican world… but ain’t it ironic? Guess when the shoe is on the republican foot… it will be funny as hell to me. I will guffaw too. Cause JoB.. they got the letters.. nothing happened. And.. it was illegal. Being stupid at a contract signing is not illegal is it?
October 27, 2012 at 4:35 pm #775154
JoBParticipantkootch…
” Being stupid at a contract signing is not illegal is it?”
No.. but the misrepresentations that cause people to sign toxic contracts are… just like the letters.
October 28, 2012 at 2:38 pm #775155
c@lbobMemberThe phony letter is only slightly more odious than the real letters at least one Florida Election Supervisor sends out.
http://www.nbc-2.com/story/19882600/collier-county
Here are the differences:
1) The verbiage on the timeline is altered (thirty days vs fifteen days), and the penalty shifts from just removal from voting rolls to criminal proceedings.
2) The contact information shifts from a specific person at the supervisor’s office (Mr. Vigil) to a generic contact reference.
3) The supervisor signs her letters – the phonies are unsigned. The enclosure information is also altered to remove the reference to the envelope.
So, in Florida it is OK to disenfranchise voters who pop up on the DMV database as potential non-citizens. Florida elections official seem overjoyed at targeting certain registered voters – remember the Willie Johnsons who were challenged as potential felons in 2000?
It is bad, however, for some wag to target people who show up on lists of registered voters by political party.
I think the outrage is less about the content of the letter and more about the background of the recipients.
Washington elections officials don’t waste scarce tax dollars targeting voters, I’m happy to say. I hope they never do.
October 28, 2012 at 6:08 pm #775156
oddrealityParticipantWe don’t have to show voter ID here. Just fill out the ballot sent in the mail. Why should it be mandatory other places? You have to show ID when you register. That was enough here it should be enough everywhere.No one asks me for ID when I vote..do they ask you??
October 28, 2012 at 7:04 pm #775157
JoBParticipantvoter ID laws are designed to make it more difficult to vote for anyone who might have difficulty purchasing their state picture ID.
Specifically:
those who are elderly, no longer drive and whose original records may have been lost or destroyed.
anyone whose original records have been lost or destroyed for any reason has to go to court to get their documents certified..
a lengthy and costly process that may not result in the required paperwork for a picture ID.
those who had valid picture IDs that have been stolen..
especially if the original picture IDs were from another state..
those who are the victims of identity theft
women.. it is much more difficult for a woman who many have been married and divorced to produce certified copies of every name change she may have gone through
taking back the name on your birth certificate does not eliminate that necessity..
it simply adds another piece of paper to the paper trail:(
Now i wonder why anyone would want to deny any American citizen the right to vote when the real incidence of voter fraud..
voting on someone else’s registration or on an illegal registration
is so very small.
Is it more than a coincidence that those states that kootch refers to wanting new voter ID laws have Republican majority state legislatures and governors?
Could it be that making it more difficult for some people to vote eliminates votes that are more likely to vote democratic than republican?
I’ll let you be the judge.
October 28, 2012 at 9:01 pm #775158
J242ParticipantWow, it would appear that kootchman is really off the rails trying as hard as possible to find something, anything really, to be able to use to point the proverbial finger at the party responsible for the wonderful way of life we have here in the PacNW.
Kootch, I have an idea for you since you seem to hate everything the “left” or “Dems” stand for, why not move to a place where free-capitol is king? You know, a place where social programs are 100% privately funded and willy0nilly things like human rights are dealt with by the populace ONLY and the government is left to deal with issues pertaining only to national security? Does that sound excellent to you? There is just such a place, it’s called mainland China.
The PI article you linked to gives no accountability for anyone in Seattle who might have sent the letters, it only mentions that Seattle was listed as the place of origin. Hmmm, I could’ve sworn I read earlier in another post a while back where you were complaining about anchor babies or something but no specifics come to mind. It’s hard to keep track with your incessant “bitching & moaning” over things that you obviously have little to no firm grasp on. I must ask, what formal education (if any) do you actually possess in matters of government procedures, taxation, infrastructure development, human rights, private development or pretty much anything else that ACTUALLY effects us as citizens other than your rocking-chair political opinions? I’m curious because there seems to be a lot of smoke but no fire with you and I find it highly suspect. Most likely you’re just yet another worthless knee-jerk reactionary who contributes infinitely less to society than you reap from it.
Regardless, I really wonder why you continue living here in this wonderful little slice of America we’ve made for ourselves. You certainly don’t seem to appreciate all of the good things we do for our fellow citizens so why stay then? There doesn’t seem to be any campaign pleading for you to.
October 28, 2012 at 9:10 pm #775159
J242ParticipantOh and Kootch, before I forget, you seem to have not read this little nugget in the article you linked to:
“Secretary of State Kenneth Detzner sent a message Monday to all 67 supervisors of elections urging them to report the discovery of such letters to his assistant general counsel. Detzner also noted that voter intimidation is a felony punishable by up to five years in prison and a $5,000 fine.”
Remember, Seattle is also home to such “lovely” groups as the Discovery Institute. Yeah, remember them? It seems that for every hundred thousand relatively peaceful, happy, productive members of society that we have here we have one right wing nut-jobs like Jim Spady. I haven’t read enough your your nonsense to classify you in the same category as that moonbat but you seem to be birds of a feather at this point based on a brief review of posts you have engaged in.
I will laugh my ass off if it proves to be a GOP-supporting group that sent out these letters as a way to try and “shame” the more “left” parties. It would be par for the course but still highly entertaining.
October 28, 2012 at 9:18 pm #775160
waynsterParticipantOctober 28, 2012 at 9:45 pm #775161
J242ParticipantToo true Wayne…
October 28, 2012 at 10:38 pm #775162
c@lbobMemberSo, let’s discuss ID requirements as citizens for voters, with Florida as a case study.
I found this on the Florida DMV website
Identification Requirements
As of Jan 1, 2010 The State of Florida has implemented strict ID Requirements for a New Drivers Licesne (sic) or Identication (sic) Card.
Renewing Your Florida Drivers License
If you are renewing a current Florida Drivers License you may renew your license online or via mail one time. After you have used these convenience methods once you must visit a Florida DMV office and provide the required ID – see below
So, there are currently about 180,000 Florida driver license holders whose citizenship status is in doubt. Since new driver license applicants must jump though all the hoops necessary to make their citizenship status known, these unknowns must be those who were licensed before the law was passed who may, or may not, have renewed once under the grandfathered one time renewal with no questions asked feature. Of those tens of thousands license holders, the Florida DMV estimates there a probably 2,600 who may not be citizens, I don’t know how they arrive at that number, but I have my suspicions.
So, what would I have to do to prove my citizenship in FL after I renew once in 2013, and need a new license in 2017? Well, it seems that that future doddering 70-something-year-old will have to produce a certified copy of his birth certificate.
Well, I can’t put my hands on my COB at the moment, somewhere I have both my certificate of live birth and original certificate. But the vagaries of my filing system block me from putting my hands on them right now.
So, for $23 and the original of a notarized statement attesting to the truthfulness of my application, which includes the routine identification to the notary he or she must attest to, I can get it from here in Washington, from Alameda County CA. I have started my application for the certified COB today, since I may be totally demented by 2018.
Of course, that is possible because I can already supply photo ID to the notary. What if I never had a driver license? If I was in FL, would the notary accept my not-citizen DL as id?
Of course, as a straight white man playing at the lowest difficulty setting in the game of life, I’m not too worried.
If my name were Zapata, I might be more concerned.
All this because you don’t want to take my word for it K? I hope your desire doesn’t become the law in Washington.
October 28, 2012 at 11:05 pm #775163
DBPMemberOn the other hand, if your name were Emiliano Zapata, you needn’t be concerned at all. . .
Drivers licenses? We don’t need no stinking drivers licenses.
October 29, 2012 at 12:02 am #775164
kootchmanMemberWell J242.. I don’t need an advanced degree in political science to comment on the trajectory of politics in the NW. Citizens, even you, are allowed to gather information and make their decisions. Are you suggesting qualifying benchmarks … hmm? Literacy tests maybe? You may start a trend. Are you suggesting that this be true… well then, no voter without said degrees, should be allowed to vote on initiatives to raise taxes.. …in fact, let’s just restrict voting to those with advanced banking and finance degrees? “Please, please, please.. take care of me, succor me, don’t make me think, work, risk… I am not qualified” That your rallying cry?
See in the blue bubble that surrounds King County… the rest of your fellows are of different opinion. They really don’t need a nanny state or a surrogate parent.
Even with Americans poised to pick a president and one-third of the nation’s senators, most voters continue to feel the federal government does not have the official approval of its citizenry. One of the central tenets of the Declaration of Independence is that “governments derive their only just powers from the consent of the governed,” but just 25% of Likely U.S. Voters think the federal government today has that consent. Sixty percent (60%) believe the federal government does not have the consent of the governed. Fifteen percent (15%) are not sure. (To see survey question wording, click here.)
October 29, 2012 at 12:02 am #775165
kootchmanMemberWell J242.. I don’t need an advanced degree in political science to comment on the trajectory of politics in the NW. Citizens, even you, are allowed to gather information and make their decisions. Are you suggesting qualifying benchmarks … hmm? Literacy tests maybe? You may start a trend. Are you suggesting that this be true… well then, no voter without said degrees, should be allowed to vote on initiatives to raise taxes.. …in fact, let’s just restrict voting to those with advanced banking and finance degrees? “Please, please, please.. take care of me, succor me, don’t make me think, work, risk… I am not qualified” That your rallying cry? Literacy and basic civic competency expertise as demonstrated by exam prior to voting? I like your benchmarks. I’ll take it.
See in the blue bubble that surrounds King County… the rest of your fellows are of different opinion. They really don’t need a nanny state or a surrogate parent.
Even with Americans poised to pick a president and one-third of the nation’s senators, most voters continue to feel the federal government does not have the official approval of its citizenry. One of the central tenets of the Declaration of Independence is that “governments derive their only just powers from the consent of the governed,” but just 25% of Likely U.S. Voters think the federal government today has that consent. Sixty percent (60%) believe the federal government does not have the consent of the governed. Fifteen percent (15%) are not sure. (To see survey question wording, click here.)
October 29, 2012 at 12:09 am #775166
miwsParticipantClickclickclickclickclickclickclickclickclick
October 29, 2012 at 1:39 am #775167
brewParticipantTypical….when someone has their OWN opinion (rather than Sharpton’s), the lefties resort to personal attacks and blame….at least you are following party lines….
October 29, 2012 at 2:58 am #775168
miwsParticipantOFFS, brew.
If you’ve been following the political threads this past year, you will have noticed that time and time again, kootch has been excessively condescending, insulting, consistently telling others that they are Wrongwrongwrong and even been bullying, and implied that we are stupid.
And some of us on the left are god. damn. tired of it, and are biting back.
Mike
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