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(79 posts)

Totally disgusting

Started 1 year ago by JanS
Latest reply from JoB

JanS
Member Profile

I have no use for people like this. If you've considered yourself part of this movement, are you really that sure you want to be associated with this?

http://news.yahoo.com/s/mcclatchy/3457015

Posted 1 year ago #
miws
Member Profile

Oh, but doncha dare call them "teabaggers", because it has a vulgar, sexual connotation to it, and is very hurtful and hateful, when directed at them.

(Incidentally, I didn't even know of the sexual connotation of the term, until Dori Monson kindly pointed it out on his blog, after a State Rep or some such used the term publicly, [Can't stand to listen to his show anymore, but he probably made a huge stink of it there as well.])

Mike

Posted 1 year ago #
francis57
Member Profile

Posted 1 year ago #
brew
Member Profile

Jeez...How I hate it when people take the actions of a few and use it to label an entire group, and those who use it to promote their own agenda. I cannot count the times that small groups of Dems, repubs, and libs have used just as vulgar AND WORSE behavior. (And no, I am not affiliated with the "tea bagger" movement).

Unfortunately, by the time people realize that it’s BOTH the Democratic AND Republican party that is ruining this country, it’s going to be too late.

Posted 1 year ago #
Smitty
Member Profile

That's ridiculous.

First off BOTH sides have idiots. Remember WTO? Remember pies thrown into the faces of conservatives? I don't discount the views of the Left because of a few idiots(I just discount them because they are usually wrong).

Second, if I was a political operative - the first thing I would do is plant someone into a movement you didn't agree with and have them yell something racial. You guarantee that KO, Rachel, the now defunct Air America and yes, the liberal MSM will run with it.

Posted 1 year ago #
clark5080
Member Profile

It is always the actions of a few that get all the attention. That does not reflect the vast majority of people who who oppose this healthcare bill.
Jim

Posted 1 year ago #
JoB
Member Profile

Smitty

i remember a similar argument when someone shot and killed an abortion doctor recently... and it didn't play well then either...

There may only be a few individuals caught on film or by reporters yelling the n word at those of color but Sarah Palin came dangerously close to exactly that while representing her party running for Vice President.

Racism isn't the issue.. hate is... and while you might find a great deal of anger and frustration demonstration of democrats ... you don't find the kind of hate that negates the humanity of others simply because of their sex or race or sexual orientation or ...

and if you do.. it is condemned loudly and publicly.. period.

democrats.. for the most part... think someone actually has to do something vile to you to personally before expressing that kind of hate.

I am aware that i am speaking generally... but the real tragedy is that republicans as a group have condoned hate generating language and behavior as part of their political process...

That saddens me more than sickens me...
but it is a lot like the 60s all over again.

Posted 1 year ago #
elikapeka
Member Profile

Yes, both sides have idiots. That's always the argument. But I, and I think most people, condemn this type of behavior no matter where it comes from. I mean, really, Smitty, do you know anybody who supported the WTO anarchists? I don't.

But I found this especially offensive. This was a mob scene. I know I'm sounding like my mother here, but the Capitol is a place deserving of better behavior. Respect is due to the place and the office, even if you do not respect the particular individuals in the office at the time. I was very saddened to see people showing up wearing ratty tank tops and shorts in the people's house, spitting on and yelling obscenities at elected representatives.

I'm not particularly in favor of this bill either, because I think it doesn't go far enough. But I really wish we could find some way to discuss the true merits of these things without having these emotional triggers constantly being pulled to get people so worked up we never get to the real issues.

Oh, and Mike, I'm with you on Dori Monson. I don't know what's happened to him over the years, but he's totally unlistenable now (if that's a word). :-)

Liz

Posted 1 year ago #
JoB
Member Profile

you know Smitty... i just caught your last sentence as i hit enter...

do you really think that person was planted by someone in the other party to make conservatives look bad?

get real. All you have to do is watch an evening of Fox news to know better. That kind of rhetoric and hate can be found on a television near you any night of the week...

you may have become so accustomed to it that you think that kind of rhetoric is normal behavior...

I agree that yelling the n word in public is mostly an exaggeration of what is broadcast nightly...

but it is only a small leap from the private thoughts generated by all that hatred to thinking it is ok to voice that hatred publicly.

acknowledging that is part of that personal responsibility thing that has lost all meaning in the language of the conservatives.

personal responsibility includes owning up and condemning that kind of behavior...

not condoning or excusing it or blaming someone else.

Posted 1 year ago #
Smitty
Member Profile

Who's condoning it? It's awful - but it doesn't negate the entire movement.

And yes, JoB while not nearly as wide-spread as the 60's when Dixiecrats had power (that's short for Dixie DEMOCRATS, btw) it is equally as appalling.

Those darn Lincoln-Republicans!

Posted 1 year ago #
JanS
Member Profile

I guess I find it very sad that arguments like Smitty's happen. Blame the Dems, it was someone planted, never take personal responsibility, and heaven forbid that a conservative Republican condemn this type of behavior and shut it down. Do you honestly think that all those slurs, all those signs that show up at all the teabag rallies are plants? I don't. And I think we are being naive if we think that the "tea bagging" is about civil discourse that is meant to take our country in another direction. There's nothing civil about it. And be careful what you wish for, as what we become may not be all that palatable.

Oh, and , wow, the Dems/libs/progressives are to blame for all the things that got our country where it is. What short memories we have. I am soooooo tired of these arguments about "you did it", "no, you did it". We are fast become a very divided country, where "no one" is to blame. And too many people are becoming haters because of it. I think it's very sad.

Posted 1 year ago #
Smitty
Member Profile

How many times do I have to condemn it, JanS? Four, five?

Smitty Condems It. Good?

Now, that doesn't mean you condemn the ENTIRE MOVEMENT.

A few bad apples.........

I don't condemn your stupid movements because of a few bad apples, I condemn them because they are stupid.

Clear?

BTW - what is a "teabagger", anyway?

Posted 1 year ago #
JanS
Member Profile

Smitty...the "official" wikipedia definition:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tea_Party_protests

another take:

http://tpmdc.talkingpointsmemo.com/2009/04/freedomworks-long-history-of-teabagging.php?ref=fp1

and the take that really gets some people, and makes one wonder about the lack of thought when naming your movement:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Teabagging

Posted 1 year ago #
dawsonct
Member Profile

I don't condemn these dupes for the fairly large number of backwards, racist types in their "movement", I condemn them for the ignorant, fearful, and selfish agenda they support, at the bidding of their corporate bosses.
--
Anarchism AND Libertarianism are BOTH idiotic movements. Humans haven't evolved far enough to be able to live under only the dictates of fairness and morality, nor are we capable of achieving equatability in all of our interactions, so personal resentment is inescapable.
Maybe in a few hundred millennia.

Posted 1 year ago #
miws
Member Profile

"BTW - what is a "teabagger", anyway?"

Smitty, the definition that upset Dori so much is NSFW.

I'm sure Urban Dictionary lists that def.

Mike

Posted 1 year ago #
Smitty
Member Profile

So, if I understand it correctly, using the word "teabagger" when speaking of the tea partier" is kind of, sort of, maybe kind of bigoted?

I can only imagine the outrage had conservatives used this term to disparage a movement on the Left.

Posted 1 year ago #
JanS
Member Profile

Smitty...this is what they call themselvesa...don't accuse people of being bigoted when there is nothing there. They chose the term.

Posted 1 year ago #
elikapeka
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Actually, Smitty, the people in the group used the term to describe themselves, not realizing the connotation. I agree that it's in poor taste to continue to use it once you know the "urban" meaning, but they sort of did it to themselves.

Posted 1 year ago #
Smitty
Member Profile

Wha?

I only hear Rachel, Keith and their minions using that term.

Tea Partier = Tea Bagger

They know EXACTLY what they are doing when they use the term, so there are no excuses for "who started it".

Posted 1 year ago #
metrognome
Member Profile

wow, there is a lot of revisionist history being made out here, usually by leaving out a few inconvenient truths ... let's see ... where to start?
- if the Tea Party was ever a 'grass roots movement' it has long since been coopted by Republican leaders (like Dick Armey) who are making a fortune in 'consulting fees' and hoping that the public will be on their side for the next election cycle
- the original 'tea revolt' had to do with 'taxation without representation'; this one is based on 'we were soundly whipped in an election where we were able to vote and so now we are behaving like a two-year-old throwing a screaming tantrum on the supermarket floor.' Exactly what tax increases had this administration actually put in place before the TP was formed?
- when the John Birch Society started acting the same way in the 60's and 70's, conservative leaders like Barry Goldwater had the stones to tell them to behave or get out of the Republican Party. They didn't listen and were expelled. Who has heard of the JBS now, except in history class?
- it's pretty disengenuous to blame liberals for the riots at the Seattle WTO when the main organizers of the violence were anarchists and libertarians from outside the US (note that the violence has continued at WTO meetings in Europe.) Sure, liberals were involved in the protests -- mostly the non-violent ones. Anarchists believe in little or no government, a concept closely allied with the conservatives' alleged desire for small government.
- the Dixiecrats pretty much all became southern Republicans ... Why? Because LBJ signed the Civil Rights Act giving blacks the right to vote. Doesn't that seem racist at its core? Doesn't having the motto "I want my country back" seem racist at its core when it is directed at the first president who is not lily white?
- doesn't it seem odd that the very people who supported a president and a Congress that ran this country's economy into the ground and lied us into a war that has killed over 4,000 US soldiers and maimed 10's of thousands more are mad at a liberal president because he hasn't fixed their catastrophic mistakes in only a year. Keep in mind that the Republican congress repealed the regulatory laws that were in place since the Depression, allowing Wall Street, the banks, the insurance giants, etc. to run amok for the sake of greed -- and most of those firms are run by Republicans ...
tafn. discuss among yourselves ... politely, please.

Posted 1 year ago #
JanS
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Smitty...your argument doesn't hold water..they called themselves that...quit this always blaming the other side thing. I hate both terms.

Posted 1 year ago #
dawsonct
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Thanks for the point-for-point refutations Metro, I didn't have the energy.
--
I don't know what Georges Santayana would say about consciously revising history, but I bet the results of historical revisionism is more or less the same as forgetting ones history.

Posted 1 year ago #
JoB
Member Profile

Smitty..

have you actually listened to any of the teabaggers? most of them are not articulate enough to make their point... they sure can chant slogans though.. including.. we don't want single payer.. leave your hands off my medicare...

LOL... if stupidity is your bottom line you may have to rethink support on this one...

metrognome..

i can't thank you enough... i really didn't have the energy for this one today. welcome to the arena.

Posted 1 year ago #
jamminj
Member Profile

my favorite is:

I don't want govmnt run health care...

and they better not cut anything from my medicare!!!

It's ironic how 8 years ago, America knew best on how to run another country and tell them how when and where... but when it comes to running this country... then all of a sudden the govment don't know squat.

And this 'so called' pro-life argument: so its ok to protect life (until birth), then if an insurance company wants to deny life saving measures to a live person.... oops, it was pre-existing!!! sorry.

I would have no problem with the arguments against in itself... but bringing monkeys to a ralley, holding up nazi signs, calling politicians ni55er and fa55ot, bringing guns to rallies, the death threats....and THEN the complicit nature of the crowd that allows that behavior. And somehow we are to take the rest of your arguments seriously???

Posted 1 year ago #
HMC Rich
Member Profile

JoB, please source Sarah's racist statement. Also, the term "teabagger" is not nice. It should not be used along with the word "ni....." and the "h..." word. You should live up to the values you espouse. I suggest you read Michelle Malkin's "Unhinged". Tell me what you think about those idiots.

JanS, do you truly believe that most people of the tea party movement are racist? Come on. You are not ignorant. You know better. You know those people screaming racist/homophobic comments are the ignorant ones. The majority are not that way. You know that. You are just stirring the pot. One reason Beck started the 9/12 project was because of the 9 principles and 12 values. That helps keep the fringe elements in check. He warned the Tea Party people the other day too.

You know that both sides usually act with a modicum of respect but there always seem to be a few on the fringe.

Smitty, I get what you are saying.

Hey Metrognome, are the Anachists from Portland outside the United States? Why do those idiots have to ruin so many things? Pittsburgh last year wasn't too happy with certain behaviors during the G7 or G8 (whatever that meeting is called). I didn't hear of too many altercations from the right wing extremists last year when the town meetings were happening. I did see some SEIU people trying to stop others from exercising their right to speak out.

Yes, the Republicans behavior paved the way for the Democrats to control the legislative and executive branch. No, it is not racist to say "I want my country back". Limited Government vs Statism. This President at best is a big goverment guy who stated that he doesn't care for the limits of the constitution. At worst he is a Progressive Socialist who is going to try to get the Federal Government to grow exponentially and change this country that will make some European countries more capitalist than us. Correct me if I am wrong but I think you can get jail time for not buying health insurance when implemented. If that is true, then we have truly lost more freedom.

Metro, you forget that Mr. Obama promised that his programs would keep unemployment at or under 8%. He bitches about the previous administrations debt but has already doubled that. This new entitlement will cost more than estimated. Even Dick Durbin said that. You guys need to also take ownership of what he (Obama and the Democratic Congress) hath wrought.

Anyway, I truly wish the racists and homophobes would go away. For a while yet we still have some form of freedom. Many disagree and have the right however ugly or repugnant we (yes I said we) find it. But, are you saying that people cannot speak their minds (however ignorant or vile?) Are you going to be like Woodrow Wilson and throw people in jail for speaking their opinion?

Racism is bad for all of us. And historically it was the Democratic party and their policies that kept minorities down. LBJ knew that and pushed for the Civil Rights act anyway. Someday I hope all people are treated equally (and this is only for JoB (except women ...you know I tease). There is still a ways to go.

Anyway, I agree the Republican party got what it deserved, and Obama ran a centrist campaign but left hints that he was really more left wing. It was a means to an end (Hi Saul). The American people elect our officials. We have the final say. There are going to be a lot less democrats around Washington after November.

Posted 1 year ago #
FullTilt
Member Profile

The Tea Party Movement is one of the most intellectual political movements this nation has ever seen

http://www.bobcesca.com/images/medicare_sign_teabaggers.jpg
http://politicalhumor.about.com/library/images/blpic-morans.htm

Posted 1 year ago #
HMC Rich
Member Profile

So Jamminj. Do you support killing people who can't support or defend themselves? Who speaks for that unborn child? That is the question. Choice is whether to have sex. Period! Now, I am all for birth control, but once that sperm meets and greets that egg, well you know the rest, unless you get to the pharmacy and get the post sex pill cocktail. You get my drift.

The family is the main unit for taking care of children but society has OK'd single parenting as a hallowed style of parenting. The prisons have too many people from single families. My parents divorced. I was fortunate. Many aren't.

Ironically, you have a slight point on some people in this debate concerning Medicare. I have to chuckle. This country supports more charities and gives more money to a variety of causes. The government is one of he biggest healthcare providers already. It is far from perfect. In fact it is busted. But most people get help. Too many do not. Many do our best while others feed off the system. I have no love for insurance companies.

I also don't want mandated healthcare. It is not the Federal Government's role. I don't want social security, I don't want Medicare but I have paid into it all my life to help others. I most likely will not see the "benefit" from those programs. Those other entitlements are broke and you know what, they will bankrupt this country and everyone will be up a creek.

Some people go way too far for their supposed cause. I don't like people waving the swastika. Have you ever read the Nazi platform? There are some items that either party, but much fewer on the Republican side, have incorporated in their own party here in the US. Read it. http://users.stlcc.edu/rkalfus/PDFs/026.pdf
There are items in that platform which are being implemented today. No, I am not calling Democrats Nazi's but some far left nuts do mirror some aspects of that platform.

So I am repulsed by the Swastika but I am glad history shows us what they stood for. So if I call Obama a socialist, well true history is on my side. Now if I see someone calling him Hitler, I will probably ask them to take their hate elsewhere, then yell at them if they continue and if they do not stop I might just kick their ass. You got it! There is a huge difference.

My wonderful wife told me that Hitler was right wing. I laughed and told her, Yes, right of Stalin and Communism. How that lie was perpetuated and taught is beyond me. Actually I do know. Goebbels and crew learned propoganda from Woodrow Wilson and crew in the US.

Finally, you are entitled to your opinion. I just disagree with a portion of it.

Posted 1 year ago #
HMC Rich
Member Profile

PS, I guess the next time I see the LaRouchies with their Obama Hitler art in the Junction, I will have to follow through with my rant from the previous post. So be it.

Posted 1 year ago #
HMC Rich
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Oh Full Tilt, those are priceless! Keep 'em coming. I am still laughing.

Posted 1 year ago #
JanS
Member Profile

Yes, we're all entitled to our opinions, Rich......and I don't agree with yours. I once thought you the reasonable one on here, considering that we're probably on paper miles apart in thinking (but in person probably closer than we both think)...but even stating that some of the far left are capable of Nazi-like behavior doesn't sit well with me...just sayin'.

The rest? Well, I'm 63...guess I'll benefit from gov't. run programs way before you do...hmm...come to think about it, I already do...and I'm truly thankful for it. I consider myself very lucky to have it, indeed.

Posted 1 year ago #
HMC Rich
Member Profile

Jan, don't get me wrong. I abhor the thing that was called Nazi Germany. I also abhor Anarchy. At times the fringe elements will get a tiny say in the more middle of the road debate. I was talking about the platform. Not the actions that the Third Reich took part of. Socialism is still common in Europe. Norway has flourished. Others have not. Greece is killing the EU. Why we need to head to more Federal Government control is beyond me.

As far as the entitlements go, you paid into them, you deserve a piece of the pie. Our elected representatives should not have made a pay as you go retirement fund. I have to look and see if a savings account for Social Security would have been unconstitutional. Anyway, it grew and grew, and the government took the surplus and spent it. Now what will we do when you boomers all hang it up with the 9 to 5 job?

We elected those people. They think they are helping us and in fact they have helped a ton of people. It has been mismanaged and it will most likely fail. So, in part it is income redistribution and I will be on the wrong end. Can you see why I find that ironic?

Posted 1 year ago #
GenHillOne
Member Profile

"The family is the main unit for taking care of children but society has OK'd single parenting as a hallowed style of parenting. The prisons have too many people from single families. My parents divorced. I was fortunate. Many aren't."
-
Sorry, Rich, I too was a fan of yours - though miles apart on so many views - but you lost me on this one. I haven't had nearly enough coffee yet to write more, and it's probably slightly off topic anyway, but talk about ridiculous. Thanks for offending half of my family and minimizing (never asked to be "hallowed") our parenting.

Posted 1 year ago #
FullTilt
Member Profile

"My wonderful wife told me that Hitler was right wing. I laughed and told her, Yes, right of Stalin and Communism."

Actually he was what would be considered today a Moral Conservative. He was also a Christian.
Replace the word jew with the word fag, and his speeches mirror many of the religious right today.

The folkish-minded man, in particular, has the sacred duty, each in his own denomination, of making people stop just talking superficially of God's will, and actually fulfill God's will, and not let God's word be desecrated. For God's will gave men their form, their essence and their abilities. Anyone who destroys His work is declaring war on the Lord's creation, the divine will.

- Adolf Hitler, Mein Kampf Vol. 2 Chapter 10

I believe today that I am acting in the sense of the Almighty Creator. By warding off the Jews I am fighting for the Lord's work.

- Adolf Hitler, Speech, Reichstag, 1936

The Catholic Church should not deceive herself: if National Socialism does not succeed in defeating Bolshevism, then Church and Christianity in Europe too are finished. Bolshevism is the mortal enemy of the Church as much as of Fascism. ...Man cannot exist without belief in God. The soldier who for three and four days lies under intense bombardment needs a religious prop.

- Adolf Hitler in conversation with Cardinal Michael von Faulhaber of Bavaria, November 4, 1936

Posted 1 year ago #
Keith
Member Profile

A friend of mine who recently moved to Walla Walla had a customer at his store leave behind three pennies because the person "couldn't stand to look at that terrorist's face." !!

Posted 1 year ago #
FullTilt
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Another reason I stay on this side of the mountains.

Posted 1 year ago #
austin
Member Profile

As an internet discussion grows longer, the probability of a comparison involving Nazis or Hitler approaches one.

If someone brings up Nazis in general conversation when it wasn't necessary or germane without it necessarily being an insult, it's probably about time for the thread to end.
If someone brings up Nazis in general conversation when it was vaguely related but is basically being used as an insult, the speaker can be considered to be flaming and not debating.
If someone brings up Nazis in any conversation that has been going on too long for one of the parties, it can be used as a fair excuse to end the thread and declare victory for the other side.

http://wiki.killfile.org/projects/usenet/faqs/godwin/

Posted 1 year ago #
In2theknight
Member Profile

As a person of color, JoB, I'd like you to explain this a bit more "Racism isn't the issue.. hate is". What exactly do you think racism is then, since by your logic, it isn't hate?

So when I'm called the n word it's totally not a racism issue?

Posted 1 year ago #
JanS
Member Profile

My take...and my take only. It's not JUST a racism thing, it's a hate thing. Racism is part of it, and it played out in that instance. But, the hate is what gets me. Yesterday, in the heat of it all, someone yelled out "Baby killer"...of course, there's a spin on it now, and the gentleman from Texas has apologized : http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/03/22/randy-neugebauer-revealed_n_508525.html

Oh, yeah, I said "it's a baby killer" referring to the bill, not the person speaking"...yeah, that's the ticket. We will have to believe him, but I can bet you that after it was said, there was a scramble as to who could come up with the best "excuse" to downplay this. Maybe we just need to tape their mouths shut.

This country has come so far in so many things, yet..not...and it's so very sad.

Posted 1 year ago #
JoB
Member Profile

intotheknight..

i didn't say racism isn't an issue..and more than sexism is... but it is not "the" issue with teabaggers. they are equal opportunity haters.

HMCRich...

did you miss Sarah's speechs somewhere in the midwest during the campaign where she "jokingly" advocated killing the president and referred repeatedly to his race.. and where she smiled as audience members.. you know those crazy few... shouted racist slurs?

And i thought you such a fan...

As for abortion rights.. i will say the same thing to you that i have said to those who argued with me for the past 40+ years... i will have more respect for your concern for the life of a fetus when you have more respect for my concern for the life of the mother and her child.

If a respect for life was truly the over-riding issue here... conservatives would be all for programs that support pregnant women medically, socially and financially and that concern would be reflected in infant mortality rates.
Our live birth rates fall barely above third world nations.

If a respect for life was truly the over-riding issue here... programs that provide for the health and well being of all children.. including a first rate education would have the full support of the conservative coalition. The stats don't support that either.

you can say all you want to about intention..
but outcome tells a very different story.

the right to life movement has nothing to do with life.. but with controlling procreation... thereby controlling women.
It's a power grab of the most insidious kind.

Over 40 years ago i made the right choice for myself and carried a child to term. I was lucky that my child and his family came back into my life.. but for 30+ years i was suicidal on his birthday.. never knowing whether he was dead or alive.

I can't begin to describe the loss i carried because of my decision... but at least my doctor gave me a choice even though that choice was not legal at the time.

If you are going to insist a woman assume all of the responsibility for making a life for herself and her child..
you need to also give her the right to decide for herself whether she can accept that responsibility.

It's all very well to strut your stuff and walk away.. blaming a woman for her lack of birth control... but i am living proof that birth control is not always so successful.

lst baby... i wasn't supposed to be able to ever have children due to medical complications from incest.. thus the doc's offer of a D&C...
2nd baby... i used condoms... i wouldn't count on them for protection from sexually transmitted diseases either...
3rd baby.. that was a failure of the pill.. and yes it took it religiously.. my husband was too busy "spreading his seed" to invest in his own marriage..
4th baby... a fetus that didn't survive that they found snuggled in with the tumors they found during my hysterectomy... apparently my tubal ligation was faulty:(

And that doesn't even begin to address the children who are the result of date rape or much worse or of incest.

It's too bad right to life folks don't care more about the living... but there you go... and there goes the argument that this has anything to do with a respect for life.

Posted 1 year ago #
jamminj
Member Profile

"do you truly believe that most people of the tea party movement are racist?"

YES. when the fringe become the vocal majority, they come to represent the movement. Not only are the racists and bigots becoming the face of the tea party, now you have some republicans leaders either making excuses for their behavior or leading them on. You have a whole network that stages demonstrations in their name.

When there is no longer a discussion, but only a banging of the drum just to drown out ANY discussion... then those miscreants are no longer interested in honest discussion and exchange of ideas, but only to disrupt the democratic process.

The tea party is the new KKK.

Posted 1 year ago #
JoB
Member Profile

jamminj..

not quite.. but close.

they are the good old boys who sat in the local bars drinking and laughing about the hanging bodies in their local trees..

they are the women whose virtue was so fragile that a man of color couldn't speak to them without compromising it.

they are the downtrodden have nots who were so desperate to get that they would literally kill to keep prevent anyone else from getting.

they are those with so little sense of self worth that their fragile sense of social position depends entirely on those they can keep underfoot.

they are those for whom the mob is essential to their ability to speak.

and perhaps those whose hoods are necessary to allow them to face their own mirrors...

Posted 1 year ago #
HMC Rich
Member Profile

I appreciate the responses given towards my post and others. We disagree quite a bit.

I believe many of you are so used to agreeing with each other that outside opinions will not be accepted.

I appreciate Jo's post about children's choices because it was from the heart. (Definitely not 41 although I am thinking Minnesota roots.?) Personal experience is one of our most cherished decision makers we have. More education is the key to many of these problems. Being open minded is another. It is easy to close our minds and lash out. Plus the written word is not good with context or facial expressions to understand peoples full meaning.

I have seen, at times, hatred come from many socio-economic groups. It is ugly. I have received bruises from that ugliness. I see mistakes repeated, but I also see light at the end of some tunnels.

I feel sorry for the old Democrat who has had their party taken from them. Others are happy at the changes. I feel chagrin, and a bit of wonder, for the Progressive Movement on how they have changed the country in a bit over a century. I also feel compelled to argue the conservative view point at times because I believe it is the better choice. That is not to say that I am not open to issues that are passionately spoken about that are not lock-step with the conservative cause. I just do not see reciprocation from the left quite often.

Jamminj, have you been to a Tea Party? If you have and have seen them promoting hate then it would be hard for me to refute your claim. Or are you just using the media which sensationalizes much of what we see and hear? Where one of the most used terms in media is the term "edit". You are entitled to your opinion, but is it based in fact or rhetoric?

Do people get riled up? To quote my neighbors from the upper midwest, Ya Sure, You Betcha. I have been to a few political meetings but not the Tea Party gatherings. I prefer The 9/12 project due to the values and principles applied to that movement to keep it in check. I saw men, women, and people of different ethnicities. Granted, mostly white but still a group of people who would rather just vote and live out their lives, but due to some radical or different governmental actions, have decided to pay more attention to the people that we all elect and what they are pushing.

So, if you and others truly think you are smarter than the rest of us, then so be it. You are entitled to your own views. Arrogance and Humility. I would like to think that we all show those traits once in awhile.

Good Night, Rich

Posted 1 year ago #
JanS
Member Profile

How many photos of people with posters portraying Obama as Hitler during "Tea Party" rallies do we have to see before we form an opinion? 5? 10? 20? How many are OK, before we get the idea? How many black Congressmen have to be called the "n" word and spit upon before it's not OK? Once? 20? Where do we draw the line? What is an acceptable number to you? to any of us? When will the "politicians" who are benefiting from it finally call them on it? We need to hold them all accountable, make them take personal responsibility for egging these people on so they can benefit.

What ever happened to intelligent civil protest and discourse? Why are these people excused because they're only the "fringes"? How do we truly know that the majority doesn't feel the way they do? Because we heard so on Fox News? on CNN? MSNBC? I'm appalled, have been appalled, will always be appalled that there are human beings out there with the intelligence of my left shoe doing this in my country. I suppose I'm in the minority though....my view isn't taken very seriously among many people. Oh, well...not a perfect world, is it?

Posted 1 year ago #
jamminj
Member Profile

An open letter to conservatives
.
http://tpmcafe.talkingpointsmemo.com/talk/blogs/a/m/americandad/2010/03/an-open-letter-to-conservative.php?ref=recdc
.
"the GOP -- and the conservative end of the American political spectrum has become irresponsible and irrational. Worse, it's tolerating, promoting and celebrating prejudice and hatred."
.
as far as the question, have I ever been to a 'tea party' party, nope. But I've never been to a KKK rally either... don't need to attend either to know the message of hate.
.
"mostly white but still a group of people who would rather just vote and live out their lives, but due to some radical or different governmental actions, have decided"
.
Yes, but now that the elected officials are ones that they disagree with, there are claims of
TYRANNY and ARMAGEDDON. Don't like the outcome, we have people advocating throwing rocks, calling people the n word, and threatening further violence. And these are from the so called leaders.
.

Posted 1 year ago #
dawsonct
Member Profile

Rich, I have tried to have reasoned, civil discussions with you, but you are never willing to address points made, and constantly gloss over or ignore corrections of your "facts" and assumptions. I know it's not personal, your non-responses are received by everyone. I have a very difficult time taking someone seriously who is so clueless about political systems that they would equate National Socialism with social democracies (which, too bad, the United States IS). You need to track down an introduction to political science textbook and READ IT.
Fact is, OUR Presidents politics are nearly indistinguishable from those of Bill Clinton. In other words, slightly to the left of Nixon, slightly to the right of Eisenhower. Jimmy Carter, the man who DEregulated the airline industry (OOOH, we can't restrain trade with RULES!!!), was about as close to a real Democrat as we have come over the last forty years.
Where is the scary socialist line? Are those tax-payer created freeways and roads you drive on socialist? Are the police who pull you over for drunk driving part of a socialist govt? How about the tax-payer supported fire department? REAGEN signed the law making it illegal for emergency rooms to turn away patients. Was Reagen a socialist? When you breath clean air or drink clean water, brought to you by government regulation of polluters, do you scream socialism? At what point is a civil society too much for you to take? We live in a cooperative system; it's what humans do. Where TF do YOU come from?
--
Maybe you can go join Rush, Glenn-boy and Rick Perry in the Disunited State of Texas. Get a gun, in the end, it'll be your only freedom.

Posted 1 year ago #
JoB
Member Profile

HMCRich..

sorry to disillusion you. but my "heartfelt" positions are home grown.. right here in the pacific northwest.

i actually see my "radical socialism" as a direct result of my christian upbringing.

I read my bible many times and saw a clear difference in the message from first to second testaments.

I am a good old christian girl who believes that you treat others the way you would want to be treated..
that you share what you can and you make time to help others when there is something you can do for them..
that you render unto Caesar that which is Caesars.. namely taxes.. and in return for that you should be able to expect a well maintained infrastructure and an orderly safe society.
I believe those that can afford to pay more should pay more... because we didn't all get the same opportunities.

I am old enough to have friends who died from illegal abortions.
I am old enough to have friends who couldn't stand the pain of giving up their children to adoption and eventually committed suicide.. either the quick and dirty way or the long way by blurring all reality with drugs and alcohol..
I am old enough to have seen fathers abandon not only their wives but their children in their haste to have the latest model arm candy...
I am old enough to have watched those discarded women and children reduced to poverty and public ridicule..

I am also old enough to remember better times...
to have friends who relied on the nutrition plans for pregnant mothers to produce healthy children. to have been educated in a school system that valued education.

Mine was the last generation to live with the illusion of opportunity.

The rallying cry for my generation was..

"ask not what your country can do for you..
but what you can do for your country".

even now.. the peace corp thrives on the volunteerism of baby boomers.

Much has been made of the drugs and rock and roll in the 60s.. less has been said about the rampant idealism that was crushed by the very same political machine that has had their death grip on this nation for the last few decades.

The war mobilized my generation...
and incidentally produced an unexpected result... suffarge...
but Nixon suspending habeous corpus pulled young people from all backgrounds into the street. it's been done again and i am left asking.. where is the outrage?

Insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results... The Bush elder crew came directly from Dick Nixon's inner circle... who by the way cut his chops with McCarthy... second verse was a president with Altzeimers run by his chief of staff.. another Nixon holdover... and then Bush younger run by Cheney.. look it up.. another Nixon holdover.

No prosperity for the average american in any of those good republican presidencies... but heck.. who's counting.. because they just might stand up to those ideals you think they have one day and make a difference.

It's pure insanity to expect that doing the same thing over and over will produce different results...

their policies brought us our current health care crisis.. our financial meltdown that may or may not still collapse the US economy... ongoing military involvement across the globe... reduced personal freedom.. reduced personal security... and the largest gap between the wealthy and the middle class in our nation's history.

The rights of businesses to make unlimited profits has decimated our retirement accounts and turned citizens into little more than profit generating centers for corporate america... all in the name of "free enterprise"... unless you count all those advantages our government has regulated for the top producers or the advantages they gain from having an unlimited conduit into the public till.

How is that working for you these days?

the motto for this generation seems to be either

ask not what your president can do for you
but what you can do for your president.. or

ask not what your party can do for you
but what you can do for your party...

What happened to idealism on either side of that political aisle?
What happened to thinking individuals who listened to the propaganda and went home asking themselves whether or not all this malarky was in their best interests?

I can tell you what happened because i have been present to watch it..
hate happened.
hate overtook too many of our churches...
hate became our political language...
and all of that was aided abetted by undermining our educational system so effectively that most of our populace can't tell the difference between a valid argument and a smear campaign.

You get what you pay for.. and all that rhetoric about limiting taxes and kicking the government out of our private lives (so corporations can siphon off even more of your hard earned money) buys you an angry, ignorant, frustrated mob who will believe anything they are told.

This is not the America i hoped my grandchildren and greatgrandchildren would grow up in..
and quite frankly it isn't the America i want to retire in.

Experience has taught me that the lies they are selling as truth are just advertising campaigns...

let the buyer beware

Posted 1 year ago #
metrognome
Member Profile

JoB, dawsonct, jamminj -- WOW!! Thanks for your posts. I have been out here for a while struggling with all my pent-up anger about the Tea Party babies throwing bricks through windows and cutting propane lines (at the wrong house, BTW) and your posts just put my feelings into words.
No matter what they say, this is about showing that 'uppity n-word' what his real place is. What you are watching is a lynch mob. They should at least be honest enough to put their hoods on. I too fear for my country ...
- gun sales are through the roof, allegedly because communist Obama was going to implement gun control; proof? NONE. Do you know how easy it is to buy a 50 cal. sniper rifle or to convert a semiauto rifle to full auto under the guise of the 'right to bear arms' -- is that what our Founding Fathers envisioned as a well-regulated militia?
- threats against this president are up several hundred percent over any president in history, incl. George W. Bush, who is responsible for the deaths of over 4,000 US troops. The threats started as soon as the election was over, based on paranoid ramblings of well armed thugs rather than on, say, starting a war by lying to Congress and the American people.
- Remember Timothy McVeigh, the good Christian soldier who murdered hundreds of civilians -- he was not alone and is revered by more so-called patriots than a sane person can imagine.
- Thugs are openly carrying automatic weapons to town halls attended by the president; Bush's minions arrested people for wearing the wrong T shirt to his Republican-only love fests.
- Republican 'leaders' are raking in MILLION$$$ in donations by pouring gasoline on the fire. Do they really care about our nation? Not as long as our currency is still good.
I too fear for our country.
Last night (ok, early this morning) I watched a History Channel show on US snipers. I watched the parts about Chuck Mawhinney, a legend from the Viet Nam war and a cpl whose name I don't remember who rec'd a Silver Star, I believe, for his gallantry in Iraq. I was sruck by their matter-of-factness about doing their job, which was to protect fellow soldiers, and doing it well. They tok pride in protecting their fellow soldiers; I felt a great deal of admiration for their courage and skill, even though their job was to kill as many human beings as possible. Then I saw the the sniper instructor who referred to the enemy in Iraq as sacks of crap and gloated about the dogs feeding on their corpses (this is a huge issue for Muslims). The look of joy on his face disgusted me; I feel his disrespect for the enemy disgraced the Corps. I was surprised the military allowed those segments to air. There is no doubt in my mind that neo-conservatives consider the Iraq War to be a holy war -- there is incontrovertible proof that planning for the invasion began long before 9/11.
I too fear for our country.

Posted 1 year ago #
JoB
Member Profile

A small bunch of guys walking strutting around with guns...

http://motherjones.com/politics/2010/03/oath-keepers

Posted 1 year ago #
dawsonct
Member Profile

As long as the dissolution of the American family and the affect on society in general is being mentioned, it stands as yet another example of the 'blame the victim' mindset of Republicans.
Consider at some point the effects of Jim Crow laws and how they actually penalized what would have been a fairly normal African-American household of the era. Men weren't highly employable in the Old South, rarely could find steady work, always the lowest paid, were the first laid off, and never rose to positions of management. If a household had an adult working-age male living in it, what little public assistance a family COULD receive, wouldn't be available to them. Consequently, most adult males left their families for the factories of the North. Sometimes families would eventually be reunited, but more often the splintering would just continue.
--
As with some aspects of institutional racism, this type of family splintering continues but more on the basis of class and economics.
--
How someone can possibly argue that the circumstances one is born into should dictate their worth to society is completely beyond me. That child you refuse to assist, post-partum, is a real, LIVE human being who is living out their potential. If we refuse to help keep them healthy, to help keep them fed, to educate them and give them a vision of a better future, we will simply continue down the road being paved for us by the prison-industrial complex and the ultra-conservative ideals of Today's Republican Party.
--
Providing a social safety-net doesn't create a lazy society, it allows people to take risks and push the limits of their potential. The Calvinist mind-set held by the Republicans, that wealth=virtue (as long as the wealthy pander to your parochial biases), will ruin America.

Posted 1 year ago #
HMC Rich
Member Profile

I certainly wish I had the time to answer you point by point. A year ago I could but not now.

For Jamminj. To call the Tea partiers the KKK is in my opinion just as bad as people calling Obama Hitler. I certainly did not see apologies when that was done to the former President.
Your rhetoric does us no good.

I too abhor the thought of violence and threats. Why inflame it? Condemn the bad individuals. I too condemn them.

I could also get together a laundry list of what the other side is saying. Thanks for the link.

Dawsonct. You make me chuckle. I wish I had the time to argue with you more. Ask the other posters about engaging on points last year. I did. I cannot now. Yes I do not answer your posts point by point. I have more necessarry items to do.

I find your posts interesting and maybe I am wrong but there are a few items that really tick you off and that edginess shows. I know more history than you think. If you feel that need to feel superior be my guest.

For the past few months the democratic party has taken a beating. With the passage of health care insurance through all means possible the President is getting his wish. The house and senate games the system just like the republicans did in the past. Patronage and the good old boy network is strong in both parties.

Tell me you are proud of this process. I never was when the Republicans pulled that crap. That is why new blood is being molded for the next few elections. The people who voted for Obama wanted change. Kind of like the Tea Party movement wants change too.

America has had a few awakenings the last few hundred years. This is another change.

Just like Smitty said. How many times do I have to say it

Violence . . . racism are wrong. I am against it.

When I have more time I will answer your points. When I am ready. I have more important items to take care of. Chat with you soon. I will when I can.

Posted 1 year ago #

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