West Seattle Blog...

WSB Forum » Open Discussion

1. AJAX
   Member Profile

   There was a discussion not long ago which has been closed relating to a strange hum people have been experiencing in the area. This caught my interest as I too have been suffering from the hum for several years now. What really peaked my interest is a commonality we share - Nucor Steel.

   I am on the east coast and have been subject to the noise pollution that Nucor puts out since they upgraded their facilities to increase the output, though the last year has been the absolute worst, with the exception of the last several months of it being generally tolerable. Today however, it seems to have come back with a vengeance. I cannot begin to describe the horrible effects that this noise has, lack of ability to sleep being the most troublesome. It's like living with a transformer right up next to your ears.

   I would love to continue this discussion with others. I'm sure most here may not have even considered Nucor as a possibility (it took me a few years to come to the conclusion that they were most likely responsible.)

   I am hoping that by sharing enough information we can work together to force Nucor to reduce the noise to a more accceptable level. I am convinced that they are responsible.

   I would love for others who are bothered by this to chime in. I have more to contribute in terms of Nucor's handling of my complaint, and would be happy to share it.

   The recent discussion which is now closed is:
   http://westseattleblog.com/blog/?p=16000

   Posted 2 years ago #         

2. JanS
   Member Profile

   

   I'm in the Admiral District , just up the hill from Nucor...have never heard the hum., which definitely doesn't mean that it doesn't exist. Glad that you've been in touch with them. Is there also some agency that one would contact?

   Posted 2 years ago #         

3. AJAX
   Member Profile

   Hi Jan.

   Well, technically speaking, the type of noise pollution I strongly suspect they are responsible for is not regulated by any agency. Noise ordinances in our area and the whole country in general for that matter are weak at best and do not address it adequately.

   Similar to Chinese water torture, the decibel levels are generally low (I should say within generally accepted levels - this is a matter of debate), but is the characteristics of the noise is what makes it so disturbing.

   The EPA in the 70's relinquished further study and regulation of noise to the states and localities, if I understand it correctly. In my area, they may as well have just said do whatever you want, since none of the local governments around here have the funds to regulate or enforce adequate protections. I've spoken with my local supervisor about it who says there is nothing he can do, and seemed generally disinterested in helping out.

   This area is very dependent on Nucor for jobs - I think it is the largest manufacturer in the area, so nobody seems to be willing to address it.

   Oh well...

   Posted 2 years ago #         

4. JanS
   Member Profile

   

   So...you're near a Nucor plant on the east coast?

   Posted 2 years ago #         

5. AJAX
   Member Profile

   Yes, about as close as you can get without living inside it, almost...

   Posted 2 years ago #         

6. AJAX
   Member Profile

   I should make perfectly clear that I continually consider every possibility. I always try to keep an open mind, which is why the "Hum" phoenomena fascinates me. I would say that that possibility seems remote, however. Then of course there is the tinnitus angle. Or it could be a rare sensitivity to LFN. But I just don't think so.

   Posted 2 years ago #         

7. ToddinWestwood
   Member Profile

   

   I wonder if they have induction furnaces over there, most likely.

   http://www.atlasfdry.com/inductionfurnaces.htm

   Induction Furnaces

   The principle of induction melting is that a high voltage electrical source from a primary coil induces a low voltage, high current in the metal, or secondary coil. Induction heating is simply a method of transferring heat energy.

   "Induction furnaces are ideal for melting and alloying a wide variety of metals with minimum melt losses, however, little refining of the metal is possible. There are two main types of induction furnace: coreless and channel."

   "The power cubmicle converts the voltage and frequency of main supply, ot that required for electrical melting. Frequencies used in induction melting vary from 50 cycles per second (mains frequency) to 10,000 cycles per second (high frequency). The higher the operating frequency, the greater the maximum amount of power that can be applied to a furnace of given capacity and the lower the amount of turbulence induced.

   When the charge material is molten, the interaction of the magnetic field and the electrical currents flowing in the induction coil produce a stirring action within the molten metal. This stirring action forces the molten metal to rise upwards in the centre causing the characteristic meniscus on the surface of the metal. The degree of stirring action is influenced by the power and frequency applied as well as the size and shape of the coil and the density and viscosity of the molten metal. The stirring action within the bath is important as it helps with mixing of alloys and melting of turnings as well as homogenising of temerature throughout the furnace. Excessive stirring can increase gas pick up, lining wear and oxidation of alloys."

   Posted 2 years ago #         

8. Jeffro
   Member Profile

   At various times I have heard the hum. I haven't heard it since May and I try not to listen for it for fear it might come back. I've decided that it is most likely all in my head, which has helped me to cope.

   A couple articles were also therapeutic for me. First, a BBC article: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/8056284.stm. Second, a boingboing writeup and discussion of that article: http://boingboing.net/2009/05/19/weird-hums-in-the-uk.html.

   Posted 2 years ago #         

9. AJAX
   Member Profile

   Well, Jeffro, there are a lot of people experiencing this that know it is NOT in their head.

   That is not to say that there may not be internal causes, as this is quite possible. But the HUM does exist and is a REAL problem for many people. Most likely a result of industrial noise if you ask me.....

   Posted 2 years ago #         

10. Jeffro
    Member Profile

    I'm not saying it doesn't exist. I have lost sleep to it myself. The sound for me is that of a diesel engine idling right outside.

    I've concluded for myself that there is no getting to the source of the hum, as the noise gets lost in all the other noises the second I open my door. I've decided that it's in my head because it's the easiest way for me to tolerate it. I'll accept that it could be a cruise ship or a nearby plant, but if it were that simple, someone would be able to measure the decibel level, no?

    Posted 2 years ago #         

11. KalHell
    Member Profile

    

    This stuff is bunk, there is zero evidence except anecdotal. Maybe you could call up Jenny McCarthy, or even Oprah to help you on your imaginary cause.

    Posted 2 years ago #         

12. AJAX
    Member Profile

    Imaginary Cause?

    If you have nothing to contribute, please just go away.

    Please don't insult those of us who experience this devastating BS...

    Posted 2 years ago #         

13. JanS
    Member Profile

    

    KalHell...you signed up(on Aug. 01) just to say that? Wow...

    Posted 2 years ago #         

14. JL
    Member Profile

    I find this thread very interesting. I thought the hum I was hearing was strange but couldn't put my finger on its origin. I would be sitting on my patio during the day and it sounded like a very very large bee hive nearby. I'm glad to hear that I'm not the only one!

    Posted 2 years ago #         

15. KalHell
    Member Profile

    

    I do have something to ad. I'm a card caring skeptic, and with extraordinary claims comes extraordinary evidence. Why don't you record the hum, then you could play it on demand, and prove the naysayers wrong? Here is the part when you tell me it can't be recorded because of some magical thinking.
    If you did somehow record this hum you could have a civil suit with its cause. Problem solved.
    Though I truly think you won't make a single move on this.

    One last fix, I have done a lot of research on this in the last 24 hours and if you take some foil and fashion a beanie or helmet if you will, the hum stops.

    Bye the way there is no influx of patients in the ER or fires or crimes committed during a full moon, You do use about 100% of your brain, not ten percent, and Obama was born in Hawaii, not Kenya.

    Good luck.

    Posted 2 years ago #         

16. pigeonmom
    Member Profile

    

    Smells like troll in here.

    Posted 2 years ago #         

17. KalHell
    Member Profile

    

    So asking for evidence is trolling, huh?
    You believe by trying to taint the messenger taints his information. This is a logical fallacy called an Ad hominem attack-

    An ad hominem argument is any that attempts to counter claims or conclusions by attacking the person, rather than addressing the argument itself. True believers will often commit this fallacy by countering the arguments of skeptics by stating that skeptics are closed minded.

    Posted 2 years ago #         

18. Jeannie
    Member Profile

    Yes, the KH troll is definitely a hum-bug.

    Posted 2 years ago #         

19. KalHell
    Member Profile

    

    Hee, Hee. Hum-bug!

    Posted 2 years ago #         

20. lil mo
    Member Profile

    I used to live about a 1 1/2 blocks from the steel mill,and heard the "hum" all the time. It did seem to come and go, which made me think that it may have come from the Port. I suppose it could be either/ or, but I remember being irritated by it on more than one occasion when I would be trying to sleep.

    Posted 2 years ago #         

21. KalHell
    Member Profile

    

    Read the thread that sparked this, the hum is everywhere, people hear, people don't hear it.

    http://westseattleblog.com/blog/?p=16000

    If you can hear it, you can record it.

    That would be the first step.

    Posted 2 years ago #         

22. pigeonmom
    Member Profile

    

    No KH, it was more your verbal diarrhea.

    Posted 2 years ago #         

23. KalHell
    Member Profile

    

    Now, who is the Troll? You're trying to bate me by being personally insulting and not talking on topic. Plus you're invoking unpleasant fecal matter imagery and it's quite uncalled for, and childish.

    Posted 2 years ago #         

24. AJAX
    Member Profile

    Know much about LFE KH? Didn't think so...

    Posted 2 years ago #         

25. Leroniusmonkfish
    Member Profile

    

    Geez "Crap From Hell" looks like you found a new blog to squat.

    Posted 2 years ago #         

26. Leroniusmonkfish
    Member Profile

    

    Sarcasm KalHell...nothin' but sarcasm.

    Posted 2 years ago #         

27. LisaH
    Member Profile

    Topic: Strange Hum heard by many
    These people are not crazy, and this is not a conspiracy.
    I too have heard this hum. Not for a few months though. I've had fans on in my house for several weeks so I don't know if it's still happening.
    My son says it's probably an ultra low frequency from large electromagnetic machinery. Some people might not be able to hear this sound because of it's wavelength. But it IS there.

    Posted 2 years ago #         

28. JoB
    Member Profile

    it may be all in your head, but not the way you think... in the way you perceive the noises you hear.

    I too hear the hum... not tinnitus, but hum... but i hear it from ordinary household appliances... I can't sleep with the fans on high because of it... or some nights the refrigerator will keep me up.. or...

    Other days i hear nothing...

    You can record what i hear with very sensitive recording devices... but not so much with anything most of us will have at hand.

    If you can distract yourself it often melts into the background.

    choose your own distraction ;)

    I read.

    Posted 2 years ago #         

29. KalHell
    Member Profile

    

    Maybe it's this?

    http://www.komonews.com/news/52245617.html

    Posted 2 years ago #         

30. JoB
    Member Profile

    KalHell..

    a boom is a loud sudden noise... it gets your attention and then goes away..

    a hum is a constant thrumming noise... it is monotonous and it doesn't stop ...

    both seem to be unexplained...

    the only things we can be sure of is that there are a lot of sources jumping up and down to let us know it isn't them...

    Posted 2 years ago #         

31. Leroniusmonkfish
    Member Profile

    

    KalHell - The link you provided could possibly be attributed to The Blue Angels...although the article states that the BA's only fly over Lake Washington it was my understanding that the many "Media" flights are conducted somewhere around the Olympic Peninsula...just my 2 cents.

    Posted 2 years ago #         

32. Jeffro
    Member Profile

    Over the past couple nights the hum has come back for me as loud or louder as it did back in April/May, along with the old familiar headache that accompanies it. I wanna believe it is something industrial but have no idea how to track it. I'm 1.5 to 2 miles west of Nucor, but I feel like it could be any large ship or operation on Harbor Island too. As far as I can tell it's not on 24 hours a day, and it seems to go off some time after midnight.

    Dang, and I thought I had it conquered.

    Posted 2 years ago #         

33. Leroniusmonkfish
    Member Profile

    

    I think I've figured it out! After using ultra sensitive sound equipment along with recent infrared sensors mounted to a helicopter the elusive "West Seattle Hum" appears to be emanating from the frosting mixer at the Cupcake Royale.

    Posted 2 years ago #         

34. JoB
    Member Profile

    :)

    Posted 2 years ago #         

35. AJAX
    Member Profile

    Jeffro..

    I live about the same distance from Nucor as you. You're right - it can be difficult to pinpoint because the type of sound we are dealing with are long wave low frequency, which can seem to come from almost anywhere.

    I've learned a lot about their operations though and I'm convinced it is they who are responsible. I presume they have the same type of arc furnace and rolling mill operations - I think it is worthwhile for you to pursue them as one of the more likely culprits, especially given your proximity to them... Perhaps we could share notes..

    Posted 2 years ago #         

36. AJAX
    Member Profile

    Anyone else experience this???

    Posted 2 years ago #         

37. johnnyblegs
    Member Profile

    

    Wow KalHell, you sure have a lot of spare time to voice your opinion on something you obviously don't know anything about. I live right up the road from the factory and haven't heard a thing but that doesn't mean it's not there. I hear things all the time that my wife can't. Different people hear different pitches all the time. Haven't you heard of the cell phone ring that only people under 35 can hear? It all depends on the frequency and each individual. Record the noise? Be quiet! That's ridiculous!

    Posted 2 years ago #         

38. WesCAddle
    Member Profile

    

    I don't hear the hum, but there is a constant screaming in my head. Anyone else have this?

    Posted 2 years ago #         

39. KalHell
    Member Profile

    

    It's completely natural, look-http://www.wired.com/wiredscience/2009/08/hummingearth/

    Posted 2 years ago #         

40. funnygirl28
    Member Profile

    Like PigeonMom, I too live on Pigeon Point and we have to deal with The Hum, the trains, the steel mill, the cement plant, the port, etc. It's so noisy up here -- we had some serious problems with the trains last year but now the bigger issue seems to be the industrial machines, which I believe are at the steel mill, but they're also at the rockery down on West Marginal Way. They make this "beep-beep-beep" whenever they back up, and this goes on 24/7 at this point. Man, it's like having an alarm clock that never goes off. My friends used to make fun of me for complaining about all the noise until they spent the night at my house and learned firsthand how bad it is. The hum is annoying for sure -- it's too bad that industry around here can't find a way to be more sensitive to residents of the area re: noise, particularly at night.

    Posted 2 years ago #         

41. AJAX
    Member Profile

    Funnygirl, I empathize with you. For me it is a little easier to point the finger at one source - I live in a small town where Nucor is probably the largest manufacturer around, and within two miles of my home. I live in an area which used to be very quiet, but now I hear a multitude of different noises from them including the "beep-beep" on occasion, sometimes it is so loud it is as if they are right next door. The worst though is the low frequency noise - it's enough to drive one mad.

    Posted 2 years ago #         

42. JoB
    Member Profile

    There is no doubt that Nucor is probably the cause of some industrial noise...

    but here there is real question if it is THE root cause... there may be many.

    The sound is a an unlikely contributor most days though unless there are tunnels under West Seattle that are as yet undiscovered.

    Posted 2 years ago #         

43. AJAX
    Member Profile

    I realize that Seattle is a large area with many sources of noise pollution. I was merely pointing out Nucor as a one likely source for people to consider.. Steel plants in particular though have a tendency to be one of the worst based on my research.

    Posted 2 years ago #         

44. pigeonmom
    Member Profile

    

    I do not live on Pigeon Point. I used to have a pet pigeon.

    Posted 2 years ago #         

RSS feed for this topic

Reply

You must log in to post.