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Thank you, Tom Rasmussen!

Started 2 years ago by Julie
Latest reply from JanS

Julie
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...for raising the issue of smoking in parks. I expect to see the phrases "nanny state" and "nazis" and "but smoking is legal!" and "why have it when it won't be enforced" and "police have more important things to do" and all the rest of it many times in the discussion following Mr. Rasmussens' query, but I support a ban.

I think many smokers are unaware of how persistent tobacco smoke is in the air, and how widely it spreads, so they don't understand how it can irritate people's lungs in the open air. But it does.

I have emailed Mr. Rasmussen to express my support for the ban. I suggest others who are irritated by tobacco smoke in parks do so, too.

Posted 2 years ago #
KBear
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Well, we've learned from the indoor smoking ban that smokers tend to be litterbugs and law-breakers, so why not give them another law to flout? You're right, it would never be enforced, so smokers have nothing to worry about. You'll have the same amount of smoking in parks. Will you really be happier knowing it's illegal? The indoor smoking ban sort of works, because there's usually a business owner there who's saddled with enforcing it. (Except the 25-foot rule, which no one ever enforces.) I wish people wouldn't smoke around me either, but I think this proposed ban is so unrealistic, it's a waste of time that could be spent on other pressing issues.

Posted 2 years ago #
clark5080
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It is going to be totally uninforceable

Posted 2 years ago #
Yardvark
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Smokers enforce it themselves by changing their ways. Slow it goes, but so it goes.
For the most part, we all stopped littering in the parks and started recycling the same way.
It only needs to be enforced when a smoker is being blatantly ignorant of those around them.
Otherwise, no big deal.

Posted 2 years ago #
KBear
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Washington has one of the lowest rates of smoking in the country. As more people quit smoking, there will be less smoking in Seattle's parks even without a ban. This is a solution looking for a problem. Focus on homelessness or other important issues instead.

Posted 2 years ago #
vincent
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Good thing we wiped out crime so our city council can focus on these important non issues.

Posted 2 years ago #
GenHillOne
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You lost me on this one, Tom. WAY more important things to work on.

And yes, Julie, all those things you put in quotes. Sorry.

Posted 2 years ago #
MrJT
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How about getting all of the offending dogs on leashes first?

When is this frigging City going to learn a simple lesson that we learned as children, "you don't get something new unless you take care of what you have".

Posted 2 years ago #
Diane
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Yes Julie, kudos to Tom Rasmussen; it will happen here, despite the naysayers, none too soon
~
I moved to Wash in 1998, 6 mos after California passed smokefree law; jeez, it took forever to get that law passed here; meanwhile California moved ahead with smokefree parks, beaches, outdoor public spaces, and it’s working great; looking forward to the same here
~
last night at Hiawatha concert there was guy blowing stinky cigar smoke into crowd filled with babies; and always someone with stinky cigar down on Alki; that’s the worst; go down to the beach for breeze of fresh air and yucky cigar smoke
~
the beach and park bans have been brilliantly advocated and passed in California based on littering of cigarette butts on the beach/in the water; they’ve set a very successful precedent being modeled all over the country; yay!!!!!!!!!!
~
Thank you Tom for getting this next step started here, finally

Posted 2 years ago #
Yardvark
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I have my empathy for the nature of addition, and plenty of friends who are caught up, but I got nothing for the folks who choose to actively bring us all down with them.

Health care IS important.

For all of you not following the "more important things", health care IS the subject right now.

Thank you for properly addressing this issue, Rasmussen, and dealing with the difficult approaches to the more important things we're all debating right now, locally and nationally.

I'd rather address health care from the beauty of the parks, then from our respective hospital beds.

Posted 2 years ago #
JanS
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funny...I didn't really think this was an issue...and then...went to a performance of Shakespeare in the Park at Lincoln Park this afternoon (King John...great fun)...and some guy behind us lights up a damned cigar. All those trees, that fresh air...and cigar smoke...rude is an understatement.

Posted 2 years ago #
GenHillOne
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Jan, I'm still not a fan of this particular proposal, but that's not cool. Maybe we could just pass a law against rudeness ;) - it would take care of all kinds of issues!

Posted 2 years ago #
Yardvark
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Why bother with a law?
Just skip to the enforcement.
Or you just ask nicely him to put it out.
But a creative punishment would be much more fun.

Posted 2 years ago #
Julie
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>Or you just ask nicely him to put it out.

Sometimes this works. More often I find such requests ignored.

>But a creative punishment would be much more fun.

It's not really my style, but I have heard proposals involving air cannons and flammable aerosols.... Note: I DO NOT advocate this, except as a fantasy when you receive an impassive stare or rude comment following the aforesaid polite request.

Posted 2 years ago #
JanS
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Gen Hill One...I'm all for that.

Julie...getting up and making a stink (hehe) about his cigar would have disrupted the live play taking place in the meadow, and those listening. Sort of like the guy who showed up with his dog on a leash...sat about 15-20 feet behind us, and immediately let his dog OFF the leash to run amongst the crowd, most of whom were sitting on the ground, some having picnics. Now...maybe, along with that law against rudeness, we need a mandatory rule about teaching common sense in grade school.
The cigar guy wasn't the only smoker we encountered in the park today. Tow young women who walked by us on the path were also smoking...and you can bet they put their cigarette butts out on the ground...and we haven't had rain in how long? There's another danger, besides just inhaling their leftovers. Things are very dry out there right now...people need to use their brains !

Maybe we should all take to carrying squirt guns...bright red ones, bright yellow ones..and when we encounter a rude smoker, just put the thing being smoked out ourselves :)

Posted 2 years ago #
JoB
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i like the squirt gun idea... super soakers:)

oops.

Posted 2 years ago #
bluebird
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While you're at it, lets close off the parking lots. I don't want your stinking emissions all over my picnic. That goes for the ferry line too. Can't walk or bike to the park, you shouldn't be there. That would be a cold picnic lunch, btw. Don't even think of firing up that all American BBQ with your family. If any of that briquette smoke drifts my way I'm calling the police.

Edit: and one singular study does show second hand smoke is as dangerous outdoors as indoors, IF you are within 18 inches. This means a line, or an outdoor cafe setting. The same study showed it dissipates almost immediately and there are no measurable amounts in the air once the cigarette is out (or the person passes you).

Posted 2 years ago #
JanS
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bluebird...health things aside...it's rude to assume that I want to smell your stinky cigar when I sit in a meadow watching an outdoor play. Yes, we don't live in a perfect world, I totally understand that...but whatever ever happened to just being considerate of others around you?

I once worked for an airline reservation office where I had to sit in a small room with a computer..needed a repair, repair guy had big stogie hanging out of his mouth. I actually lied and asked him to put it out because I was preggers and it was making me nauseous...it was, but, I wasn't preggers.

It was the middle of Lincoln Park for goodness sake..you can't wait until you get back to your car to smoke? And, as I said before, it's very, very dry out there, it just takes a spark of ash to maybe start something bigger.Are we so into me, me, me that we can't see what's around us? I don't buy into "How dare you find fault with what I'm doing..it legal, it's my right, and I will do it wherever I please, even in your face" Sorry, it doesn't compute with me..

Posted 2 years ago #
bluebird
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JanS, health things aside, it would be very rude to light up while sitting in a crowd together. Just as it would be for someone to talk loudly on a phone or a parent to allow their baby to scream and cry during the same play. Either you or someone belonging to the production should ask them to take it elsewhere.

But to ban all smoking in a HUGE outdoor park? If it is for health, that beach bonfire on Alki or grilling burgers with charcoal is putting out a whole lot more smoke than one little cigarette. I'm just asking for consistency. It seems to be more about a habit we don't like, than reality.

PS I don't smoke. And if I come across someone who is and they were there first, I keep walking. If they sit by me, it's as simple as "do you mind smoking somewhere else, I'm allergic". Very, very few people are intentionally belligerent. It's more likely they're just oblivious and would be happy to oblige. If not, they probably wouldn't give a sh*t about a dumb law.

Posted 2 years ago #
JoB
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bluebird..
you are right .. this is the fly in the ointment...

"Very, very few people are intentionally belligerent. It's more likely they're just oblivious and would be happy to oblige. If not, they probably wouldn't give a sh*t about a dumb law. "

I am allergic.. and the residue on their clothes often triggers a coughing spree that makes people ask if i am ok in a really concerned voice...

they generally continue smoking while they pound on my back and i struggle to catch my breath ...

Sometimes you just don't want to see what you don't want to see.

Posted 2 years ago #
JanS
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bluebird...I can agree with you to a point. I got there early to get a prime spot...cigar guy got there as the production was beginning. He's 10-15 feet behind me. I think what gets me is that I, being the non-smoker,the offended, have to do something, that the onus falls on me. How about him being aware of his surroundings and thinking before he lights up that it may not be the appropriate place?I think that's what a lot of us are asking. It's not that difficult to understand that perhaps his "habit" should be fed farther away from people. Yes, I am a reformed smoker...haven't since 1982. And talking about this may make one more person aware that they may be offending someone, so thanks for the conversation...

Posted 2 years ago #
HunterG
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Seattle is one of the most literate and educated major cities in the United States this INCLUDES smokers.

The majority of smokers understand that their habit is offensive to others and do all they can to try to keep it away from those people. There are unfortunately those who just do not give a Sh#t.

If you do encounter one of the rude ones, try being up front and just asking them to go elsewhere, or to put it out. Making another law that will not be recognized or enforced (like the leash law in public parks) is ridiculous.

--------something that needs to be addressed:

"we've learned from the indoor smoking ban that smokers tend to be litterbugs and law-breakers..."

Why? Because they smoke? Who the hell do you think you are that you can judge a group of people that way? Law-breakers? Really?

My apologies for singling you out, KBear, but your comment really struck a nerve. Judging, an entire group of people like that is just as offensive as blowing cigarette smoke into a baby's face.

Posted 2 years ago #
bluebird
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JanS, you're still talking about something that is rude and unfair. Not something that requires a law. It does suck that everyone isn't conscientious. And that you have to be the one to act on it. It isn't comfortable and I find myself getting mad at times rather than just talking to someone.

But really, how many of us are paying attention to every little thing we do and how it may be perceived by another? We're doing twelve different things in our minds and several more in real time. A kind request can often go a lot farther than the glare and bitch stance.

I think I'm just getting tired of the "I don't like something, lets make a law forbidding it".

It seems all food eaters are the biggest litterers, we should ban eating at parks. And if I see one more rolled up disposable diaper in the shrubs. Babies be gone! And god forbid, the dog poop dilemma. And what are they doing having a play in the park anyway? I go there for a quiet place to read outside.

Instead of conversing, we're all turning into the guy from last weeks' thread who wants to sit in the park filming everyone who breaks the law.

You're just not going to be able to outlaw jerk, and I'd really hate to see our police rush to the park to ticket a smoker. And if you need a law to empower yourself, "you can't do that it's illegal!", I think you may have more pressing problems.

Posted 2 years ago #
JayDee
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OK, I am anti-smoking; too many relatives have died of smoking-related lung problems and it is a gross addiction. What really bugs me are the butts -- C'mon, if I drank a beer and dashed the bottle on the ground, everyone would think I was nuts. But why is it acceptable that the vast majority of smokers put their ciggy's out on the ground and leave the butt? Or worse, toss the still smoldering butt in the street and jump on the bus.

My personal opinion aside, I think this is just another version of the nanny city gone bonkers. Another plastic-bag law distraction by our city council that ignores the real waste in the city (SDOT) while trying to regulate things that while beneficial either are unenforceable (smoking in parks) or not a problem (the bag fee proposal). Is the circus coming to town -- maybe the city council should ban circus animals? (Wait, they already tried and gave up on that).

Posted 2 years ago #
JanS
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bluebird...I agree...a law would be...well..I suppose, unenforceable...except for us with squirt guns ;-) And if we outlaw jerk, we're all in trouble at times - lol...

jaydee...leave the circus animals alone...but...their poop? that's another thread ;-)

now about that play...it was great fun. There was another this afternoon "Comedy of Errors"..didn't make it to that one, but if you all can at another venue, do go...it's wonderful fun....just don't take your cee-gars.. :)

Posted 2 years ago #