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51. cjboffoli
    Member Profile

    

    Cigarette smoke is a highly concentrated miasma of toxic chemicals that can be harmful outside when non-smokers are within 30 feet of a smoker. It is much more concentrated than other sources of pollution in the ambient air. A few smokers together make even more smoke ad thus increase the concentration of toxins. States and municipalities across the US and abroad are passing outdoor smoking bans (including in parks and on beaches) so that non-smokers do not have to be exposed to sidestream smoke outside because it is harmful. Even New York City is discussing a smoking ban in its public parks. In some cities in California it is now illegal to smoke anywhere on public streets. Again, the Surgeon General has clearly stated that NO amount of exposure to cigarette smoke is safe. Thousands of non-smokers die every year from exposure to it. So I support the efforts of people who want to have a choice not to breathe this toxic smoke.

    Posted 2 years ago #         

52. Leroniusmonkfish
    Member Profile

    

    Of course no amount of cigarette smoke is safe. Neither are the emissions from your car, school bus, cellphone, aircraft, wood burning stove or laser printer for your photographic print(s) as the average printer releases toner particles that can get deep into the lungs and cause respiratory problems. And I'm a big offender in that meat = methane (goodbye bacon!), etc...

    "Over 24 million children ride the bus to school every day and as a result are regularly exposed to harmful diesel exhaust emissions. Major components of diesel exhaust include carbon monoxide, sulphur dioxide, formaldehyde and tiny soot particles that carry substances called polynuclear aromatic hydrocarbons.

    The U.S. Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) classifies diesel emissions as a "likely carcinogen." Diesel emissions are estimated to be responsible for 70 percent of the cancer risk arising from air pollution, according to the California Air Resources Board. Dangers from diesel exhaust can range from respiratory illnesses including asthma and bronchitis to lung cancer and heart disease."

    So please, can't I just have that one last smoke in peace...

    Posted 2 years ago #         

53. acemotel
    Member Profile

    

    Leronius, you may have more luck in any other country in the world, which I hope the no-smoking true believers do not visit (especially China). The zeal and passion of some no-smoking people sometimes reminds me of the pro-lifers. They are right, end of conversation. And if they are right, it means you are wrong. Period. There is no room for tolerance, analysis, understanding. That is one lesson I take from this conversation.

    Posted 2 years ago #         

54. ellenater
    Member Profile

    

    acemotel,

    I agree completely!

    Posted 2 years ago #         

55. Leroniusmonkfish
    Member Profile

    

    I'm gonna go outside and have a smoke. Thank you very much. I SMOKE!!!

    Posted 2 years ago #         

56. maplesyrup
    Member Profile

    

    I don't smoke but I voted against the ban.

    A very reasonable compromise could have been reached- allow bars to apply for a license that would allow them to permit smoking inside. But no, the authors of the legislation took smoking as close to being illegal as they could.

    So this thread provides a great example of the law of unintended consequences. If you hadn't forced everyone outside, you wouldn't have to walk through the smoke.

    Good job, nanny staters.

    Posted 2 years ago #         

57. bluebird
    Member Profile

    Besides outright stubborn righteousness, the problem is also one of combining fact with opinion and the lack of simple common sense.

    Homer, FWIW, I compared being in traffic right behind a bus, not cars in general. Stop misquoting me and assigning various positions I haven't taken. As you can see by the above post, diesel exhaust, is indeed harmful.

    And, NO ONE is saying cigarette smoke is not harmful. However, you need to be within 18 inches downwind for the worst effects. Within 6 feet downwind for clearly still dangerous levels and beyond that it's essentially negligible. Where someone pulled this 30 feet line would be news to the Standard University researchers which studied this in depth.

    The outdoor bans are based on research culled from stationary settings. ie, a sidewalk cafe table or park bench where you sit down next to a smoker. Possibly worth consider guidelines, on a case by case basis. Such as the CA city that decided to ban smoking in lines.

    The only issue I have here is the blatant anger and rudeness being expressed by the non-smokers when it's hardly a great burden on your lifestyle to walk six feet around a smoker you come upon.

    Posted 2 years ago #         

58. Fancy Nan
    Member Profile

    

    Cancer cures smoking!

    Posted 2 years ago #         

59. Homer
    Member Profile

    

    Ha, bluebird, read cjboffoli's post as diesel is no where near as bad as the smoke coming out of a cigarette.

    Eh, whatever, I like Fancy Nan's comment....sad but true...

    Posted 2 years ago #         

60. ellenater
    Member Profile

    

    I am relieved that there are a nice group of non zealots on here. Cheers to you!

    and BTW, today is one year of no smoking for me. I miss it a lot of days but am glad I quit. I always wished I could be one of those people who smoke occasionally, but alas...

    Posted 2 years ago #         

61. villagegreen
    Member Profile

    

    ellenater - congrats on one year! Add me to the list of non-zealots. Ever since college I would smoke occasionally (mainly in bars), but finally stopped for good about two years ago. I was unable to hold a beer in my hand without feeling the overwhelming urge, but amazingly the urge is now completely gone - fingers crossed it doesn't come back. :)

    There are just so many more important things to fight against than banning cigarettes from all public spaces. I realize there are those that have lost loved ones to cigarette related cancer and the smell of cigarette smoke may bring back very painful memories. However, your bad associations shouldn't inhibit others from making their own choices. Life isn't fair; You can't always avoid all things that annoy you.

    I guess it boils down to whether or not you honestly believe walking by smokers on the street is going to cause irrevocable health damage. I find that extremely hard to believe. More than likely most people are just annoyed that they have to smell something they find offensive. If we're going to talk about offensive smells, I'd much rather rail against those inconsiderate knuckle draggers who always seem to be standing next to me at packed music venues when they totally let rip. Now that's just uncalled-for...but should we outlaw it?

    Posted 2 years ago #         

62. cjboffoli
    Member Profile

    

    As much as I wish people wouldn't get addicted to cigarettes and fall prey to multinational corporations that have conspired to get and keep them addicted I'm all for letting consenting adults do whatever they like. However, people who don't want to smoke or breathe smoke shouldn't be forced to on sidewalks or in sidewalk cafés. I think I'm more inclined to believe the actual science about the real dangers of exposure to cigarette smoke as opposed to the random opinions of WSB Forums members and habitual smokers who obviously have a need to justify their habit. Sure there are other sources of pollution. But to compare them directly to cigarette smoke is simply fallacious logic.

    Posted 2 years ago #         

63. Fancy Nan
    Member Profile

    

    Emphysema is another very effective cure for smoking.

    Posted 2 years ago #         

64. bluebird
    Member Profile

    And yet, not a single link to science, just your random WSB forum opinion and false information passed off as truth.

    Here's your double standard on deisel vs. tobacco link:

    http://www.junkscience.com/news/diesel.html

    Here's your Stanford University study showing the danger is most concentrated at 18 INCHES. Still dangerous at 6 feet, and negligible past that.

    And....

    "If you're exposed MULTIPLE times to MULTIPLE cigarettes OVER SEVERAL HOURS in an outdoor pub, it would be possible to get a daily average of 35 micrograms or more, which exceeds the current EPA outdoor standard."

    This is the definitive study. But do you really care about science? Complaining about breathing 10 seconds in passing on a side walk, makes you nothing but a complainer.

    http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2007/05/070502181454.htm

    Posted 2 years ago #         

65. bluebird
    Member Profile

    And before you start taking quotes from the same article to say, see, see, told you it was dangerous. I'll repeat, no one is saying or even implying second hand smoke is safe. I'm the one who original brought up that standing or sitting next to a smoker would be dangerous, such as at a cafe or park bench.

    What we're talking about though, is passing someone on the sidewalk. Have some more fried bacon and liver pate and chill.

    Posted 2 years ago #         

66. JoB
    Member Profile

    so..it's ok for people to smoke. but not in public places and not on public streets...

    Is it time to grant disability for those addicted to cigarettes so they can smoke at home?

    but wait.. what if you live next door to a smoker????

    Perhaps we could clear off Mercer Island and let the smokers live... and work... and play...there :))))

    Posted 2 years ago #         

67. jamminj
    Member Profile

    "Complaining about breathing 10 seconds in passing on a side walk, makes you nothing but a complainer. "
    .
    ok, I'll tell my 13 year old with asthma that's she's just a 'complainer'.
    .
    "Even brief exposure can result in upper airway changes in healthy persons and can lead to more frequent and more asthma attacks in children who already have asthma."
    .
    U.S. Department of Health and Human Services. The Health Consequences of Involuntary Exposure to Tobacco Smoke: A Report of the Surgeon General. U.S. Department of Health and Human Services, Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, National Center for Chronic Disease Prevention and Health Promotion, Office on Smoking and Health, 2006.

    Posted 2 years ago #         

68. bluebird
    Member Profile

    A parent who doesn't guide their asthmatic child around a known trigger, just to prove a point that smokers have no right to be on a sidewalk, has bigger problems than worrying about someone calling you a complainer.

    I'm allergic to 47 known substances and have to carry an epi-pen with me everywhere. Have been hospitalized twice for anaphylactic shock. Is it your problem to worry about what my triggers are. NO! It's mine. What on earth is so frickin' difficult about stepping around someone? There is really going to be much bigger challenges in life and if this issue sends everyone over the deep edge, I really worry about how anyone's kid is going to cope with the world.

    Posted 2 years ago #         

69. chef
    Member Profile

    I am a 16 year ex-two pack per day smoker (I quit Jan. 19th, 1993) and I have to admit that I have become a vehement anti-smoker now. (And no - I don't have lung disease or cancer). Since I quit, cigarettes absolutely STINK to me - in fact that smell makes me nauseous. I hadn't been to a bar in years until they passed the smoking ban, and it was a real treat to be able to take my sweetie to a dance or play pool without stripping off my clothes in the garage and taking a shower when I got home to get rid of the smell.

    However, now I'm inundated with smoke at the doors of lots of buildings around town because of the smokers milling about. I too have to try to hold my breath and hope that my clothes don't pick up the smell in the cloud that's present when I try to walk into the doorway.

    My solution - I tell the managers of a store or building where smokers are lurking out front that if they don't enforce the 25 ft rule in front of their businesses that I will take pictures with my cell phone and forward them to code enforcement. It usually only takes the managers a few seconds to make the smokers move.

    Maybe instead of bitching on this blog more people should demand that businesses enforce the 25 ft limit or they will be reported - in other words - be part of the solution.

    Posted 2 years ago #         

70. jamminj
    Member Profile

    "A parent who doesn't guide their asthmatic child around a known trigger, "

    I never said that I don't manage properly the health issue, I do. But don't tell me that a few seconds of second hand smoke doesn't have health issues. And there are instances where we have no choice when we enter into a facility, and we don't complain about the 25ft rule.
    .

    Posted 2 years ago #         

71. GenHillOne
    Member Profile

    This seems like a good time to bring back the idea of "unintended consequences" to poorly thought-out laws. Perhaps that's where the indignation and anger should be directed. My guess is that most who are upset about smokers outside also wanted them to be banned inside. It's a reminder to consider the what-ifs next time we step into the virtual polling place. I can think of an awful lot of potential consequences of the issues we'll be voting on soon. Food for thought.

    Posted 2 years ago #         

72. bluebird
    Member Profile

    Chef, jamminj, I totally agree. The law passed. Majority rules. No one should have to walk through a cloud of smoke to gain entrance to a restaurant, etc. And if people are not abiding by that statute, by all means, tell the business owner.

    Standing in the doorway is a much different beast then the generic "smokers on the sidewalk are evil and must die" mantra being espoused here.

    There is a universal mind set in many of us, that the world exist for my needs alone, and should only accommodate me. No one talks to each other anymore. No one says I'm allergic, sensitive, or what have you, would you mind moving away from space A. We just get mad. Solves nothing.

    Posted 2 years ago #         

73. cjboffoli
    Member Profile

    

    Bluebird: Who the hell are you to decide for me what amount of pollution of concentrated toxins you are entitled to make me breathe?! Honestly. It shouldn't surprise me when people are addicted to something what lengths they will go to in order to justify their perceived right to do something. I'm not addicted to cigarettes so I don't have a vested interest in going to great lengths to justify how much my lethal habit other around me should endure. The fact that people are still splitting hairs over the science of this is ridiculous. For the third time, the Surgeon General has said that NO AMOUNT OF EXPOSURE TO CIGARETTE SMOKE IS SAFE. NONE. And the Stanford study does not say that exposure to cigarette smoke beyond 18 inches is not harmful. In fact, the science is overwhelming that the effects of even brief exposure to cigarette smoke can have dramatic effects on the heart and lungs.

    I really hope you can someday manage to break your addiction to lethal cigarettes in time for your lungs to recover so you don't end up as one of those pathetic people sitting in the designated smoking section sucking on a cigarettes whilst simultaneously breathing with an oxygen tank. I hope you will not be like my grandparents who died in their 50's from a lifetime addiction to cigarettes.

    You can remain in this forum for as long as you like, ridiculing those who wish to not be exposed to sidestream smoke. But the fact remains that the tide is turning against cigarette smoke. States and municipalities in increasing numbers are passing smoking bans, including in outdoor areas because of the REAL dangers of exposure to incredibly toxic cigarette smoke. In fact, to date more than 700 state and local governments have passed laws restricting cigarette smoke OUTSIDE. Write them all off as over-sensitive whiners. Claim you're right and everyone else is wrong. Thankfully the number of smokers is on the decline and the number of people who are realizing the real dangers of even brief exposure to cigarette smoke is increasing. There is absolutely no inherent right to smoke. But the basis for the right to breathe clean air has existed for centuries.

    Smoke 'em if you got 'em if you must. But please smoke them the hell away from me.

    Posted 2 years ago #         

74. bluebird
    Member Profile

    No worries. Don't smoke.

    Posted 2 years ago #         

75. JoB
    Member Profile

    I am not a smoker.. in fact, cigarette smoke is one of my asthma triggers and i am allergic to cigarette residue...

    but as someone else stated.. that is my problem.

    Loud high pitched noises are a migraine trigger for me too.. but i don't see anyone enforcing noise ordinances in public places... and i was pretty much crucified for mentioning shrieking children on this forum...

    so i'm guessing we all agree that is my problem too.

    This world isn't a private playground for any of us... and it isn't anyone else's job to make things work for you.

    That said, a little consideration goes a long way.. even on this forum.

    Posted 2 years ago #         

76. ellenater
    Member Profile

    

    Thanks Villagegreen.

    I think the point is, don't be a zealot about it. A lot of you sound like jerks. You just do. You come off as really self righteous and intolerant.

    And I do agree that for MOST people, walking past a smoker for ten seconds is NOT going to impede your health. It's just not be honest with yourself. You guys are acting like you are (literally) mentally retarded. Like you can;t figure out a way to get past the horrible, horrible smoke. I just have a really hard time believing that this isn't just self righteousness as work.

    I also completely agree with maplesyrup. I would also have voted against the ban. It's not the best solution. It would be better to let the individual establishments decide, pay a tax, and then patrons could decide where to go based on that.

    Quitting smoking is ridiculously hard. It is one of the hardest things I have ever done. I still want to smoke. If I could smoke and not get sick, I would do it in a heartbeat. I am the opposite of Chef. I find it relaxing and I enjoy the smell sometimes. But I watched my dad die of lung cancer and it was brutal. I will not do that to my child. I am a lot healthier now, also. Most days, I do not want to smoke but some days I do. To listen to people scapegoat smokers annoys the crap out of me. You can quote your stats. all day long. You still sound really ignorant.

    Posted 2 years ago #         

77. texas
    Member Profile

    #73 just WOW. The vitriol is totally inappropriate. on any subject.

    Posted 2 years ago #         

78. Fancy Nan
    Member Profile

    

    The good new is, smokers are a dying breed…. literally.

    Posted 2 years ago #         

79. texas
    Member Profile

    People are dying....and that is good news? What is wrong with this thread?

    Posted 2 years ago #         

80. jamminj
    Member Profile

    "It would be better to let the individual establishments decide, pay a tax, and then patrons could decide where to go based on that."
    .
    WHY??? so just pay a tax and you can forgo health regulations??? pay a tax to make the KC health examiner go away??? really? You sure you want to eat the food of an establishment that paid extra fees for them to look the other way?
    .
    Smokers, past and present, will never understand the effects of second hand smoke. To them it's no big deal, and anyone who complains is just a whiner. That's because you have lived with it for years/decades since you were a teenager.
    .
    Whats incredulous is that many smokers even now smoke outside of their houses, realizing the harm it causes in their own homes.
    .
    buy they feel that it takes a pack a day to cause harm, no it doesnt. it takes much much less than that for a person to feel its effects.
    .
    you can smoke and kill yourself all you want, but don't be surprised when people don't want to partake in your choice.

    Posted 2 years ago #         

81. texas
    Member Profile

    It's like saying:
    The good news is, gang members are a dying breed...literally
    The good news is, fat people are a dying breed...literally
    The good news is, Caucasians are a dying breed...literally
    The good news is, alcoholics are a dying breed...literally
    The good news is, cancer patients are a dying breed...literally
    The good news is, heroin addicts are a dying breed...literally

    How easy it is to de-personalize others! and with such casual breeziness! It's......unspeakably sad.

    Posted 2 years ago #         

82. Fancy Nan
    Member Profile

    

    Oops, sorry. I just realized that this thread was about “somking”, not “smoking.” “Somking” is perfectly safe, it does not cause your teeth to turn yellow, it does not make you stink, it does not make people throw up when they kiss you, it does not kill people, and it does not irritate people who do not partake in the habit. Sorry for the misunderstanding.

    Posted 2 years ago #         

83. Leroniusmonkfish
    Member Profile

    

    "stripping off my clothes in the garage and taking a shower when I got home to get rid of the smell"

    Wow! As long as there isn't a burn ban going on I would suggest throwing your clothes into the fireplace...no wait, then you would be sending airborne carcinogens to your neighbors.

    Cjboffoli - "Who the hell are you to decide for me what amount of pollution of concentrated toxins you are entitled to make me breathe?!"

    What??? You live a "Green" life everyday and nothing YOU do causes any harm to the planet or others? Gimme a fricken break. Before the digital age of photography how many chemicals did you expose yourself and family/friends to or wash down the drain only creating mutant King Crabs, 3-eyed fish, etc...

    http://www.trueart.info/photography.htm

    It's a big world. Just walking past someone smoking isn't the least of our worries....DAMN!!!

    Posted 2 years ago #         

84. JoB
    Member Profile

    how long can you hold your breath?

    if you can't hold your breath long enough to pass a smoker on the street, you need to see a doctor now. smokers on the street are the least of your problems.

    As for the residue, you have to hang out with smokers for a while in an enclosed space for residue to collect on your clothing and your skin.

    chances are if you are walking down the street.. you will have aired yourself out by the time you get home.

    You are in more danger of needing to clean your clothes and shower to remove unwanted scent from walking through the front entrance to most major department stores during their perfume promotions... never mind how long you will have to hold your breath to enter the store and avoid scent overload.

    As far as that goes, the cologne overload from walking down West Seattle streets on a friday or saturday night is enough to stop my breath... and i am not alone.

    I would bet that most of you complaining about the air pollution from smokers in outdoor spaces have no patience for the person who has to leave because your choice of scents has made it impossible for them to remain.

    lets take some deep breaths if we can and remember that each of us does something that makes it a little harder for someone next to us to get by...

    and they have as much right to get by as we do.

    Posted 2 years ago #         

85. cjboffoli
    Member Profile

    

    Around 400,000 Americans die annually from cigarette smoking making it the leading cause of preventable death. About 50,000 of those are non-smokers who die from secondhand smoke exposure. I guess those folks are just whiners who shouldn't complain because there are other sources of air pollution which apparently makes cigarette smoke OK.

    Each day an estimated 1,100 teens become regular, daily smokers. Between one-third and one-half will eventually die of this addiction. Around the world about 5.4 million people are killed by tobacco smoke every year. According to the WHO, a current or former smoker dies every 6.5 seconds. In China about 2,000 people a day die from smoking. The WHO estimates that smoking will kill more than 8 million people annually by 2030. Tobacco use will kill 1 billion people in the 21st Century if current trends continue.

    A dying demographic to be sure.

    The California Air Resrouces Board did a study in 2006 in which they measured random outdoor tobacco smoke concentrations outside airports, on college campuses, in government centers, office complexes and amusement parks. Their conclusions were that in these "typical outdoor locations, Californians may be exposed to OTS levels as high as indoor concentrations."

    Some here dismiss the significance of walking through a cloud of smoke for a few seconds if you pass, say, Shadowland on a given night. But if you spend any amount of time walking around this city it is likely not the only time in the course of a day that you will walk through a cloud of cigarette smoke. As indoor smoking bans have moved cigarette smoking onto the street it is nearly impossible to walk into any building (airport, courthouse, hospital, office building) without breathing sidestream smoke with toxic chemicals in much higher concentrations than other sources of pollution in the ambient air. I expect that is why there has been an increase in legislation regulating cigarette smoke in outdoor spaces.

    Posted 2 years ago #         

86. MargL
    Member Profile

    Has anyone managed to ever walk past Brewsky's in White Center without having to pass thru a cloud of cigarette smoke from the half-dozen smokers clustered around the door there? The bench in front of Full Tilt is also popular with the smokers...
    My small daughter might think it's a game to hold her breath for as long as she can while trying to get from the car to the ice cream place, but. she. should. not. have. to. do. that. period.

    Posted 2 years ago #         

87. maplesyrup
    Member Profile

    

    "It would be better to let the individual establishments decide, pay a tax, and then patrons could decide where to go based on that."
    .
    WHY??? so just pay a tax and you can forgo health regulations??? pay a tax to make the KC health examiner go away??? really? You sure you want to eat the food of an establishment that paid extra fees for them to look the other way?

    ___________

    jamminj, my idea was that a bar could apply for a license to allow smoking in their building. There would be an application fee and the building would need extra ventilation and might have a stricter fire code. It's not that different than a cigar bar.

    That way if you want to smoke in a bar or own a bar that caters to smokers, you can. And if you don't like working in a smoky bar, you can work in any of the smoke-free establishments since they are going to represent the vast majority.

    I don't understand why that is so unreasonable.

    Posted 2 years ago #         

88. texas
    Member Profile

    Rigid intolerance comes in all stripes. It just makes people want to run away. cjboff, I don't know who you are writing to. The converted already know all that. The smokers know it too. The tolerant aren't going to change just because you said so. Taking a rigidly intolerant attitude doesn't change anything. Maybe you need to feel as if you are an expert on some topic, but information about toxins in cigarette smoke is readily available in scientific journals, a far more credible source than an online forum. The attitude (+anger) is damaging, both personally and professionally. IMO

    Posted 2 years ago #         

89. Fancy Nan
    Member Profile

    

    My five-year-old daughter holds her nose when she walks by those stinky smokers outside of the restaurants along California. It’s adorable and sends the message to those nasty smokers that they stink!

    Posted 2 years ago #         

90. JoB
    Member Profile

    Fancy Nan

    Your five year old shows a lot of sense

    Posted 2 years ago #         

91. Leroniusmonkfish
    Member Profile

    

    Cute Fancy Nan...just like all your other posts. You already kicked "smokers" to the curb and that's where they smoke now. Deal with it.

    Posted 2 years ago #         

92. GenHillOne
    Member Profile

    lol, JoB, I might have to disagree with you on that - according to some here, the evil smokers all but EAT small children, so that might not be wise ;)

    Posted 2 years ago #         

93. Leroniusmonkfish
    Member Profile

    

    Mmmmm...barbecued children.

    Posted 2 years ago #         

94. bluebird
    Member Profile

    Careful Leroniusmonkfish. BBQ is a known carcinogenic, especially when combined with beer. As alcohol is what's known as a "promoter" and increases the health risks.

    I also love the mom worried about getting her kid into the ice cream store. What with heart disease being the number one cause of death, and the obesity rate among children rising so rapidly.

    Posted 2 years ago #         

95. Fancy Nan
    Member Profile

    

    Bluebird is back! I thought I smelled an ashtray.

    Posted 2 years ago #         

96. Leroniusmonkfish
    Member Profile

    

    So happy that you came back too Fancy Nan...considering that you have been here for all of 6 days now you are indeed a "breath of fresh air"...NOT

    Posted 2 years ago #         

97. SarahScoot
    Member Profile

    

    Yes, leronius, because that's how we decide if someone is worthy of commenting on a topic: how long they've been a member of the forums. Early-adopter forum members can say whatever they please, but those who have been here less than 30 days better not express any opinion, as obviously they're trolls!
    [/sarcasm]

    Posted 2 years ago #         

98. Leroniusmonkfish
    Member Profile

    

    Nice scooter Sarah. Were you a "Mod" at one time?

    Fancy Nan can post to her hearts content...as I'm sure she will.

    Posted 2 years ago #         

99. texas
    Member Profile

    Fancy Nan will only be happy when all smokers are dead.

    Posted 2 years ago #         

100. Fancy Nan
     Member Profile

     

     Not true. I'll be happy when they stop stinking up the air, anyway that happens.

     Posted 2 years ago #         

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