WSB Forum » Open Discussion

(153 posts)

Somking Outside Bars

  • Started 2 years ago by itneverrainsinwestseattle
  • Latest reply from Leroniusmonkfish

  1. itneverrainsinwestseattle
    Member Profile

    Smoking! Really?

    Back in the 50's people used to smoke because it looked cool and gave you a buzz. They didn't know it causes cancer...ED...lots of health problems.

    So...I don't smoke. And if you do smoke, go ahead; but, don't blow it in my face.

    I consider myself a peaceful and progressive individual, so when some a*s inadvertently blows smoke in my face I just get angry and walk away. I can only take solace in the fact that smokers blood pressure spikes, while mine falls as I mellow out.

    When I walk past a bar (like the one going in on Admiral Way between Calif. and 42nd) I will inevitably have to walk through second hand smoke. The sidewalk is narrow.

    So what do I do? Cross Admiral Street just to avoid the bar? Or, should I just politely ask drunk smokers to mind where they blow their smoke? Ha :(

    Or should I just accept it?

    Posted 2 years ago #         
  2. If we're out walking at night, we cross the street whenever possible to avoid smoking crowds outside bars.

    Little-known fact relevant to some of our recent celebrity deaths: Smoking is a huge risk factor for pancreatic cancer. Few cancers are as ugly, horrific, ravaging as that one. My mom was 2+ packs a day dating back to age 15 and since it was way too late for help when she was diagnosed, she didn't even quit until she left her Morgan Junction apartment for the hospice where she chose to spend her final weeks, and the Fentanyl made her forget. Brutal. I smoked for six years, back when you were supposed to be sitting at your typewriter in newsrooms with an ashtray right next to it. But I digress. Good topic, I vote for "cross the street" or else hold your breath and walk fast.

    Posted 2 years ago #         
  3. christopherboffoli
    Member Profile

    There was an interesting study done by Stanford University in early 2008 that demonstrated that cigarette smoke can be harmful to non-smokers even outside. The smoke does not not dissipate in the air very well. If you are close to a smoker, breathing the smoke can be as bad as being in enclosed spaces. I guess that's why a number of municipalities and states have already passed or are considering outdoor smoking bans.

    What I've also learned is that the smoke can be even more harmful for bystanders than it is for the actual smoker as the person smoking is inhaling the smoke through a filter whereas someone around them is breathing the smoke directly. And when a smoker drags on the cigarette, the tobacco burns at a hotter temperature, essentially burning cleaner than the smoldering, smoky emission as he or she just holds it in their hand. I have seen studies that have shown that blood vessels start to constrict within seconds of being exposed to tobacco smoke. Heart attack rates have dropped dramatically in every place that smoking bans have been enacted. The Surgeon General has said that no amount of exposure to cigarette smoke is safe.

    Cigarette smoke contains thousands of chemicals including about 50 known carginogens, such as benzene, ammonia, acetone, tar, nicotine, arsenic and carbon monoxide. While any city will have pollutants in the air and life is not risk free, cigarette smoke (even outside) can be much more concentrated and more harmful to health than the ambient air. But because people cannot see the harm immediately, and because many of us can remember when cigarettes were everywhere (including on airplanes and in work places) people don't really appreciate the real harm of walking through clouds of smoke on the sidewalks.

    Don't even get me started on the millions of cigarette butts that are on the ground everywhere around Seattle and how those filters (that don't really biodegrade) leach all of those lovely toxins and carcinogens into Puget Sound.

    Posted 2 years ago #         
  4. bluebird
    Member Profile

    I don't understand this complaint. Rather than work to just make tobacco illegal, you're attacking a by-product, so to speak.

    As it stands, smoking is a legal activity. (and always will be, because we love our sin tax revenue)

    It was contained to select private establishments, mostly adult only bars. Not allowed in any restaurants or other public buildings. You could easily choose to have a drink somewhere else, but that wasn't satisfactory.

    The smokers were driven outside. They are exactly where you wanted them, blowing smoke on everyone now, including your kids.

    And I'm always amazed that this one carcinogen is singled out, while you happily drive your SUV's around, eating your charred burgers, talking on your radiation cell phones.

    Can we protest bakeries too? Fat is a much bigger health danger to me personally.

    Posted 2 years ago #         
  5. Amen, Bluebird.

    Posted 2 years ago #         
  6. Kimberley
    Member Profile

    I believe the OP was walking through the neighbourhood, not chosing to drink at that particular establishment.

    Posted 2 years ago #         
  7. bluebird
    Member Profile

    I believe I was talking about the law, that forced smokers outside to be walked by.

    Posted 2 years ago #         
  8. swimcat
    Member Profile

    Just hold your breath and walk through the smoke cloud- or wave your hand in front of your face to make a scene. The exposure will be so brief I highly doubt you'll get cancer from it.

    My big complaint about smokers is that they drive up insurance costs for EVERYONE (thanks- I love subsidizing everyone that chooses to not exercise, eat fatty foods and smokes/drinks excessively/does drugs), and they litter their cigarette butts EVERYWHERE. The littering is mind-boggling to me. Someone will be smoking in their car with the window rolled down (hello, your car is going to stink anyways, as are your clothes and breath), and they toss the butt out the window onto the road. Put it in your ashtray!! Lazy, lazy, lazy.

    Posted 2 years ago #         
  9. bluebird
    Member Profile

    No one ever has a fit about the lack of *fitness* though, and all it's associated costs. And the litter is wrong from anyone. I live by a bus stop. The trash is unbelievable. Makes me want to ban beverages and chips:)

    Posted 2 years ago #         
  10. No one ever has a fit about the lack of *fitness* though, and all it's associated costs.

    Actually, they do. Ask anyone you know who's even moderately overweight about the deliberately delicate questions they receive about their diet and activity levels. For that matter, I *have* heard rants about fat people driving up insurance premiums. For realz.

    Personally, I just think it's kind of rude to blow smoke in somebody's face. Sort of like chewing with one's mouth open, you know?

    Posted 2 years ago #         
  11. GenHillOne
    Member Profile

    I have to say I'm with bluebird on this one. You've hit every point for me and each one could spin into its own argument. When you boil it right down, why they didn't simply limit smoking to over-21 establishments - who would CHOOSE whether or not they wish to allow smoking (read: adults may then choose to patronize or work in those establishments, or not) - I'll never know. Place a big 'ol smoking or non-smoking symbol in the window and there you go. Perhaps it would have trended to a 100% ban anyway, but I would much prefer to see it be a business decision rather than a mandate.

    Posted 2 years ago #         
  12. christopherboffoli
    Member Profile

    Whether or not something is LEGAL doesn't make it right. It might be perfectly legal for my neighbor to chain smoke right outside of the window of my house, filling the inside of my residence with smoke. But is it right?

    In my mind this issue isn't really about smoke per se but about courtesy. The OP was explicit in saying they didn't care if people smoked. THEY just didn't want to breathe it.

    According to the most recent stats, 9 out of 10 citizens in King County are non-smokers. So it seems that smokers are an ever increasing minority. But interestingly it seems like you cannot walk on a downtown sidewalk for more than a minute without sucking on someone else's smoke.

    Posted 2 years ago #         
  13. I am not a smoker and am exceedingly sensitive to secondhand smoke and cigarette byproducts.. a full ashtray can trigger an asthma attack...

    however... i believe our laws failed us when they forced smokers onto our public streets. Those unintended consequences will get you every time.

    I vote for holding your breath or crossing the street..

    Posted 2 years ago #         
  14. swimcat
    Member Profile

    If smoking had been banned from all bars when I was in my 20's, I probably would have gone out a lot more than I did. I hated coming home smelling like stale smoke, with stinging eyes. YUCK. There were only a handful of bars that were smoke free before the smoking ban- there weren't many options but I'd always try to go to those places rather than a bar like the Mecca, the Corner Pocket or the Poggey. If my friends decided to go to a super smokey bar, I'd usually just head home for the night. I always thought it was completely unfair that I would miss out hanging out with my friends because others felt the need to smoke, smoke, smoke and my only option was to put up with the stink or miss out on the fun.

    Posted 2 years ago #         
  15. jamminj
    Member Profile

    I used to fart whenever I was at a bar and someone was smoking next to me. It would have been better if I stood on the stool and faced my rear right at the smoker, but I restrained myself. Its amazing the look or comments I get from the smokers.
    .
    I wonder why this one thing deserves special treatment as to not have to follow any regulations.
    .
    We regulate everything coming into a bar/restaurant - the water, the food, the air, the staff - yet cigarettes get a pass??
    .
    The smokers should have argued more along the lines of deregulation instead of privilege.
    .
    Probably wouldn't have won as well, guess people do want their food, water, air clean - but at least the smokers would have been more consistent.
    .
    Anyways, I still fart when I walk by smokers outside, but its lost its luster. :)

    Posted 2 years ago #         
  16. biankat
    Member Profile

    biankat

    Cross the street or deal. It's not going away.

    Posted 2 years ago #         
  17. villagegreen
    Member Profile

    villagegreen

    Smokers outside don't bother me at all, but this statement from the OP definitely piqued my interest, "When I walk past a bar (like the one going in on Admiral Way between Calif. and 42nd)." What bar is that? Have I missed something?

    Posted 2 years ago #         
  18. itneverrainsinwestseattle
    Member Profile

    JamminJ...how do you pass gas on command?

    Nice posts on this topic. It seems that most of you support a smokers right to smoke; but, also demand the right to clean air.

    Posted 2 years ago #         
  19. Irukandji
    Member Profile

    Irukandji

    I vote for holding your breath. Crossing the street there means you end up breathing Jack in the Box. Ack.

    Posted 2 years ago #         
  20. bluebird
    Member Profile

    I always wonder why this one thing deserves special treatment as well. Special bad treatment.

    Like any activity, when something bothers us, we notice the offenders, not all the polite people. I'm in my 40's and I have never had smoke blown in my face. And if I did, I would consider it rude and offensive.

    But rude, is rude, is rude. It come in all shapes and sizes. Take a look at the side of the freeway. Do you really think all those yellow trash bags are filled with cigarette butts? Yet smokers are automatically labeled the worst?

    And why can't we take a little personal responsibility? Avoid what bothers us (when possible), or request the person not be inconsiderate. Have any of you said, could you please not blow that my direction (without being judgemental)?

    I've asked people to please not have their stereo so loud after 10. It's not that complicated and they're often oblivious. Just as annoying, but not malicious.

    Posted 2 years ago #         
  21. furryfaces
    Member Profile

    Sorry for the Topic hi-jack everyone: christopherboffoli --please call or email me at furryfaces@hotmail.com We have a safe place for the stray cat that you have befriended. We will get her checked for a chip. Hopefully she has one, however, if she doesn't, we have a fun, safe place for her.Thanks, F3 321-4729

    Posted 2 years ago #         
  22. Hmmmmm....doesn't RCW 70.160.075 state "Smoking prohibited within twenty-five feet of public places or places of employment"...if this is the case, shouldn't the smokers then be sent into the street to smoke so that the sidewalk is clear for all walkers, kids included? Why should us non-smokers have to be inconvenienced to avoid people smoking on the sideWALK? Shouldn't they be the one's that have to be inconvenienced as they are doing what is not the intended use of the sideWALK? Wish law enforcement would crack down on this law as it would be a good way to make the city some extra cash to support it.

    Posted 2 years ago #         
  23. bluebird
    Member Profile

    Since it's a sideWALK only, lets ban bikes and trikes and strollers too. Enough of those babies getting a free ride. WALK or get out of the way.

    Those cafe tables and chairs really irritate me too. Drink your dang coffee inside the restaurant. It's what it is intended for and my dog is really inconvenienced.

    Please. Could we be more picky. The 25 feet does not mean at a 90 degree angle out into the street, btw.

    Posted 2 years ago #         
  24. 25 feet away from one business' door is smack-dab next to the door of another at times. I for one am just happy to be able to drink my adult beverage and not stink when I get home. You can't have it both ways. Smoke dissipates outside in the air very quickly, and you have a ton of fresh air you can breathe when you walk past the smokers. or maybe business owners should build scaffolds outside for the smokers to climb upon so they don't sully your air as you quickly walk by?

    Posted 2 years ago #         
  25. bluebird
    Member Profile

    Beer garden on the roof!

    Posted 2 years ago #         
  26. villagegreen
    Member Profile

    villagegreen

    bluebird - rooftop beer garden is right! I've been asking all my native Seattleite friends recently why this city doesn't have more bars with rooftop decks. I mean that's one thing Seattle has over most other cities, VIEWS. Why aren't we taking advantage of them? The midwest city I'm originally from is flat as a pancake with nothing spectacular to look at and there are tons of rooftop drinking options.

    I'm assuming it may have something to do with the stifling nanny state that we live in - regulating the life out of everything. Otherwise, I just don't understand. A prime example would be the Feedback Lounge. They must have an unbelievably awesome view from their roof. What are they waiting for?

    Posted 2 years ago #         
  27. Jiggers
    Member Profile

    Jiggers

    I love the bartenders I see smoking outside and know they don't wash their hands and handle your food and drinks right after their little bad smokey habit break. I go out knowingly that you are at risk to get anything and I mean you can catch anything from smokey stinky server hands. It is what it is I guess. Gross and bad habit.

    Posted 2 years ago #         
  28. bluebird
    Member Profile

    The smokey stinky virus is scary. Much worse than the nearly eradicated potty wipey outbreak of the 80's. Thankfully, no one relieves themselves at work anymore now that we've outlawed it.

    Posted 2 years ago #         
  29. christopherboffoli
    Member Profile

    Jiggers: That's a good point. I'm always amazed at how many chefs (and some at really good restaurants) smoke. Seems like a smoking habit would really kill your palate.

    Posted 2 years ago #         
  30. it doesn't seem to.

    Hubby has quit off and on but is still mostly a smoker and he can taste something new and tell you what is in it.

    i would hate to think his appreciation for my cooking was just because he couldn't taste anything:(

    Posted 2 years ago #         
  31. ellenater
    Member Profile

    ellenater

    Your self righteousness is stinkier than any smoke I have ever smelled.

    Posted 2 years ago #         
  32. Bluebird: SideWALKS are used for the safe transport of people (non-motorized equip), whether it be bicyclists, joggers, or walkers. Stop dwelling on the nit picky part of statements and understand the real issue.

    And 25 feet from the storefront law is 25 feet in front of ANY store front so you have to perpendicular to the establishment which means in the parking lane or the travel lane of the road...Just sayin'

    Posted 2 years ago #         
  33. bluebird
    Member Profile

    I think if I knew where you walked, I'd start smoking.

    Posted 2 years ago #         
  34. transplantella
    Member Profile

    transplantella

    Tape measure!

    Citizen patrols with tape measures can pound the pavement outside of bars to measure and ensure that smokers are the requite legal distance from doorways, and then advise them as to the letter of the law regarding where they may and may not stand. If the measured notified offender then fails to move the legislated 25 feet from any given doorway--call 911!

    Report this criminal behavior to the authorities and demand that the letter of the law be enforced without exception. Rights are being violated! The law is being breached! The sidewalk is being illegally polluted!

    The public will not stand for such devious criminality here in the Nanny State.

    Posted 2 years ago #         
  35. ^ lol

    I don't smoke tobacco anymore but I do enjoy a whiff of it from time to time. Sitting at a red light at which someone in a different car is smoking with the window down is my favorite. It would be nice if the smokers were more responsible in the disposal of their refuse however (no butts on the sidewalks -> gutters -> sound).

    Posted 2 years ago #         
  36. I don't usually enjoy a cigar outside of a bar (don't like bars), but before torching a nice one in public, I *always* check wind direction first and move elsewhere if non smokers/children are downwind.
    *
    Btw, when IS the Unofficial WSB Forum Cigar Party?
    *
    Cigarettes, oth, I can hardly stand. :P x 10, But if I come upon a cigarette smoker enjoying one before I arrived, I don't expect them to accommodate ME by putting out their smoke. He/she was there first and I'm free to keep moving.
    *
    Little known tip: used cigar ends are great anti-slug and aphid/fly/flea repellent when left to brew in a container of water, like sun tea, then sprayed between garden plants and the flower beds. I save mine for this or put them out with the other dead leaves in my yard waste bin.
    *
    Uh... wait, what was the question again? :D

    Posted 2 years ago #         
  37. Something to consider: people who smoke aggressively, annoying those who find it offensive or irritating, are building a constituency for legislation further restricting smoking.

    Posted 2 years ago #         
  38. bluebird
    Member Profile

    Appreciate the threat Julie. Good job.

    And people who have nothing better to do than control what everyone else is doing...well, you figure out the rest.

    Posted 2 years ago #         
  39. transplantella
    Member Profile

    transplantella

    "Something to consider: people who smoke aggressively, annoying those who find it offensive or irritating, are building a constituency for legislation further restricting smoking."

    And how is that even possible? The only thing more restrictive than the current anti-smoking anti-tobacco crusade in Washington, would be to outlaw tobacco completely.

    Ever heard of Al Capone?

    Posted 2 years ago #         
  40. jamminj
    Member Profile

    "how do you pass gas on command? "
    .
    years and years of training!
    .
    "why this one thing deserves special treatment"
    .
    no, not 'special' treatment, just similar treatment that we have on other public health issues, like clean water, air, and food. We have one law restricting smokers from indoors and they act as if their life is being attacked.
    .
    you can drink yourselves to death, you can eat yourselves to death, and you can smoke yourself to death, but start effecting others health and then there will be rules.
    .
    as far as nanny state - don't hear complaints about the food inspectors, water treatment requirements, etc. - how about we let businesses run themselves if we so worried about a nanny state - again, make that argument all along then you might have an argument. But all I hear is smokers who think they deserve special treatment.

    Posted 2 years ago #         
  41. bluebird
    Member Profile

    To that I say, how many of you BBQ? Every seen the smoke from that drift from yard to yard? How about your fireplaces, wood stoves, outdoor Chimineas. Your campfires and beachfires. The city tried to ban fires on Alki last year and everyone had a living cow about it.

    How about sitting in traffic behind a bus? That's some quality air. And did you mow your lawn this year? Go out on a motorboat?

    But a little tiny wisp of smoke that dissipates into the air makes your blood boil?

    You'll never convince me (non-smoker) that this is anything but "I don't like it, so you shouldn't do it". If anyone was that worried about their lungs, they would be consistent.

    Posted 2 years ago #         
  42. jamminj
    Member Profile

    Yes, wee suck back some pretty crappy stuff all the time. But all those that you mentioned - there are regulations to monitor what we will allow. Smokers feel they are devoid of any legislation. Geez, my cheerios are monitored better than cigarettes.
    People aren't asking you to permanently stop smoking in your lives, but smokers act as if people who don't want smoking in indoor public facilities is some afront to them personally when the law was being passed.

    Posted 2 years ago #         
  43. bluebird: Fortunately no one has to convince YOU that the danger is real. And the fallacious reasoning that there are other forms of pollution in the air that are equal to the danger of inhaling cigarette smoke in close quarters are just weak too. I lost two beloved grandparents to cigarettes (at a young age) but I'm still of the mind that I don't care what people want to do to themselves as long as I don't have to breathe it. But smoking bans are continuing to gain momentum across the US and abroad simply because there are too many selfish smokers who simply don't care about the people around them.

    Posted 2 years ago #         
  44. bluebird
    Member Profile

    How did we get to "indoor public facilities" and "close quarters"? That is already illegal, and not a single person is trying to change it. We're talking about the great outdoors and the inability for someone to take 5 steps around a person they come upon who is smoking.

    Now if that same person is running at you, knocks you down, and blows all the smoke they can muster into your face, I'd think I'd call the police. You all just sound like bigger whiners than the smokers.

    First is was about the rudeness, then danger, then the smell, then the disease on hands, then the rudeness again, and now back to danger. You just don't like it. Which is fine.

    And Christopher, my sincerest sympathies on the loss of your grandparents.

    Posted 2 years ago #         
  45. Wow, Bluebird, wow...not sure I can say more that this...

    You are comparing cigarette smoke to car pollution???? Wow, do some research into the carcinogens proven in each and which are going are voluntarily inhaled...Oy never mind, this is pointless with you...let's just accept the fact that non-smokers want to be able to be smoke free 100% of the time, and smokers will do whatever is convenient for only them (in terms of lighting up)

    Posted 2 years ago #         
  46. Leroniusmonkfish
    Member Profile

    Leroniusmonkfish

    Posted 2 years ago #         
  47. ellenater
    Member Profile

    ellenater

    LOL Bluebird and Leronius!

    It's so stoopid to rail against smokers. It just is. Just cross the street and be quiet. And "aggressive smokers"? Give me a break!

    I also am an ex smoker and I like to walk by them to smell it occasionally, also. So if I had started this thread it would read:

    I have a problem. I used to smoke but don't now and as I walk by bars with smokers outside, I can't get close enough to get just a whiff of the good old stuff because I am too far away. It is offensive to me that I can't smell it. What should I do?

    Posted 2 years ago #         
  48. Leroniusmonkfish
    Member Profile

    Leroniusmonkfish

    Ellenater...glad you got to see my post before I decided to remove it. I've had enough death/bomb threats from my "naked bike riders" posts that I felt the two should be separate.

    Smokers where banned from bars, etc. a few years ago in WS and much longer in other states/countries. I still smoke...not exactly happy about it but it's a lifestyle choice I made and in turn I don't give a sh*t about folks who complain about whether or not such and such restaurant is vegan, child friendly, etc...A law was passed and I complied with it and in hindsight am happy about it. I smoke responsibly in that I don't smoke in parks around children, look for "no smoking" signs and consider my surroundings first before I light up... and I don't litter. I also don't smoke inside my own home. However, I do get naked outside of the public's eye from time to time. :)

    Posted 2 years ago #         
  49. acemotel
    Member Profile

    acemotel

    And throughout this conversation I keep thinking about the tobacco companies, those who glamorized and sexualized smoking; those who taught a whole generation that only the toughest, the smartest, the most beautiful smoked; those who knew smoking was dangerous, but still kept peddling the highly addictive plants to an unsuspecting and vulnerable public.

    Demonizing smokers is pathetic. The selfish ones are those who can't cross the street if they feel their lives are in danger. As bluebird has made the point so well: smokers have been shoved all the way outdoors already. Many smokers I know already feel as if they are second-class citizens. They find isolated spots outdoors to smoke, they keep watch for any people coming, they check the wind direction.

    If there has to be an enemy here, it's the tobacco companies who made billions and billions and billions of dollars peddling a highly-addictive substance. Enough already with the holier-than-thou critics.

    Posted 2 years ago #         
  50. Leroniusmonkfish
    Member Profile

    Leroniusmonkfish

    And where does all the money go that the state(s) make off of the sales of cigarettes, gambling, liquor, lottery, etc.? When CA became a non-smoking state I went outside of an establishment out into the parking lot. The valet attendant told me that I couldn't smoke on their property so I had to walk out onto the street. More than 50 yards away from the front door. Yet I was a paying customer...I felt like a 3rd class citizen and when I went back a year later after the smoking ban went into effect I decided to stop in only to find that it was no longer in business and just a vacant piece of property. I asked about what had happened to this "local" watering hole and was told they were "fined" out of business. If cigarettes are no longer allowed in bars/restaurants then why are they still allowed to sell them....think about it.

    Posted 2 years ago #         

RSS feed for this topic

Reply »

You must log in to post.

All contents copyright 2012, A Drink of Water and a Story Interactive. Here's how to contact us.
No photo reuse without permission.
Entries and comments feeds. ^Top^