A very sad day, with the passing of Ted Kennedy. What an incredible lifetime given to the service of his country. What a great man he was - he will be missed :'( 1932-2009
WSB Forum » Open Discussion
So long, Teddy...RIP
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Posted 2 years ago #
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We'll miss him terribly. We owe him so much.
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He made mistakes
He wasn't always successful
But he tried really hardWe are unlikely to see his like again soon.
:(
Posted 2 years ago # -
Humanity has lost an advocate.
Posted 2 years ago # -
Let us remember what the wingnuts and teabaggers will never understand.
Our cause has been, since the days of Thomas Jefferson, the cause of the common man and the common woman.
Our commitment has been, since the days of Andrew Jackson, to all those he called "the humble members of society -- the farmers, mechanics, and laborers." On this foundation we have defined our values, refined our policies, and refreshed our faith.
In this campaign and in this country that we seek to lead, the challenge in 1980 is to give our voice and our vote for these fundamental democratic principles.
Let us pledge that we will never misuse unemployment, high interest rates, and human misery as false weapons against inflation.
Let us pledge that employment will be the first priority of our economic policy.
Let us pledge that there will be security for all those who are now at work, and let us pledge that there will be jobs for all who are out of work; and we will not compromise on the issues of jobs.
These are not simplistic pledges. Simply put, they are the heart of our tradition, and they have been the soul of our Party across the generations. It is the glory and the greatness of our tradition to speak for those who have no voice, to remember those who are forgotten, to respond to the frustrations and fulfill the aspirations of all Americans seeking a better life in a better land.
We dare not forsake that tradition.
The commitment I seek is not to outworn views but to old values that will never wear out. Programs may sometimes become obsolete, but the ideal of fairness always endures. Circumstances may change, but the work of compassion must continue. It is surely correct that we cannot solve problems by throwing money at them, but it is also correct that we dare not throw out our national problems onto a scrap heap of inattention and indifference. The poor may be out of political fashion, but they are not without human needs. The middle class may be angry, but they have not lost the dream that all Americans can advance together.
Finally, we cannot have a fair prosperity in isolation from a fair society. So I will continue to stand for a national health insurance. We must -- We must not surrender -- We must not surrender to the relentless medical inflation that can bankrupt almost anyone and that may soon break the budgets of government at every level. Let us insist on real controls over what doctors and hospitals can charge, and let us resolve that the state of a family's health shall never depend on the size of a family's wealth.
The President, the Vice President, the members of Congress have a medical plan that meets their needs in full, and whenever senators and representatives catch a little cold, the Capitol physician will see them immediately, treat them promptly, fill a prescription on the spot. We do not get a bill even if we ask for it, and when do you think was the last time a member of Congress asked for a bill from the Federal Government? And I say again, as I have before, if health insurance is good enough for the President, the Vice President, the Congress of the United States, then it's good enough for you and every family in America.
-- Sen. Kennedy's 1980 Democratic National Convention speech.
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"For me, a few hours ago, this campaign came to an end. For all those whose cares have been our concern, the work goes on, the cause endures, the hope still lives, and the dream shall never die."
_ Addressing Democratic National Convention, August 1980
Posted 2 years ago # -
I have been anti Kennedy since he left his sister in a car to drowned back in 1982. Still no hard feeling since he is dead now too. Both together in heaven.
Posted 2 years ago # -
jschu,
I don't make it a habit to engage wingnuts anywhere, but I'll make an exception in your demented case.
Ted Kennedy did have sisters, but he left none of them dead in any sort of car, since he was the youngest of Joe and Rose Kennedy's children.
Are you using drowned as in the song "Oh Mary Don't You Weep" (didn't Pharoahs army get drown-ded) or are you just dumb? I have a prejudice in your case, try and prove it wrong.
What is the significance of the year 1982 to drowning or women in cars? Can you explain?
You have made factual errors in all the statements you have made here. Do you imagine that just blathering is acceptable conversation?
Yours in anticipation, I am
Seattle Bob
Posted 2 years ago # -
Have you heard of Chapaqutick? She died in a car wreck. Not sure on year - must have been in the 60's. Check the facts on that. No need to get personal. Lets keep it civil.
Posted 2 years ago # -
JoB,
That's the best you can do for Ted?
He made mistakes, well, that makes him less than you and me, right?
He wasn't always successful? 47 years in the Senate, acknowledged as one of the great legislators of all time. What is your criterion for success?
He tried really hard? In addition to fighting for the Civil Rights Act of 1965, Kennedy went to work on the one major legislative initiative leading civil rights organizations wanted but the Johnson Administration did not embrace –eliminating the poll tax. The Supreme Court vindicated Kennedy by declaring the poll tax unconstitutional.
Those would be more than enough to win him a slot as one of the more valiant legislators of our time, and it happened in his first full term as senator.
Posted 2 years ago # -
jschu,
It is spelled Chappaquiddick, and how could I not know of it? Mouth breathers have been talking about if for forty years now, through two generations. You speak as one who is of the second one, your understanding is so barren.
Get the timing right, 1982 is not 1969 and Mary Jo Kopechne is not Kathleen Kennedy, his sister who died in an airplane crash in 1948.
Do you know anything at all about Ted Kennedy?
Posted 2 years ago # -
It amazes me that, of all the things Ted Kennedy did in his life, the righties always come back to Chappaquiddick. Not civil rights, not family medical leave, not CHIPS, not health care for all.
You nut bags are in a glass house. Need I remind you of John Ensign, Mark Sanford, Jim Vitter? These are the reprobates of only the last four years in the Republican senatorial, "family values" constellation. For more in the arena of hypocracy, I'll mention Larry Craig, who rants against gay rights even though he's a wide stance man, himself.
Three of those guys are all still in office, so shut up about Ted, OK? There are more where that came from.
Posted 2 years ago # -
Deep Respect for Ted Kennedy, he will be missed like no other Senator and political humanitarian.
Posted 2 years ago # -
To answer Bobs question. I know about Ted Kennedy- Famous senator. Father was Joe. Brothers- Robert, John and Martin. All 3 assasinated. Ted was younger and kept out of politics. Rumored to be a good guy but with accidents and a drinking problem. worked for health care rights and was a close friend of Richard Nixon. (now dead)
Posted 2 years ago # -
jschu...
if that is all you know of Ted Kennedy,
you know little...
and much of what you "know isn't correct"
try wikipedia.you are on your own for a link but if you type Ted Kennedy in the little google search box in the upper right corner and click off the WSB only link.. you'll get there.
catlbob...
too sad to say more.
i feel like i lost a best friend.
and i did.
even though i never met him.btw..
i would be honored if someone wrote that about me some day.
Ted Kennedy was a bigger man because he struggled to be the best he could be and because he wanted the same for everyone else.Posted 2 years ago # -
jschu,
No, Martin was from a song ofthe sixties, "Abraham, Martin and John", not a Kennedy brother, but MLK. King was associated with the Kennedys mainly in allegory.
Having a drinking problem and screwing willing campaign workers is, pretty much, politics today as in days gone by. I don't blame Mary Jo or Ted for going out in his Pontiac convertible and having a roll in the hay. Driving off the bridge was a tragic occurance, who knows, maybe the emergency brake failed while they were in deep lust.
Whatever actually went on then is no reason to rail against Edward Kennedy during the period of mourning over his death. Laura Bush killed someone with a car. Is she a murderer?
You righties defend a lot of people who have character flaws far greater than those of ANY of the Kennedys with far fewer accomplishments for humanity to offset their foibles.
Posted 2 years ago # -
OK- I'll look it up- Accidents happen and death happens. I did not know about Laura Bush. Was that when they were in the White House? Never mind- I'll look it up.
Posted 2 years ago # -
Older brother Joe was killed in wwII on a secret mission.
Posted 2 years ago # -
jschu...the Laura Bush accident was way before they ever got to the White House.
Posted 2 years ago # -
Nothing will ever absolve Ted Kennedy for Chappaquiddick. I can understand the partying with women. I can understand the tragic mistake of driving drunk, it was almost a requirement in the 50's-60's. I can understand an accident.
I can not understand waiting 10 hours to go to the police when you you know your companion is under water. Where is the reckless endangerment, manslaughter, or even a DUI conviction? He did not pay the price through our criminal justice system the way any one not wealthy and connected would have to.
That being said, it seems he did recognize, feel guilt and remorse, and accept full personal responsibility. And I don't think he'd have become nearly the man, without this event. He spent the remainder of his life, literally, fighting for the quality of life for all of us. A commenter mentioned, from civil rights to medicare (and everything in between), there is no one who has not benefited from his accomplishments.
That dedication and level of public service should be his legacy. I respect, appreciate, and honor him in his passing.
I don't however, forget the past. And instead of screaming rudely at jschu, it is possible to convey the facts and educate. No need for the belittling. That was just harsh and uncalled for and makes me inclined to ignore you, not him/her.
Posted 2 years ago # -
Your right. Its obviously permissible to just pull out random facts out of thin air, multiple times, and then get a free pass. No need to followup with a correction or apology for a miss statement(s) directed towards a deceased Senator. Carry on.
Posted 2 years ago # -
RIP Teddy. In spite of your faults and remorse, you carried on the voice and needs of the common man and women for all the rest of the world to see.
Posted 2 years ago # -
No free pass, but if you believe angry shouts, name calling, and denigration, get your point across, you're no brighter than the person you're calling out.
Posted 2 years ago # -
I believe, BB, that you just presumed to make a judgement on the brightness of someone who made a point in a way you didn't like.
Nevertheless, I'm becoming a rabid fan of "have they no shame?" I'm very tired of being expected to be polite to people who don't even bother to make sense at all. If I were a bigger person, I might do it. But I can honestly say I've gotten to a ripe old age and suffering fools has only gotten me a rare talent for suffering.
People on the right tend to make long winded barely lucid pronouncements and go unchallenged. (I am not talking about anyone in this thread -- I'm explaining why your request for "civility" will be ignored by me; and you're quite welcome to ignore me (or even to think I'm stupid.))
WRT Senator Kennedy, I'm pretty amazed that in 40 years people still whine endlessly about the tragic accident on the bridge in chappaquiddick. Sounds like intellectual laziness to me.
A long time ago I reserved the domain, "factbasedworld.com." It's now going to be my official email residence. If you want an account there too, let me know.
Posted 2 years ago # -
bluebird...
why is it you see so clearly that someone was putting down juschu...
but fail to see at all that juschu persisted in repeating divel long after they had been informed it was drivel?
this seems to be the hallmark of the half truths being leveled now at anything coming from the left.
Half truths paraded as truths and focusing on the next half truth as each lie is debunked... followed by total indignation that anyone would challenge them when informed that there isn't even a shred of truth in their argument.
enough already.
Yes, Ted Kennedy made mistakes. Chappaquiddick was not the only mistake he made while battling the alcoholism that followed the wake of grief at losing both of his older brothers and political heroes to assassination... after losing his oldest brother to war.
If we are going to to tell the tale, let's tell all of it. Context does matter.
He spent a lifetime atoning for his sins... both real and perceived... both publicly and privately.. and befriending those who were in need.
You may choose not to to forgive him..
but that doesn't give you or anyone else the right to tell half truths and innuendos and dismiss so cavalierly his lifetime of accomplishments.
I can think of no other person who has withstood both the tragedy that engulfed his family and the public eye and still accomplished so much.
Posted 2 years ago # -
I heard Dick Cheney eats puppies. With his brothers, Larry Curly and Moe. I heard that somewhere, but I don't want to bother to check facts before I spout it off. sheesh. the stupid runs strong in this thread.
yes, Ted Kennedy had a car accident and someone died. So did Laura Bush. So do a lot of people.
Tom Ridge just admitted to falsely raising the terror alerts right before the 2004 election to keep us all scared as sheep and ensure a victory for W. Why isn't anyone talking about that?
"Our announcement, as delivered with the loaded words, was seen in some as a way to divert attention from that event and to reenforce in the minds of Americans that--even as the Democrats enjoyed their hour upon the political stage--only the Republican incumbent could keep American safe. . . ."
Posted 2 years ago # -
Bluebird...
i don't idolize the Kennedy's but they came to represent political hope for those of us who didn't drop out in the 70s in a way that is very difficult to explain.
When Ted Kennedy died, the hope that i would see the the kind of change i have been advocating for my entire life died with him... and it will be very difficult for me to resurrect. I don't know if I can.
I have seen the world full of idealism and promise that began my adulthood morph into one in which appearances are more important than reality...
in which you can no longer have confidence that the news you watch will be factually correct...
in which ignorance is celebrated.The statistic i heard recently that summed it up for me was that about 30 percent of those who graduate from college with a bachelor's degree can't pass a basic reading comprehension test.
I would doubt those statistics, but I have seen plenty of evidence that they are correct.. that both reading comprehension and the ability to understand basic logic are sadly lacking in too many of today's graduates. Somehow too many of them have graduated without the basic ability to research facts and discriminate between truth and innuendo.
When i entered high school, you couldn't even get into many high schools without passing a reading comprehension test and remedial reading was part of the vocational curriculum.
And when my mom attended school, you couldn't pass the 5th grade without the same skills. Her 8th grade education was adequate enough to allow her to read widely and pass her GED in her 30s with nearly 100% accuracy... long before i entered high school.
And let me tell you, even though she was literate, she still clung to more than her share of half truths and political posturing... but she could still follow a basic argument even when she didn't want to believe the outcome.
Even stoners were literate in the late 60s.
Ted Kennedy was our lion... a man who still stood up after all the disillusionment and his many mistakes and fought for the rights of the common man... and did so with eloquent and lucid argument.
I still have political heroes.. men like Dennis Kucinich who stand up and speak up for what is right in a world that has gotten it's priorities so out of context that it is on the verge of economic and moral collapse...
but they will have a difficult time accumulating the kind of political power in this climate of distortion that was handed to Ted Kennedy his first day in office.
His death, though expected, comes much too soon.
I don't expect you to understand what his death means to those of us who have benefited so much from the work he did..
but i do expect you to respect our grief.
Ted Kennedy's death is not just another tick mark on the great democrat/republican score board.
And certainly isn't an excuse for more empty headed righteous indignation by those who don't even bother to check their facts before repeating the rumors and innuendos fed to them by their nightly news of choice.
If nothing else, he deserves respect from both sides for his 40 years of service to this nation.. for the fact that even nearing death he showed up and did his duty.
shame on anyone who doesn't get that.
Posted 2 years ago # -
Someone who is genuinely ill-informed (or stupid, as you say) would be better served by educating.
And I would be better served, blood pressure wise, by ignoring someone who is baiting me.
jschu wasn't saying drivel about anyone on here, and you handled it correctly JoB, by suggesting a resource for correct information. They responded in kind, by saying, I'll start looking things up.
To answer your question, I see that jschu, as a person, was being put down by these comments:
"are you just dumb? I have a prejudice in your case, try and prove it wrong"
"Do you imagine that just blathering is acceptable conversation?"
"You speak as one who is of the second one, your understanding is so barren."
"You nut bags are in a glass house."
"so shut up about Ted, OK? "
Are those not personal attacks? I'll leave now, because I'd rather discuss, but thank you for your responses.
BTW, I said I wouldn't forget. It isn't up to me to forgive. I'll leave that to the persons directly hurt. As a citizen, I've already stated, he has my respect and admiration for all his accomplishments.
Posted 2 years ago # -
bluebird..
the saddest commentary on our times is that replying to those who repeat every idiotic thing they hear as though it is the gospel truth with reason is just about as futile as repeatedly ramming your head into a brick wall.
Unfortunately for me, i came of age in an ideological climate that lauded heroic senselss efforts and i can't seem to unlearn the habits of a lifetime...
but even i begin to see that the aggravation isn't always worth the results.. in fact.. tilting at these windmills hasn't really been good for me at all... and results too seldom in greater good for those who follow.
For all my efforts at women's liberation... for all i gave up so that my children and grandchildren could live without that particular form of discrimination... i am rewarded in my late mid life with Sarah Palin touted as an example of women's liberation and a role model.
It's not that she is republican, it's that she was little more than a charming charismatic skirt paraded as politically competent to pander to women.
Pandering. That's not liberation.
I am not so sure that those who call a stupid remark stupid haven't got it right after all.
When you reply to that kind of studidity with reason you only elevate it's content far beyond it's worth.
I am not sure there is a nice way to say "check your facts and come back when you have something intelligent to say"... but you seem to think i managed.
today, i am not sure even that is worth the effort.
but then, i am consumed with grief... for a good man and what he represented to me.
who knows what mistakes i will make in it's wake.
Posted 2 years ago # -
and one last point... before i walk away from this discussion...
there is this pervading misconception that democrats just forget the mistakes made in their name.. all for the good of the cause.
i would say that i can't understand where this comes from.. in the face of all evidence to the contrary.. but i KNOW where it comes from.
it comes from the political machine that has been tarring the left with the attributes of the right.. smear them before they can embarrass you with your own weaknesses.
It comes from those who confuse political posturing and yellow journalism for news.
Sorry... but ours was not the party that elected George W for a second term in spite of the fact that he clearly embroiled us in a war without good cause or that he didn't deliver on a single one of those bipartisan campaign promises... he didn't even make an attempt.
Yet, Faux fanned the flames of fear fed them by the Bush administration and one half of our bipartisan system re-elected the man who increased our reasons for that fear.
And you think we suffer from some form of amnesia when we look at a man's life in context instead of singling out and amplifying his mistakes?
Oh chamber pot.. you are too full of your own to be complaining about us...
Posted 2 years ago # -
"Comments that break WSB rules and therefore are held for moderation do not get approved. While this discussion is certainly heated, it has not devolved to name-calling between participants in the discussion, which is against our rules, as summarized fairly simply: Criticize the idea, not the person voicing it. You can say an idea/statement/suggestion/etc. is idiotic, but you can’t call the person voicing it an idiot. Not here, anyway - TR
Comment by WSB — August 11, 09 1:39 pm #"The above quote was taken from the thread about the poor lady and her dog who were attacked by some fellow who didn't want the dog to relieve itself on his parking strip.
So far catlbob has called people, not their ideas, in this thread, wingnut, dumb (post 10), mouthbreather (post 13), and finally nutbags (post 14). Are the forum rules going to be administered to all threads or just ones that you have a personal interest in?
Posted 2 years ago # -
kg..
good full chamberpot example here...
it's not ok to rationalize discrimination and gratuitous nastiness against others
and then complain about discrimination or gratuitous nastiness you think you or one of your friends has encountered...
this IS about ideas...
responsibility is one of those right buzzwords isn't it?
...as in "THEY just have to take responsibility for themselves" ...How about some personal responsibility from the wing nuts?
we can start with the responsibility to check out the "facts" before repeating them as though they had relevance.as for name-calling...
The posts that jschu made were roughly akin to attending a funeral service and mocking the deceased.
Is that the kind of behavior you are rushing to defend?
jschu knew so little about the deceased that their comments could only be a political chit they thought they were cashing.
Given the behavior exhibited... and the genuine grief felt by many at Ted Kennedy's death...
don't you think it might be a good idea to pull those ideological talons in a bit and cut those who actually care about Ted Kennedy a little slack?
This kind of behavior is in poor taste at best...
and at an Irish wake... and Ted was Irish.. Boston Irish... more than enough justification for blackened eyes and broken bones...
after all.. all that happened was sticks and stones... and all that...
your complaint had nothing to do with jschu's behavior or catalbob's response... and everything to do with making political hay out this incident... one more point for the righteous.
The trouble is that there is nothing righteous in your behavior.
I implore you to have the smallest amount of decency..
and let us grieve the passing of Ted Kennedy...
minus the gratuitous nastiness from the peanut section.
Posted 2 years ago # -
Job..
Many ways to go about things and that guys words were inexcusable. Stop trying to justify what he wrote. Moreover, the WSB moderators should apply the rules to every thread. I imagine justice is not too terribly blind on these boards. My post doesn't mention whatever that guys names who started this all with the erroneous information, because it wasn't worth mentioning. The person, although misguided, did not use language that was deemed offensive as per the rules.
Regardless, I pointed out the "fair and balanced rules" and it was obviously taken with a grain of salt by the moderators. This sleeping dog is going to lie as far as I am concerned. We can take this up in another thread instead of de-railing this one further. Maybe it will denigrate into name calling and we can see how fast it gets deleted.
I'll even give an easy open, I'm Irish.Posted 2 years ago # -
RIP is short for Rest In Peace...
Generally, but not always, it is used when someone dies and a memorial is desired.
Just so you know...
Posted 2 years ago # -
hey, hey, hey folks..I'm the OP here, and I meant this thread to be about Teddy Kennedy's death, for us to mourn, for us to talk about the wonderful things that he has done in his 47 years to his country. Yes, There was Chappaquiddick, but why bring it up now? He paid dearly for that sin, and became a better man because of it. There are so many other things that he DID do for this country that we should forgive him for being human
kg, Catlbob did not specifically call jschu a wing-nut...it was, in my estimation a generalized use. Nor did he call him dumb...he asked if he was dumb. There's a difference. He also used the term "mouth breather" generally, to mean a whole group of people.
I am dismayed that this thread has turned into something personal about WSB favoring some and not others. I would like to kindly ask that we go there in another thread and please, please, let this be about Teddy Kennedy and the fact that we have lost a great countryman
I realize this is a public forum, so anyone can say anything, basically, and it can possibly make many turns. But...could we all play nice just this once?
Thanks...
Posted 2 years ago # -
A partial list of the legislation that Senator Kennedy, of blessed memory, sponsored and drove during his career. These just cover kids, education, and health -- and it's only the beginning:
1964: Head Start
-- Provided meals and early education to pre-school children through the Employee Opportunity Act.
1971: Federal Cancer Research Program
-- Quadrupled the amount of money spent by the federal government to fight cancer.1972: Title IX
-- Demanded equal funding for men's and women's athletics on college campuses.1975: Individuals with Disabilities Education Act (IDEA)
-- Guaranteed free and appropriate public education to children with disabilities. (This is the law that provides education for EVERY SINGLE CHILD WITH A DISABILITY in public schools in this country.)1978: Civil Rights Commission Act Amendments
-- Expanded the jurisdiction of the Civil Rights Commission to protect people from discrimination on the basis of disability.1984: Improved Access to Polling Stations
-- Required polling stations to provide physical accessibility for physically disabled and elderly people on federal election days.1986: Employment Opportunities for Disabled Americans Act
-- Allowed disabled workers to receive SSI benefits and Medicaid coverage.1988: Fair Housing Act Amendments
-- Prohibited discrimination towards people with disabilities in the sale or rental of housing.1989: National Military Child Care Act
-- Established the Department of Defense child care system.1990: Americans with Disabilities Act
-- Prohibited discrimination against any qualified individual with a disability in job application procedures, hiring or discharge, compensation, advancement and training.1990: Ryan White CARE Act
-- Provided assistance to states to develop effective and cost-efficient AIDS care programs, aimed particularly at early diagnosis and home care.1993: National and Community Service Trust Act
-- Created AmeriCorps and the Corporation for National and Community Service to help expand volunteerism and education grants for students who choose to volunteer for service after college.1993: Student Loans
-- Allowed students to borrow money for college directly from the federal government.1994: Family and Medical Leave Act
-- Provided up to 12 weeks of unpaid leave for family emergencies or after the birth of infants.1994: Crime Act
-- Secured funding for 100,000 new police officers, imposed new penalties for crimes involving gangs and firearms and authorized the Police Corps, a program to award college scholarships to students in return for a commitment to serve as police officers.1996: Kennedy-Kassebaum Act
-- Enabled employees to keep health insurance after leaving their job and prohibited insurance companies from refusing to renew coverage on the basis of preexisting medical conditions.1996: Mental Health Parity Bill
-- Eliminated limits on mental health coverage that differ from other covered illnesses.1997: State Children's Health Insurance Program (SCHIP)
-- Supported state efforts to provide health insurance to uninsured children in low-income families.2000: Minority Health and Health Disparities Research and Education Act
-- Improved data systems and research on the extent and severity of minority health problems, and authorized significant resources to help enhance the delivery of health care to minorities.2001: No Child Left Behind Act
-- Required more rigorous testing of public school students and permitted parents to transfer their children from low-performing to higher-performing schools. (Clearly I've had issues with the implementation of this law, but the philosophy behind it is sound, and even in its flawed state, it has helped a lot of kids with disabilities.)2006: Family Opportunity Act
-- Provided states the opportunity to expand Medicaid coverage to children with special needs and allowed low- and middle-income families with disabled children the ability to purchase coverage under the Medicaid program.Posted 2 years ago # -
thanks charlabob...
now that's what i call context.
Posted 2 years ago # -
and not blind accusations...
Posted 2 years ago #
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