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(39 posts)

Smoking neighbor :(


  1. WSeaFam2
    Member Profile

    I am not one to complain about what my neighbors do, however.. I have a neighbor that has many adults living in thier home. They must have a non-smoking house because they have a dedicated smoking area in thier yard. The problem is that it is less than 10 feet from both of my bedroom wondows. When they smoke it is like someone lit up in my room.

    How can they not make this connection? They made sure the smoking area was far from thier house and right up against mine :( We do not smoke and it invades everything in our home. People show some consideration for your neighbors!!

    Posted 1 year ago #         
  2. you should try actually talking to them. perhaps they don't know.

    Posted 1 year ago #         
  3. luckymom30
    Member Profile

    Speaking to them about this is the way to go, we have neighbors who smoke and all have been courteous when we ask them to smoke in another part of the yard. The longer it bothers you and the longer you don't speak up the worse the problem will get for you.

    Posted 1 year ago #         
  4. WSeaFam2
    Member Profile

    They are looking into my window when they smoke...

    Posted 1 year ago #         
  5. again, have you TRIED talking to them? If you haven't, you have no room to complain. Be direct instead of passive.

    "Hey neighbor! Would you mind smoking somewhere else in your yard? The smoke is going right into my bedroom, and it's annoying. Thanks!"

    and if they persist, take the hose to them.

    Posted 1 year ago #         
  6. flowerpetal
    Member Profile

    flowerpetal

    My grandmother said "You attract more bees with sweetness." Be nice to your neighbors, go over with a plate of homemade cookies or a pie; or a bottle of wine and have a friendly talk.
    Taking the hose to them (I hope HM is joking) could get you an assault charge or at least a very uncooperative neighbor.
    I'm sure it is really gross and you shouldn't have to put up with it.

    Posted 1 year ago #         
  7. WSeaFam2
    Member Profile

    I tried to talk to them several times over the course of a year, about an unleashed dog who pooped in my yard several times daily. Plus the dog was agressive towards myself and family. They just looked at me like I was from another planet, said ok, and walked away. Nothing changed, so I have little hope that talking to them will make them move the smoking area.

    Posted 1 year ago #         
  8. flowerpetal
    Member Profile

    flowerpetal

    This is too bad. Perchance, do you work or have a business in your house? The laws are clearer about smoking distances from businesses. You might talk to the King County board of health. You might also need a third party negotiator.

    Posted 1 year ago #         
  9. I feel your pain. I had to deal with a very similar situation with a neighbor who was not only unconcerned when I politely approached him (asking him only to smoke farther from my property) but absolutely defiant. His absentee landlord didn't care either. My attorneys recently filed a petition to the State Supreme Court (with amicus briefs from tobacco policy law centers in MD and MN) which we hope will make it easier for people in Washington to pursue matters such as these under the umbrella of private nuisance.

    As some have suggested above, the situation is more about courtesy than it is about cigarette smoke. It is frustrating to think that if you lived in a public housing project the law would cover you but as a private owner you have absolutely no recourse if the person polluting your property refuses to move.

    Seattle is growing ever denser. No longer do we have vast suburban yards to mitigate things like this. But I'm optimistic that there might be hope on the horizon. I have recently been playing phone tag with Councilmember Sally Clark who tells me that the King County Board of Public Health has been working on this issue and something may be happening soon.

    As soon as I'm able to speak with her I'll loop back here and will post what I learn.

    Posted 1 year ago #         
  10. GenHillOne
    Member Profile

    "I am not one to complain about what my neighbors do, however.." I will anyway. Given your subsequent posts, did you have a goal in mind for this thread or were you just venting?

    Posted 1 year ago #         
  11. WorldCitizen
    Member Profile

    zgh2676

    Talk to them.

    Posted 1 year ago #         
  12. How about putting a window fan in each window blowing the air outward.

    Posted 1 year ago #         
  13. WSeaFam2
    Member Profile

    That could be a great solution, I did not think about the fan idea. I have several window fans and if I face them blowing out I can pull in air from another source and still keep the air flowing. Thank you :)

    Posted 1 year ago #         
  14. Wow! When I read the title of this post, I thought somebody's neighbor was about to burst into flames!

    The crowd of people turned away, but I just had to look.

    Imagine my disappointment . . .

    I'm going back to bed now, but if someone's neighbor should spontaneously combust tonight after all, please go ahead and wake me up.

    I don't wanna miss any of the hot neighbor-on-fire action.

     

    Posted 1 year ago #         
  15. dawsonct
    Member Profile

    Install a motion censor directed at their smoking area and attach it to various annoying items, like a strobe-light, and speakers playing children's songs or speeches of Rush Limpballs.

    Posted 1 year ago #         
  16. Play a loop of the Most Annoying Song Ever out the window
    http://www.wired.com/listening_post/2008/04/a-scientific-at/
    Actually - I think this one is worse:
    http://www.wired.com/listening_post/2008/05/survey-produced/

    Posted 1 year ago #         
  17. johnnyblegs
    Member Profile

    johnnyblegs

    dawsonct...Is this what you had in mind? May be a little tricky installing this by a bedroom. A horn would wake someone up and a strobe wouldn't really work during the day. Still a great idea though.

    Posted 1 year ago #         
  18. Find out what annoys them and do that. Fight fire with fire..pun intended. Or you could just join them and start smoking. It's a social thing and you might enjoy it. It also gives you a buzz and helps you relax about the situation. Who cares about cancer. Cancer Smancer. We can beat cancer with supplements. We really need to be more sensitive to smokers needs. Maybe give them a pack of smokes as a kind gesture. Tell them to smoke them all right next to your window cause you love the smell and it makes you so happy. It's especially cool when your clothes get that awesome smell. And OH, I love it when my hair smells smoker fresh!

    Posted 1 year ago #         
  19. I really like the idea of the fan. Make it so they know that it is bothering you. Maybe call out to another family member (even if they are not home) loud enough and say "Hey hon... the smoke is going to be coming into the bedroom will you turn on the fan?" :) I love the motion light idea but I think they might have the more irritating retaliation. I'm a smoker and on a good sized property but there have been times the wind had waft the smoke right into my neighbors open door. I hear the door close and I feel like the biggest loser out there!

    Posted 1 year ago #         
  20. Another idea would be to go to goodwill and buy some well used work boots SIZE 13 or bigger and put them on your porch ;)

    Posted 1 year ago #         
  21. Boy I sure wish my adjacent homeowner smoke issue was only cigarettes. I get the joy of a home filled with smoke from an outside fire located about 20 ft. below the grade at my home and I practicaly live in a cloud on the many days that the neighbor decides to have a fire, which is quite often.

    Neighbors such as this do not respond to a nice talk or simple request for consideration of others, they are simply people who have decided that consideration of other peopel is not important to them. Don't even get me started about the hundreds of times they block the alley with their parked cars.

    I will trade you this neighbor for a simple cigarrette smoke issue.

    Posted 1 year ago #         
  22. I'm with Helper Monkey. Talk to them. Even if you have tried in the past with other subjects, talk to them again. Until you have tried that, and explain WHY the smoke bothers you, you have no room to complain. However if that doesn't work, I do like the hose idea, or perhaps just a "poorly" placed sprinkler.

    Posted 1 year ago #         
  23. Mount a smoke detector in the path of the smoke!

    (But out of their reach)

    Mike

    Posted 1 year ago #         
  24. funkietoo
    Member Profile

    Mike (miws), IMHO--you win! A Smoke Detector--priceless. If WSeaFam2 does this, be sure to have a camcorder running because the first time it goes off, it will be hysterical. Then you can send it in to 'World's Funniest Videos'.

    Posted 1 year ago #         
  25. Mike for the win.

    Posted 1 year ago #         
  26. GenHillOne
    Member Profile

    fer crissake, talk to them...maybe even point out that a move would be helpful for the warm weather/when your window is open and not that you're chastising them in general. Smokers have few places to go these days and though not optimal for you, it's their yard.
    -
    Fans work great for pushing out hot air anyway, so a great idea. Since we only have one side of the story/history, who knows if they're aware of the issue or purposely aiming for your window, but if you start some of the passive-agressive business suggested, there's a good chance they'll be right under your window in no time. They aren't doing anything illegal (that's a slippery slope you're toeing, cjboffoli) and you won't have a leg to stand on.

    Posted 1 year ago #         
  27. me on 28th Ave SW
    Member Profile

    MargL: thank you for providing me the longest-laugh I have had all week. Those songs are truly impressive.

    Posted 1 year ago #         
  28. why bother confronting someone directly when passively posting anonymously on a neighborhood blog is just as good? they'll learn, right? /not.

    and I wasn't kidding about the hose, but I like the idea of a poorly placed sprinkler even better. ;)

    Posted 1 year ago #         
  29. WorldCitizen
    Member Profile

    zgh2676

    GenHillOne:

    THANK YOU!!

    Posted 1 year ago #         
  30. I'll go HelperMonkey one better . . .

    Sneak into the neighbors' house while they're away, hack their computer, and reprogram all their search engines so that, no matter what word they search on, all the results will take them directly to this thread . . .

    -What?
    -They don't have Internet?

    'kay. Never mind.

    Posted 1 year ago #         
  31. I think it is always the best solution to try to communicate and work with a neighbor. A handshake over the fence is absolutely the best way to remedy a problem. But unfortunately, there are some unreasonable people in the world. And what is one supposed to do when a neighbor refuses to work with you, even when you've done your best to be patient and diplomatic?

    I think the suggestions to put a fan in the window are ridiculous. A person should have the right to be able to use a window to ventilate their own house without the constant threat of having the inside of your house filled with carcinogenic cigarette smoke. Keeping very harmful smoke away from non-smokers should be the priority. That smokers don't have enough places to smoke is a bit farther down the list of priorities. Tens of thousands of non-smokers die every year in the US from exposure to cigarette smoke. I've not heard of any smokers dying because they were simply asked to move a bit farther from their neighbor's windows.

    And GenHillOne, talk about a slippery slope: "It's their yard." C'mon, REALLY? What does that mean? That because it is your yard you should be able to do anything you want there without any consideration of the neighbors who live ten feet away from you? I think that's a selfish and antisocial stance. I'm well aware of my rights. But those rights come with responsibilities which include balancing what makes me happy with consideration for my neighbors.

    That's really a red herring anyway though as WSeaFam2 isn't really talking about what is happening in his neighbor's yard. The issue is that the smoke is migrating across the property line. That's the textbook definition of a nuisance. King County has made it illegal for people to smoke outside at bus stops. And it is against State law for people to smoke in public places, which includes people who live in public housing. As a private homeowner and taxpayer why shouldn't I have some recourse when a neighbor's smoke is coming inside my house?

    If my neighbor wants to smoke in his yard, that's his choice. But I want to have a choice to not have to breathe his smoke inside my house. It is as simple as that. The 70's were over a long time ago. The EPA classifies cigarette smoke a "Group A" carcinogen, in the same category as benzene and asbestos. Just as you should not pollute your neighbor's yard with little clouds of asbestos, smokers need to act responsibly around the non-smokers down wind of their effluent.

    Posted 1 year ago #         
  32. GenHillOne
    Member Profile

    "It's their yard" means (and I thought I was clear) it's a legal place for them to smoke. Consideration, or lack there of, has nothing to do with it. It's legal. I'm not going to debate smoking with you, cjboffoli, because I've read your arguments on here a million times and they are delivered with a good dose of moral superiority.
    -
    I'm not usually in the "anti-nanny state" camp, but a law like cjboffoli is proposing opens up a real mess. Where will it draw the line? Cigarettes, barbecues, country music, neon house paint? So say I'm allergic to strawberries and cottonwood and can drop dead, even from second-hand exposure. Can I go to court to keep my neighbors from planting them? Or I have PTSD from military service and when triggered, I have violent thoughts. Can I go to court to keep my neighborhood from using pneumatic nailers? Your music gives me migraines. Your house color makes me see spots. I have a right to be healthy, yes? Say it's ridiculous, but you KNOW people will try once a precedent is set.

    Posted 1 year ago #         
  33. matthewdarling
    Member Profile

    matthewdarling

    Amen GenHillOne!

    Posted 1 year ago #         
  34. GenHillOne: There is nothing morally superior in asking a neighbor to move a reasonable distance from non-smokers that don't want to breathe their effluent. We're talking about someone who wants to keep harmful smoke out of the place where they live. They should have just as much right to do that as someone who wants to produce smoke on their property.

    The slippery slope logic sounds as weak to me as gay marriage opponents who say that allowing gay people to marry will lead to people wanting to marry farm animals. And I'm not going to take the bait suggesting that every extreme, rare sensitivity must be accommodated to justify protecting non-smokers from the very common and significantly harmful exposure to secondhand smoke. There are an estimated 5 million plus deaths a year worldwide from tobacco (and the leading cause of preventable death in the US). Maybe when deaths from strawberry and cottonwood allergies get to that point you can drop me a line.

    The City of Seattle has laws that cover lots of potential nuisances coming from a neighbors property: loud music (including Country I'd imagine), vermin, barking dogs, noxious weeds. King County will respond to complaints of wood smoke if it is unreasonably close and bothersome to neighbors. And considering that a charcoal fire, doused with lighter fluid, produces 100 times as much carbon monoxide as a gas grill, maybe lighting one close to your neighbor's window isn't such a good idea. The fact is, we wouldn't need a nanny state if people would just be more considerate, would follow laws that benefit a common good, and stop stomping their feet for their rights without considering their responsibility to others.

    But you're right. I see it as equally as useless to debate with self-serving smokers who have no choice but to smoke and seem to have a one track mind on this subject as well as an adherence to the fantasy that just because you cannot see the immediate harm of cigarette smoke that it must not exist. However, again, I see this subject as being more about courtesy than cigarette smoke. If you want to smoke, knock yourself out. But don't expect to inject it into the interior of my house with impunity.

    Posted 1 year ago #         
  35. It sounds like CJ is also in favor of suing a neighbor over a charcoal BBQ. I think that's where the 'slippery slope' fears show some validity. Law enforcement has no desire to enforce such subjective complaints, neither will a judge rule in his favor.

    " Washington Courts, 2010-04-19
    Author: Court of Appeals Division I State of Washington

    Intro:
    Christopher Boffoli filed a complaint for trespass, nuisance, and injunctive relief against his neighbor for producing cigarette smoke that intrudes into his home. The trial court denied Boffoli's demand for a jury trial. After a bench trial, the trial court entered judgment for the defendant. Because Boffoli fails to demonstrate error, we affirm. . . .

    In his amended complaint, Boffoli alleged that his neighbors, XXXX, "continuously smoke cigarettes on a south-facing front deck of their residence on a daily basis" causing smoke to "regularly intrude onto [his] property" through air intake vents and windows. Boffoli further alleged that he had asked the XXXX to remedy the situation and had sent them letters but that the XXXX "were unresponsive" and "continued to smoke cigarettes at their residence, thereby causing the secondhand smoke intrusion to [his] home to continue." Boffoli requested specific injunctive relief prohibiting the XXXX "from causing cigarette smoke particles and gases to intrude onto [Boffoli's] property, and . . . from allowing their guests or others to smoke on their property at any location from which the secondhand smoke particles and gases will trespass onto plaintiff's property or into his residence, and unreasonably interfere with [Boffoli's] use and enjoyment of his property." Boffoli also sought damages "in an amount to be determined at trial."

    On the day of trial, the trial court noted that the thrust of the complaint was an action for equitable relief and denied Boffoli's request for a jury trial. Boffoli and XXXX then testified and presented witnesses, other evidence, and argument. After a week's recess to allow the parties a final chance at settlement, the trial court stated, "The Court has concluded that based on the evidence, and the law, that there is no legal authority for the Court to issue this injunction," and dismissed the case. . . .

    On this briefing and on this limited record, Boffoli fails to establish an actionable claim of trespass or demonstrate any error by the trial court."

    I think everyone here agrees that we should all strive for courtesy and consideration. I just think trying to pass nanny laws and sue your neighbors is poor form.

    Posted 1 year ago #         
  36. This is the exactly basis of why this issue has had such urgency for me.

    Consider how you would feel if you had a neighbor who chain smoked ten feet away and directly upwind of the primary windows and air vents of your house. And you tried to be patient with this situation for over a year before keeping your windows closed on 80 degree days just didn't cut it any more. And when you finally approached that neighbor, apologetic for having to complain, their reaction to learning that their smoke was intruding INSIDE their neighbors house was to say "We don't care. We'll smoke where we like." The polite request was only that they move to the other side of their porch. They chose to articulate that they had a "right" to smoke where they liked. Even with my windows closed smoke would come into my house through fresh air intakes. Every single day I breathed smoke. My visiting guests, an 85 year-old grandmother, my 10 year-old niece, they had to breathe it too.

    So you approach their landlord. But he only cares about collecting the rent. He doesn't live in the neighborhood and doesn't care about the neighbors. He just owns the house to make money from it. And to protect his investment he has mandated in the lease that smoking take place outside, in exactly a place where it crosses over the property line onto someone else's property. You make it clear you are willing to work towards a solution. Fans, trees, partitions. But months go by and they do nothing.

    And what did these neighbors do when another neighbor complained about them making too much noise? They put up incredibly loud metal wind chimes. Likewise, after I complained about the cigarette smoke, they moved a charcoal grill as close as they could to my windows and used it just about every other day. Not a clean-burning gas grill, but thick charcoal smoke that would burn for more than an hour. Oh but that wasn't all. They were also nice enough to vandalize my car and my house simply because I politely asked them if they could move farther away from my windows when they smoke.

    City and the King County Board of Health could do nothing to help as the laws still reflect a suburban society with huge buffer zones between the houses. So I had the great pleasure of spending tens of thousands of dollars and three years simply fighting for the right to be able to open the windows of my own house without having its interior filled with cigarette smoke. Thanks to an 80 year-old judge (who happened to be a smoker), the case has had to drag on to higher courts. I tried patience and diplomacy for a year and a half. But you can only do so much when another party is unwilling to do anything. So I had no choice but to use the law to try to catalyze change.

    It is exceptionally clear to me who is guilty of "poor form" in this situation.

    Posted 1 year ago #         
  37. WorldCitizen
    Member Profile

    zgh2676

    This conversation is nice and all, but the ORIGINAL POSTER never said weather or not they politely asked them to move. Hypotheticals aside, talking to them still MIGHT be the easiest way...

    Posted 1 year ago #         
  38. World Citizen..you are correct. The OP didn't say that they had talked with the neighbors about the smoking. But...read post #7. He/she has communicated with them in the past regarding an errant pooch, to no avail. Sometimes you know when asking just isn't gonna cut it.

    Hey, through all of this,remember, at least the smoking wasn't immediately after sex....;->

    Posted 1 year ago #         
  39. your neighbors may or may not be smoking outside your window to annoy you

    if that's the case they are likely to be pleased to learn that it's working..

    not letting it get to you is the best antidote for that kind of malice.

    you have control over your space..
    you can regulate whether or not the smoke enters your window by putting a fan in the window..

    your home will be cooler
    the smoke will blow right back at them
    and the white noise will mask any comments they might make..

    win win

    this is a clear case of whether or not one person's right to pursuit of happiness trumps another's...

    if what they are doing isn't illegal..
    the answer is clearly that it doesn't.

    Some days i wish that was different...

    i think my peace of mind is more important than my neighbors right to grow blackberries up to their property line and over my fence and to play loud music and to lock their dogs out at night and to not lock their cats in.... and...

    but there you go ... if life was arranged to suit me some of you would be pretty bored ...
    don't drink.. don't smoke.. don't dance.. go to bed by 10 :(

    count your blessings.

    Posted 1 year ago #         

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