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1. WestS
   Member Profile

   ast night around 9PM when my husband, brother-in-law and I were walking out from the Safeway on California Ave. (Admiral Junction), we passed by a group of teenagers with skateboards. One of them, caucasian with blonde hair, yelled at me "Slanted- eyed bitch! Go back to Japan!" This racial comment made my husband and brother-in-law mad of course, and they talked to the kids. They didn't want to say who made that comment, though we knew who did.

   I know they are on a winter break, yet this incident made me wonder if their parents knew where their kids were at and what they were doing. Their parents might trust their kids that they wouldn't cause any trouble in public so they give the kids freedom. My question is what if they abuse the freedom then? Well, I believe the freedom should be taken away from them in order to teach them a lesson.

   If you think those kids are yours, you might want to advise them to behave. And if I run into them and give us the same kind of insult or any violence, I will go ahead call the police to press a charge on them, so they learn that there are rules in the society.

   Hope anyone who reads this might know who those kids are, and keep eyes on them.

   Posted 2 years ago #         

2. DBurns
   Member Profile

   

   This story really hurts my feelings. I hate that you had to face blatant ignorance and disrespect leaving the grocery store on a Monday night. It's so frustrating that kids get a little independence and act so badly. It is also sad that none of the kids stood up to their peer offender. I am glad that your husband and his brother spoke to them and hope it makes a difference - to at least one of the kids. I think calling the police is a good idea if you can somehow detain the kids or make a positive ID so that they really can learn about hate and what a serious crime it is.
   Happy New Year to you! I am sending positive thoughts to you as well as to that group of kids.

   Posted 2 years ago #         

3. Bonnie
   Member Profile

   That is terrible! I'm so sorry that happened to you. Their parents should be ashamed. I would be if my child ever acted that way.

   Posted 2 years ago #         

4. FrogBaseball
   Member Profile

   you are going to call the police and have them charged? for what? being an idiot and saying or believing dumb racist garbage is not a crime. sorry that these kids are idiots and hurt your feelings but this society allows the right to free speech and free thought whether you agree with it or not.

   Posted 2 years ago #         

5. flowerpetal
   Member Profile

   

   There might not be any law against hateful language; but that doesn't mean the police do not want to be made aware. Hate crimes often start with name calling. I would suggest that you report this even now. You will be thanked... by me and many others.
   I'm sorry this happened to you.

   Posted 2 years ago #         

6. Bonnie
   Member Profile

   Is dumb racist garbage a right to free speech?

   Posted 2 years ago #         

7. flowerpetal
   Member Profile

   

   Apparently so, the Westboro Baptist Church has been spewing it for years. The Aryan nation has spit their venom longer (and maybe farther).

   Posted 2 years ago #         

8. FrogBaseball
   Member Profile

   are people really advocating people being arrested for their THOUGHTS? is this the book 1984? sorry but the world is not some perfect peaceful place where buddhist prayer flags flitter away and everyone does yoga and drinks $8 soy lattes. people are allowed to hate or not hate, get over it and stop crying. the police have real problems to worry about.

   Posted 2 years ago #         

9. flowerpetal
   Member Profile

   

   I think you misread what was written. Nobody suggested that the police arrest someone for what they said or their thoughts. I do know that the police want to know about actions just like this... not so they can arrest someone; instead that they can be aware of the climate of the neighborhood.
   Is that clearer for you? It is perfectly acceptable to talk with police before a crime has been committed.

   Posted 2 years ago #         

10. WSB
    Member Profile

    

    As was discussed on Alki after last May's shooting, when some voiced concerns about being harassed by people on the beach.

    As for actual city law regarding harassment, here's the SMC wrt "malicious harassment":
    http://clerk.ci.seattle.wa.us/~scripts/nph-brs.exe?d=CODE&s1=12A.06.115.snum.&Sect5=CODE1&Sect6=HITOFF&l=20&p=1&u=/~public/code1.htm&r=1&f=G

    And then there's just plain "harassment":
    http://clerk.ci.seattle.wa.us/~scripts/nph-brs.exe?s1=&s2=harassment&S3=&Sect4=AND&l=20&Sect3=PLURON&Sect5=CODE1&d=CODE&p=1&u=%2F~public%2Fcode1.htm&r=9&Sect6=HITOFF&f=G

    Not saying either was necessarily applicable in what's described here, but in case anyone was interested in looking it up, those are the links from the ever-interesting Seattle Municipal Code.

    Posted 2 years ago #         

11. Cait
    Member Profile

    

    Frogbaseball - I don't think anyone wants them arrested or believes it's going to happen. And do you honestly think that we're discussing the 1st amendment here? We're on the level of common decency - not law. I appreciate that devil's advocate thing, but let's get real here: do you think the 1st amendment exists to protect idiot racists? It covers them... but that doesn't make it right. So the 1st amendment is really a non-issue here.

    Let's get back on target here.

    Posted 2 years ago #         

12. bluebird
    Member Profile

    Unless you feel physically threatened, please call the non emergency number at least. (206)733-9800 I hate to see our limited police resources going towards patrolling ignorant teenagers.

    This was an extremely offensive thing to have said to you, and some of your ideas should be carried out by the parents, as you suggest. I agree with frogbaseball though, about involving the police or trying to charge someone for their racist thoughts and words. They're allowed to be complete idiots until or unless you feel unsafe.

    Posted 2 years ago #         

13. FrogBaseball
    Member Profile

    exactly. if they threatened you then of course you should call the police. if someone simply called you an ugly doo doo head then move on and hope he says it to the wrong person who gives him the lumps he deserves.

    Posted 2 years ago #         

14. FrogBaseball
    Member Profile

    to Cait:
    "I don't think anyone wants them arrested or believes it's going to happen."

    well the original poster said "And if I run into them and give us the same kind of insult or any violence, I will go ahead call the police to press a charge on them, so they learn that there are rules in the society."

    they said if they use the same insult OR use violence they will call the police. if they said if they use violence then of course that makes sense but they said SPECIFICALLY that if the person said that offensive term again they would call the police and have them charged.
    so yes, someone is saying that.

    and yes the 1st amendment does protect racist idiots. the KKK are idiots but the reason they still exist is the 1st amendment, same goes for the westboro baptist church, the black israelites and every other hate group. the 1st amendment doesn't force you to like it or agree with it but it allows them to have their opinions. if you don't like that then maybe you can go to north korea, they make sure noone speaks their minds there.

    Posted 2 years ago #         

15. JoB
    Member Profile

    frogbaseball..

    there is a huge difference between someone calling you a ugly doo doo head and someone calling you a slanty eyed bitch.

    One is.. in most cases... merely rude.

    the other offensive and can lead to physical acts of violence.

    what is the difference between teens standing outside a grocery shouting racially offensive comments and writing them on a wall? Property rights?

    When i was a kid, i hated it that every adult around me seemed to know who i was and who my parents were and would either correct me themselves or immediately take me.. sometimes literally by the ear.. to my parents.... but that was how we all learned the limits of public acceptability.

    Having the police speak with a group of teens is a close as we have now to that dynamic. Reporting such incidents to the non-emergency number won't get a patrol car dispatched.. but it might spur a little more community education... or friendly chats with groups of teens while on patrol.

    Posted 2 years ago #         

16. Smitty
    Member Profile

    bump

    Posted 2 years ago #         

17. DBurns
    Member Profile

    

    Well I had to be sure, and talk to a couple of police officers before I wrote this - my brother is a former policeman and I have 2 pretty close Seattle Police officers who are my "go to" guys - all of whom said they ABSOLUTELY want to hear about these incidents. It's true that they are a limited and valueable resource, but they would much rather spend time on education and prevention then on incidents that have been taken to an extreme level.
    In my earlier post I stated that it would be a good idea to involve the police if you could somewhow detain the kids (follow them?) or make a positive ID so that they could be talked to perhaps at their home with an adult present. It's quite possible that these kids are from caring families and just really are ignorant to the consequences of this behavior. Everyone should want to know that they are behaving this way so that they will stop and then stop others as well.
    Teenagers are searching. They need guidance. They need this community!
    Thank you, OP, for letting us know about this incident so that we can all be reminded of ignorance and be informed on ways to handle it.

    Posted 2 years ago #         

18. Jiggers
    Member Profile

    

    Teenagers will be teenagers.

    Posted 2 years ago #         

19. JoB
    Member Profile

    jiggers jiggers jiggers :(

    Posted 2 years ago #         

20. Andre
    Member Profile

    I’m very sorry to read what the OP had to endure. It's hard for me to comprehend what led the kid to say something like that to someone’s face. This is way beyond some snotty comment that a child would spill out spontaneously.

    Teenagers will be what you teach them to be. Their behavior is almost always a reflection of their parent's behavior plus the environment they grow up in. Casually chalking up what happened to the OP to "Teenagers will be teenagers" is exactly the reason how things got screwed up in the first place.

    Posted 2 years ago #         

21. FrogBaseball
    Member Profile

    wait so kids saying words out loud is equal to defacing public property?
    come on now with stretching things.

    people can and will be hurtful and hateful. that is the world. get a grip on reality people.

    Posted 2 years ago #         

22. Jiggers
    Member Profile

    

    I don't condone what was said is right, but anything can happen when you let yourself out of your perfect little world. Going to the store, post office, mall, this isn't a perfect world we live in. I'll get charred here, most human beings aren't nice. Gorilla's treat each other better. That's the real world.

    Posted 2 years ago #         

23. velo_nut
    Member Profile

    

    sticks and stones?

    Posted 2 years ago #         

24. JanS
    Member Profile

    

    I have a 29 yo daughter. When she was a teenager, there wasn't much for kids to do, and, yes, she would hang out in the junction with her friends, and probably annoy people...we can't be with them 24-7. BUT...in my heart I knew that she would never, ever say something like was said to this person. I doubt that she would have even thought it (but what do I know?). It's appalling that there are teenagers who don't have the input from early on as to what is acceptable and what isn't. And, of course, there's that peer pressure thing...it counts more than people realize sometimes. What a shame.

    But, jiggers, I'm going to make an assumption here...you don't have kids. You're right in that we don't live in a perfect world, but I don't believe that most human beings aren't nice. And I'm basically cynical. If we simply excuse all of these things as "sticks and stones", as the "norm" for teenagers who will be teenagers, it won't change. It's not acceptable, and we shouldn't just dismiss it. If it was a black person that they were talking to, if that person had been called the "n" word, would we be just dismissing it? It takes a village, and sometimes a few of these little sh*ts need to be taught that some thoughts should remain in their heads and never be uttered.

    "First they came for the communists, and I did not speak out—because I was not a communist;
    Then they came for the trade unionists, and I did not speak out—because I was not a trade unionist;
    Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out—because I was not a Jew;
    Then they came for me—and there was no one left to speak out for me"

    Martin Niemoller (1892-1984)

    there are other versions, but you get the point, hopefully

    Posted 2 years ago #         

25. Cait
    Member Profile

    

    I don't believe the intention was to have them arrested, Frogbaseball. Just to have a couple of cops diffuse the situation, maybe? Or to bring in an authority figure of some sort in a potentially volitile situation? And if they were to do it again, that would be harassment in which case the non-emergency number should be called.

    I don't think it's a matter of liking the 1st amendment or not. No one is going to take these kids to the supreme court over this. It's a matter of what it does to a community.

    Thanks by the way for insinuating that because I don't think the 1st amendment plays a part here that I should go live in North Korea. I am fully aware of what not having it would mean, and I don't like that either. I just think it's dangerous to allow kids to think they can spout of at the mouth and be protected. Sure the law protects them... but that won't matter much when they say this around the wrong person.

    Posted 2 years ago #         

26. Jiggers
    Member Profile

    

    "First they came for the communists, and I did not speak out—because I was not a communist;
    Then they came for the trade unionists, and I did not speak out—because I was not a trade unionist;
    Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out—because I was not a Jew;
    Then they came for me—and there was no one left to speak out for me"

    LOL...Time to put that holiday nog down there..

    Posted 2 years ago #         

27. Garden_nymph
    Member Profile

    

    Growing up as a bi-racial, half Asian person, I am both disgusted and hurt by what was said to WestS. It pains me because West Seattle has been a haven to me and my family, a place where we have been accepted for who we are and not judged by our ethnicity. My daughter is a proud and confident pre-teen and although I realize there are hateful idiots in the world, I had thought better of West Seattle! I grew up hearing the stupid chant, "Chinese, Japanese, dirty knees, looks at these..." Look at WHAT- the IDIOT saying it?!
    It is normal developmental behavior for a toddler to grab a toy from another, but we TEACH it that grabbing in NOT acceptable. IF a child takes something that does not belong to him/her, we TEACH the child about EARNING what they want and not STEALING it. When an angry teen slams a door or is offensive to a parent,teacher,adult, we TEACH it acceptable ways to express anger. These teen boys have not been taught and it is our responsibility to do so if the parents have not. We have evolved as generations, physically and socially and to downplay this behavior to "teenagers will be teenagers" or "sticks and stones" is a step in the wrong direction! If these teens felt comfortable saying such hateful things when men were present, what may have happened if it were just WestS? If this behavior is not addressed, it could escalate. What then, would those of you accepting this behavior also defend them then? Frogbaseball and Velo_nut, you have spoken like true WHITE MEN who have not known how it feels to be made fun of for the shape of your eyes, the color of your skin or your gender. My father is a white man, but he possesses the empathy and compassion that you both lack. We need to stand together and proclaim that this behavior is not acceptable in "our back yard"; tolerance for this ugliness allows it to grow.

    Posted 2 years ago #         

28. velo_nut
    Member Profile

    

    maybe you should have called him a "doodie head cracka"

    Posted 2 years ago #         

29. Garden_nymph
    Member Profile

    

    VERY mature velo_nut!

    Posted 2 years ago #         

30. velo_nut
    Member Profile

    

    Guilty!

    Posted 2 years ago #         

31. JanS
    Member Profile

    

    so jiggers, would you quibble and make fun if I had said it came from a punk rock band?

    The song Exodus by Punk-Rock band Anti-Flag begins with "First they came for the communists, and I did not speak out, then they came for the socialists and I did not speak out, then they came for the trade unionists and I did not speak out, and then they came for me." This line is also repeated before the last verse of the song.

    Posted 2 years ago #         

32. velo_nut
    Member Profile

    

    Considering Anti Flag SUCKS. Really? Justin is a TOOL!

    Fat Mike's worst mistake ever was signing that band.

    oops... I hijacked the thread-

    Posted 2 years ago #         

33. FrogBaseball
    Member Profile

    hey garden_nymph

    i grew up as a white kid in brooklyn, ny. i called called cracker or honkey or any number of things by bigger people and bigger groups of people then you have ever seen in this town so don't give me that you don't understand cause you are white nonsense.
    the world is not a nice or fair place. it's as simple as that. either toughen up or cry about every little thing.

    Posted 2 years ago #         

34. FrogBaseball
    Member Profile

    ugh agreed on anti flag sucking. they stole a from ashes rise song note for note on one of their records. blatant ripoff.

    Posted 2 years ago #         

35. Garden_nymph
    Member Profile

    

    Frogbaseball,

    How very enlightened of you and your "I had to deal with it, so everyone else should have to also" approach! That philosophy perpetuates child abuse, domestic violence and hate. Wrong is wrong. We should be teaching the power of words; bullying often starts with name calling. The world is indeed "not a nice or fair place," but who's to say that we can't work to improve it? As a community we have donated to food drives, shoe drives, raised money, donated clothes and toys, created parks, planted trees and mourned the loss of neighbors. We keep a look out for lost pets, vehicles, etc. We inform others of suspicious cars and burglaries in our neighborhoods. We have made West Seattle a better place to live. Why can't we band together to make sure cruel behavior is not permitted and look out for our neighbors?! Instead of my toughening up, why don't you try a little compassion?

    The following website is worth a read. http://www.justpeace.org/village.htm

    Posted 2 years ago #         

36. JanS
    Member Profile

    

    good to see all the music experts on here. Judging the music wasn't the main idea. Listening to the words was. In another thread, this community bent over backwards to helps someone who couldn't take their cat with them when they moved. That's commendable. But...heaven forbid...someone is subjected to a racial slur, and too bad, so sad...toughen up and just deal with it, it's a cruel world. Wow...just the people I want for neighbors. We need to be, we CAN be, better than this. Velo-nut, I know you can be, ...how about you, Mr. frog? You're both seemingly intelligent. I think you hear what's being said, by those that you're arguing with. So...all those years of learning to not call Puerto Ricans "spics", or Italians "wops", Japanese people "Japs", Chinese people "Chinks", Germans "krauts"... ( I won't even go into what people call black people)...that education wasn't necessary? They should just toughen up and take it because it's a cruel world? Really? Because that's what I'm hearing from you. It's ugly...and not acceptable. We should all know better than that.

    Posted 2 years ago #         

37. JanS
    Member Profile

    

    TR and others...apologies if anything I say here offends someone...I am just using the words as examples. I hate those words.

    Posted 2 years ago #         

38. bluebird
    Member Profile

    Good grief. The discussion is whether or not it's a police matter, not whether or not it's wrong. Of course it's offensive, of course we should teach are children it's unacceptable. Of course we should do/say something when it is appropriate and necessary. But call the police every time this happens? You have to be kidding?

    And stop with all the accusation of those disagreeing, accept or don't care about racism. Bull! We disagree about calling the police. Period. So passive aggressive on this site. That's what's really discouraging. Can't even have a discussion on any topic.

    JanS, the last thread you addressed me on, you tried the "boy you just hate everyone on here" crap. Talk about the the issues. The merits. Don't try to bait me into arguing over who I do or do not like. Completely irrelevant distraction. Just like everyone in this thread trying to turn this into an argument about prejudice.

    Is this a police matter? I personally don't think it reaches that level. Discuss.

    Posted 2 years ago #         

39. FrogBaseball
    Member Profile

    sorry garden_nymph but i do believe being subjected to the real world makes you a stronger and better person. sticking your head in the sand and hoping that putting 5 coexist bumper stickers on your subaru wagon is gonna make the world hug each other is a bunch of nonsense. yes its nice to be nice and yes those kids are idiots. but you can not force people to like others all the time. anger is not always a bad thing, its part of being a human. being passive aggressive and a pushover isn't noble of you, its cowardly. the world is made of different people with different thoughts and life experiences, get used to that and life is a lot easier.

    Posted 2 years ago #         

40. JanS
    Member Profile

    

    as one of the posters stated, a police friend said that they'd want to know about it, if nothing more than to educate. I would never call 911 on something like this...but then, it doesn't happen to me, unless they talk about my age (I'm over 60 - lol). That's only offensive if I say it to myself. But...some on here are saying "teenagers will be teenagers"...and I can't accept that either. It's like saying "Oh, those kids ! They'll outgrow it" Well, they might not. So sometimes we can't just let things slide. Sadly, there are smartass kids out there who say and do whatever they want without consequences, and maybe they need to be pushed in the right direction. One day they'll say something to the wrong person, and that's when things get carried away.

    I'm just saying that I agree with you, bluebird...it's despicable, shouldn't happen...but short of educating them (because someone at home hasn't paid attention), it's difficult to do something . Sadly, what's left is letting it slide..until they grow up and take it further. There's way too much hate in this world already.

    Oh, and this being a public forum, conversations can go in many directions, and discussions can be very enlightening. We see that in a lot of threads. This forum works best sometimes when conversations get heated. It doesn't always have to be everyone agreeing and making nice with everyone else, as long as we're civil with one another. One of my intentions for this coming year ( no resolutions here) is to listen more carefully, and not assume things about people in online conversations. I know it gets me in trouble sometimes. I did that early on in this forum when it first started...and I was totally wrong about the person I made assumptions about...and now we're good friends in the flesh. Besides, if we all agreed all the time, how boring would that be.

    Posted 2 years ago #         

41. Laconique
    Member Profile

    Wow, FrogBaseball. My take on this was not that those kids were just angry, but that they were ignorant. Yeah, you can't expect people to be "nice" all the time and yeah, "anger is not always a bad thing." But ignorance, racism and hatred are NOT about anger, they are about fear, ignorance and power. You can teach kids to deal with their anger constructively and they can UNLEARN racism and hate.

    And Bluebird- if the cops have time to file reports for people offended by nudity, they have time to hear concerns about kids spouting hateful and potentially violence-inciting language. That's what community policing is all about.

    Posted 2 years ago #         

42. bluebird
    Member Profile

    I would love for the "community" to police this, not law enforcement. You'd think we were in Mayberry, not a big city. These aren't the days of foot patrols through every neighborhood, as nice as that would be.

    Posted 2 years ago #         

43. Jiggers
    Member Profile

    

    The police don't need to be called for people calling other people names,ridiculous. They have other things to do unless you have been physically attacked. And it is not your job to discipline someone elses kids either.

    Posted 2 years ago #         

44. Cait
    Member Profile

    

    Alright. I'll concede the cops don't need to be called. But I don't think anyone will get to complain when one of these kids pulls this again and gets the crap beat out of them.

    Posted 2 years ago #         

45. AlkiRagdoll
    Member Profile

    Geez this thread really pisses me off. and is one of the reasons that I am reading WSB less and less. Each thread seems to have someone who wants to in someone elses face, acting bigger and better than someone else, similar to the poison voiced by the teen. The behavior of the teen (or teens) is reprehensible. My guess is that this teen is learning this behavior at home, and thats a real problem for the rest of us. If you are a parent, I sure hope that besides worrying about paying your bills (like I do) that you spend some time teaching your kid(s) how to get along in the world instead of fueling hate. This is not "teens will be teens". Unless we want more fights, wars, and crime, we need to encourage teaching our young tolerance and common courtesy. No one likes a bully, but be sure, there is always a bigger bully.

    Posted 2 years ago #         

46. perseo
    Member Profile

    I think that it’s entirely appropriate to call the police. The young men were not exercising their free speech, they were harassing and trying to intimidate people. I believe that the police would like to know what’s going on and to be given an opportunity to talk to those young men and explain to them the error of their ways before some sort of escalation occurs, either from the young men or from the objects of their torments. It would not be hard to imagine that somebody would get very angry at their insults and beating the crud out of them, so calling the police is as much about their safety as it is about the rest of the community. A large part of police work is prevention and education. To just be their to respond to calls when it’s too late to effect change would not be the best use of our police department.

    I’m glad that the OP’s husband and brother in-law confronted the young men. Their behavior is flatly unacceptable and should be addressed. I don’t want to live in a community where people are worried about going to the grocery store because of the verbal abuse they will receive going there. And as far as the ‘teens will be teens’ argument goes, that’s just ridiculous. This wasn’t TP-ing somebody’s house. This was spouting out racial slurs and trying to intimidate people. I can't remember ever thinking when that was ever acceptable, even in my teenage years.

    Posted 2 years ago #         

47. flowerpetal
    Member Profile

    

    I'm unclear why we are still wondering if it is appropriate to inform the police about experiences like the OP had. We have read in posts above that the police have said "yes" we want to know. Are some of us just not reading all the posts? Or do we think we know better than the police about what it is they want to know?

    Posted 2 years ago #         

48. 2krazy4words
    Member Profile

    

    if it was the N word, the NAACP would be all over it! Teachers are fired or put on administrative leave for the "lack of sensitivity". How is this any different? That's why "Seattle Police officers who are my "go to" guys - all of whom said they ABSOLUTELY want to hear about these incidents." Hate crimes are still crimes...

    Posted 2 years ago #         

49. Cait
    Member Profile

    

    Editing my last comment. Now irrelevant.

    Posted 2 years ago #         

50. FrogBaseball
    Member Profile

    why was my last post deleted?

    Posted 2 years ago #         

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