Every Wednesday night, there are kids in front of West Seattle Baptist until at least 9:30, yelling and screaming, and sometimes as late as 11:00.
Doesn't this bother anyone else? I'm not the closest house, I know other people have to be hearing it. Is it just ignored because it's in a church? Is that why it's ok for their stickers to be littered everywhere as well?
pigeonmom
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I saw and heard them last week. One kid was climbing the little tree out front and I was surprised he didn't tear a limb off of it.
Very obnoxious indeed!
SarahScoot
Member Profile
I'm bothered by them, but only due to their faux-rebellious facade, behind which is the same conservative born-again Christian values as Mars Hill, et al.
I don't live near there, so I can't say I'm directly bothered by this behavior.
WSMom
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Have you talked to the leadership at Skate Church? I would be surprised if they didn't change their behavior if your brought it to their attention that you are bothered.
or perhaps talk with the people at West Seattle Baptist and let them know, too. The powers that be there may not know what's going on.Just a suggestion.
MrJT
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I'd much prefer a bit of noise once a week than their stickers all over everything up and down California Avenue.
The woman who leads Skate Church has been very proactive in talking with community groups and other outreach. A call or e-mail to her would likely go a long way. Her name is Serena Wastman and her contact info as well as lots of other contact info for leaders in Skate Church is here:
http://www.thejourneyoffaith.com/contact.html
Skate Church aka Foursquare Pentecostal is worse than most.
From Ken in a previous thread:
Thanks for the link, bluebird, made for a lot of interesting reading.
Found it humorously ironic the the radio station started by the very conservative 4-Sq. church is now KTLK 1150, the liberal talk-radio station in L.A.
We are the progressives, prepare to assimilate, resistance is futile.
contact the skate church...
it won't change their ministry..
but it might convince them that they need to find more activities for their participants..
away from the residential setting of the church
I have lived in West Seattle for 48 years and am deeply commited to my WS community. The last thing I want to see is my neighbors having trouble with something I am involved with. But the truth is I am one of the founding pastors of the skatechurch ministry. Kids are noisy, messy, and sometimes rude. Our goal is to help them stay out of trouble and become positive contributing members of our community. We are very succesful at this. We have been working with some of these kids for over eight years and have in our leadership team former graphiti artists, drug users, dealer and gang members. What you hear outside of the Baptist church is the sound of success. We are reaching alot of kids many who come from disfunctional backgrounds and broken homes. When they first arrive, yes, they are often noisy and rude, but it usually does not take long to influence their behavior and they start to want to behave in a positive manner. I would love to share more about our philosophy of ministry but it would take too much time to blog it in this forum. Please give me a call if you have any concerns about who we are or if the kids get too far out of line. Thank you for your understanding.
Pastor Rob Wastman 206-954-3180
PS Pastor Rob again. We will try and keep the kids quiet on Wednesday nights and clear them out before 9:30.
I'm part of the Journey of Faith, and new as a helper at the Skate Church. I see that these young leaders genuinely love the kids, and do care very much about the neighborhoods the kids live in, including where we meet. We want to build community with you, and will respond to your concerns.
We have new kids coming every week, some of whom are not used to accepting some gentle guidance. We want to provide a place where kids who truly are rebellious can discover not only that they're loved right where they're at, but that it's worth their own effort to consider others.
Last week I heard some of the young leaders saying to the kids things like "stay at the end over by California, not by the houses" ... "don't skate in the street right now -- cars are not expecting you" ... "could you pick up that trash over there for me please?" The boy hadn't left the trash, but did pick it up, because the leader who asked him to had just spent a couple hours demonstrating his care about him in the boy's native language -- fun!
Andrew Cameron
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Hey I'm a local Younglife leader in West Seattle, and a native West Seattlite. After growing up through the school system, and volunteering in the Middle School that I attended myself, our youth are consitently being exposed to extreme violence, sexual ludness, and pain. And its not our "public school system" at fault, but today's popular culture. Disfunctional homes dont help either. I was actually visiting the youthgroup last week when a rightfully upset gentlman and father came out at around 9:30 to greet us explaining that his children couldn't go to sleep because of the noise. Im not sure if that was you jsm, but being a burden to its neighbors is the complete opposite of the Skatechurch Youthgroup's intent! Yes, the youth that are attracted to them aren't perfect. And yes, they're most likely all incredibly obnoxious. BUT yes, they're all entitled to love and guidance that in many cases, isn't provided at home. The noise/ neighbor respect issue has always been a top prioity of the JOF team, although many times the broken kids of the yg aren't conscious of that.
And to Bluebird, the leadership of JOF simply love Jesus Christ and what he did for them. If those things in that link were true, then they are all incredibly unfortunate examples of how Christ followers were distracted, and I'm sorry your opinions have been influenced by them! But to label JOF as a cult is silly! Unless loving Jesus is part of the definition... if so, well pass over that coolaid goshdrnit!
....kidding.
Anyway, I love all you guys!
-Andrew
I think that this doesn't need to veer off into a discussion of beliefs. It needs to stay focused on the fact that some of these youth are not showing a great deal of respect for the neighborhood that is welcoming them. Perhaps the next Wed. evening get together should address that, and if there are any rules in this group, then they should be restated. Climbing immature trees, being loud and obnoxious are not neighborly when done in the evening that disrupt the neighborhood. It has nothing to do with religious beliefs, it has to do with common courtesy, perhaps something some of these kids haven't had much experience with. They want respect in this world, they have to give it to the world..pretty simple teaching, goshdarnit.
For your edification and amusement.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jesus_Camp
http://www.atheistnation.net/video/?video/00118/atheist/jesus-camp/
http://www.encyclopedia.com/video/_pTHM6OBRSQ-pentecostalism-child-abuse.aspx
and while it lasts...Die Sweet Roadrunner Die
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=doKK2l1Z5z0
Some of the above are not work safe for various reasons.
SarahScoot
Member Profile
Ken, Jesus Camp was a spectacular documentary. "For the Bible Tells Me So" is also great.
JanS - why can't it veer into beliefs? Are there thread rules on topics? Conversations evolve. Have you ever sat through a lunch and stuck to the opening line?
Three people have now come aboard to say yes, this activity is true, but we're doing jesus's work and saving them, so it's okay. That's their excuse. The type of kids we're "rescuing" are unruly, but we're fixing 'em.
I don't think these kids are broken. Bored maybe. I'd rather see them burn off some energy on a sports field or inside a community center where loud expression is encouraged. Plus, there are rules and requirements for play, not excuses. "Broken" homes don't make you rude. Lack of structure and guidance do.
And that darn popular culture. More excuses.
Bottom line, this is all about recruitment for their belief system, which does make it relevant. And foursquare pentecostal, invented by crazy con lady Aimee Semple McPherson, is harmful, not helpful.
bluebird..
to give him credit, the pastor did say that he was unaware of the noise issue and will take steps to rectify it....
I understand why you are troubled by ministries like the skate church. i don't know if the skate church is THE answer.. but it is an answer for some kids...
they old saying "you have to love yourself to love others" is as accurate as a generalization gets.. and one thing these types of groups do well is teach the kids to believe that someone cares.. that they should care themselves.. and that they have responsibility for themselves.
if they don't learn those lessons at home.. learning them through a skate camp type ministry isn't such a bad thing.
I too am concerned that so many kids transfer blind allegiance to a gang to blind allegiance towards a ministry since i don't believe blind allegiance to anything is good for anyone....
but i applaud them learning the first steps towards self respect and hopefully towards self actualization.
Those steps have led many a troubled kid to success.
The skate church does need to be mindful of being good neighbors... teaching kids to respect only the church won't turn them into productive citizens... but at least they have created a program to help those kids.
If we don't want mostly faith based initiative social programs, we have to fund them publicly... something we as a society are becoming less willing to do.
bluebird...
I know some very nice responsible citizens who find a great deal to appreciate in the foursquare Pentacostal church that the "crazy con lady Aimee Semple McPherson" founded.
I also know many who have blind allegiance to a gospel that they use mainly to justify their right to their own selfish behavior...
Unfortunately, all founders of religious sects are just a little.. or a lot.. crazy.
religion isn't the problem.. it's what some people make of it that is so discouraging.
JoB, that kind of sounds like the "guns don't kill people" line :)
Oh my god that roadrunner bit is amazing.
I just continue to wonder when/where the outreach programs for the left-wing ministries disappeared. When I was a kid, the "Jesus freaks" had principles that tended toward the progressive end of the spectrum, concentrating more on Jesus' teachings of love and forgiveness, charity and community, rather than picking and choosing pieces of Leviticus to support their prejudices.
Cait
Member Profile
OK - being rather young myself - I HATE it when people start making excuses for kids' behavior. "It's the media" "it's the school system" "it's their friends" - NO. IT'S NOT! But do you know how awesome it is to have those excuses to fall back on when you're 14 and you want to raise a little hell? Little Johnny isn't being a jerk in public because of music videos, he's doing it because you think it's because of music videos. Deal with the behavior itself and quit accepting this behavior because blaming it on something so huge and out of your control sounds a lot like acceptance to a teenager.
I've noticed these kids acting up to (namely any time I go to Lee's or Kamei and I'm surprised no one from these businesses has said anything yet.) And here's an idea - if it's a Skate Church - give these kids a place to skate that's not on the sidewalk!
Aside from all that, I'm glad that someone just stepped up and said they'd deal with it. I'm sure they're great kids that are just a little rough around the edges as far as manners go - but uhhh... can't they do that somewhere that's not a tiny sidewalk? Thanks though, for listening and not getting bristly with us complainers. Though I might not agree with the ideology, that's impressive.
dawsonct: I don't know if you would call it "left-wing", but Lutheran Youth of North Seattle (LYONS) is one such group that very much supports that philosophy, with branches for middle and high schoolers. It's supported by about eight different congregations but is open to all kids. I'm sure there are many others.
Of course I feel for members of my community who are enduring disruptive or rude behavior, but I also can't help but being glad that kids are getting away from their electronic devices for some fun and exercise, and that there are volunteers willing to be there for them. As a parent of a middle-schooler, I also know how much energy they have, how much work it is to teach them, and how sometimes we have to ask for a little tolerance and patience from those around us while we're doing it. (That's not making excuses for unacceptable behavior, though.)
blubird...
no.. guns do kill people.
Pentacostal churches produce as many responsible caring citizens as they do wing nuts.. it's just that the wing nuts get all the attention.
Ignorant self righteous self serving people can be found anywhere.
I think, with any type of group, the wing nuts always get the most attention
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