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(53 posts)

size matters?


  1. I was out to dinner last night and overheard a conversation about engagement rings. A woman was going on about how she and her beloved picked out a ring but when he presented it to her it was a much smaller diamond. It was a joke, of course.

    I have worked with other women who have said that the engagement ring better be big or it was an insult. Now, I've never been a ring person so this whole big ring thing is puzzling to me.

    Can anyone offer an explanation why and expensive/big engagement ring is the only way to go? Why is it an insult to only afford a small one? If it isn't as big as you want is it a deal breaker?

    Posted 1 year ago #         
  2. well, I never had an engagement ring...wonder if that's why my marriage failed? lol...

    honestly, sometimes a couple simply can't afford a big ring, and who cares, anyway? My daughter's engagement ring has a diamond in it from an old ring that belonged to my father. It's 1/2 carat, isn't huge, and it's beautiful in it's new setting. And I know her fiance loves her just as much now, if not more than, before they became engaged.

    Posted 1 year ago #         
  3. flowerpetal
    Member Profile

    flowerpetal

    I'm thinking if a diamond size can make or break a proposal of marriage this couple is doomed early on. You can't get much more shallow than that. I'm sure there are equally shallow deal breakers that guys impose too.

    Posted 1 year ago #         
  4. flowerpetal...I'm sure there are women who impose other ones, too...how big? NO WAY !!! lolol...

    Posted 1 year ago #         
  5. Reminds me of an old commercial of a guy and his girlfriend are looking at flat screen TV's and he says "we should get the bigger one or we'll just regret it later on.

    The next shot is them picking out her engagement ring and I sure you can figure out her comment...

    Posted 1 year ago #         
  6. I've never understood it personally, but I've also seen the peer pressure behind ring size too. I remember a girlfriend who got engaged right out of high school. She was so proud of her ring and showed it off happily, but was made fun of for it because it was not much bigger than a diamond chip, and they told her her fiance was cheap. I thought it was awful how they treated her - it was a beautiful ring that symbolized their love. My engagement ring was a new setting that holds my mother's engagement ring diamond. So my husband got off easy in terms of cost. :) But I would've gone with a tiny, inexpensive ring too, had he been paying.

    To me, it's a waste to spend so much $ on rings and weddings. My ring and wedding were very modest in price, and I'm married 13 years now. Yet I know people who spent 5x what we did and were divorced in a year. I'll take my experience over theirs. :)

    Posted 1 year ago #         
  7. tom kelley
    Member Profile

    Earnest money?

    Posted 1 year ago #         
  8. SarahScoot
    Member Profile

    SarahScoot

    I used to work with a young woman who knew exactly the engagement ring she wanted, and would actually say that her boyfriend had better not even try to propose to her without that ring (or a bigger one) in hand. And yes, she informed said boyfriend of this expectation.
    Scarily, it worked out for her, and he proposed. Ick.
    I had hoped he would dump her, preferably in a public place, announcing her shallowness to all (she was a nasty person in other ways, too... she regularly made fun of customers with mental impairments/psychological illnesses/beat-up cars...)

    Posted 1 year ago #         
  9. curiouslyinquisitive
    Member Profile

    curiouslyinquisitive

    I was never big on diamonds. The DeBeers / Oppenheimer diamond hoarding company would have you believe that diamonds are rare when in fact they are more common then one would think. DeBeers has bought up most of the diamond mines around the world and forced the closure of some.... They control the majority of the diamond market. Being the top dog... DeBeers wanted to control the demand as well as the supply. In 1938 Harry Oppenheimer got N.W. Ayer, advertising agency, onboard... and there began a commercial campaign to win/brain wash the american people... into changing the

    "social attitudes of the public at large and thereby channel American spending toward larger and more expensive diamonds instead of "competitive luxuries." Specifically, the Ayer study stressed the need to strengthen the association in the public's mind of diamonds with romance. Since "young men buy over 90% of all engagement rings" it would be crucial to inculcate in them the idea that diamonds were a gift of love: the larger and finer the diamond, the greater the expression of love. Similarly, young women had to be encouraged to view diamonds as an integral part of any romantic courtship."

    and sadly the DeBeers did and still do today and across the globe. here is one of many articles about this ... but I liked this one best:

    http://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/1982/02/have-you-ever-tried-to-sell-a-diamond/4575/

    Download the word version click here

    Posted 1 year ago #         
  10. curiouslyinquisitive
    Member Profile

    curiouslyinquisitive

    I don't care for diamonds... though I do like the ideal of rings... the circle... symbol of eternity... if I may TJ(thread jack) in my opinon... Jewelry is not necessary to make someone look better... but if it makes you feel better then hav at it (I don't mean that in a bad way)... jewelry is like clothing from my perspective.

    Posted 1 year ago #         
  11. charlabob
    Member Profile

    charlabob

    Well, I got an engagement vintage convertible and I loved it -- we finally sold it a couple of years ago because it wasn't likely to stay vintage in our Seattle weather.

    But Carnelius ('69 Red Chrysler Newport with black leather seats and red fuzzy dice) meant love -- accepting who I was and what I wanted (instead of what the world wanted me to want.)

    My first marriage included the obligatory diamond, impressive at the time but, honestly, I can't remember it at all. :-)

    Posted 1 year ago #         
  12. I wear mine because my husband bought it for me...
    and i have to admit.. the memory of him on bended knee proffering this diamond still brings a tear to my eye...
    but i would so much prefer not to have a ring at all.

    although i will tell you...
    there is a definite difference in the way shopkeepers treat me when i wear it :(

    it's my missus badge...
    size and sparkle confer status..

    the good news?
    unlike a tattoo..
    you can take it off

    Posted 1 year ago #         
  13. My engagement bands have small sapphires that are flush with the bands (there are two, worn on either side of the wedding band, which also has sapphires on it). I didn't want something that protrudes because it would catch on things. I'm hard on my personal possessions.

    I've never cared for diamonds; I mean they're pretty and all but I don't feel the need to own them. I have a big problem with the diamond industry in general and if my husband were to give me a diamond, I'd prefer it if it were a manufactured one. I love that we have the technology to MAKE diamonds, I mean is that awesome or what?

    Today he is spending the morning making super-spicy chili because I have a cold. Now THAT's love. :)

    Posted 1 year ago #         
  14. Jiggers
    Member Profile

    Jiggers

    Women won't tell you because its the truth how much money you spend on her ring to show what her self worth is. I hate to say it, but guys are stupid on this matter.

    Posted 1 year ago #         
  15. jiggers...

    i beg to differ...
    if he had wanted to show me how much i meant to him
    he should have asked whether or not i wanted a ring
    and whether or not i wanted a protruding diamond
    and asked me to help pick out my own ring
    after all.. i am the one who wears it every day

    when a man chooses your ring..
    it's all about him
    not about you.

    Posted 1 year ago #         
  16. You know what, Jiggers? I have no idea how much my husband spent on my ring, and I don't care.

    You might not believe me, but that doesn't really matter. I'm not married to you.

    Posted 1 year ago #         
  17. . . . and then there's the little issue of why some guys would agree to buy a ring (of any size) and get married in the first place . . . when that's not really the first thing on their minds.

    Ladies: please don't pretend you don't know what I'm talking about or that you have never personally known any guys like this.

    And Guys: please don't pretend like this thought has never crossed your minds, either.

    We all do favors and get favors in return. All kinds.

    Not passing judgment, here. Just stating facts.

     

    Posted 1 year ago #         
  18. Lindsey
    Member Profile

    Lindsey

    Datamuse: My thoughts exactly! I don't know how much my guy spent. The sentiment behind it is the same, no matter the ring.

    (Also, I discovered hyperboleandahalf because of your avatar and read the whole thing last weekend! I love it! So thanks.)

    DP: Oh come on. People get married for all sorts of reasons.

    Posted 1 year ago #         
  19. Actually, DP, it was his idea, and it took him several years to convince me.

    I may, in fact, be the only woman on Earth who never fantasized about her wedding. But I doubt it.

    (Lindsey: it's fun, isn't it? A friend of mine made a knitted Alot last fall, so cute.)

    Posted 1 year ago #         
  20. "size and sparkle confer status.."

    Really?
    Wow, just wow.

    Posted 1 year ago #         
  21. It all comes down to insecurity.

    The woman wants a big ring to show her friends and out do others and impress (does not work btw).

    The man buys a big ring because he is afraid the woman will be mad, disappointed or will say no.

    Listen to the women on here that said it did not matter, I would guess that is more the norm.

    Posted 1 year ago #         
  22. jimmyg

    just for giggles...

    why do you think so many men stretch their bank accounts to buy the most impressive car they can?
    or stretch their bank accounts to buy their women the most impressive car they can?
    or stretch their bank accounts to buy the most impressive house they can?
    or clothing with designer labels?

    size and sparkle...

    when it comes to status..
    it's all size and sparkle.

    I didn't say that was a good thing...
    just that it is what it is

    Posted 1 year ago #         
  23. tanyar23
    Member Profile

    Huh...and here I thought this would've been a much more entertaining thread.

    Posted 1 year ago #         
  24. RarelyEver
    Member Profile

    RarelyEver

    my husband got his ring from a street vendor on telegraph avenue in berkeley - for $6. i got mine off ebay. we've been happily married for 7 years. :)

    Posted 1 year ago #         
  25. R/E, that's romantic.

    Can't just lurk on this one. We have NO rings and we've been under one roof 25 years, married for 14 of them, many many more to go. In our old-married-couple wisdom (and if being in a 24/7 business together for 3+ years hasn't broken us up, nothing ever will) the last line of post #13 gets more to the heart of the matter. And I do mean heart. Regardless of whether you have a rock or something out of a Cracker Jack prize packet.

    Posted 1 year ago #         
  26. WSB..
    i couldn't agree more...

    I so could have done without a ring...
    it has literally been a pain to me every day i have worn it...
    the things we do for love...

    Posted 1 year ago #         
  27. Present company excepted, ok? Just want to get that straight first . . . So ladies, don't hate on me for what I'm about to say.

    Any woman who brags excessively about the size of her diamond is one of two things:

        1. From Texas
        2. Making an even bigger statement about her other assets

    –if you know what I mean by "assets."

    Engagement ring bragging is the female equivalent of male locker-room swagger. By displaying her stone in an obtrusive fashion, a woman is saying, in effect, "Look at me, girls! What a trophy I must be to get a ring like this, huh!"

    Notice that women only do this around other women, the same way that guys brag about their "conquests" only around other guys.

    And it's not just because of decorum, either.

    If a guy started talking conquests around a woman, he'd be taking a huge risk of her calling bullshit on him ("Sorry, Pee-wee, but you ain't all that!") Likewise, if a woman starts flashing her new stone around a guy who's of the right age to be interested in her, she's taking a risk of him looking her over in front of everyone and making an expression like: "What? You? Two carats? Nah."

     

    Posted 1 year ago #         
  28. DP...

    i particularly like this quote..

    ""a circular instrument placed upon the noses of hogs and the fingers of women to restrain them and bring them into subjection."

    "The bigger and heavier the circlet, the bigger and better the standing of the wedded pair."

    http://www.weddingringorigins.com/

    from wiki we learn that wedding rings weren't typically worn by men until the 20th century and that diamonds weren't typically part of an engagement (betrothal) ring until the 1930s

    the engagement ring belongs to the man until the marriage is legal.. they are the one exception in the laws covering the giving of gifts..

    "In some states of the United States, engagement rings are considered "conditional gifts" under the legal rules of property. This is an exception to the general rule that gifts cannot be revoked once properly given"

    a man identifies a woman as promised to him by placing his property on her finger...

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Engagement_ring

    i could go on and on..
    the history of weddings, betrothals, gifts, dowry's and property laws is endlessly fascinating to me.. and a real revelation to most young women who consider themselves beyond all of that ancient history...

    so... who is shallow here?
    the man who purchases the ring ..
    which belongs to him even though he gave it to her
    or the woman who appreciates it?

    personally.. i'm with charla.
    i would have preferred a car.
    with clear title..

    Posted 1 year ago #         
  29. Jiggers
    Member Profile

    Jiggers

    Car or ring? Why expect anything? So men are shallow for buying a wedding ring? Men over the last century have been groomed into thinking that buying a wedding ring is must or no deal. I find it very hard to believe that a woman would turn down a diamond ring in hand of marriage. The poor guy would be lucky to not have to foot the bill that would set him back awhile.

    Posted 1 year ago #         
  30. jiggers...

    it's called a betrothal gift....
    a thank you from the guy
    since her parents are expected to pay for the wedding in lieu of a dowry...
    and the wedding is where the engaged couple rake in all the loot that sets them up for married life

    i should feel sorry for the poor guy..
    who makes his own decision whether or not to buy a ring
    gets to decide how much he will pay for it
    and owns it until the woman fulfills her contract to marry him
    ????

    why?

    does he have to pay back her parents if he leaves her standing at the alter? well... no..

    it's pretty funny watching you guys try to come up with ways that you are the poor downtrodden minority...

    having to give up for even partial equality sucks..
    doesn't it.

    Posted 1 year ago #         
  31. tanyar23
    Member Profile

    First, I have been with my husband for 16.5 years. However, married since 2000. No engagement rings. Yeah, we did get wedding rings, and they're nothing fancy. I love him.

    And here's where I'm gonna hijack this thread. Legalize gay marriage.

    Posted 1 year ago #         
  32. Thanks tanyar23 for the jack!

    Posted 1 year ago #         
  33. tanyar23: funny you should mention gay marriage. My partner and I have been together for over 14 years and never really had to worry about an engagement ring since we can't yet get married. We do wear simple bands to indicate that we are in a committed relationship. If she ever did present me with an engagement ring I'd give her a look that I've given her many, many times in the last 14 years, basically amounting to WTF? And she would do the same to me if I presented her with an engagement ring.

    Most of our friends are heterosexual so I can't really say if same sex couples go through the same pressures to get a huge engagement ring.

    Posted 1 year ago #         
  34. Love is love...

    Posted 1 year ago #         
  35. tanyar23
    Member Profile

    Wise words zen.

    Posted 1 year ago #         
  36. Maude...

    There is something different about same sex relationships... equality.
    personally i think it's an advantage.

    it's not enough to make me give up on the fella i married...
    but it's enough to make me envious.

    oh... i know... in time ... when all the controversy wears off... your relationships will have all those built in expectations that muck up communication too ...
    but for now.. from this side of the fence... it looks like a should free zone :)

    Posted 1 year ago #         
  37. I have been with my husband for 16.5 years.

    Well, tanya, the first 16.5 are always the hardest . . . so it looks like you're in the clear. (I tease; you're never really in the clear.)

    Meanwhile, JoB said:

    it's pretty funny watching you guys try to come up with ways that you are the poor downtrodden minority...

    Really, JoB? I would say you've picked a pretty odd context in which to accuse us guys of playing the martyr. We were talking about how much guys are expected to shell out for a wedding ring . . . remember?

    If you're talking about the martyrdom of marriage, I have this to say: for each female friend of yours who has been oppressed by marriage, I can name you a male friend of mine who has been equally oppressed.*
     
    -DP
     

     

    *I'm talking only about people we know personally here, not people from a village in Guatemala or something.

    Posted 1 year ago #         
  38. DP...

    so the poor guy is "expected" to shell out for an engagement ring?

    but why does he do so?
    because an engagement ring marks his intended as someone who has made a promise to another.
    the size and sparkle of the ring denote the affluence and "power" of the contender.

    Women aren't the only ones who notice that ring on the finger ...

    As for oppression...

    how the heck did you make the leap from property rights to oppression?

    i will admit that an unsubstantiated belief in property rights often leads to oppression...
    but that's another tale for another time.

    please please bring it up again...
    i just love hauling out the stats on that one :->

    Posted 1 year ago #         
  39. Jo, you're the one who brought up the word "downtrodden" (i.e., oppressed). And I think you're the one reading "property rights" into this thing, too. I'm not the one who used that term, you are. (I said "assets" — but I meant it in a different sense altogether.)

    But now that you mention it, property rights are one aspect of the inequality that always has, and always will, plague the relations between the sexes. The other is something that maude alludes to in another post: namely, division of labor.

    Until about 30 years ago, married women in this country generally got the short end of the stick on both counts: property and division of labor. During the marriage, women had to do most of the work, while receiving little recognition from men of the real value of that work. If the marriage ended, women were rarely granted a share of the "proceeds" equal to what they had contributed.

    But now that's changing, and women are starting to even the score. Some women are getting more than even, in fact, and I can tell you stories from personal experience.

    Go ahead and cite all the statistics you want. I won't contest them. Just remember that statistics only tell part of the story. And I repeat my earlier challenge to you: for every tale of some poor woman you know who's been abused by a cad, I can give you a similar story of some poor schmuck who got taken to the cleaners.

    You said you were fascinated by discussions of marriage, so let's rumble . . .

    (Maybe we should sell tickets.)

    Posted 1 year ago #         
  40. Y'all may be interested to know that Stephanie Coontz, who is the author of Marriage, A History and The Way We Never Were: American Families and the Nostalgia Trap and is a professor at Evergreen, will be on Colbert Report tonight...

    Posted 1 year ago #         
  41. DP...

    LOL...

    while i am certain your wife is requiring you to do more housework than you anticipated when you married.. poor hubby is similarly burdened... i am still willing to bet that the overall burden of "housework" is hers.

    Hubby's comment last fall said it all.
    I was too ill to dismantle our watering system and take in the hoses last fall so i asked him to do that for me.
    When he had finished.. he commented that i should remind him how much work that was next spring because he never realized what a big job it was.

    Home making is a huge job..
    and although men do take on more tasks than they once did...
    at the end of the day there is still plenty left to do.

    Hubby works every day and gets weekends off.
    I don't :(

    Posted 1 year ago #         
  42. COL...

    Housework / homemaking is one thing. Who gets to keep the house afterward is another.

    I'm a marvellous housekeeper. Every time I leave a man, I keep his house.

    —Zsa Zsa Gabor

     

     

    COL = Crying Out Loud
     

    Posted 1 year ago #         
  43. DP...

    again.. nasty truth intrudes.

    while Zsa Zsa may have been able to keep the house every time she left a man

    the statistics prove that a woman's standard of living is far more likely to decline following divorce ...both short and long term ... than a man's. Ditto for their kids.

    yup.. it's true. look it up for yourself.

    Posted 1 year ago #         
  44. who keeps? Hah!. Divorced in Nov. '95. 4 month hospitalized illness in spring '96. Ex hubby who wanted his share....wouldn't even come mow the frikkin' lawn for me while I recovered from a very major surgery and lived off of all my savings because I couldn't work. Upkeep on the house suffered....sold in Dec. 97 so I could pay off ex-hubby. Bad taste in my mouth for men in general for about 4 years after that. Now used to the independence and a simpler way of life. Yes, it's only one story, DP...don't act like men are so put upon...I'd argue with you on every turn. :-\

    Posted 1 year ago #         
  45. oh, and DP? 15 yo daughter was my responsibility. She lived with me the entire time...when I was hospitalized he moved back in with her RENT FREE. She never ever once visited him for a weekend, ever. She grew up with me. Still lives next door to me, and she's 30 now - lol. Sort of like moving home again, but not quite. I used to think that no one won financially in a divorce, but...speaking from experience, I can say that, at least for me, the woman suffered just a tad more. (and never an engagement ring...never a diamond of any kind, not even a chip in a watch!)

    We all have a story..this tit for tat stuff gets old.

    Posted 1 year ago #         
  46. JanS, not to get too personal(and not sure of your age, so not trying to offend!), but if your ex is retired and collecting SS you are entitled to an amount equal to 50% of his SS check - whether you work or not.

    If the amount you receive is higher, then of course you should just take that.

    Just always like to make sure people know that.

    Posted 1 year ago #         
  47. oh, I'm well aware of that, Smitty. I listened to my mom, who always said, get 'em young and raise 'em right - lol...he's 5 years younger than me...and I haven't reached retirement age just yet.I will start collecting in a couple of years. We'll see what he's doing then.There were a lot of years that I was a SAHM, and didn't put money into the SS pool....much to my detriment.He has contributed much more than me.

    Posted 1 year ago #         
  48. Harmonic
    Member Profile

    I have a decent sized ring. my hubby said to the jeweler, I want it to sparkle and i want it to be klutz proof. is that so bad? I never expected any of that, would have been happy with a diamond chip, a cracker box ring, a tattoo. My husband is sweet enough to make sure that it could endure Harmonic. Does that make me a jerk? This thread seems to indicate that. there is and was nothing but sweetness behind his intent. and my ring is beautiful. he wanted to do it, and i love it!

    Posted 1 year ago #         
  49. Harmonic...

    i love what my ring represents...
    the love of my husband.
    it's pretty wonderful to look down when his hand is holding mine and see my ring sparkling.

    i would love it better if i only wore it on special occasions.
    but that's my personal problem

    Posted 1 year ago #         
  50. DP...don't act like men are so put upon......I'd argue with you on every turn.

    —This I believe. This I believe!

    OK, I won't tell you my stories then.

    I was going to tell you one about Zsa Zsa and me . . . but newwwwwwp! Not now. No way.

    Posted 1 year ago #         

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