ToddinWestwood
Member Profile
I mean hey, we get the short end of the stick on everything.
The city spent how much to build Paul Allen his choo-choo train, we got squat. Roxbury is falling apart. It has the second largest volume of traffic in and out of West Seattle next to the Bridge. I am sure everyone has a beef with Seattle not taking care of us. Whats yours?
We can manage ourselves and \"our\" issues much better than waiting for Seattle.
Anyone with me?
if it means we get a new mayor.. i am all for it:)
beachdrivegirl
Member Profile
Sounds great in idea, but i believe it is really very difficult to actually happen. My sister who lives in W.Valley in Yakima has been advicating to become there own city for at least six years (maybe more...) and it is not that easy because we would need our own fire department, police department, city hall etc... I could try to find out more info from her if you would like.
westseattledood
Member Profile
Hmmm....
Do you think we could get our own West Seattle flag?
That might be a nice touch.
ToddinWestwood
Member Profile
I was thinking in a more \"pirate\" way. Lets take what we need. Seattle has taken from us for a long time with out giving us anything back.
charlabob
Member Profile
But would we be required to *WEAR* the flag on our lapels? If yes, could it please be purple and orange (so it won\'t clash with every other thing I wear?)
JenV
Member Profile
hellz yeah! i am all for secession! we might as well, anyway, since the \"mainstream media\" doesn\'t even know we exist...
when Jim McDermott is thru in the other Washington, I propose we elect him Mayor of West Seattle.
westseattledood
Member Profile
Well then, we evidently shall have a purple and orange flag.
Now, perhaps some one creative could come up with a perky, pithy sea chanty to sing whilst we pirate about our home sweet home.
Aaaarrrrrggggghhhh!!!
In the late sixties.. i lived in a portion of Portland called St Johns... which was actually cut off from the main body of Portland by both railroad bridges and a bridge over the Willamette..
There was serious talk that come the revolution.. all we had to do was blow the bridges and hunker down in safety:)
look at my cheek..my tongue is in it...but...3 bridges and we\'re good to go - lol
(lest someone takes us literally, and thinks we\'re gonna become WS \"terrorists\" - lol)
JanS...
yes.. i can just see it..
us with our shopping carts full of tnt.. pushing them like bag ladies onto the bridge...
what is wrong with this picture ????
oh yes.. your hospital is on the other side:)
and it will be some time before you can walk that far... and i can only in my dreams...
LOL
WS has always been on the short end of the stick. A tongue in cheek petition was posted in the junction a few years ago and gathered an embarrassingly high number of signatures in a few days! Most of the ire was directed at the Spokane St nightmare. We had passed a bond issue to put up money for a new bridge and the city ignored it saying that it wasn’t enough to even “study†it. We lost a police precinct and fire station in the junction when the city needed the money for something else. In fact, the petition proposal was pretty well thought out. The dividing line would be the Duwamish River and all of that commercial property would easily support a WS government. We could even contract police and fire services from adjoining communities until we had our own. The city took it seriously and it generated a lot of worry for the city council. Before anything could happen, the bridge was struck and the north span was damaged.
Senator Magnusson came to the rescue by passing a special budget item in Congress to build the present bridge and the idea withered. It\'s passage BTW was a navigation issue and was easily passed (nobody messed with Maggie).
and where\'s Charlie Chong when we need him...in a sort of \"history repeating itself\" article...here\'s a paragraph from something written in 1996..
\"In Seattle, for instance, you can hear an eerie redux of the arguments made by San Fernando Valley homeowners. Middle- and upper-income residents of the affluent, mostly white suburb of West Seattle feel they are being neglected by the city government. \"We don\'t see the investment in our area that we see downtown,\" complains Charlie Chong, a leader of the movement. Secessionists in West Seattle complain they pay more in taxes than they receive in services and worry about development ruining West Seattle\'s character. In 1994, the city published a land-use plan that would have allowed an increase in low-income housing in West Seattle. Residents threatened to secede, arguing that if they had control over land-use decisions, they would plan for lower density, more libraries and increased police protection.\"
I was beginning to think, \"This would not be a bad idea\" and then after reading some of the comments here I am absolutely opposed to the idea.
Comments were funny though.
Why am I having visions of Lord of the Flies...
Maybe we could keep our SPD precinct, which seems to be pretty efficient lately, and our competent firemen, but have a flag anyway? I don\'t know about purple and orange, Charlabob - if it faded, might people mistake it for purple and gold? How about light purple with a brown baby seal in the middle?
ToddinWestwood
Member Profile
\"Ralph wept for the end of innocence, the darkness of man\'s heart, and the fall through the air of the true, wise friend called Piggy.\"
- William Golding, Lord of the Flies, Chapter 12
Damn, I am going to have to read it again. I love that book.
KatherineL, that\'s a great idea to have a baby seal be our symbol. I love it.
Gina
Member Profile
Don\'t forget library service. The items in the libraries belong to the City of Seattle. As does the land and the buildings.
yesyesyes, let\'s do it, and we can get a troll - but better than fremont\'s!
thelmasue...depending on what thread you read here, we may already have a troll - lol...
charlabob
Member Profile
Um, I lived in Boston back then -- we called this pork:
\"Senator Magnusson came to the rescue by passing a special budget item in Congress to build the present bridge and the idea withered. It\'s passage BTW was a navigation issue and was easily passed (nobody messed with Maggie).\"
OTOH, the widened bridge Senator Tsongas got for us, to make the Concord battle reenactments safer, was called a public necessity. :-)
Nope, Katherine, we\'ll just have to get fadeproof orange -- I am reasonable, however; an orange seal would be wonderful. How about we get the graffiti artist who did the cats on admiral to make stylized seals?
Otherwise, I\'m afraid I\'ll have to break away from the new Province of Wester Seattle (POWs) and revolt. I\'m sure I can be revolting if I put my mind to it.
(I know JenV -- now I owe you two keyboards and a set of washable keycaps -- I don\'t think this was funny enough to earn a third keyboard.)
JenV
Member Profile
hahahahaha! :-)
ToddinWestwood
Member Profile
This was a kinda a joke thread. I love W.S. but the city has me peeved. The city throws money sacks at Paul Allen to develop S.Lake Union. Now they are talking about building him a new Mercer onramp to make it easier to get into and out of S.L.U.
The city told me they dont want to spend money on fixing Roxbury because it is the border between Seattle and King Co. So basically we down here get nada.
People already think we have! During KEXP\'s last fund drive, one of the DJs was exhorting local cities to contribute: \"Come on, Bellevue! Kirkland! West Seattle!\"
I know it\'s silly, but I was really pissed off. WE ARE IN SEATTLE.
With the 99 tunnel bypassing a downtown exit, which is essential for West Seattle workers to get downtown, the failure of any light rail to be extended to West Seattle even though it has been extended and is planned to be extended to all other parts of the city, and the continuing urban decay of delridge because of the citys failure to fix roads build sidewalks, and fund community centers , I believe West Seattle should again (1995) seriously consider Municipal incorporation as the City of West Seattle
Still can't believe re the 99 tunnel. What can (whoever) be THINKING.
HunterG
Member Profile
What would we call ourselves if not West Seattle?
miws
Member Profile
Wesseattle. ;-)
Mike
Genesee Hill
Member Profile
West Texas Seattle. Rick Perry as honorary mayor. Todd Palin as First Dude.
Oh my.
i would have to move.
wait.
the 99 mess will probably mean i have to anyway:(
maplesyrup
Member Profile
You know what would be really cool? If we could just elect a mayor from West Seattle who might take a bigger interest in this part of the city. Maybe if the voters from WS showed up in force and supported such a candidate we could get a few favors thrown our way...
Oh, wait. I guess too many of us voted for Mayor McSchwinn because they were mad about a snowstorm.
waynster
Member Profile
Hmmm another oportunity for a split from the city...could we dig a moat and hang signs that say caution life better here then the emerald city and call it the Jet city again and make fun of fremont and ballard...and we must annex rat city I mean white center hmmmm could we look at women gardening without getting in trouble where do I sign up .....!
redblack
Member Profile
ws4ever: you realize that a downtown exit from a 200-feet deep tunnel would be, like, at a 45-degree angle, right? maybe a big corkscrew? or it would enter/exit somewhere around broadway on capitol hill. :) not to mention that it would require the boring of another tunnel or a Y or something...
teasing aside, a shallower, less expensive tunnel would allow WSDOT to put an entrance/exit closer to central downtown.
but in full-speed-ahead-with-the-DBT reality, there will be an entrance/exit to/from 99 at king street, or you will be able take the tunnel through downtown - for a toll.
hey, joelobster ... your first post ever on WSB and you resurrect a thread from 3 years ago?? And then you claim, "... [light rail] has been extended and is planned to be extended to all other parts of the city..." Zackly what city are you in? Not Seattle, cuz I can name lots of city parts that light rail hasn't been extended to and that there are no plans to extend it to ...
ws4ever -- so what's your solution, if not the tunnel?
redblack -- Can't do a shallower tunnel cuz of the pilings supporting the current viaduct & Battery St tunnel, sewer trunk lines, the RR tunnel, building support pilings, etc. This simulation shows all the stuff the tunnel has to dodge:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mWfwnkEbc4Q
maybe we should call ourselves 'McGinnville' or 'Schwinn City' Or 'Whine Country' In that case, our motto could be, 'Bring Cheese and Crackers When You Move Here, Cuz We Got More Whine Than Seattle!"
Pibal
Member Profile
HunterG asks: "What would we call ourselves if not West Seattle?"
Well, why not select a name representative of a mix of us, our history, a nod to romance, and our local topography?
Since we may well be at the end of our exasperated rope with Seattle's inattentiveness, you could say that we are at the endolyne. Home of that streetcar line's last stop is an area first named Fauntleroy by George Davidson in 1857. It turns out that that was the same year that Alki landowner Charles Terry threw in the towel and swapped his land with Doc Maynard's Pioneer Square holdings. Thus was marked the first official abandonment of our sacred place by Seattleites.
And don't we love our home here as much as George Davidson loved Elinor Fauntleroy of Indiana? And isn't therefore that name connected in time to the first Alki Exodus? And doesn't the state transportation system even provide us a waterborne means to exit our home from that same neighborhood without having to transit Seattle proper?
And yet we own the highest ridgeline in the incorporated area. One would think those with such commanding views would be cherished and listened to.
And so, it is clear what we must call ourselves: Fauntcrest!
Forgotten
Abandoned
Underserved
Neighborhoods of
Terrific
Citizens
Refusing to
Endorse
Seattle's
Thoughtlessness
Where do I sign???
Genesee Hill
Member Profile
Many people would love to live in West Seattle. Problems? Some.
Gorgeous quotient: In spades.
Mississippi like: No
Whiners? You betcha
Secede from Seattle? Only if you are dumber than a fence post.
WorldCitizen
Member Profile
No tunnel exits to downtown, sure, but isn't there going to be a surface street with a number of roads accessing downtown streets? Wouldn't this, in effect be providing MORE access to downtown?
redblack
Member Profile
metrognome: not entirely so, grasshopper. neither a cut-and-cover nor a lidded trench would interfere with those. especially since AWV would have to be demolished before any cut-and-cover tunnel is built.
and as we all know, AWV is a disaster waiting to happen. so why leave it in place until 2016?
the integrated tunnel/seawall - which voters rejected by a huge margin in '07 - and the lidded trench options both call for a short elevated structure to connect 99 at the waterfront to BST. new connections/construction won't undermine it, as WSDOT determined in '06.
we all know the sewer trunk lines are beyond their lifespan, so replacing them would be a win-win.
the BNSF tunnel? well, do we undermine it with a DBT or do we go over it with a shallower tunnel? from an engineering standpoint, i think the latter is more feasible.
what else ya' got?
redblack
Member Profile
regarding whining, why should seattle taxpayers foot a huge chunk of the bill for replacement of a highway that serves king county pretty much exclusively, yet not have any say in its design?
mcginn is right.
RB, what are you wanting? Dreamworld aside what option takes down the viaduct and still lets traffic travel through downtown? your axe is getting dull my friend. Beers on you.
redblack -- the tortured 'logic' you used in post 40 is so illogical it can't be refuted by a logical answer.
First, BOTH alternatives at the time were rejected by voters; the bored tunnel was not voted on as it was not under consideration at that time.
Second, the C&C 'tunnel' would have had a completely different alignment and would have been smack in the liquefaction zone. Also, the viaduct would have had to have been torn down first. And construction would have shut down Alaskan Way in sections and blocked access to Colman Dock. Merchants would go out of business and Ivar would rise from his grave to sue. The resulting traffic jam would have brought Seattle to its knees and allowed Tacoma to laugh their aspidistras off at us for being so stupid. These are indirect costs that aren't calculated in determining project costs; I'm betting that when the cost of traffic jams and merchant losses are folded in, the C&C tunnel would be way more expensive than the bored tunnel.
I worked at Metro when the bus tunnel was being dug; while the deep bore section caused surface disruption, it was nothing in comparison to the chaos caused by the C&C tunnel from Westlake to Convention Place.
And replacing those sewage pipes wouldn't be cheap.
http://www.wsdot.wa.gov/Projects/Viaduct/tunnelcomparison.htm
Mcginn is right? huh? about what? About being a stubborn sob? yeh, He's awesome. Please point out any accomplishments besides "trying" to keep community centers open.
redblack
Member Profile
hoffanimal: for one thing, we don't have a budget deficit, and we didn't have to suffer austerity cuts that other cities have suffered.
metrognome: heh. "tortured logic," huh? i could say the same thing.
for example, looking at your posts in 3 different threads, i see that
1. seattle should have to pay for a $4 billion state highway replacement with no discussion of that funding or the planning thereof.
2. we can't tax ourselves to build intra-city rail because it's too expensive, too hard, and according to you and you alone, there's not enough demand - despite the fact that buses to and from west seattle are SRO at rush hour.
3. metro is the greatest thing since sliced bread, even though it faces severe budget cuts and gets stuck in the same traffic as cars.
you know, i'm willing to take the bet that bringing down AWV sooner rather than later wouldn't kill downtown businesses or cause half of the traffic doomsday that DBT supporters predict.
i'm also going to bet that DBT burns through its meager 15% contingency fund pretty quickly and that the state is going to come to seattle with its hand out more than once before this whole thing is finished.
other cities have suffered having major arterials cut and repaired. so will seattle.
if you think i'm being naive, that's fine. but would you at least please do me the courtesy of discussing balancing the budget for the DBT? because at this point, it's a giant unfunded mess with a state-mandated cap on tolling.
redblack
Member Profile
okay, well i guess i hit a nerve.
consider this: things are going to look a bit different from west seattle and ballard - and points beyond - in 2 years.
by that time, a wider spokane street viaduct will have two exits for downtown-bound traffic via 1st and 4th in the morning, and a spiffy new southbound-westbound on-ramp at 1st - which looks as if it might be able to handle a speed limit merge.
lower spokane street will be reopened, with wider lanes, and will be reconnected to the swing bridge, the N/S avenues, airport way, and I-5.
99 will have an exit at king street. (hopefully this will happen before DBT portal construction.)
alaskan way will again be a through route, and will not have BNSF tracks separating it from 1st avenue during train hook-ups. (to me, this is huge. especially considering that the atlantic street overcrossing will keep freight moving over the tracks, as well.)
mercer street will be two-way; will connect 15th ave NW, 99, westlake, fairview, eastlake, and I-5; and it will more effectively distribute traffic onto the avenues through downtown.
metrognome, you have long contended that not enough west seattleites go through downtown to justify rail to ballard, or even a metro route linking west seattle to other neighborhoods.
so if everyone is downtown-bound, why would any west seattleite - or ballard denizen - want to use or pay for a tunnel, or be tolled to use that route when there are so many improved alternatives?
and how much freight really uses that corridor? a couple of concrete plants, waste management, and some local mills, to be sure. but most freight to/from/through seattle is being accommodated by the port between spokane street and atlantic street.
considering those, DBT is starting to look pretty extravagant to me.
we're just discussing here, right? kind of like a couple of guys hunched over beers in the corner pocket trying to fix the world, right? we don't need to insult or injure one another.
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