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Seattle Police Speed Trap

Started 3 years ago by rickygee
Latest reply from miws

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rickygee
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Highland Park Drive was a crazy scene today with FIVE SPD stealth cruisers parked in a line waiting for prey, looking like taxis at SeaTac.

You would think there might be better things for a few of those fine officers to do, but I guess the recession is so bad that SPD must turn to money-making, mass, traffic stops.

This action disgusts me and further erodes my confidence in our local authorities.

So as not to get a ticket myself, I drove slowly uphill several times, flashing my brights to warn fellow citizens of the police state below. Of course the cops weren't paying attention to uphill traffic. They know the real money is on drivers trying to keep under the 30mph limit while going down a very long hill.

SHAME ON THEM!

Posted 3 years ago #
westseattledood
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I live right up the road and I did not see that. Do you live there? Or were you just one of the drivers passing through?

Because I DO live up that road, I am not surprised one bit that SPD did something like that. The volume of cars is high. Many if not most of them are over the speed limit. Cars go through a 30 mph at about 45+ all day. Every day. And, that's NOT even on the hill - up or down. This area I'm referring to also includes a school zone where cars completely disregard the 20 mph all of the time.

Aside from the school zone, there are also a whole lot of kids who live at the top of the hill. Does this REALLY need explanation why SPD is making a statement here?

So, the real shame is on the habitual speeders for speeding down 9th Ave, disregarding a school zone and continuing to speed down the hill.

Drivers should down shift to slow down or use their brakes. Shame is on the drivers.

Posted 3 years ago #
Diana
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Thank you SPD for your excellent work! Lots of speeders were nailed on Admiral Way today and your presence in our community is much appreciated.

Posted 3 years ago #
DavidF
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I agree with Diana.

Posted 3 years ago #
Ken
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So Complaining about SPD enforcing the law is what it took to get you to register and post on WSB?

Well congratulations.

This hardly qualifies as a speed trap though.

I got my only ticket in 40 years of driving at the northgate onramp to I-5 when I had to punch it to merge with the crazies coming off the express lane headed north.

The laser on the overpass was a speed trap.
It was the luck of the draw in a target rich environment that day.

That was WSP.

People speeding on residential streets and arterials only seem to respond to enforcement.

You did.

Now going up the hill they would have got me at 36 mph since I must maintain that speed to climb the hill or my little 4 cylinder would downshift to first and redline to maintain 25mph.

Posted 3 years ago #
hopey
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Hey guess what?
The sergeant in charge of the SPD's Aggressive Drivers Response Team (those 'stealth' cruisers you mentioned) lives in West Seattle. He's my next-door neighbor. :D

Also please note that the Aggressive Drivers Response Team is a special police unit. No officers were removed from other areas to do this job. Traffic enforcement, specifically in problem areas like Highland Park Way, is their full-time job. More info here: http://www.cityofseattle.net/police/programs/emphasis/Aggressive.htm

Posted 3 years ago #
datamuse
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Good for SPD. I live near the top of Highland Park Way and if I had a dollar for every time I've been tailgated going down OR up that hill, I'd be able to fill my gas tank for a month. (And I drive 70 miles every day, y'all.)

Posted 3 years ago #
westseattledood
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Hopey -

Fabulous information! Most excellent!

Please, let your neighbor/officer know that the work he and his Team did here in HP today is appreciated.

Posted 3 years ago #
pigeonmom
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I'd like to see the Aggressive Drivers Response Team on 35th more often!

Posted 3 years ago #
Zenguy
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No kidding Pidgeonmom!

Posted 3 years ago #
flowerpetal
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Hooray for the SPD. Need we recount the tragic deaths and injuries on our arterials in WS? I know that all of these weren't due to speed; but some were.
If I could get the police to clock and ticket cars on Trenton, I'd be taking them out coffee and fresh baked goods while they waited for the next speeder.

Posted 3 years ago #
Anonymous
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I wish the SPD could enforce the speed limit on Highland Park Drive (especially downhill) 24/7. It is rare to see a vehicle moving less than ten mph over the speed limit. The speed limit there is 30mph. East/south of W Marginal Way SW, the speed limit is 35mph until south of the Hwy. 99 underpass, where it increases to 40mph, then 60mph on Hwy. 599 after the stoplight.

Posted 3 years ago #
grr
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they could make a months worth of ticket quota $$ if they'd just hang out on my street a little more. It's the Daytona 500 every day.

Posted 3 years ago #
mom2soren
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I'm in accord with the original poster. I always shudder when passing a group of cops in wait. They're like spiders looking for prey.

Posted 3 years ago #
Wylie_snoop
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Break the law - pay the price...don't speed.

Posted 3 years ago #
CheriBerri
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My fiance got caught in that speed trap a year ago! it was a very scary situation

Posted 3 years ago #
JimmyG
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What was so scary about getting a speeding ticket?
I can understand being ticked off about getting one, but "a very scary situation"?

Posted 3 years ago #
BarbG
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the only reason to shudder when going past a bunch of cops is if you are doing something wrong. And if you are doing something wrong, then you pay the consequences and get a ticket.

Posted 3 years ago #
flowerpetal
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Many people shudder when going by the police and it may have nothing to do with "doing something wrong." I don't shudder; but I know people who do. If you are an immigrant with prior experiences of brutal police; if you are in a racial minority who carries memories of targeted police brutality; you might shudder without doing something wrong.
I don't get to decide what is a "reasonable fear" for someone else.

Posted 3 years ago #
BarbG
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you are absolutely right flowerpetal, and if mom2soren and CheriBerri's fiance were victims of brutal police or are racial minorities targeted by police brutality then I apologize to them for my comments.

Posted 3 years ago #
rickygee
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I do, in fact, live in the neighborhood. So mine is not just a passing opinion. I drive that hill every day. The speed limit should be 35, not 30. (except when it snows) -Yes, I registered on the blog to state my opinion. What does that have to do with anything? Um, isn't that kinda the point? Speed traps suck. They make me hate cops. Your opposing opinions are duly noted...mine, however, still stands. I will do all I legally can to thwart "my neighbor," Mr. Aggressive Drivers Response Team and his Dodge Pony frat boys.

Whenever there is a surplus of authority with guns and sanctimonious law-ing around, lights a-flashin, I find it scary.

Posted 3 years ago #
mom2soren
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I'm law abiding, actually never speed, and white. I've never been targeted based on culture/color (a despicable practice). However, for me it's the "big brother" aspect of it all. I prefer neighborhood friendliness, especially from the police. It's my belief that people need to give each other a break, practice tolerance, and argue for a police force that directs time/energy towards real criminals. NOT towards my neighbors who might speed or do something else petty. Our resources are limited (including police force), let's work on decreasing the homicide and domestic violence rates.

Posted 3 years ago #
RainyDay1235
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I'm all for speeding tickets - especially at crosswalks and school zones. But I can only imagine how it would affect the crime rates around here if there were more patrolling officers - just making their presence known.

Posted 3 years ago #
westseattledood
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Something to ponder, perhaps, for perspective regarding the ACTUAL number and volume of high speed violators we are all referring to here. Also, bear in mind that there are children on this arterial. This is an excerpt from the May 2007 edition of the SW Precinct Newsletter. This was one of the first actions after the Team was formed.

"The Seattle Police Department Traffic Section has
begun a new tactic in traffic enforcement. The
“Aggressive Drivers Response Team” uses plain
Dodge Chargers with concealed red and blue lights
in areas of Seattle that historically have high rates of aggressive and illegal driving. On May 3rd the Aggressive Drivers Response Team worked the hill on Highland Park Way SW for 90 minutes. They made 50 traffic stops, which resulted in 88 traffic citations being issued. 18 of the stops made were for over 50 mph. The highest speed was 56 mph in a 30 zone."

And, you know what? If you were scared by the whole robocop approach, that is the point. Pay attention to your speed limit or work to get the speed limit changed, if THAT is now your point. You didn't mention that at all in your original post. If you really find the ADRP objectionable, doing what you did is, in a big picture context, meaningless. You seem articulate. Why not show up at the next Crime Prevention Council meeting and voice your complaint?

Posted 3 years ago #
hopey
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Hear, hear!

We have laws for a reason. They need to be enforced. If the laws are never enforced, then they are meaningless.

I believe all of you who oppose speed enforcement would feel very differently if your beloved pet or, god forbid, your child or another family member was hit by one of those drivers going 50 mph in a 30 mph zone.

Also, I will try to check with my neighbor to confirm, but I believe the ADRT was formed with special funds only available for speed enforcement. I don't think it was open funding for the police department to use as they saw fit.

Posted 3 years ago #
rickygee
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Dear westseattledood, please spare me your snarky self-righteousness. I really don't see a point to you and I having a conversation about this issue since I just wanted to rant and you just want to be right. And don't lecture me on what I should do, didn't do, or the meaninglessness of my actions. All hail our mighty overlords and their enabling minions. We are all safe now.

Posted 3 years ago #
rickygee
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PS:

"They made 50 traffic stops, which resulted in 88 traffic citations being issued."

Not one warning among them. Imagine that. Just citations. Quite the money maker it would seem. Which I believe WAS part of my initial rant.

Posted 3 years ago #
alki_2008
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I'll throw in my 2 cents.

I don't like speed traps because they don't seem to be targeting "aggressive" or "dangerous" drivers. In a 30-mph zone...I'd rather see the police ticket someone that's cutting people off or tailgating while driving 30-mph, rather than ticket someone that's going 36-mph and not doing any of those 'aggressive/dangerous' things.

Posted 3 years ago #
westseattledood
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rickygee -

Edited: This is about public safety where kids hang. Speeding cars around kids is not conducive to public safety. Yeah, they made money because there are a lot of people being idiots. If you can't address the fact that your behavior explicitly encouraged aggressive driving behavior, there'll be no conversation because of that. Not because you say so or I opt to spare you further any of my snarky self-righteousness.

Posted 3 years ago #
westseattledood
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Alki_2008 -

For all we know, there could have been citations for tailgating and warnings given; they might not have published it in the newsletter. Lots of tailgating going on there always, like every other arterial.

Posted 3 years ago #
alki_2008
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wsd - yes, I'm all for those types of tickets (dangerous/aggressive)...but the speed traps seem to issue a lot of tickets to folks that are only marginally 'speeding'. Safe/attentive driving at only a few miles over the speed limit (ie, 36 in a 30) seems more like a revenue generator, and those are the types of tickets that leave a sour impression of speed traps. Seems that if they focused ONLY on dangerous/aggressive drivers, then they could have 1 car at a location and then have the resources to staff multiple locations and really be keeping us "safer".

Posted 3 years ago #
westseattledood
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Since none of us know the actual numbers/stats for the recent "event", I've asked WSB to see if they are willing to make official inquiries. Then we'll see what we can see from that, eh?

'nuff for now.

Posted 3 years ago #
Anonymous
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When I've seen the Chargers, they're all lined up in a row at the very bottom of Highland Park Way. There's a business entrance (out of sight) just around the last corner down by Marginal way. No kids. Not even any houses.

I know they're there. I drive in second and ride my brakes. It's still extremely difficult to keep it to 30 at that point. Kind of thinking that does qualify as a speed trap, but maybe there are a lot of accidents at that intersection.

I'd personally rather see them them on I-35.

Posted 3 years ago #
JoB
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What constitutes a speed trap?

that term used to refer to a small town on a two lane hiway that required traffic on the hiway to slow to a crawl so that they could collect traffic ticket dollars...

now it seems that if there is more than one police car monitoring speeding in an area.. it is referred to as a speed trap...

How unfair of them to lower the odds that you can speed through without getting caught.

i suppose the difference between thinking that enforcing the speed limit constitutes a speed trap is whether you habitually speed in the area or you are habitually impacted by speeders...

my guess is that those who are impacted by the speeders don't look at active enforcement as a trap...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Speed_trap

Posted 3 years ago #
BarbG
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JoB, I'm not sure, but I think that I actually agree with you.

Posted 3 years ago #
alki_2008
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JoB, this part of the wikipedia entry you linked is what I consider a "speed trap": In many of these uses, the term speed trap connotes speed limit enforcement for purposes of ticket revenue or traffic deterrence instead of safety.

I don't care how many cars are sitting there, whether it's 1 or 5. If they're sitting there waiting for anyone to come by a few miles over the limit, rather than targeting folks that are really driving 'fast' or agressively or dangerously...then that's what I'm opposed to.

Posted 3 years ago #
BarbG
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alki_2008, just an fyi for you, anything over the speed limit is "fast", and can actually be considered aggressive or dangerous, that is why speed limits are made. So if you are opposed to getting pulled over then slow down.

Posted 3 years ago #
Synergy3k
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What I find funny is the backs of the chargers. The one that's parked in front of my house every other morning on 35th has a "baby on board" sticker on it's rear bumper. He's usually parked there when I come back from my AM coffee run. It's sort of funny to hear the engine gunning when he's caught another one...a nice view from my front window so long as he's not coming after me!

Posted 3 years ago #
JoB
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alki-2008...

what i take issue with is the idea that the intention behind speed limit enforcement in an area is to generate revenue...

though i have to admit i kind of like the idea of speeders subsidizing the officer who shows up when i am burgled...

or traffic deterrence ...

which i appreciate when they target the side streets that become freeways during rush hour...

Could it be they are simply responding to complaints from those who actually live in the area and have to play russian roulette to pull out of their side street or driveway?

Traveling 5 to 10 miles over the speed limit may be safe on a freeway or a limited access arterial... but those are never posted at 30mph.

When you hit a pedestrian or someone on a bike or a car pulling out of a side street or drive.. those "few" miles per hour can be the difference between injury and death for the person you hit.

Posted speed limits are supposed to be the safest maximum speed to allow reaction time for the unexpected on the road you are driving.

sure.. you can get by going faster nearly every time.. but when the unexpected happens.. you are likely to be glad you were driving slowly enough to avoid killing someone.

Posted 3 years ago #
RainyDay1235
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Side note: Something I see on the Eastside often (and very rarely on the Westside) are "crosswalk traps". They even have a "pedestrian" stand on the corner and cross every time with a motorcyle cop hiding behind the utiltiy pole (or whatever). Love to see MORE of that, given the resources...

Posted 3 years ago #
IslandLvr
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Thanks for the reminder to slow down =)

Posted 3 years ago #
StringCheese
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I live at the top of Highland Park Way and take the hill multiple times a day. For those of you who take this hill, you will know that it is virtually impossible to go 30 down this extremely long, very steep hill. It takes less than 4 seconds to go from 30 to 50 down this hill - WITHOUT ever pressing the gas and only slightly longer when braking.

In driver's ed I was taught to check you speedometer every 20-30 seconds. You clearly can't be looking at your speedometer all of the time or else you would be a VERY dangerous driver indeed.

It takes 4 seconds and 45 does not "feel" fast. You simply don't realize. Take your eyes off of the speedometer to look for traffic coming off of SW Othello and you're cooked.

I have children who play at the park at the top of the hill. I walk that hill during bad storms to clear the drains. I have not received a speeding ticket in my 20 years of driving (you do the math there) and I have been ticketed twice in the past six months. Aggressive? No. Inconsiderate? No. Dangerous? No. Angry about targeting people on a steep-arse hill? You betcha.

So, now I stare at my speedometer on the hill and I feel a much worse driver for it.

Posted 3 years ago #
alki_2008
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BarbG - Thanks for the FYI to define the word fast to me. FYI to you, I put quotes around the word 'fast' because (in my opinion) it's a subjective decision of what is 'fast' or 'slow'. To me..."speeding" is over the limit, "fast" is what 'seems' fast considering the conditions and environment. For example, driving the speed limit (whatever it is) when the roads are slick or icy is "fast" - but not "speeding".

JoB - my issue with the hard-and-fast speed limits is partially reflected by what stringcheese mentioned. The Admiral Hill has a speed limit of 30mph, and it only takes a few seconds with your foot off the brake to get over 30mph. There isn't much chance of someone darting into the street (on west, downhill side) and so I don't see why 30mph is necessary...it seems that 35-40mph, which is what I usually drive, is safe enough.

And accidents...it's not always about the speed. There are some cases where drivers/walkers/bikers are not as careful as they could be. This isn't always the case, but it does happen. Personally, my car was sent into a spin when I was driving on a busy street (~50mph, not over the limit) and someone darted out from in front of a parked minivan to run across the street. I had to swerve to avoid hitting him and almost went off the road myself. Guess that would be my fault because I'm in the car...even if I'm not "speeding"?

One of the things that gets to me is the notion that any driver going over the speed limit is more dangerous than someone driving at/below the speed limit. How about the drivers that back out of their driveways into oncoming traffic without looking, or nose out of driveways so the nose of their car is halfway into the lane of oncoming traffic and then just sit there...as though the oncoming traffic can actually get past them. I guess if they're driving below the speed limit, then there's nothing 'aggressive' or 'dangerous' about the way they're driving? And crosswalks, there are plenty of people driving under the speed limit that almost hit people that are trying to cross the street (with the light). How about targeting those types of drivers, rather than nailing every person that's slightly over the speed limit?

Posted 3 years ago #
westseattledood
Member Profile

The Seattle Municipal Code makes it clear when speed is to be reduced.

It's all about the grade of a Hill and a curve in the road. Have a look see.

And keep in mind:

If folks want to fight their tickets, they can request hearings.

If folks want to fight the Muni Code, well, rots of ruck on that. But. People are always free to try.

B. The driver of every vehicle shall, consistent with the requirements of this section,

drive at an appropriate reduced speed when

approaching and crossing an intersection or railway grade crossing,

when approaching and going around a curve,

when approaching a hill crest,

when traveling upon any narrow or winding roadway,

and when special hazard exists with respect to pedestrians or other traffic or by reason of weather or roadway conditions. (RCW 46.61.400(1) and (3))

(Ord. 108200 Section 2(11.52.020), 1979.)

Posted 3 years ago #
BarbG
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alki, you make sure that if you get pulled over for going to fast, or speeding, whatever you want to call it, then you use that logic when talking to the copy. "I wasn't going to fast for the conditions therefore I wasn't speeding"

Posted 3 years ago #
alki_2008
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BarbG - I guess my point didn't get through. When I first said 'fast' (which you then defined for me)...then I meant that cops should be targeting people that are driving "fast" and not just people that are slightly over the limit (ie, "speeding"). However, it seems that cops in 'speed traps' are spending their time ticketing anyone even slightly over the limit and giving them "speeding tickets"...while the emphasis should be on people that are dangerous/aggressive, no matter if they're over or under the speed limit.

Nowhere did I say that people should argue their tickets and try to get out of a 'speeding' ticket. If a cop tries to write me a ticket for driving 'fast', then I will certainly argue it with him/her though (note, that statement included sarcasm)...thanks for, again, telling me what I should do.

Posted 3 years ago #
datamuse
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I dunno, StringCheese. I've lived at the top of that hill for over 10 years. For the past three and a half I've driven it every workday. It's just not that hard to keep your speed down to 30. When I drove a pickup truck I just put it low gear; lots of automatics have this feature. My current car has a CVT, but it's also got an engine-braking setting, so I just put that on and tap the brakes every so often.

That way, I can reserve my attention for the tailgaters who like to follow me down the hill, just as though there weren't a perfectly clear passing lane to their left.

Posted 3 years ago #
JanS
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actually, regarding the Admiral Hill from about 37th SW down to the entrance to the bridge....the speed limit on that hill up until just a few years ago WAS 35MPH. And one day, those signs were gone, and it was 30...no idea who decided...but the signs went up in the middle of the night. And for those used to 35Mph, it took some getting used to.

Posted 3 years ago #
JoB
Member Profile

alki_2008

i too have had to work hard to control my vehicle after a pedestrian darted into the street in front of me and i had to brake too quickly...

but every time, my first thought upon finding out we were all ok has been... thank god i didn't hit them.

When you slow down you increase your chances to be thankful when the unexpected happens...

Posted 3 years ago #
cruiser
Member Profile

Random thought for the day....Speed Limit...hmmm....LIMIT....hmmm....not TARGET....as you were so

Posted 3 years ago #