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Seattle Cop Punches Woman

Started 1 year ago by Jiggers
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Jiggers
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Dd you see the video?..wow! Maybe WSB can post it up here, but there was a lot of potty mouth language going on. Seattle Times has the video up and running online. Rule number one: Never interfere with a cop who is trying to subdue someone. You're going to get jacked!

Posted 1 year ago #
maplesyrup
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I saw it. Normally I'd lean the other way but that girl deserved it.

Posted 1 year ago #
Carson
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I would tend to agree maplesyrup. I say make the officer take an unpaid coffee break as fair punishment.

Posted 1 year ago #
KBear
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I'll bet that officer knows what to do with bicyclists who run stop signs, too!

Posted 1 year ago #
WSB
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There's no WS angle in it whatsoever so far as I can determine so it's not a main-page story here but the link Jig mentions is here (with video embedded courtesy of our pals at K5)
http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/localnews/2012122660_coppunch16m.html

Posted 1 year ago #
flowerpetal
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I thought the "Open Discussion" forum was for West Seattle related topics as it is described. I expected this thread to be pulled.

Posted 1 year ago #
Jiggers
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flowerpetal...nah I'll keep my lip shut.

Posted 1 year ago #
squareeyes
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I had the sound off, but the video was pretty intense. Looked like the cop was justified in his reaction. What the #*%&, though?!? If a cop called me over for jaywalking, I'd accept my ticket like an adult and have my tantrum later in private.

Posted 1 year ago #
SomeGuy
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Flowerpetal, we have lippy teenage jaywalkers in WS, so (BAM!) it's relevant.

Fully support the officer in this situation; he showed quite a bit of restraint in my opinion.

Posted 1 year ago #
anonyme
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Provocation is not the same thing as justification. Restraint of the suspect, yes; a punch in the face, no. The officer did show a fair amount of restraint, but only after he was surrounded by an angry crowd with cameras rolling. This officer did not show good judgment, especially with no partner visible. He should have called for backup and had the women arrested for assaulting an officer. As it stands, he has only inflamed more anti-police sentiment in an already volatile atmosphere.

Posted 1 year ago #
dhg
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anonyme: I think you nailed it. I think the officer was justified in using force but he could've handled this better. This reminds me of the two teenaged girls who got bent out of shape because a guy had a hose out watering the traffic circle and wanted the girls to go around the left side rather than over the hose. The girls called in their backup and the garden guy ended up dead.

Posted 1 year ago #
ToddinWestwood
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Anyone remember the four officers in Lakewood? or the officer in Highland Park who was beaten so severly he's on disability now?
After watching it at least 10 times today, shes lucky she didnt get tazed or beat down.
Have some respect for the police you little brats.
2 seconds ago ·

Posted 1 year ago #
christopherboffoli
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Pretty simple to me. Don't assault a police officer and he won't punch you in the face.

Posted 1 year ago #
JanS
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I keep thinking...if he had waited for backup, those two girls would have been long gone. When is it ever acceptible for someone stopped by police to react like that? If you had been the policeman in that video, what would you have done? Really, what would you have done? Just let them all go? He was surrounded. I'm just playing devil's advocate here. What if it had been an asian -american cop and a white girl? why is it that color is the first thing brought up? Let's pretend they were all green? Does anyone bother to stop and make a video of it? What if he thought she was going for his gun? What does he do then, stop her by any means? I'm just bringing up"what if's". I'm not saying I agree with the police in the video. I think that perhaps the closed fist was a bit over the top...however..I understand that he had to do something to diffuse the situation.

And, yes, the girl had j-walked...it's a crime, albeit a small one. Perhaps if she had treated the whole thing with a little more respect ( and her friend had simply minded her own business and butted out), things would have turned out very differently. I'm with Todd andChristopher - it's never OK to assault a cop when he's trying to cite you.

Posted 1 year ago #
EmmyJane
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So ironic that people can beat up on the police all they want and it may or may not make the news, but an officer defends himself after being attacked and its front page news. I'm very disappointed in the organizations I feel are getting involved and suggesting its a racial issue.

The girls also both had backgrounds, including assult. Neither got jail time because they were first time offenders. I love our system. You can steal a car and not get in trouble for it because it was the first time you did it. Wow.

Posted 1 year ago #
ejones
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I watched the entire video and don't see anything wrong with what the officer did. Considering how much the girl was struggling I'm surprised he used so much restraint.

Yes he probably should have waited for back up and not have put himself in that situation, but he didn't. Can you honestly watch the video and say the officer was wrong in his assessment that the woman he hit wasn't "attempting to physically effect the first subject's escape." If someone grabbed my arm like that I would be tempted to punch them as well. With 5 jaywalkers I doubt they would have even been ticketed if they had just been polite and apologetic.

Flowerpetal, incidents like this affect the Seattle Police, which affects all neighborhoods and the policy's that are enforced in them, including West Seattle.

Posted 1 year ago #
WSB
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To fpetal's point. We prefer that this section stick to WS topics. However, some that are of huge citywide interest have erupted just the same, including major national stories, celebrity deaths, etc., and we would be foolish to say no! you can't talk about that here. Things evolve. I'm glad that MOST of the time, it's WS-related.

Different from some other categories provided as a service to West Seattle businesses etc., like Jobs Offered and Freebies/Deals/Sales - if those were overrun with non-WS things, that would be a problem.

Posted 1 year ago #
Jiggers
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That's why I started a thread on it because it was already drawing much attention,not locally, but nationally already. As any of you who watches the news would have seen the story. I didn't post the actual video here because it wasn't edited very well with all the language going on. I left it to WSB to post it or delete all together. My take is that the officer had every right to protect himself from another party trying to interfere and physically get involved with him. His backup was at least three minutes away as you watch the video you could hear the sirens in the background when the video stopped. Three minutes plus is a very long time for an officer to be in this position. It could have scaled into an uglier outcome as well. If the girl didn't have an attitude, this wouldn't have happened and she may have just got a verbal warning. He confronted her for jaywalking. She's lucky he didn't taze her behind. Maybe he should have. Now they are going to use the race card as you may already know. I'm wondering if Al Sharpton was called.

Posted 1 year ago #
Trick
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Now the bigger question is, if that's a gun at 1:15 left on tape. It really does look like one at arms length of the cop.

Posted 1 year ago #
Jiggers
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I heard the comments made by James Kelly who represents the African/American community and the Urban League. What a moron! Is there a smart African/American leader out there who can make an intelligent comment on this. I bet he ddn't even watch the video.

If you watch the video closely, the girl in the pink was being pulled back by a African/American male. Personally, I think it's more of a gender issue. That male trying to pull her back before she shoved the officer, at least he had some brains. It is a gender issue if you ask me.

Posted 1 year ago #
JoB
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this is neither a gender or race issue... it's a civility issue... and one we had better solve soon.

the problem is more obvious in those who have already had encounters with the law.. but it exists in subtle and not so subtle ways throughout our society.

We have had more than one discussion here on WSB about the rationalizations for breaking the law...

it's only one step from entitlement to abusive behavior to the kind of mob mentality displayed on that video.

Posted 1 year ago #
beachdrivegirl
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Until this morning I had not watched the video myself. I had read the headlines and my first reaction was to be embarrassed by our law enforcement. How dare they punch someone in the face, was my initial thought.

However after reading everyone’s comments here I decided to follow TR's link to read up & watch the video.

After watching the video, I think the cop had every right to punch her in the face. Who the hell did those girls think they were? I hope they throw the book at those girls and I wish they could do the same to their parents. They had to have learned that disrespect somewhere.

On another note, it made me understand another posters post about police on Alki being timid. If this is what our law enforcement is faced with on a daily bases no wonder the first responding officer was waiting for his officer. He probably doesn’t want to end up on disability because of being attacked by these young adults who seem to have no respect for our law enforcement.

Posted 1 year ago #
bebecat
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This female involved in this altercation obviously has a distorted view of her own self-importance. She also appears to have missed out on learning appropriate bounderies.

Posted 1 year ago #
greatfree1
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To the people wondering about why a cop would even bother with stopping a jaywalker; the reason is that the local High School asked the police to patrol that particular area as they have noticed an increase in jaywalking and were worried about a student getting hit. So the police were responding to a request by the community and this is how they are treated?

Posted 1 year ago #
TDe
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I think the officer is darned lucky that the crowd around him was more civil than the girls involved, or he could have been in real trouble. He's pretty vulnerable in that video.

So how is it that a simple jaywalking ticket escalates into violence? Maybe SPD should assign jaywalking patrols a camera, to take photos of those who walk away from them and then assign someone to track down the "perps" later... shouldn't be that hard given they are school students. They could show up at the parents house or even at their classrooms to issue a ticket.

I know it's justice delayed, but jaywalking isn't exactly murder 1 and it might stop the escalation into violence. If parents aren't teaching youngsters respect for the law and law enforcement is determined to make youngsters accept tickets on the spot or be arrested, then it seems to me like these sorts of incidents will continue to occur. There must be some other way to deal with jaywalking.

Posted 1 year ago #
yeah-me
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Amazing! I just watched the full video (up until now had only seen the punch shot on the news). I think if the gal getting arrested had been a young man (any race!) he would have been slammed on the car and handcuffed in no time. I think the officer showed a lot of restraint in how he handled her.

The boys in the background were pretty darn well behaved. Good for them!

The girl who got punched -- I definitely think she deserved it. I just don't understand how she did not get arrested for assaulting a police officer. She is lucky he didn't have back up -- she would have gotten hauled in too.

Posted 1 year ago #
KBear
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Wouldn't it be nice if organizations like the NAACP and the Urban League could acknowledge the distinction between incidents like this and the recent "Mexican P*ss" beating? It isn't always racism. In order to bring the proper focus on the cops who do step out of line, you can't go around screaming "RACISM" every time a cop is just doing his job and a person of color (who is breaking the law on camera!) gets hurt.

Posted 1 year ago #
beachdrivegirl
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Ditto to KBear

Posted 1 year ago #
WSB
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Just one thing to note, because I doubt it will come up anywhere else. This couldn't help but remind me of a story we covered closely for a year and a half - what happened to Officer Jason McKissack, who suffered a career-ending injury after trying to break up a fight in West Seattle involving juveniles, almost exactly two years ago. This was our second report, summarizing the police report about the circumstances.
http://westseattleblog.com/2008/06/officer-attacked-in-high-point-more-details-from-police-report

Again, maybe not relevant. Investigations are under way in this new videotaped case and ultimately police and city leadership will decide what if anything should be done.

But it was one incident that shone some light into what police officers deal with, and what they have to consider when making decisions about how to handle situations.

Posted 1 year ago #
ejones
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@yeah-me she was arrested and charged with assult.

Posted 1 year ago #
JanS
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so, whatever happened to those "kids" who beat the crap out of Officer McKissack? Two guilty of "obstruction", one of third degree assault, credit for time served (which wasn't much). And the officer lost his livlihood, and much , much more.

Perspective...if I was the cop in that video, I probably would have reacted the same way.

Posted 1 year ago #
hoffanimal
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I agree that it was a tough situation for the officer and that he could have done something besides punch the second girl. However, that is very easy to say from the safety of my desk. When you are grabbed from behind like that in an already tense situation I am sure the last thing you are thinking about is doing what's socially acceptable (not hitting a girl). What really gets me though is where the 17 and 19 year old kids get idea that it is okay to ignore, resist, and fight with police officer.

Posted 1 year ago #
Jiggers
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They both should have got tazed if they were interfering and resisting if you ask me. That would have teached them.

Posted 1 year ago #
stina
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I’m going to get flamed for saying this, but someone needs to point out the issues with this situation. You have a group of young black women being stopped by a white male police officer. The image of a white male cop is scary to many individuals in this city, myself included. I can imagine that the “mouthing off” of these young girls comes not from disrespect, but from fear. Imagine living in a reality where white male police officers are a threat to you, even if you’ve done nothing wrong. Like in this story: http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/localnews/2008739577_deputy13m.html

And this story:
http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/localnews/2011869988_diaz15m.html?prmid=obinsite

Both these situations are relatively recent. These situations are the reason that many people, both minority and majority, have absolute distrust in the police in this city.

I’d be terrified in this situation if a white, male police officer stopped me for anything. I can imagine that these girls reacted out fear, and I’m willing to give them the benefit of a doubt. I’ve seen the way that police treat minority women in this city, and I would not want to be on the receiving end of the approved policies of the Seattle Police Department

I’m also positive that racism played a role in this situation. If they had been white girls, would they have even been stopped? Would the online reaction be the same if a black police officer punched a white girl in the face?

Finally, since when does jaywalking result in arrest? How does that happen? And, why is absolute obedience to police officers expected? What have they done in this city recently to earn that respect?

Posted 1 year ago #
KBear
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So, stina, when a white male cop sees black female youths breaking the law, he's supposed to just let it pass because doing anything else would be racist?

Posted 1 year ago #
HolyKow
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Here are the main point:

Were the 'females' wrong? yes

Did one of the strike the officer? yes

Was the cop wrong in reacting? no

Was the cop bad at his job? yes

A police officer should never be touched in that aggressive manner or really, ever. However, when a police office takes action, it should be swift and decisive. He pu55y-footed around with here trying to get the cuffs on for WAY to long. If you decide to take action, it needs to be done with decisive motion and quick resolution. If this guy can't handle a couple of mid-teen girls, what happens with a couple of 25 year-old males that can get down....

The cop was correct, just bad at this phase of his job.

The girls had it coming after that mouthing off and pushing a cop, you never do that, black, white, purple, brown, purple, gray

And all of this over what may have been under $50 citation or even just a warning...and it all could have been avoided if they would have just not been lazy and used the overpass for pedestrians and not tried to run across 5 lanes of traffic....

hk

Posted 1 year ago #
HolyKow
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Wow, stina, that is spectacular misunderstanding of what is going on here...

1) If you mouth off to a cop or push them, get ready for a beat down, no matter the race. If a white girl had mouthed off and pushed a black cop, same thing. Good for the cop.

2) This was not going to be an arrest. This was going to be maybe a warning, possibly a citation, but the 'females' went off with significant amounts of attitude and escalated this to a point of physical confrontation.

This was not about race. This was also not about gender. This was about 2 stupid girls escalating an issue to an unreasonable place and getting put in their place because they were stupid. Not because they were black or female.

And she is not some choir girl either, previous arrest for...GUESS WHAT!...assaulting a police officer...

hk

Posted 1 year ago #
HolyKow
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KBear, right on. I think that most of us would agree that the 'Mexi-P' issue was out of line and that cop should be disciplined and that could and should include being fired. That was racist and wrong on all accounts.

This was not even close to that situation.

hk

Posted 1 year ago #
Andy
Member Profile

Stina - I don't know that you'll get flamed in any great way, as this is a pretty solidly mature community here, but there is certainly much to take issue with in what you said.

"Finally, since when does jaywalking result in arrest?"

Since it became against the law. That's it. There is absolutely no way to spin it so that you should not expect a citation for breaking a law. If you are stopped by a police officer for breaking a law, you accept the consequences. Cool law, dumb law, right law, frivolous law, it doesn't matter. Fight it in court if you want. Work to have it voted off the books. It's called maturity. Personal responsibility. Civic duty.

If those girls just stopped and accepted the ticket, none of this would have happened. They could even grumble and cuss out the cop if they wanted to - he still would have just written the ticket and sent them on their way. Peacefully.

Everything you mentioned about minorities being afraid of white cops goes the same for white cops being afraid of minorities. We could all stand a little empathy when it comes to that. White police officers know that minorities are suspicious and fearful of them, which makes white cops suspicious and fearful of minorities. It is a self-perpetuating and unfortunate situation that only gets exacerbated when people physically assault a cop every time he stops them for jaywalking.

We need to help each other out here a little bit.

Posted 1 year ago #
Jiggers
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stina.. Watch the video closely first ok with the volume on(hint)...Once the girl in the pink physically shoves him, and obstructs him from doing his job, guess what happens next. Is he supposed to laugh and let them go? I wonder how many times she dropped the f bomb and other obscene language in that three minute clip? Mommy and daddy are proud them. It's NOT about bieng black or white, so let's stop playing that card.

Oh yeah.. I read that that same role model girl also jacked boys too in actual police reports made.

Posted 1 year ago #
greatfree1
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This could have been alot worse; at about the 1:30 mark of the video it looks to me as if an older black male walks behind the officer with a gun in his right hand. Video is kinda grainy so I could be wrong but my coworkers agree that it sure looks like a gun.

Posted 1 year ago #
mrhineh
Member Profile

CNN did a nice poster-girl job this morning, starting with the punch, then the mom's "my baby is a good child" speech, and then after the fact, mentioning that, btw, the girl had been arrested for kicking an officer previously.
Lets also not forget that 6 police officers have been murdered in less than a year, and that doesn't inlucde Steve Cox in White Center a few years back.
Fearful of the police? So you mouth off as a defense mechanism out of fear? Really? I know when I enter a situation that I might feel less than secure in, the first thing I do is go pick a fight with the gnarliest dude. Yeah, right. Looks like someone went out of their way to pick a fight. And lost.

Posted 1 year ago #
stina
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To clarify, I'm not saying that the girls should have gotten away with jaywalking. What I'm saying is that people are ignoring the real issues minorities have with police. We've all jaywalked at some point in our lives (or been speeding, or cruised through a stop sign or something). We all break laws, some of us daily. But most of us don't get arrested for doing these things.

The SPD has a history of racial profiling and police brutality to non-white individuals. These girls are most likely very aware of that history and reacted poorly, probably out of fear. Fight or flight has been studied extensively and it could apply here.

Posted 1 year ago #
greatfree1
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If you "fight or flight" with/from the police then you can expect to get roughed up. If these girls think the cop was racial profiling them, isn't that racial profiling of the cop by the girls.

Posted 1 year ago #
moxilot
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Stina, you have absolutely no basis for your call of racism based on the video. The officer was responded to the high school's request to patrol SPECIFICALLY for jaywalking, so there goes your "he was just stopping them on a frivolous charge because they were black" theory.

Also, we weren't talking about "the issues minorities have with the police" because (I feel) that is not the focal point here, though many people, including yourself, are trying to make it so. Yes, I've jaywalked, and been ticketed speeding, etc and if I'd been stopped for any of those infractions I would have taken my ticket. I'd probably be really ticked off, but I deserved it after all. I mean, I broke the law and ended up getting caught. And the girls weren't going to 'get arrested' for jaywalking. They were going to be CITED. Their reactions resulted in the arrests.

When I first saw the video on the news they kept running the images of the punch and were talking over the audio. My reaction was "What the heck is he doing punching someone in the face?!" After seeing the circumstances around it and hearing what happened, I fully support the officer's actions. I constantly question motivations of those in positions of authority, but I agree with JoB that this is about civility. With all of the videos people take of police officers abusing their power, I'm glad these cell-phone directors were there to catch the people abusing the officers, even if that probably wasn't their intent.

Finally, the NAACP and the Urban League would have gained a boatload of respect from me if they kept out of this, or if they would've stepped up and said "This isn't a case of racism. This is a case of a police officer performing his duties and two young adults who escalated the issue to warrant that use of force."

Posted 1 year ago #
Jiggers
Member Profile

I'm going to implicate myself here and say that I jaywalk almost everyday because even though you are in a crosswalk, that isn't a guarantee that you'll make it from one side to the other. I'm actually more aware of cars when I do jaywalk. You tend to let your guard down slightly when you use a crosswalk. But that doesn't still make it right or legal. Oh.. I'm also a slightly brown colored skin and a minority here, guess what, I'm siding with the white cop.

Posted 1 year ago #
lenguamor
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I fully support the cop in this instance. You put hands on a Police Officer and THE LEAST you should get is a punch in the face - white, black, man or woman.

Jason McKissack has to be sitting at home wondering what has to happen for the community to show some solidarity behind our men and women in blue in situations like this one.

Posted 1 year ago #
JanS
Member Profile

moxilot - thanks for your last post. Yes, I have gotten stopped for speeding. And I said thank you to the grumpy officer who gave me a ticket...and I slowed down.

Stina...I don't fear the police...I respect them - well, most of them. I understand that I'm a 63 yo white woman who has never been racially profiled. But...what would you have had this cop do? Do you really think that he thought" Oh, they jaywalked, but they're black, so I'll let it go, because they're afraid of me, and I just have to have a little more understanding."? That's crap. That's an excuse for not taking responsibility for your actions. Let people use an excuse like that one or two times, and they will feel that they never have to take responsibility for the mistakes they make in their lives. And these two girls definitely made a mistake. It IS about civility, nothing more. Being stopped for a minor thing like jay-walking does not give anyone the right to turn the circumstances into more. What the hell did these two girls have to be afraid of right then, besides being hit by one or more cars...because they were IN THE WRONG!

We are too guilty of making more of things than really exist.

Posted 1 year ago #
JoB
Member Profile

if you've broken the law..
and you don't want a ticket
and you don't want to get hauled of to jail..
you don't attack the officer..

kicking, biting, scratching and hitting an officer of the law is not acceptable behavior even if you are a minority.

a polite answer and a smile have almost always guaranteed women of any color a warning for mild infractions like jaywalking.

stupid does not have a color or gender.

Posted 1 year ago #
westcoastdeb
Member Profile

As the family member of a police officer (albiet not in this state!) I have got to say that too many things in lawbreaking land are blamed on color. My brother in law is a police officer in a smaller town in Virginia. In his first year as an officer he was accused of profiling for arresting a habitual drunken driver for...DUI! The second time this habitual drunken driver was pulled over by Officer Brother in law there was a full scale investigation -- not as to why a drunken driver was STILL on the road after several DUI's but why a white cop had pulled him over twice.

In the end, Officer Brother in Law is not allowed to pull mr DUI over anymore.

Some people know how to use 'racial profiling' cries to their advantage. I fully expect this to be one of the cases. It disgusts me. Thank you to each and every law officer out there trying to protect us. I'm sorry, I deeply appologize,that there are people of my generation, of my gender, who have no respect for authority or the jobs that they do.

Hey, can we make this about age ;)

Deb

Posted 1 year ago #