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Saving the American Dream!!

Started 10 months ago by MBarrettMiller
Latest reply from redblack

MBarrettMiller
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American Dream House Meeting.
Last night I attended a small community meeting, held in a private home, organized by MoveOn.org.
A couple of weeks ago I received a lengthy email listing dozens of homes in Seattle that were going to host a two hour gathering to discuss how we could create a greater voice, nationally, on many of the issues swirling around us.
I picked a location totally driven by where the home was and where I could walk Sage on the way to the meeting - (the walk along the water in the Arboretum was particularly beautiful even though winter still holds us tightly).
The home I visited was built in the 1910’s. It had been totally re-done into a very comfortable, warm and welcoming place for a community meeting.
Within five minutes of the scheduled arrival time the host began the short introduction of the purpose and how this group of twenty would approach a selection of issues. (It turned out the host is the brother of a sitting U.S. Congressman, a very Progressive/Liberal, who has served Seattle’s 7th District for years).
No one, other than the host and his wife knew each other. This group of twenty ranged from retired people to University students, all drawn together to see what could be done to get the country on an even keel. The group, after name only introductions, was broken into four smaller groups to prioritize ten suggested responses to each of the following questions.
#1 How can we stop corporations and the rich from dodging taxes?
#2 How can we create good jobs and invest in a sustainable future for America and our kids?
#3 How do we ensure good healthcare, quality education, and a retirement with dignity for all?
#4 How do we make sure the people call the shots – and no one gets left out?
The breakout groups chewed over the options for thirty-five minutes agreeing to the top three responses, from the list of ten, to each of the above question. Here are the top responses:
#1 I’m willing to give up the small tax break I got under the Bush tax cuts in order for the wealthiest people of our nation to pay their fair share. End the Bush tax cut for the middle class as well and return ALL tax brackets to their Clinton-era rates. Use the trillions of dollars in extra revenue to pay for progressive priorities.
#2 Invest in American businesses that create, make and install green sources of energy like wind turbines and energy efficient light bulbs; install solar power in homes and buildings throughout the sunbelt; replace fossil fuels with geothermal heat; and manufacture high-powered batteries and electric cars, retrofit offices and homes.
#3 A high-quality education system, from universal preschool to affordable higher education, is critical to our nation‘s long term economic success. Investing in education has obvious benefits for individuals, society, and the economy, and it can also create badly needed jobs. We must provide people universal access to early childhood education; equitable school funding; increased investments in high-quality teachers; and safe, functioning buildings for students to learn in.
#4 We need a Supreme Court with the common sense to understand that corporations aren’t people and speech isn’t money. We must roll back the Citizen United decision, which gives corporations the same rights as people – by a constitutional amendment if necessary.
After a few more minutes of conversation the meeting was adjourned.
The host will forward the results to his contact at the national MoveOn.org location coordinating the evening. Results will be distributed after surviving the numbers crunching machine.
A number of times during the evening I thought of how much many of you would have enjoyed the evening. Good people, good conversation, good sense…
What’s next? The August Congressional Recess is coming! Stay tuned.
Check it out at http://moveon.org/team/campaigns/dreammeeting/august.html

Posted 10 months ago #
JoB
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and now the real work of move-on begins?

we will see.
I am cautiously optimistic

Posted 10 months ago #
marianne
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BUMP

Posted 10 months ago #
Jiggers
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The Republicans are ruining my American dream..oh wait.. That's unfair, both parties are killing me now.

Posted 10 months ago #
JanS
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while you are cautiously optimistic, I am constantly amazed at the ineptitude, the obtuse-ness, of our congress. I think they all deserve to be voted out, and have to go get a blue collar job.

Posted 10 months ago #
metrognome
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I am cautiously optomistic about this effort, altho I doubt I will participate as most private homes are not accessible to persons in wheelchairs (I wonder how amenable MoveOn is to providing accommodations to folks with other disabilities.)

I am constantly amazed at the ineptness, the obtuseness, the complete uninformedness and the flat-out selfishness of many citizens. I think they all deserve to be forced to attend at least one meeting of an elected body (i.e. city or county council) once a week, watch 4 hours of C-Span a week and spend one day a month answering the completely conflicting (and often downright nasty) citizen complaints that the legislator of their choice receives.

This used to be a participatory democracy; except for small portions of New England, its a sound-bite driven, 'all I am interested in is what benefits me so don't bother me with facts or the long view and give me everthing I demand without ever raising taxes' NIMBY complaint fest. I am heartened by the #1 recommendation from the MoveOn meetings which indicated people are willing to give something up to benefit the country.

Posted 10 months ago #
Bostonman
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Just so I understand, you want to raise my taxes to pay for progressive priorities? Now, I am not opposed to paying more in taxes (slightly) but why should my increase go to furthering only progressive priorities? These are the reasons people don't want taxes raised. Now if you want to raise my taxes and spend the money on a mix of conservative priorities and progressive priorities then I am ok with that.

Just as a quick example, I am pro choice but also want the 2nd amendment to keep me with the right to bear arms. I don't just mean the arms the government tells me I can bear either.

Now, I will vote against a tax increase if I feel like I am not getting a little something out of it. Thats part of the reason the income tax failed, there is too much waste in the system. So you want to raise taxes then how will I benefit? Considering I paid about $20k in taxes last year what will change by me paying $25k? I would say I pay a very fair amount into the system given my salary and I suspect that people who would ask me to pay another $5k probably don't pay 10% of what I pay into it and get far greater benefit.

Posted 10 months ago #
JoB
Member Profile

Bostonman...

can you explain to me why any citizen "needs" an automatic weapon that can fire multiple rounds in virtually seconds?

how does it make us safer when criminals and crazies have guns that can kill as many people as possible as quickly as possible... and ammo that pierces any protective garment we could wear?

I am all for the right of citizens to own guns...
but really... weapons of war? we need those?

who or what exactly are "we" protecting ourselves from?

PS.. these days.. progressive priorities are any tax use that will actually benefit ordinary citizens:(

Posted 10 months ago #
kootchman
Member Profile

I can. They are fun to shoot? Tell ya what... you take away 3285 per second NATO 5.56 caliber weapons, with a cyclic rate of fire of 1200 rounds per minute, away from the SPD.... I might contemplate it. The "new" Supreme court just ruled that the mere "smell" of marijuana justifies a no knock, no warrant, forcible entry into any private residence. Or.. this one, a pissed off, off duty cop, in his private vehicle, without police lights, his hot date beside him, goes macho and chases a Seattle resident from Capitol Hill to West Seattle... cuts him off on a residential street, comes roaring out of his car, personal automatic weapon drawn..at at gun point, forces the driver and passenger to lay prone in the road. ..... after calling for back up on his cell phone,the responding brother officers come up and over the hill at a high rate of speed. The driver, now prone in the middle of the road... rolls out of the way...and of course gets charged with resisting arrest...( dismissed charges) the SPD catch all ... I might add, as a side note, the courts paid $1...that is right ONE dollar to the passenger.. because RamboCop held the passenger at gunpoint too long. It gets even better..We paid for the cops attorney..about $300,000....because the court found in favor of the terrified citizen...his attorney has to be paid by the "guilty" party in this case.. SPD/City of Seattle..another $400,000... sooo we are on the hook for $701,000 dollars So my fellow posters.. if a pissed off, crazy ass driver, tried to run you off the road, cuts you off, and charges your car at gunpoint at 2 AM, ... that is a good time to reach beside you, pull out your much bigger caliber Desert Eagle, with a load of .357 Magnum wad cutters and shoot as if your life depended on it. It just might. That Bostonman would be my explaination. Thank the WA State Constitution you have the right to "carry and conceal"...

Posted 10 months ago #
kootchman
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Me. I am thinking that MoveOn, would like to address these atrocious erosion of civil rights...that would appeal to me.

Posted 10 months ago #
dobro
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shorter kootchman...we need assault weapons so we can pull them out and shoot cops. Yeah, that makes a lot of sense...NOT!

Posted 10 months ago #
kootchman
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they are pulling them out on you.... or haven't you noticed? Our peace officers are riding around with assault weapons...with an effective kill zone of 400 yards.... 1000 if in the hands of a marine.

Posted 10 months ago #
kootchman
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BTY.... I have been trolling for ya.... serious... relating to the dobro...no politics involved. I have a problemo of my own creation, and the solution is assistance from someone...the benefit is at the end of a soiree'... I expect to have as much as 50lbs of excess pulled pork... the soiree' is at the home of some one of Seattle's great divas of the accordian...and in attendance my friend will be some of the finest bluegrass, country, swing, roadhouse..musicians in the area. Mayhaps you know the event? In any case..my procrastination in ordering the pig late meant the smallest hog I could get is #150 ... being the cripple I am ... I need some heave ho help... you know there is going to be some kick ass jammin going down... as spectator or participant.... you would be part of the catering crew. Interested?

Posted 10 months ago #
kootchman
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a tad off topic...sorry all

Posted 10 months ago #
redblack
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bostonman: if you paid $20,000 in federal income taxes last year, then we're not talking about you or raising your taxes.

we're talking about the job and wealth exporters.

Posted 10 months ago #
JoB
Member Profile

kootch...

your tirade on rouge cops doesn't little more than to illustrate why we should be getting those weapons out of circulation.

the cops wouldn't need them if they weren't standard issue for the gang war.. or for the rouge citizen barricaded in his/her house taking potshots at the neighborhood.

i grant you they are fun to shoot...
but not to put in the hands of idiots who think more of their own fun than of public safety.

Posted 10 months ago #
JoB
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kootch..

if dobro doesn't bite...
i know where you can get musical muscle

Posted 10 months ago #
metrognome
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"rouge cop" ... would that be the make-up police? Can you still get arrested for wearing blue eye shadow?

seriously, is the inability of a private citizen (who's not a member of a 'well-regulated militia') to buy whatever armament s/he desires really germaine to the discussion MBarrettMiller was trying to start? Can we get back on topic?

For example, the bipartisan Gang of Six has proposed major changes to the tax code, including deleting heretofore sacrosanct tax breaks, such as mortgage deductions (isn't buying a house a major chunk of the AD?), charitable giving and retirement savings. They also propose reducing tax brackets from 6 to 3, which would give non-tax-evading wealthy taxpayers a huge break.

What, if anything, are you willing to give up? Bostonman, I don't know who you work for, but if you're paying $20k in taxes, I would guess your employer can afford to pay you that generous a salary in part because they benefit from the tax code as well as from taxpayer-funded improvements to the infrastructure (schools, roads, utilities, etc.)

Posted 10 months ago #
2 Much Whine
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Don't go! It's a trap! Kootch is obviously well acquainted with weapons. I think instead of soiree he meant sortie! But then again 50 pounds of BBQ pig might be worth risking sure and sudden death. . . .

Posted 10 months ago #
DP
Member Profile

MBM and BM:

Thank you for your thoughtful, well-reasoned comments.

BM, I don't agree with everything you say, but I do appreciate your attempts to engage.

mgm, thanks for providing us with the occasional glimpse of your world as a wheelchair user. I'd love to see an in-depth piece from you on the issue of WS accessibility someday.

Good karma to all!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eadweard_Muybridge

Posted 10 months ago #
kootchman
Member Profile

Well you call it a rant. But the question was posed. We have a serious and growing problem of an up armored "peace" officer corps who trample basic civil rights. We all have our "talking points" as to a better society..and ONE of mine is police brutality, excessive force, unreasonable search and seizure.. et al. Not all by any means, but too many and growing. Hmmm for your newbie leftists... from the old guard..now evolved to a higher more rational order... A little Neil Young and "Ohio" for a refresher course. How can you even begin to contemplate social justice in a city where blind, handicapped, native Americans are gunned down in a crosswalks? Bet he could have cared less about taxes, financial inequality etc... as 7 rounds of (mm parabellums tore into his lungs, liver, spleen and spine...that's not a MoveOn sorta issue? If it isn't ... what toothless weenies!

Posted 10 months ago #
AlkiKmac
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Current mortgage deduction rule: interest can be deducted on mortgages of under $1,000,000.

Gang of Six mortgage deduction change: allow interest deductions on mortgages under $500,000.

....wish I could afford a $500,000 mortgage...

I think most of us will be ok with this change.

Posted 10 months ago #
kootchman
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Since the mean price of a Seattle home is is about 350K I will bet 40% of all home owners in Seattle pay 500K and then some....those are your Magnolia liberals who love to wine and cheese the candidates.... and fuel the machine... oh hell no! That $700,00 we paid out was a lot of money...well at least in my home it is....how many millions has Seattle/King County paid out in the last five years for police misconduct... ya think we could have put that money to better use?

Posted 10 months ago #
kootchman
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JoB .... where?

Posted 10 months ago #
JoB
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you could start with my house (my stronger half) depending upon the date..
but i also know someone else who i think would be interested.
you know how to reach me.,

Posted 10 months ago #
Bostonman
Member Profile

I could have responded sooner but I was really swamped today at work.

Redblack: While I can appreciate taxing the wealth exporters and people who ship jobs overseas I am just a little apprehensive that I am not going to get hit with some of that burden. I don't have a lot of faith in the government honestly so if I am not paying more and its limited to what you say then ok.

As far as weapons go there is nothing you will be able to do, no laws that can be created that will keep firearms out of the hands of criminals and crazies. I have been shooting since I was 6, I have enough guns I could sell them and pay for my house. I have never pulled a gun on a person, had an accident nor any other incident with them. I actually had this conversation with a very liberal neighbor a year ago. He was at my house when I just got home from the range and had a 9mm in my hands unloaded and he proceeded to say how guns were dangerous. I said lets have a test, I loaded the gun and put it on the table and said lets see how long it takes before the gun hurts us. The answer is obviously never, guns are just pieces of metal. Its people who are dangerous, if guns weren't around for them to commit crime they would do it with a knife. Remember, the 9/11 planes were hijacked with boxcutters.

I am getting off track a little bit. The point is the right to bears arms as a part of the consitution doesn't have an asterisk next to it that says (only approved firearms). You ask what I would want a gun like that for? Well as a lawbiding citizen it would be to have fun with. Legal gun owners are not crazy people, they are responsible people. You are taught that even if you are carrying a weapon you should avoid conflict and it should always be a last resort to protect your life.

Posted 10 months ago #
kootchman
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I would say at the time of the constitution, the intent was that the right to bear arms would have intended that there was an equivalency of power... the ole British "Brown Bess" was the firepower of the British army....(although the Kentucky long rifle was a helluva an improvement rifled bore an all that) .... it would make perfect sense to me that citizens should be able to keep pace with weaponry...the constitution never mentioned we should have to stay with 17th century technology. If they got em' we should have em' too. Bostonman...really, next time I go to Knob Creek in West Point KT... y'all come along. There is just something about an electric motor driven chain gun ... I suggest it as a family vacation. Sure beats 6 Flags ... ! http://www.knobcreekrange.com/

and my favorite

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Aazum9YhuU0&feature=player_embedded#at=24

Posted 10 months ago #
FullTilt
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Every time I hear the phrase "American Dream" I thin of this.
http://youtu.be/s4nSxArk9g8

Posted 10 months ago #
MBarrettMiller
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wow-little did I know I was lighting the fuse of a virtual town meeting ala the forum.
I think it's got to get down to us deciding what kind of a country we want to live in and how we are going to finance it.
I've lived in a number of countries that seem to do a better job of defining who they are and how they are going to use the assets to support society.....

Posted 10 months ago #
redblack
Member Profile

I don't have a lot of faith in the government honestly so if I am not paying more and its limited to what you say then ok.

i don't have a lot of faith in the lobbyists, lawyers, and politicians.

the government, however, is ours to change as we see fit.

i just want to level the playing field, because those without money don't have easy access to government, and those with money don't want to pay for it.

interesting that you used the word "faith," because that's what it's going to take to enact meaningful change.

Legal gun owners are not crazy people, they are responsible people.

you might want to reconsider this sentiment, bostonman. there are crazy people in every demographic.

Posted 10 months ago #