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(36 posts)

Residential Parking - Unfair rule

Started 3 years ago by CaptainBroncs
Latest reply from CaptainBroncs

CaptainBroncs
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I'm relatively new to West Seattle, Washington State in particular. I came to live here roughly 7 years ago from NYC. I'm still trying to learn all the ordinance, rules and local laws but I guess you never know which ones learn about until something happens.

I was outraged when my girlfriend reported to me that my vehicle was ticket for parking over 72 hours, this happened on Fauntleroy. I could not believe this to be true, so I went to the Seattle Parking Website and behold there it was City Ordinance SMC 11.72.440. Because of this ordinance, I am now forced to move my car 2 feet forward or backward.

I own 2 vehicles but I use one primarily to work, the other does not get used often and by no means abandoned but I think its silly that I live right in front of where I park and I have to move my car. Now why is it that I have to pay once every couple of years for a parking zone permit if I have to move my cars anyway?

Is this all random pickings as well? My car had been parked for more than a month and a half in the same spot before it was ticketed. I don't get it, I think if your residence has no driveway but parking is available in front and you're paying for a parking zone permit you should just be excused. I would think the Big "ZONE PERMIT" sticker they make me pay for and put on my windshield would be a hint that "The owner of this vehicle is also a resident". So with all this huffing' and puffing, I'm going online and pay for this parking ticket I should have never received.

Thank you West Seattle for letting me vent. I guess this was my house warming gift from the friendly folks at the Parking Enforcement Office. (The least the Parking Enforcement folks could have done was give me a first warning, I'm just saying)

Posted 3 years ago #
celeste17
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Sometimes its the neighbors who will call and complain about a car being parked in one place for an extended length of time. Or sometimes the parking enforcement will come through residential neighborhoods looking for stray cars. You never know they might find a stolen car.
One time my Mom got a ticket. They ticketed her in front of the house. She talked to the parking enforcement person and said there is no way her car would be parked in the same spot for more then a few minutes as she had 4 kids and we were all involved in some activity or another. She had just come home to go potty before she was due to pick one of us up. Her car hood was still hot. I don't know the outcome of that one.
What I would suggest is to look at the tires on the car that doesn't move very often and if you see chalk marks on any of the tires (especially the street side) to roll it just a few inches so the mark is no longer visible. Welcome to Seattle and especially West Seattle. We hope to see you at a forum get together soon.

Posted 3 years ago #
cjboffoli
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I moved here from NYC too. One of the best aspects I discovered about living in Manhattan was not needing to have a car. I was able to carry that over and actually managed to live in Seattle for a year and a half without a car, commuting to work by bus and using a Flexcar. When I decided to buy a house I chose one near the Junction in West Seattle within walking distance of a commercial center so I could have choices about getting around and to not always have to rely on a car.

I'm surprised that anyone who experienced how difficult it was to park in New York City would find fault with Seattle parking rules. You could probably send a kid to college for what it costs to garage-park a car in NYC for a year. I should think you'd find the parking situation here a huge relief :-)

I'm sure you understand that we have too many cars here and way too many people driving alone in their cars. Streets are public property, not unlimited private parking for anyone who wants it. Space is limited and yet you have TWO cars and expect there to be free unlimited space on public property for both? I guess I consider it a privilege to have a car, not a right. I'm sure that if the City went to the trouble of establishing these parking rules it was for some of the reasons I've mentioned here and not just to give you a hard time.

Posted 3 years ago #
Ken
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Heads up on the orange stickers. Often it is not PEO that responds to the abandon vehicle calls but a beat cop.

The are not often happy to have to do it.

So when you get the sticker, or the first ticket on a 72 hour (which is a warning by the way rather than the tow and impound you get if you ignore it) Move the car to the other side of the street or down the block. They might feel you're just being cute if you roll it forward a few inches.

I built a fenced off street parking area for my seldom used vehicles.

Posted 3 years ago #
CaptainBroncs
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Thank you all for the great response to my post.

cjboffoli I enjoyed not needing to use a vehicle living in New York as with an all day pass I can get anywhere using the subway or bus system.

However, I have found it a bit difficult to run the same process here. In order for me to get to work I'd have to make 3 changes on bus and the times which I go to work the buses are either not running or later than I need to be able to make it.

I just thought that after leaving NYC I wouldn't have to worry about alternate street parking rules and such.

Oh well, Thank you all again for your great responses.

Posted 3 years ago #
muttleys
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We had a stolen car recovered because someone called in and complained about a car parked for more than 72 hours. I totally support this law. Who knows where our car would be now.

Posted 3 years ago #
austin
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Imagine what parking would be like if every individual insisted on owning two cars in the city (one of which sat unused for months at a time) with no driveway or garage to store them, and there were no 72 hour rule! ..The auto ranchers would sure love it anyway.

Posted 3 years ago #
flowerpetal
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I think CaptainBroncs brings up an interesting post about zone parking. I do totally support the 72 hour limit however. A car rancher uses our Westwood neighborhood to deposit old beaters which he only moves when they are orange tagged. He has several vehicles. One is parked on Barton in front of the WAMU (oops, Chase Manhattan) at Westwood Village. Another is in my residential neighborhood. On that one I have sent in a complaint this morning.

Posted 3 years ago #
Sue
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CaptainBroncs, I'm surprised that you were surprised by the 72 hour parking rule, especially since there is a similar rule in NYC, but I think an even shorter amount of time (24-36 hours or so). (I moved here from NYC 4-1/2 years ago.)

Posted 3 years ago #
WSMom
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I think the 72 hour rule is a good rule. I've observed that the rule is enforced only when neighbors call to complain about a car parked on their street, usually after several weeks of no movement not just 3 days.

Posted 3 years ago #
CaptainBroncs
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I still believe it to be unfair for those who live in the neighborhood. I need to build a driveway but I can't afford to do that just yet.

I just think if they pull up the license plate number on their portables to check for outstanding unpaid parking tickets they can look at the address and confirm that at least the owner of the vehicle lives here, and as long as the vehicle does not appear to be in a condition to be considered abandoned they should just leave it be.

Otherwise whats the sense in pay for a parking permit to show you live here. May as well stop charging for those.

I digress, just venting and I appreciate everyone commenting on this post.

Posted 3 years ago #
datamuse
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Well, for instance, if I'd had a U District permit I wouldn't have gotten a ticket there the other night. Ugh.

From what I can tell, never having had one, what parking permits mostly do is enable you to park for longer in those 1-hour and 2-hour zones. I don't see those much in West Seattle, but they abound in neighborhoods like the U District and Capitol Hill which are destinations as well as residential areas.

And hey, I can't park on a patch of asphalt that I actually own because it's also a fire lane easement...

Posted 3 years ago #
CaptainBroncs
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Oh my, What's a resident to do. I'll just take what pennies didn't disappear from my 401K, and save some extra in savings and dig out a Driveway. Lets see them tell me I have to move from there heh heh heh.

I'm being silly now I know, and this is pretty much a dead issue, but I hate that I have to pay taxes on almost everything, pay to have my car registered and tabbed, pay to have a permit to park during extended hours and be treated like I don't deserve the services I pay for.

Sorry for getting frustrated people of West Seattle.

Posted 3 years ago #
PDieter
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FYI ones driveway used for parking also has to be on your property not in the city easement or right of way or you still have a problem

Posted 3 years ago #
flowerpetal
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I imagine that you can't even abandon cars in your own driveway. After a few years they begin to be rodent havens and general eyesores. I think that has been a discussion on the forums before.

Posted 3 years ago #
CaptainBroncs
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I agree with both posts.

Posted 3 years ago #
MrJT
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CaptianBroncs, Could you please come over to the Admiral area and thow the "curse of the PEO" to the JO that has about 8 of is friggin' ol cop cars that have been essentially abondonded for the 8 years or so.. Prime example, the Caprice that is abandoned on Andover that is in the picture the WSB took on the day the Charlestown reopened. PEO's don't seem to give a rip about this repeat offender, as many time as the neighbors complain. Thank for listening...

Posted 3 years ago #
dhg
Member Profile

MrJT: I know who you mean and I don't think they can ticket his cars because he moves them often. He used to space them out along the street with as much space between as he could manage without allowing another car in. Now he puts them closer together.
The Residency stickers allow cars to park overnight but not week-long. The point is to keep your street from being overwhelmed with Vashonites who'd love to keep a 2nd vehicle close to the ferry.

Posted 3 years ago #
anonyme
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Actually, I believe the ordinance states that the vehicle must move by 75 feet, not two feet, every 72 hours. My neighborhood is overrun with 'car ranchers' and has become quite a problem. Some of these guys have 12 or more vehicles that they park all over the neighborhood, and leave there until someone complains. Often these vehicles are broken down pieces of junk, which makes the area look like a slum. I think SPD has been cracking down on this a bit more in the last year or so. The ordinance seems perfectly reasonable to me; if you have multiple vehicles that you don't use,and no place to park them except on the street - well, maybe you shouldn't have them?

Posted 3 years ago #
MrJT
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dhg - the only time I have seen them moved is when they did the street sweeping after the storm. and the one is still sitting on Andover where it has been since JUNE.

Posted 3 years ago #
CaptainBroncs
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I still think if they pull your license plate and can match your address they can see you live there. Most residence in Fauntleroy have driveway and garages and few of us have to park on the streets, They should cut us some slack. Just unfair.

Posted 3 years ago #
AlkiRagdoll
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Pulling the license plate and doing the match doesnt stop vehicle ranching. The 72 hr policy is the only protection that the rest of us have. Its my belief that there should be one vehicle per person, unless you garage the vehicle. Ya know you can park at Jefferson Square in their structure for less than $100 per month... mega times cheaper than NYC. I just called in a vehicle that has not been moved in weeks.... and I hope it gets towed and costs the owner big bucks to get back, as maybe they will get rid of the junker.... notice that few of these cars that need removal are nice cars. I agree with the slum comment.

Posted 3 years ago #
alki_2008
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I'm going to go with CaptainBronc on this one. As already noted, the 72-hr rule doesn't help with car ranchers that just move their cars every 3 days...or longer - so it's obviously not solving that problem.

Of course, I'm also biased because I had a single car parked on a residential street and was tagged and ticketed. I called the city to ask why they ticketed me after I had moved my car to the other side of the street, and they said that a neighbor was complaining about my car and that I'd need to park on an entirely different street or else get ticketed/towed. Mind you, there was only one other car that would park on that street, on either side. Since I bus to work everyday, and don't go out much, then I usually only drove on the weekends. It was ridiculous. I was parked right in front of my own house!

Also, what if someone works a graveyard shift or something and only moves their car at hours that their neighbors wouldn't even notice. If they park in the exact same spot every morning after returning from work, but it looks to the neighbors that the car hasn't moved, then should they be tagged/ticketed/towed?

If the real problem is hoarding cars, then how about an ordinance that addresses that...rather than an indirect and ineffective 72-hr rule?

Posted 3 years ago #
littlebrowndog
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What about when I take Shuttle Express to the airport and my lone car is left in one spot for 4-5 days while I am out of town? What am I supposed to do with it? Or what if I took the bus to the airport? These are the "green things" our mayor and others are asking for. Sometimes out of fear of being ticketed/towed I park in a lot near the airport for $80-90. But to get there I have to drive, a lone driver rather than a van pool or bus.

Posted 3 years ago #
AlkiRagdoll
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Seems to me that several of the situations (such as taking a vacation) are easily remedied by getting to know your neighbors. In my 'hood, neighbors look out for one another during vacations. However, if a homeowner has multiple vehicles making it difficult for others to navigate the street or park near their homes, its not conducive to "being neighborly". The car I called about is a vehicle left infront of a house that has been foreclosed upon... and the owner vacated 6 months ago. Its clear that they left the beater behind rather of pay to dispose. If you have a neighbor that is reporting your car, I say either get to know your neighbors and find a peaceful street solution, or find a garage for your multiple vehicles. I have always found most neighbors to be reasonable.

Posted 3 years ago #
MrJT
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This whole thing is a prime example of how F'ed up this City can be. Punish the law abiing ones, an turn your back on the problem.

Posted 3 years ago #
waterworld
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Let's be clear about what the ordinances are before we declare the City to be the source of all evil in our lives. SMC 11.72.440 says you can't park on the street for more than 72 hours. That ordinance does not apply to "junk motor vehicles" or "junk abandoned motor vehicles." Under SMC 11.72.500, you can't park those on the street at all.

What's a junk motor vehicle? That's defined in 11.14.268. You can google it for the fine print, but in essence, if it is extensively damaged, apparently inoperable, worth less than $500, it's junk.

Getting law enforcement to deal with the ranchers may requires some community mobilizing, but the ordinances do seem to provide the basic tools.

As for the issue of how far or where you have to move your car to avoid enforcement of the 72 hour rule, I can find nothing in the SMC that says it's two feet, 75 feet, or around the block. Maybe someone else knows where that comes from. Might be urban legend.

Posted 3 years ago #
Anonymous
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According to this answer by a Seattle police officer, the 72 hour rule is the city encouraging you to leave your car at home. Apparently elsewhere (outside the city?), the law is 24 hours.

BTW, per same article, handicap plates or placards make you exempt from both rules.

http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/transportation/277772_getthere17.html

Posted 3 years ago #
CaptainBroncs
Member Profile

I agree that getting to know your neighbor is the best thing, but when its not the neighbor (heavily trafficked area) PEO is on you. Junk cars are those that obviously do not move at all but cars under $500 are not necessarily junk cars, an eye sore maybe. I have a beater that I use to go to work with because it saves on gas (Believe it or not) and its what I can afford to own, especially in this economy. I don't do car payments and can't afford a decent used or pre-owned vehicle. And the notion of me paying to park my car several miles away from my home doesn't work, its bad enough I struggle to maintain my mortgage payments. I didn't pay for parking in NY I'm certainly not going to do it here, especially when its parking in front of my home. whats even funnier is my two vehicles are the only ones that's ever parked there the majority of the time. My neighbor to the left and right of me have their own garages so I know its not them reporting me. So should I be punished for being nearly broke? I think not. As MrJT said "Punish the law abiding ones, and turn your back on the problem." Its just easier to pick on the ones following the rules. We don't put fear in the authorities and we don't hide. I also work graves so I guess I just have to play the move the car around game. And waterworld is correct there is no distance required to move your vehicle. Just moving your vehicle is all thats required.

And I would like to thank you all for participating in this conversation, at least I know I can learn all aspects of this subject from everyone. And no one is incorrect in my eyes. An opinion is everyone's right, and I appreciate everyone's opinion on this subject. I may not agree but I do acknowledge you all.

Thank you all again...

Posted 3 years ago #
Erik
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Super Rave for parking enforcement!
The 4 PsOS that've been camped in front of my house on Admiral are now moved (for now).

Posted 3 years ago #
WSratsinacage
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I wish parking enforcement would do something about the crown vic lover who has his fleet camped around California and Andover. He moves them if he gets a sticker or if there are no parking signs put up by the city, tree triming along CA for example, but other than that, the cars just sit collecting dust for weeks/months. Myself and others have been reporting the owner for years. The city must have some record of writing warnings for years but it is allowed to go on. I'm not surprised at the parking enforcement behavor just frustrated with this a situation. If someone cares about their neighborhood and reporting law breakers, they have 2 options: ignore it and risk the problem getting worse/neighborhood going down hill or "get involved" by reporting law breakers and have basically the same thing (nothing) happen. How motivating.

Posted 3 years ago #
JoB
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this thread does bring up a valid point...

what exactly is street parking for? especially in a residential neighborhood...

would a parking sticker allowing you to park your functional car on your street be a good thing?

Posted 3 years ago #
grr
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the car rancher in our hood finally seems to removed ONE of his 3 POS vehicles. The other two just sit for weeks, unused, until he gets a ticket.

Posted 3 years ago #
CaptainBroncs
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Does anyone believe this could be something I could bring up to the city council about. Maybe modify Parking Ordinance. It is obvious from this thread that I'm not the only one with this problem.

Maybe for those that have zone stickers be exempt as they do for the handicap. At least this way they can reduce or eliminate the car ranchers. The stickers at present only allow for you to have to vehicles per residence.

Plus Its proof of residency, all the money for paperwork spent won't be worth for car ranchers to maintain vehicles in the area. Maybe I'll draft something up to submit to the city council. I'll just have to figure out how to get it to them.

Posted 3 years ago #
JoB
Member Profile

CaptainBroncs..

i am all for you going for it..

and i would bet that you will find plenty of support when you get it drafted...

if i were you i would start a new thread titled something like access to city council? or help with access to city council... and ask for help.

my guess is that someone has here has done something similar and can help.

Posted 3 years ago #
CaptainBroncs
Member Profile

JoB,

Consider it done. I appreciate all who supported this thread. I will still continue this one but I will start "Help with City Council Submission".

Thanks again..

Posted 3 years ago #