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Republican candidates for Prez

Started 7 months ago by JanS
Latest reply from redblack

JanS
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I know some of you have said that you're donating to Herman Cain. Some of you other Repubs have your own choices. So...why?why?why? I'm curious as all getout. Is it their political savvy? Their lack of it? Their knowledge of foreign affairs? Their lack of it? For Herman Cain supporters, is it his "999" plan? And can you explain that to me, and how it will actually help, since most economists say it will only make things worse? What is it besides "we need a change". This isn't a time to bash Obama. Many of us see his shortcomings, even if we did vote for him. I just want to know what turns you on about your prominent Repub candidates.

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/10/08/opinion/blow-desperately-seeking-someone.html?_r=1&nl=todaysheadlines&emc=tha212

Posted 7 months ago #
Smitty
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Romney is my man.

Smart, well educated, proven in private and public sector. Believes in capitalism over socialism, a strong unapologetic America and that smaller more efficient government and the repeal of Obamacare regulations are the best way to get us out of this nightmare of an economy. Rubio should be his Veep.

Don't believe the media hype that Republicans are not happy with the field. It is their only play at this point since defending Obama is impossible.

Posted 7 months ago #
JanS
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so...Smitty, tell me how you feel about Romney's seemingly "flip flopping" on subjects. Does that bother you? Do you just see it as "change"? Do you get why others may see him as saying things depending on which way the air is blowing just to get votes? You are, from previous inferences, a capitalist. Some of your neighbors may feel that corporations are too big for their britches. Can Romney represent them , too? Can he truly understand where these people are coming from, since he is perceived to be "elitist" (i.e. multiple houses on both coasts, the 12 mil renovation , etc.)You really feel that he can get this country back on track, given the position the country is in right now?

and can you get through a discussion on Republican candidates without once mentioning Obama?

Posted 7 months ago #
JanS
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Marco Rubio just said the other day he's not interested in being Veep...but we all know how those things change when the time comes. He has stated that SS and Medicare have weakened us as a country, that they have made us "soft", and that they could be done away with. I have a hard time with that, as a 64 yo, with kidney failure, on the national transplant list, who just got early Medicare because of it. I work, but just part time now (am considered disabled, although I don't really think of me that way), and I am not married, so have no spouse to help support. One child, who doesn't have the means to support mom. Have been self-employed for 17 years.And, yes, will rely on SS. Tell me how I can reckon myself with those who want to "Reform" it, since I see those words as meaning "take away". And those contributions that I made to SS, etc..can I get a refund on them if SS is changed?(lol-yeah, right).

Other Repub candidates feel the same was Rubio does...what are your feelings on that issue? Oh, and thanks for answering.

Posted 7 months ago #
dobro
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It's kind of humorous to think that Romney is against "Obamacare" since it is nearly an exact replica of "Romneycare" as instituted by him in Mass.

Your endorsment is naught but pure talking points. "strong unapologetic America" and "smaller more efficient gov't" (from the guy that brought us Romneycare aka big gov't healthcare with a mandate). What a joke.

Posted 7 months ago #
DBP
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I think it's gonna be Romney for the Repubs, simply because he's the most mainstream. After dwelling so long on the fringes, the Republican Party really NEEDS to look a little more mainstream now. As I said in another post, that strident pro-business, pro-church stuff might play well in the sticks, but not here in the Big City. In other words, not in MOST of America.

Once Romney pulls out in front, he's going to be spending a lot of time explaining Mormon theology (golden tablets, magic underwear, etc.) and trying to convince us that his own Mass. health care plan is somehow less "socialist" than the Obama plan.

Good luck with that, my friend . . .

Meanwhile, Obama needs just one more political victory to clinch it. I predict that victory will come in the form of the Obama health care plan being upheld in court.

Smitty, it matters not whether Republicans aren't happy with their candidates. AMERICA is not happy with them.

Posted 7 months ago #
JanS
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I do see where an "evangelical" pastor of note has said..just yeaterday, I believe..that Romney is "not a Christian", that Mormonism is a "cult"...and that this pastor expects that "evangelicals" will vote only for other "evangelicals". Guess he means he'll vote for Perry...warts and all. I shake my head as to why that's important at all., but that's just me.The fact that someone expect another to legislate based on his religious beliefs is unsettling. But it's out there...sigh...

Posted 7 months ago #
dobro
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I think it'll end up being Romney, too. I agree that the nutcase parade will continue until the primaries get going and then Republicans will realize that if their candidate is to have any chance at all it'll have to be someone that can at least pretend to have some moderate views.

Posted 7 months ago #
JanS
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and some knowledge of world views", dobro...we have to deal with world things, two wars, Israel, trade, etc...I'm seeing a real lack of that knowledge..

Posted 7 months ago #
Smitty
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I am not a religious bigot, and I hope others are not either. Mormom, Catholic, Muslim, whatever. There is separation for a reason.

Flip flop? They all do it. His don't bother me to the point of not trusting him. Especially healthcare. One was a State issue, the other Federal. Very different.

Gimme break on fortunes. So if you are wealthy you can't be a man of the people? You are automatically ruled out of any kind of empathy?

Something tells me that Romney has the smarts to deal with international issues. Some of his predecessors (is that non-specific enough?) had very little international experience when they took office.

Posted 7 months ago #
JanS
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I'm glad you said "some"..the administration previous to the current one didn't have all that much international experience...look where that got us now. I'm not saying being moneyed has anyting to do with anything. In a way, they are all monied...look at the campaign amounts they raise...and , frankly, the standard of living for most in the congress is way above mine. They travel in a world that most of us know nothing about, as far as I'm concerned. I am just truly interested in why one likes the more conservative candidates, and why. It can't just be because "we don't like Obama"...

I agree...religion should have nothing to do with it..yes, there's a separation for a reason. But..for this pastor to suggest what he did is beyond my comprehension. And for "evangelicals" to vote for someone just because they, too, are "evangelical"..makes no sense to me..

also..are you suggesting that what they do on a state level should have no bearing on what they do/believe they should do on a federal level? I disagree, if that's what you're saying...

Posted 7 months ago #
elikapeka
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Not a Republican, but if I were, I'd go with Fred Karger or Huntsman. But neither of them are crazy enough to get through the primary. Romney will probably end up by default. I think he's a lot more moderate than he now appears to be, but you have to appeal to the extremists in that party to get nominated, so he's playing that game. Once he has the nomination, then he'll head back to the center, where I think his natural tendencies lie. But in my book, he's been a little too willing to compromise his principles. Too much flip flopping for me to trust him.

And really, enough with calling Obama a socialist. In any other time, he would have been a moderate Republican, for crying out loud.

Posted 7 months ago #
kootchman
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Romney is well coiffed "technician". I read his plan. It is as invigorating as tapioca pudding sans any vanilla. Obama has no world view. I have yet to read the book, Confidence Men" by Suskind but he was uniquely the most unqualified presidential candidate in our modern history. Cain is my estimation brings a much fuller experience. Does Romney understand the poor? No. Cain started his business career working in that most pedestrian of businesses, food and food service. I suspect the residuals of race made food service his entry gate. A Morehouse, Rutgers math graduate? I don't think Burger Kind would attract that degree of credentialed graduate today. His turnarounds involved the human resources at hand. I also believe, he has the balls to take on the executive branches, the career bureaucrats and make delivery of government services more efficient. This is a man who understands maximum use of resources on a practical level. He also understands the allocation of assets and the protection of capital and delivering both to where it is best used. "9.9.9" is a statement of intent. Simplify a tax code that is loaded with exemptions and special interests. Broaden the tax base. This is a liberal sanctuary. DBP's commentary says it all... most of America in not in the Seattle corner. If it was, we would be weaving to and fro in unison with nary a conservative in sight. Have you looked at the make-up of Congress... ? THAT is the make-up of most of America. Conservative, suspicious of spending, angry at waster and abuse, and angry at the arrogance of a nanny state. The exersize regime of Romney is to raise his finger to the wind 100 times per day to see which way to tack the sails... we have that now. We asked a community organizer to run the most complex economy, the largest military, engage the world, a Harvard trained liberal, to run at it's heart a centrist or slightly right of center society, with enclaves of liberal dependency. He mistook the enclaves to be the majority. Finally, to do a turnaround...you have to have the intellectual honesty to WANT to see the facts. Wishing does not change a balance sheet or P & L . Cain I believe would tell his Atty Gen, to get his ass up on the Hill.. and in excruciating detail, give the full story of things like Fast and Furious. That is how executives run a tight ship. He respects the oversight role of Congress.

Posted 7 months ago #
JoB
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kootch...

here we go again
ASSumption 101

Obama caters to enclaves of liberal dependency?

where do you get this stuff?

I don't think there is such a thing as an enclave of liberal dependency..

but i can tell you that enclaves of liberals wish he catered to us.

He doesn't. He caters to you.

busted again.

Posted 7 months ago #
elikapeka
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"We asked a community organizer to run the most complex economy, the largest military, engage the world, a Harvard trained liberal, to run at it's heart a centrist or slightly right of center society, with enclaves of liberal dependency" (Sorry, I haven't figured out how to do the quotes with the pretty blue box.)

So someone who works to get a good education and instead of going for the big bucks uses it to to work for the public good is someone to be mocked and not admired. That's exactly what's wrong with the Republican party today. They celebrate greed and stupidity.

And I don't understand the fascination with running the government like a business. It's not a business and you can't run it like one. The most successful presidents, at least when it comes to running things (not policy, necessarily) are usually governors. They have the mix of executive and governmental experience that's needed.

Sorry for the thread drift.

Posted 7 months ago #
kootchman
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Ya got a guy who is not up to the job. Look there are great students out there with PhD's in all sorts of disciplines. None related to the presidency. Middle America to Obama was a complete mystery... and still is...How about a president who got a great education, AND worked for private business, AND has military experience, AND understands leadership AND understand TRADE, and has demonstrated succes in turning around large moribund organizations? You have the option of a multi-dimensional man. I would take it.

Posted 7 months ago #
kootchman
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JoB ... he caters to anyone who will write a campaign check... for the brief moment you are endorsing it. We got his number and we see his numbers.

Posted 7 months ago #
kootchman
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The Dude in Chief gets a joint house session... pass this bill... hell, he hadn't even written it... he went off on a two week fund raiser the day after the speech. Six weeks later the bill hits congress...He wanted a straight up pass the bill..then no Democrat wanted to go on record as voting for it in the Senate. The Senate Republicans put it up for vote .. just as he asked... two weeks after they got it... Harry Reid tabled the motion.actually said he had more important things to work on... The guy can't even lead his own party let alone the country. I will say one thing about an effective, powerful president.. like RR...he can keep his own dogs on a leash.

Posted 7 months ago #
JanS
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another decent thread shot to hell by the KMan...I asked for opinions, not dissertations - lol...or arguments....and I was hoping that you could discuss the finer points of the Repub candidates on their merit, without bringing Obama into the fray. But that's simply too much to ask, isn't it? And don't give me the line about this being a public forum, and it can go any way. There are plenty of threads where you can spew your hatred of Obama...

yes, another dialysis night...makes me cranky at times...

Posted 7 months ago #
JanS
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and...for the record...you said nothing uniquely about Mr. Cain...talking points all that I can get from any conservative rag. I want your own thoughts...original ones...now that's a unique idea, isn't it?

Posted 7 months ago #
JanS
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again, for the record...tell me in all honesty that the Repub run House voted to pass the jobs bill without tacking some things on to it that others might have a problem with. Eric Cantor has gone on record as saying the jobs bill is DOA in the House as is...give me a break !

Posted 7 months ago #
Jiggers
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I'm voting for Perry regardless...

Posted 7 months ago #
JoB
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kootch...

so please identify these liberal enclaves of dependency that are writing those big big checks...

last i looked they were mostly bankers

jiggers...

not funny :(

Posted 7 months ago #
kootchman
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What are you snooping for? You ask for what reasons... we tell ya, then you go wiggy... how about because he isn't Obama or anything like him. Those ARE reasons.

Posted 7 months ago #
JanS
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I'm not going wiggy. Because he's not Obama isn't a good enough reason. If that's all it is, we are doomed to repeat, and repeat. I sincerely and honestly want to know how these guys are affecting Repubs personally...I want to understand why you think that whoever you're for is a better candidate., what you think they will accomplish that isn't being done now, what you truly like about them..in YOUR words, not some news show, or something that you've read..because I ain't seein' what's so special about any of them...so I have to ask. Is that too difficult to understand?

Posted 7 months ago #
redblack
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i think smitty's right. but for a different reason:

money.

willard romney has more of it than anyone else on the slate.

what i want to know is if/when republicans are going to get angry about pay-to-play in elections and media selection of their candidates.

seriously. i'm pretty sure the founding fathers didn't intend for the guy with the most money to take the election.

cripes. it's more like a cattle auction.

[ don't worry, jan. i won't let kootch beat up my fist with his face in this thread. :) ]

Posted 7 months ago #
Smitty
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I think Romney had more money than McCain in 2007.

Obama raised and spent twice that of McCain, but I don't think that is why he won. Is this just a Republican thing?

http://www.opensecrets.org/pres08/

Posted 7 months ago #
redblack
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no, it isn't just a republican thing. i just don't ever hear republicans complain about it when it comes to republicans.

i'll be the first to call obama's billion-dollar price tag for the white house utter b.s.

Posted 7 months ago #
Smitty
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I think that is because we don't complain about it much regardless of party.

Posted 7 months ago #
JoB
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Smitty...

we complain.
We don't insist our legislators do something about it
and they don't because it's not in their personal best interests

the wolves have the keys to the hen house and they aren't likely to do anything to change that on their own.

Have you heard of the personhood movement?
it's all about trying to get back those keys.

Posted 7 months ago #
redblack
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smitty: but why not? does the free market apply to "elected" office, too?

Posted 7 months ago #
Smitty
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While I think you definitely need money of you want to play, it doesn't necessarily guarantee victory. Many examples, including Ross Perot.

I don't think it's why Obama won and I don't think it's going to be the reason Romney gets the Republican nod.

Posted 7 months ago #
elikapeka
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Kootchman, my response to your post wasn't about Obama in particular. It's that the Republican party seems to be against so many things that used to be considered admirable. Someone who is educated is now elitist. Someone who volunteers and works in the community (unless it's for an approved cause) is now a socialist. There are entire slates of Republican candidates at all levels who deny evolution, who denouce global warming, who are generally anti-science. The firefighters and policemen who were the heroes of 9/11 are now greedy union thugs, along with the teachers. These are professions that used to be admired. I just don't think this song is playing well anywhere, not just in liberal Seattle.

I don't agree with most of Cain's positions. I also think his background shows him to be an authoritarian, and our system of government isn't designed for that. I agree that Obama hasn't shown enough leadership, but I think Cain would be too much the other way. And anybody who says in this economy that if you're unemployed it's your own fault shows a gross lack of understanding of economics. He should certainly know better.

The Republicans have created a big problem for themselves. They cater to the extreme right of the party, but the candidate acceptable to that wing of the party will never win the general election. I still think Huntsman is your best chance to unseat Obama. But he's poison to the kingmakers.

Posted 7 months ago #
Jiggers
Member Profile

Job.didn't know what i was saying or thinking i typed in perry. the i.v. meds given to me over the weekend at the hospital has not got me thinking straight..:( but i think it ws perry's dad who is the racist. but him being from texas, you know how they think down there.

Posted 7 months ago #
kootchman
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Read "Scam"..No one ever said the 9-11 first responders were nothing but stellar. Not not every firefighter or police in the United States ran into the building on 9-11 and should bask in those honors either. we have police in THIS city with multiple counts of brutality, causing paralysis, shooting a legally blind wood carver dead in a crosswalk. URL of the poster boy of police unions,

http://www.lineofduty.com/the-blotter/110732-lingering-effects-of-the-cop-shove-seen-round-the-world

So egregious are the work protection rules.. the NAACP has to call in the US DOJ to investigate King County Sheriifs, SPD...just in case you want to call it isolated cases... it is systemic. Why does Seattle not have a civilian review board?
Union work rules shielded him. He has MULTIPLE offenses, two trips to the police academy for "rehabilitation" and is still on the job. Or the drunk, off duty cop, who chases someone from Capital HIll to WS, in an unmarked car, waving a private pistol, and cost the city over 1.5 million in legal fees alone and was found guilty... union rules shielded him and he is on the job still. Hmmm? Or the over 400 teachers in NYC who report to the "Rubber Room" on full pay with no duties..because they are deemed too dangerous to teach kids..but can't be fired. Union rules. Funny how that works eh? A unionized teacher work force that claim 40 year of a stalled SAT score, falling from the top five to the mid twenties in educational achievement. Call me naive, but when a HS school teacher sends over 40 e-mails to a 15 year old girl for oral, anal, sex. om a classroom computer and admits it...imagine that at O'Dea, Lakeside, The Bush school, Holy Names? Crap.. he wouldn't have finished the day before being escorted off campus.... it shouldn't take 6 years and over a million dollars in legal expense to fight the NYEA to dismiss him. Who is making progress? Charter schools. Read the education boards.
I agree with global warming... too bad political impulse overrode the standards of scientific inquiry discrediting much of the work and progress. distortions set the debate back years..progress derailed.

http://articles.cnn.com/2009-11-23/tech/hacker.climate_1_climate-research-unit-global-warming-mails?_s=PM:TECH

Of course we have a right wing fringe. As the left has their fringe. Your brush stroked are overly broad IMO... Leadership better have elements of authority.. Obama should have exersized some as the head if his party and the executive branch of government, I can understand his reluctance, he is not comfortable in the role of leadership, hence he can't exersize authority..he has none. No great leader lacks authority and the willingness to use it. Perhaps these professions that you say were so admired, lost that admiration when the public saw confrontational trade unionism creep into their sense of entitlements and self protections. Funny, self described conservative, poll after poll, shows are more charitable givers than self described liberals. Why is that?

Posted 7 months ago #
kootchman
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Funny thing... FDR and even George Meany, you should know both right?.. said they were opposed to unions. Why?

The founders of the labor movement viewed unions as a vehicle to get workers more of the profits they help create. Government workers, however, don’t generate profits. They merely negotiate for more tax money

A.F.L.-C.I.O. Executive Council’s 1959 advice: “In terms of accepted collective bargaining procedures, government workers have no right beyond the authority to petition Congress — a right available to every citizen.”

http://www.nytimes.com/roomfordebate/2011/02/18/the-first-blow-against-public-employees/fdr-warned-us-about-public-sector-unions

Yes indeed.. that is why we have spy cameras on public streets...parking fees through the roof, $50 month tax on bars that have a dance floor, $142 dollar fines for a rolling right on red stop. The list is endless and it is growing...

Posted 7 months ago #
JoB
Member Profile

kootchman...

"No one ever said the 9-11 first responders were nothing but stellar."

Then you should be 100% behind their unions efforts to get them quality medical care and benefits for the injuries and illnesses they sustained responding to the tragedy that we call 911.

You should also be asking why firefighters and police and other first responders were not honored guests at the recent milestone commemoration.

Even if you only honor those firefighters and first repsonders who showed up for 911... how far does that honoring part you talk about go?

Does it go far enough to take care of them when they need care due to on the job injuries and work related illness from responding to 911?

What is a scam is saying you honor those who risked their lives to save others while refusing to stand up for those who do so and doing your best to demean their profession .

shame on you

Posted 7 months ago #
elikapeka
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Kootch, yes, I am painting with a broad brush for this thread, because I'm relating it to the topic of the R nomination process. Most people follow politics with a very broad brush.

The point I'm trying to make is that the fringe of the party is controlling the message, and I don't think it's sitting well with most people. We'll find out.

I won't disagree for a minute that there are bad cops and teachers, but as usual, you take a conversation and throw a bunch of other stuff into it. There's also lots of good cops and teachers and public employees, and I don't think most people like the way they're being portrayed by the right. See Walker in Wisconsin and Kasich in Ohio - they've got big trouble, and you can't get more middle America than those states.

Same thing with booing the gay soldier and cheering executions and letting somebody die because they don't have insurance, all of which happened at recent debates. And not one candidate called the audience on any of it. That's the kind of stuff that plays well to the few and turns off the many.

I'm not trying to discuss the merits of these individual positions with you, at least in this thread, because we clearly disagree and that's okay. I'm trying to look at how the overall message of the party is being directed by the far right and how it's sitting with most people. I think they sound a bit nuts. I'm just interested in seeing how the party will reconcile these factions. I think John McCain actually had a shot at winning last time until he ran too far to the right to appease that faction. We'll see.

Posted 7 months ago #
redblack
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smitty: dylan rattigan is reporting that 94% of elections are won by the candidate with the most money.

i gotta run, but i'll try and source that later.

in the meantime, suppose that number is accurate, just for discussion's sake.

does that change anything for republican voters?

Posted 7 months ago #
JanS
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http://www.nytimes.com/2011/10/10/opinion/is-the-tea-party-over.html?pagewanted=1&nl=todaysheadlines&emc=tha212

Posted 7 months ago #
Bostonman
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Well what I like about Cain isn't really one thing or many things but its the general idea that the 999 plan (which would never pass congress BTW) shows that he is willing to look at anything and everything. I agree he doesn't have crap for political experience compared to prior presidents but that isn't going to stop me. He will be surrounded by people who have been in government for years.

I want to elect someone who will look at the entire package and see what can be done. That is where I think some real world business experience helps. I will agree that government is huge compared to any business but its better than nothing. I don't want someone who will walk into the oval office and say ok, these things can't be cut or changed.

That has been a big problem for me since I was old enough to vote. Come to think of it this will only be my 5th presidential election and I have voted for 2 democrats and 2 replublicans. Anyways, I could write more and maybe later I will but I have a meeting.

Posted 7 months ago #
JanS
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hmm...Herman Cain...brilliant man..

http://thinkprogress.org/security/2011/10/09/339879/cain-uzbekistan-beki-beki-stan-stan/

Posted 7 months ago #
Bostonman
Member Profile

I have a good idea, I am going to start a post asking peoples opinions. I am going to complain when people go off on a tangent. I am also going to do nothing but link left wing websites to responses.

Ya, thats a conversation. Maybe one sided but hey, if crazy enough it can seem real.

Posted 7 months ago #
Smitty
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redblack, you may be correct. Sorry, no actual research other than I remember the freakonomics guys dismissing it (not that they were always correct).

Also, not sure if it's causal(sp?). I think Obama(for example) was popular and then raised lots of cash, not necessarily the other way around.

Posted 7 months ago #
JanS
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but if you do it, Bostonman..if you come on a forum and post nothing but right wing propaganda and beliefs, that's OK? Give me a break...your side isn't the only side...get over it. You want a conversation? Then start conversing instead of simply point out how those who don't feel as you do are somehow out of touch, or moronic, or don't know what they're talking about. Get rid of the condescension , and then maybe a conversation can start. But..why bother, when there is nothing that you might agree with other than the right wing side. People feel differently than you do on many things, and they're allowed to put those things in writing. What? They're only supposed to do it the way you want to? Go ahead and start your own thing about some opinion or other...ask their opinion about the color of the sky...and see if it gets a bit convoluted when they start talking about an entirely different topic...and all you wanted was an honest answer.

Posted 7 months ago #
kootchman
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Democrats had bodies. Republicans historically have had lower voter registrations. That would still be true today. Except, As an absolute majority, the Democrats no longer occupy that ground. Neither of the two parties can carry a national election on their registered constituents. The play in now in the middle with 'independents", or a conversion of registered voters. If Republicans can out message Democrats and secure the independents they win and vice versa. The base of each party is mostly irrelevant. If that is a correct assumption, yea, the big bucks tilt the table. Corporate money has yet to weigh in on the issue.

Posted 7 months ago #
elikapeka
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Kootchman, we agree!!!!

Posted 7 months ago #
JoB
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isn't life wonderful
we had a meting of the minds .. however fleeting
on a political topic...

no snark intended.

i think all moments of clarity are wonderful!

Posted 7 months ago #
kootchman
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I should quite while I am ahead.. but I won't. The more exposure we got of Obama..the less we liked. Same is true of Perry, "what;s her name", Romney... but this Cain guy... he is bucking the odds. He is still in play ... and keeps picking up the straw polls. and I would like to point out to all...coming into the Florida beauty pageant ... he was soooo short of cash. Sumin tells me.. we will get exactly what he says, He is not driving a centrist path. This is not a conventional wisdom campaign yet. He is driving the republican establishment nuts. Interesting though, he is getting strong independent support AND if the nominee.. he will get corporate support. Watch the sideline money. May he never get a new set of "handlers"... Democrats would have done better IMO if there was a primary challenge.

Posted 7 months ago #
JanS
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ahead in the straw polls..except for the Value Voters straw poll...won by Ron Paulo, and now the heads of the VV straw poll are saying to not put your money on those resluts, since they don't feel that the vote really reflects the feeling of the voters - lol...denying the validity of their own straw poll...go figure. I suppose that if you don't like the way the thing goes, just deny that it's really the way it was...amazing ! So...Cain didn't win that one, but the guy that headed the VV summit sure wishes he had...

Posted 7 months ago #

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