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(76 posts)

Really White Center?

Started 1 year ago by ToddinWestwood
Latest reply from maplesyrup

ToddinWestwood
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http://whitecenternow.com/2011/04/20/former-hang-aroundwall-reopens-as-medical-marijuana-lounge/

I am so angry I cant see straight.

Posted 1 year ago #
HelperMonkey
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why is this a problem? it's strictly for medical marijuana. Anyone who doesn't have an MMJ card doesn't get to go in there. I'd rather see this than all the shootings and beatings that used to happen in that location from all the drunks and the crackheads that used to frequent the place. Again, this is for MMJ patients. Generally a lot more mellow and less angry than drunks and crackheads. I am happy to see it there.

Posted 1 year ago #
ConcernedHedonist
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Redacted. I want to see where this goes first.

Posted 1 year ago #
JoB
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Helper monkey

as far as i know there is no card...

the governor is afraid the feds will arrest state workers for issuing one...

or for licensing places like this

I am in favor of the idea...
but not so sure about the particulars...

Posted 1 year ago #
Ken
Member Profile

MMJ cards are not handed out to every toker just for asking. I looked into it. I have two qualifying disabling conditions that involve pain of the type that could be helped by this med. But I am not advanced enough to qualify. I hope I go many years before it is bad enough to ask for a card but I want it to be there when I reach that point.

I support Hempfest as a member even though I have not been to the festival since the 90s.

But what is right is more important than what directly benefits me.

Posted 1 year ago #
MargL
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Interesting... http://www.komonews.com/news/local/120912454.html

Posted 1 year ago #
Ken
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http://www.doh.wa.gov/hsqa/medical-marijuana/docs/PatientAccess.pdf

Posted 1 year ago #
austin
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Access to relief from discomfort makes somebody so angry that they can't see straight? In a location that has formerly supplied alcohol, a known deadly drug, to the community at large? What am I missing here?

Posted 1 year ago #
ToddinWestwood
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said it before and I will say it again. I am not opposed to people finding relief where they can.
This is just as bad as a bar. People will come here get stoned, and then leave in their cars. People will come here with guns and violence to try to steal the weed in here. Dont even get me started on how easy it is to get a card and the "ills" that some use to get a card.

If marijuana is going to be issued as a medicine, then distribute it as a medicine. Not like a opium den.

Posted 1 year ago #
ConcernedHedonist
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Todd- I saw in the 35th/Rox dispensary post you mentioned it should be at Bartell's and Walgreens and what not if it's going to be sold, and I think your heart's in the right place with all that. But those places already get robbed for pills constantly, all over the country. Pills that are ADDICTIVE. Or that are used as precursors for worse drugs. Not only that, but they are corporations. Big ones. Tied in with the massive pharmaceutical industry...so the less we can involve them with ANYTHING the better. Them being corporations means they'd never do it anyway...they have a suburban, family-ish image to protect and would never take pot until it was well established in dispensaries because they wouldn't want the PR blowback. Which, you'll note, has nothing to do with the health interests of their customers. You're just on the wrong side of history with this one and I'm sorry that it frustrates you, but the deals pretty much done. You think there will still be all this legal limbo in three years? Or that it will come again to an outright ban? (And for the record, I don't really smoke it anymore and never liked it that much. Need my brains...but I'll have cancer soon enough)

Posted 1 year ago #
ConcernedHedonist
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...And regarding how easy it is to get a card...same deal. I have a dentist that will throw a Vicodin prescription at me so fast I can't even believe it. As far as I know he's a fine, upstanding, sober citizen...unlike myself, a walking heresy.

Posted 1 year ago #
AlkiCabCompany
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Prescription drugs and alcohol are worse. You take too many of those and you cannot drive or even talk straight. You can't overdose on weed.

No matter how drugs or alcohol are dispensed people are going to get it, if they want it. If they can't walk in and get it at that store, they will buy in on the sidewalk right outside the store from some guy.

I personally am more upset with all the junk food places there are that are killing people causing obesity and diabetes. And people get in their cars and drive after wolfing down a big Mac and they are Zombies. People are in food comas everywhere!! Ok, done ranting..

Posted 1 year ago #
sacatosh
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Hedonist, I think you and I see the same dentist. Love him -- not cuz of the prescriptions though -- he's actually a great dentist.

Posted 1 year ago #
MargL
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"You can't overdose on weed"... I'm not sure what this means.
You cannot take enough of it that you poison yourself and die? Or you can't smoke enough of it that you're impaired to the point that you cannot drive or talk straight?

Posted 1 year ago #
Harmonic
Member Profile

25 foot rule, 25 foot rule!!!!

oh wait, does that only apply to those of us who enjoy an "oh you're going to hell, you lit up a camel light folk"

where does the indoor air quality act fall with these folks (ie employees of said establishment) by the way, and although the snark is brewing, I'm truly curious why if I get a medical marijuana card, I gots me a hall pass now.......

Posted 1 year ago #
JanS
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I'm going to say it one more time. There are NO marijuana CARDS in the state of Washington. If someone says they have a "card", they are lying. We go to the dispensaries to purchase, not to imbibe. It's private use in my home...just like your beer, Todd. But mine is to alleviate some of the symptoms of Stage 5 kidney disease. I don't smoke, by the way. I'm not allowed to, since I am in testing for a transplant. But there are edibles, like brownies, fudge, cookies, and much more. And, by the way, they deliver....I don't have to go to them. But I have to prove that it's been "prescribed" by my physician. I'm 64, a mom, massage therapist. I do things that everyday people do. I hope to be a grandma in the next year to year and a half. Many people know me in these forums. I'm not a pothead, I don't walk around stoned all day long. Todd, I'm thinking you have a very skewed view of who goes to dispensaries. Just like people who abuse oxycontin (think fine, upstanding Rush L. - gag), there are abusers of this drug, too...but it's not an opium den, for g-d's sake!

Posted 1 year ago #
Harmonic
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Jan S, I lurk mostly. Todd has a point. I want you to feel better, I'm sorry you're hurting. Wouldn't it just be so much easier, so much clearer, if you went to go to bartell's to get the kidney meds and the pain meds? all in one? don't get me wrong....i 100% believe it should be legal and easy. and for those in need. Personally, I don't think a single iniative is "for you". I think it's just a stepping stone for the goverment to get their head out of their ass on the legalization of a stupid plant.

Posted 1 year ago #
ToddinWestwood
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I love how everyone thinks they can read my mind and how I think everyone is a hippy dope dealer pot head.

No.

I am trying to say really, I am a NIMBY. AGAIN, yes, if it helps you, you should be able to get it, do what you want with it, feel better.
But for gods sake, really a pot lounge? In a neighborhood that has a SEVERE drug and alcohol problem? W.C. is 5 blocks from my house. It has gotten so bad over the last few weeks, we stopped going to Full Tilt, we stopped going to Proletariat. I will go complain to the business owners next, so they can put pressure on W.C. or King Co.
Anyone can with enough effort get a "prescription" for weed.
I have a fear of my neighborhood going to shit, can I get one for my anxiety ?

Seems all fine and good as long as it's down here. Let's see them open a lounge up in Gatewood or in Admiral Dist.

Posted 1 year ago #
chrisma
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I know there are legitimate medical uses and users of cannabis and I think it's great that there is a legitimate way for those folks to get a quality product that can help them.

However, if you've picked up a copy of The Stranger or The Seattle Weekly lately you might get a somewhat different impression of the dispensaries and who their target demographic is. I don't think those ads featuring strippers photo-shopped into nurses uniforms are aimed at you Jan, or for that matter, anyone seeking relief of a medical nature.

Also, there seems to be no shortage of clinics in the city where you can get a prescription for one kind of medical condition or another. There's a very long list of symptoms that can be treated with cannabis, and, I believe, an almost equally long line of stoners lining up to get a diagnosis.

This is how it's done in the 21st century. Medical Marijuana is a thriving business looking for more customers.

Posted 1 year ago #
JanS
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It's not a lounge. It's a dispensary..you go there, you purchase, you leave. You don't sit around and get stoned with all of creation. It's not a big party, for goodness sake. It's just like picking up a prescription. You don't stay at your pharmacy with a bunch of people getting high (lol) on prescription drugs, vicodin, prednisone, whatever. You purchase, you leave, you go home. It's medicine for goodness sake...at least it is to us! I would welcome a dispensary in my 'hood. I don't have a car, have to rely on friends to get me there when I do need to purchase.

If you have a problem with people getting prescriptions when they shouldn't be, it's not the fault of the dispensary. It's the fault of unscrupulous , money hungry docs. Report them.

Posted 1 year ago #
JanS
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ok, Todd...I'll give you that...I stand corrected. I was not aware that it would be more than a dispensary. I know I won't be frequenting their establishment. I don't need to sit around with like persons while I'm having a bite of brownie. I would prefer the more reasonable plain ol' dispensary. I'm sure that an eye will be kept on this place and if there's anything untoward, it will get shut down. Is the sheriff's office still down the street? If so, I bet they'll be watching, for sure.

Posted 1 year ago #
JanS
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chrisma...and if you look in the stranger and the weekly, there are ads for the not legit kinds of massage, too. I wish they wouldn't publish them, as it gives some people the wrong idea about what I do. I would never advertise like that. But it attracts a certain type. Maybe some pressure could be put on the newspapers to not take this kind of ad, have a bit of integrity. But we both know that the almighty dollar takes precedence over what is right.

Posted 1 year ago #
beef
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Afraid of dope smokers? wheee! i go to prol and FT once a week with my 2 kids. Never feel threatened in the least bit. Don't see how a pot lounge is going to make the vibe of that street any worse. more mellow if anything.

Posted 1 year ago #
westseattledood
Member Profile

Hey all -

Thought I'd pop in on this one briefly.

Todd - if you, or anybody for that matter, are witnessing crimes on the streets of White Center, I will assume you are getting on your cell and calling KCSO. And remembering while you do that there are usually only three on-duty deputies in all of North Highline - to serve about 20,000 people. Budget cutbacks took 'em.

If you, or ANYBODY, sees ANYTHING, call the phone number. The KCSO Storefront is not always manned and if you do go in, they will likely ask if you have called the report in already. The storefront is not intended as a place to report crime. And while you are being a good citizen and calling the KCSO to report something, and that absolutely includes suspicious activity, go knock on the doors of the nearby businesses and bug them to call in the same thing. If businesses don't call in anything, the cops do NOT have the data for effective coverage, even with the scant number of deputies. Everybody and their brother needs to call everything in. Dispensaries or no dispensaries.

The Green Piece lounge is NOT the standard dispensary model. There is only one other *known* existing medical marijuana lounge in the entire country and it is located in Portland, OR - the Cannabis Cafe. Many unique issues with this model arise. For instance, do DUI laws affect the "patients/clients" who emerge? Yup.

This is a strange interim in the process of the legislation and the rampant growth of the dispensaries is all over the entire state, not just here. But White Center is definitely the only "lounge" model anybody I've talked to knows about. And, most of the people who should know, haven't heard about it because it hasn't opened up yet. That's scheduled for May 1, as is the other "store" style Herbal Legends a half-block north.

I've been told by Cannabis activists/lawyers that something is probably going to be announced on Friday out of Gregoire's office. Perhaps a veto, perhaps not. Even the Cannabis advocates who are directly talking to Gregoire are barely clear on what the heck is going on in Olympia with proposed alternative legislation for the special session. So hopefully everybody can sit tight till then so we can begin to know the what and the why and how. And, remember, you can always contact your legislators, right?

And JanS, hoping you're on your way to a successful surgery and feeling better very, very soon.

Posted 1 year ago #
WSB
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Her office has announced she will take action on SB 5073 today - this was the top of the news release we received shortly after 6 pm:

OLYMPIA - Gov. Chris Gregoire on Friday, April 29, will take action on several bills.

2:30 p.m. Gov. Gregoire takes bill action
Governor's Conference Room
Legislative Building - 2nd Floor
Olympia

She will take action on the following bills:

* Engrossed Second Substitute Senate Bill No. 5073, relating to the medical use of cannabis.

o After taking action on this bill, Governor Gregoire will be accepting questions from the media for a short period of time before continuing bill action.

==========
All the legal types I've spoken with while working on related stories, including Seattle City Attorney Pete Holmes, have said they were all but yearning for state action so they would know how to proceed with the exploding medical-marijuana industry. By most accounts, they will be disappointed, and then they will have to decide how they will proceed in their own jurisdictions - enforce the law (under which, these facilities are illegal, even if medical marijuana itself is not), or let it go on unregulated.

There also was some talk a different bill might be crafted during the special session that's now under way. This bill's sponsor is quoted in this Times story this morning
http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/localnews/2014903835_medpot29m.html
as saying she's working on one. (The story also mentions 3 federal raids in Spokane.)

Posted 1 year ago #
ToddinWestwood
Member Profile

@Beef, no not the potheads, the crack heads and drug sellers.

@Westseattledood, If someone was to report suspicious activity, then you might as well report all of 15th and 15th ave lately.

Posted 1 year ago #
Ken
Member Profile

Ok. What time of day are the crackheads and drunks mugging people in White center. I go through there fairly often and I seem to miss them every time. I do go to sleep early but sometimes I roll through WC shortly after 4 am on weekends and still don't see any. Of course I live in what many Seattle residents think of as Da Hood and I see mostly off leash dog walkers and both muslims and yuppies who can't get their cell phone off their ear to drive.

And what on 15th ave is attracting them? The social services building? Bartells? The bank?

I have lived in large cities most of my life and know how to spot suspicious activity. Maybe West Seattle has dulled my senses since the crime rate here is damn near invisible until someone kicks in your back door and steals your ipod.

What are you seeing and when?

Posted 1 year ago #
HelperMonkey
Member Profile

the bar that was there before, and the one before that was a haven for drunken violence and drug violence. Seriously scary. I wouldn't even walk past the place for fear of being shot, let alone go inside. give Green Piece a chance - it might be better for the neighborhood, you don't know. I'd rather take my chances with a stoned person vs a drunken crackhead any day.

It's not fair to stereotype this business before anything bad has happened. it's probably going to be better for WC than the scary, dangerous shithole that was in that space before.

Posted 1 year ago #
velo_nut
Member Profile

I just want to smoke my dope in peace man.

Posted 1 year ago #
redblack
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interesting. there's a massive contrast between the WCN comments and those in this forum.

the owners of the former bar are pretty upset, and they claim the property is in some kind of legal dispute. if they're not just bloviating after being ejected from the property, it sounds like they intend to sue the landlord. one of them even posted a comment to the effect of, "look at [what they've done to] my beautiful bar."

i'm not familiar with the hang around, so i'll reserve judgment. was it really that bad?

anyway, the state "legalized" medical marijuana, but it's still illegal to possess it. the new law only allows for medical use as a defense after you've been arrested for possession.

and we know that in seattle, if you don't have sufficient quantity, the cops will give you a slap, maybe take your stash, and not sully your good name.

but WC is not in seattle.

the language of the state law also allows practitioners to recommend marijuana use for a specific list of conditions. nowhere does it allow prescription of marijuana.

face it, folks. unless the state takes a hands-off approach, someone is going to have to go to jail for opening a dispensary. as TR pointed out, green piece is illegal. and unfortunately, that's how laws are tested for constitutionality. green piece would have to sue the state after being shut down in order to get a ruling or a clarification.

do they have grounds to sue? they might, because state laws are at odds with themselves.

then there's federal law. the DEA could shut this place down and arrest everyone inside. most would skate for possession or intent to buy, but the owner would be on the hook for trafficking/distribution/intent to distribute.

helpermonkey: did you mean

all we are saying/
is give (green) piece a chance?

funny.

Posted 1 year ago #
JoB
Member Profile

redblack...

that property has an interesting story...
the last tenant invested time, sweat equity and money to successfully turn it around and the owner terminated their lease.
They weren't Company.. but they were a definite step up for White Center and i hope they do well with their lawsuit.

Posted 1 year ago #
DP
Member Profile

It seems that the medical marijuana thing has morphed into a push for all-out legalization. I wonder how many of the folks who voted for medical marijuana on compassionate grounds foresaw that "medication lounges" would be the end result. And how many would have voted differently if they had known. Oh well. Live and learn.

People here have equated marijuana to prescription painkillers. OK. So why don't we have oxycodone lounges? Why don't we have vicodin lounges? Simple: because those drugs are not lifestyle drugs. And those drugs don't have a lobby that's pushing for full legalization of recreational use.

Come on, sillies. You don't need to go "hang out" somewhere with other patients to take your blood pressure meds, or have them baked into a brownie. Why would you need to do that with cannabis?

redblack made the telling observation that the reaction to this lounge on the White Center Now blog has been markedly different from the reaction on this one. No mystery there, either. People in White Center don't want this in their backyard because they've already got enough of an image problem, not to mention a policing problem. It's the same reason folks here didn't want a new jail at the bottom of the hill.

White Center's trying to become a safer, more family-oriented place, but that's hard when you've got people from outside saying: Hey! Let's legalize yet another addictive drug, and let's put an outlet for it right there in White Center. With all the dive bars around there, no one will even notice.

—Oh yes they will.

I say Yes to medical marijuana, No to medication lounges.

Posted 1 year ago #
MargL
Member Profile

I dunno - the whole 'lounge act' this business is setting up seems a little like taking advantage of the fact that medical MJ laws are in limbo. Maybe not quite an opium den, but more like a hookah bar. Those have also figured out ways to bypass indoor smoking bans.

Posted 1 year ago #
maplesyrup
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I live in the Admiral district and wouldn't care if a "lounge" or dispensary were opened in the neighborhood.

Here's the real problem with all of this: pot should be legal, but most politicians don't have the guts to say so and do what it takes to make it legal, regulated and distributed in an organized fashion.

So we get these back door solutions. And if that's what it's going to take to get the politicians off their asses and do what's right, then I say more power to the dispensaries.

And by the way I am not a pothead. I don't even drink.

Posted 1 year ago #
anonyme
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What DP and redblack said. The limbo laws are allowing the MM issue to be exploited in a ridiculous fashion. When does the 'bartender' at this lounge cut off patrons? How much is enough? Patients with a valid reason for using MM should be concerned about the way that stoners have taken over and tainted the argument for this product.

If this is truly a medicinal item, then it must be standardized and sold in regulated dosages - not by the primo bud, for smoking. (Smoking, by the way, is bad for your health regardless of the herb in the bowl.) You can't buy prescription drugs on Craig's List; why should you be able to buy weed?

There also seems to be a widespread, erroneous interpretation - again, by stoners - that legalizing weed or having a 'prescription' means that you can (or will be able to) use any time, anywhere. Not so. Weed may not be any worse than alchohol, but it's no better, either. It's still an abused substance that causes serious problems both personal and public.

Posted 1 year ago #
maplesyrup
Member Profile

Ok, what serious public problems does it cause?

Posted 1 year ago #
waynster
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First off love the poster DP.... crime in rat city never never wait let me smoke some more on that thought....Our govenor she is a lawyer you think she wouldn't be affraid of the big bad feds then again I see why. The attorney-general he woudn't defend it even if it went into law and was raided by the feds why his buddies in the GOP won't support him if he did it unless its heathcare and thats a different story see he eyes the govenors seat. So what most want once again no one gets.....

Posted 1 year ago #
anonyme
Member Profile

DUI, for one. Anyone who thinks that weed does not impair driving ability is either high themselves or delusional. Unfortunately, unlike alcohol, impairment is more difficult to measure.

People who are high do stupid, obnoxious, destructive things in public places. I don't care if it's beer, wine or weed. I work in an outdoor setting near Seattle that potheads love to hang out in. Just like drunks, they trample plants, try to climb trees, use gardens as toilets, and litter with their homemade aluminum foil pipes - or the food wrappers from their munchies. When asked to take their activities elsewhere, many become defiant and combative. I can't count the number of times I've been told by one of these individuals that they have a prescription and can therefore smoke weed anywhere and any time they want.

I'm sure there are many folks who smoke weed, medicinally or recreationally, who are responsible and respectful. But whether legal or not - currently NOT, btw - weed is still a substance of abuse, and substance abuse is a public issue.

Posted 1 year ago #
maplesyrup
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Those aren't issues with pot. Those are issues with people being idiots and jerks.

Posted 1 year ago #
anonyme
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There's no question that there are idiots and jerks everywhere, and that they exhibit many of the behaviors described above - with or without weed. However, add a mood-altering, judgment impairing substance and you've got a bigger problem than simply stupid. Weed, like alcohol, is a stupid enhancer.

I notice the DUI issue was sidestepped rather adroitly. A normally careful and ethical individual high on ANY substance, including weed, is quite as capable of killing innocent people as "jerks and idiots".

Posted 1 year ago #
maplesyrup
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DUIs while high would be illegal just like driving under the influence of alcohol, cough syrup or any other mind-altering substance would be.

And people who drive under the influence are idiots and jerks.

Posted 1 year ago #
JoB
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DP..

I don't know how to tell you this
but the "lifestyle drug" doesn't get people who are crawling the walls with pain high...
it doesn't do much for chemo patients either other than curb nausea and stimulate appetite..

I am at a loss to figure out how it is you think that people in that much distress are going to be hanging out at the local lounge...

All i can say is that if those who voted for medical marijuana on compassionate grounds are regretting their decision now because some fool opens a lounge that is not likely to stay in business...
they aren't very compassionate.

Posted 1 year ago #
anonyme
Member Profile

JoB, I interpreted DP's comment in the opposite way. I thought he was saying that patients in pain would in fact be unlikely to be hanging out at a lounge, and that a lounge seems slanted toward "lifestyle" users - not patients. I could be wrong, and I know DP is more than capable of clarifying that for us....:>

I'm thinking over your comments about cancer patients (as an example) not getting high, but only achieving pain management. It seems like there would still be some kind of high associated with use, especially at the point at which 'management' was reached. I'm trying to remember back to various surgeries I've had, one of which required a morphine drip. I can't remember if there was a high associated with it - or just unconsciousness! I suppose anyone in that much pain deserves a little buzz. As long as they're not driving.

Posted 1 year ago #
JanS
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I don't mean to make light of any of this, as I believe MMJ really does have a place in some people's lives...this is just a back at ya to DP :)

Posted 1 year ago #
austin
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There are not yet so many people in this world that there is no room for shades of grey.

Posted 1 year ago #
JanS
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Austin, I agree...and I didn't shape my tin foil into a pipe...I made mine into a hat :)~

Posted 1 year ago #
JoB
Member Profile

anonyme..

i can only repeat what other people in significant pain have told me about their experience with marijuana because it's one of those drugs on my wild ride to the ER list...

but i can tell you with certainty that i sometimes take pain medications that people abuse to get high and i am lucky to get partial pain relief and no buzz from them.

I know there is this perception that pain patients get enough medication to relieve pain and then maybe a little more besides...
and maybe some in temporary pain do...
but that isn't the reality for most chronic pain patients.

If your doctor isn't cross examining you when you let them know you need stronger medication and requiring a pain management contract designed to get you off the medications whether your pain is relieved or not..
the pharmacist is hassling you about filling your prescription..
often dolling a 3 month prescription out a little at a time "so you won't overdose"
(but really so you don't get the volume discount).

And all of that is after they send you to a psychiatrist to treat you for the psychiatric causes and "secondary gain" of being in pain.

yup.. they honestly believe you manufacture decades of pain so you can get attention...
overlooking the statistics that it doesn't work...
the marriages of people in chronic pain fail at an astounding rate:(

so much for the relief that was supposed to come when pain was recognized as one of the medical signposts:(

for the most part.. the people who end up with an ok to purchase marijuana products from their doctors have a very real need of them.

Did you know that most docs won't prescribe medical marijuana until after a patient has tried and failed at all other available pharmaceutical interventions?

lifetstyle drug my ..... :(

chronic pain and nausea are not a lifestyle choice anyone in their right mind would make...

What really burns me about this is that this kind of righteous indignation over people who appear to be abusing drugs makes it that much harder for people who really need them to get them..

and all it takes is the appearance of abuse to create this kind of public outcry.

I don't know if this lounge constitutes abuse ...
and with my sensitivity to smoke i am not likely to risk an ER trip to find out..

but it is evident that everyone thinks a medical marijuana lounge has to be a den of iniquity.. driving up crime rates..

even though statistics would indicate that marijuana is one drug that doesn't drive crime rates..
even for those who are recreational users.

It's way past time for everyone to take a deep breath and ask themselves if they are overreacting here.

the place isn't likely to last long anyway...
and if it does it is likely to get far more police attention than the bar down the street.

Posted 1 year ago #
redblack
Member Profile

i'd be willing to bet that dispensaries would be a lot more welcome if they were more like pharmacies: a little more clinical and business-like - with an emphasis on security, as the OP and other white center citizens have addressed - and less like an opium den.

sorry, recreational stoners. the law ain't quite on your side yet, and you're likely to lose out until someone goes to jail or sues the state.

imho, opening a pot lounge and calling it a dispensary is the quickest way to attract the attention of LEO, but it may have the upside of forcing the state to deal with it if green piece is busted.

DP: you speak truth, but i have to take issue with your assertion that pot is addictive. i hope the whole 1950's film-strips-about-drugs and "reefer madness" mentality doesn't creep into the argument. in other words, a little more norm stamper and a little less nancy reagan, if you please.

[edit: DP: i just read the I-1149 thread, and now i see where you get that assertion. no offense intended. full disclosure: i get high from time to time, and i have never craved it like... well, like i've craved a beer.]

and i'll give my support to the DUI argument: we don't need drunks doing 90 mph in a 50 mph zone while stoners are doing 35 in the left lane with their blinkers on. it's bad enough trying not to get killed by people who are merely stupid.

Posted 1 year ago #
redblack
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jo: i know people who have legal medical marijuana "prescriptions" - who don't have any of the symptoms or illnesses set forth in the law.

the law is already being exploited, and i think the state needs to get on top of this right quick.

or just legalize it altogether - with strict regulations and taxation - and let the feds challenge the state law.

seems to be the path of least resistance after opening this exploitable medical marijuana loophole for the recreational users.

Posted 1 year ago #
anonyme
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It seems to me that a lot of the claims made - perhaps on both sides of the question - are based on purely anecdotal evidence. For example, where is the proof, the data, supporting claims that "most" MM patients are legit, and abuse is rare? Statistics "proving" that marijuana use does not contribute to crime rates? JoB, I'm not specifically targeting you on this, as these are some of the most common claims floating about at the moment. I'm asking because I really want to know so that I can further educate myself, not to challenge anyone's integrity - especially those in real need of this useful medication. I'm merely rather fond of facts. While my own observations are indeed anecdotal, they are first hand observations.

In case I haven't made it clear in this particular thread (there are several on this topic going at present) I am in favor of legalization and voted for MM. My concern is the current loophole. Acknowledging that there is a problem does not negate the need for MM, nor does it challenge the integrity of valid users.

I think the lounge opening really clouded the issue; what I don't understand is why opponents of the lounge are seen as the enemy.

Posted 1 year ago #

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