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(34 posts)

Rats and Rats (to kill or not to kill)

Started 1 year ago by teacup
Latest reply from dbsea

teacup
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We guilty have bird seed outside of our house to feed the lovely birds. This however has lent itself to rats coming around the birdseed.

Gross. My husband wants to set out traps to kill them, but of course this makes me *sad*.

Anyone know of any way to get rid of the rats without having to snap a trap on their body, starve them to death or do some other thing that will likely keep me up at night?

And yes, removing the bird seed was my first option, but my husband really likes to see the birds come to the window. He has no problem with getting rid of them, it's me.

Anybody have insight? I've heard WS is chock full o' rats.

Posted 1 year ago #
Wednesday
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Short of a pied piper, for a quick, clean kill I'd suggest a Rat Zapper which kills by electrocution. It costs about $40, but it works well. You can get it at McLendons.

Posted 1 year ago #
Ken
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Every port city has rats. Kill them. The breeding cycle means they will outnumber humans quickly if the bold ones are not killed.

http://www.ipm.ucdavis.edu/PMG/PESTNOTES/pn74106.html

Posted 1 year ago #
PDieter
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keep feeding the birds
http://web.me.com/davidperryphoto1/GardenBlog/A_Photographers_Garden_Blog/Entries/2007/6/29_Care_and_Feeding_of_Crows:_Today’s_recipe,_‘Rattatouille’.html

Posted 1 year ago #
furryfaces
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Adopt a couple of working cats (backyard ferals). They are good employees...a couple of meals each day; fresh water; a dry, safe place to sleep, and they will take care of your rat problem--naturally. If interested, please email furryfaces@hotmail.com and we can share more info on how to make this work, while keeping the birds safe. Plus, we can connect you with a couple of feral kitties. Cheers,F3

Posted 1 year ago #
GenHillOne
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Yep, I'm going to go with cats as well, but don't know your specifics, so if you have coyotes roaming through your yard too, that may not be viable.
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BUT, here's the bottom line. Your husband is insisting on keeping the food source. Whether it's birdseed, foodscraps, or trash, he can keep killing rats for years to come and they will continue to migrate into the area for food unless the source is removed. Just "food for thought."

Posted 1 year ago #
lucky chick
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Please consider the negative impact of cats before you release them. You like the birds, right? Well, despite what the feral-cat advocates and their websites say, cats absolutely kill wildlife, including birds, and destroy nests. This is well-documented in the peer-reviewed literature (see some references below) and the denial by feral-cat advocates is completely unsupported by science. To quote Daniel Patrick Moynihan, "Everyone is entitled to their own opinion, but not their own facts." If you're just an animal rights activist, why would you value the cats' lives over that of the rats anyway?

.
By comparison, the 2 rat species you are seeing are non-native and don't belong here, from an evolutionary perspective.
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Since people here will attack me, I'll let you know that I'm a biologist who has been working on songbird population dynamics in developed landscapes for nearly 20 years. I don't make things up. Wouldn't know how to :).
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Current lit is reviewed here:

Longcore, T., C. Rich, and L. M. Sullivan. 2009. Critical assessment of claims regarding management of feral cats by trap–neuter–return. Conservation Biology 23(4):887-894
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and local literature samples here:
Marzluff, J.M., R. Bowman, and R. Donnelly, editors. 2001. Avian Conservation and Ecology in an Urbanizing World. Kluwar Academic Press, Norwell, MA. 585pp.
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Marzluff, J.M and K. Ewing. 2001. Restoration of fragmented landscapes for the conservation of birds: a general framework and specific recommendations for urbanizing landscapes. Restor. Ecol. 9:280-292.

Posted 1 year ago #
KBear
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Yeah, cats will take care of those pesky birds for you, too.

Posted 1 year ago #
lucky chick
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KBear, you put it so much more succinctly than I did - made me snort my coffee.

Posted 1 year ago #
GenHillOne
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"Everyone is entitled to their own opinion, but not their own facts." Agreed, works both ways. That's how our justice system is always able to provide expert witnesses for both the prosecution and defense.

Posted 1 year ago #
JoB
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i wish having working feral cats in the neighborhood worked as a deterrent for rats...

my dogs (sort of japanese terriers) keep them out of the yard...
but they are also a deterrent to birds.

and the semi-feral neighborhood cats ..
someone puts food out for them .. and the neighborhood racoons...
are more interested in taunting the dogs than hunting down rats..
or mice for that matter..

nothing seems to keep the mice out of the engine compartment:(

Posted 1 year ago #
GenHillOne
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Maybe you should quit storing that imported Stilton on your engine block, JoB. I kid ;)

Posted 1 year ago #
Ken
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Slow and ill birds of all species have been culled by predators for millions of years. Humans and Chemical companies are not predators but are responsible for billions more bird deaths both individually and by species than all the predators combined.

As you can see, I don't accept the bird vs cat theory as either rational or plausible in this area. Chem trails have the same type of "research" extrapolation as viewed in the Longcore and Sullivan PDF linked above.

The feral cat TNR is one approach. The real problem is owners abandoning "problem" cats and that makes it a human problem. Seattle (especially WS) has the large predators and bad weather that combined limit feral cats viability over time and it has been a long time since this area has been considered a "wildlife refuge".

Posted 1 year ago #
lucky chick
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1. Domestic cats (and yes, feral cats ARE a domestic species) are not natural predators to our local wildlife. Our wildlife did not evolve with them.

2. "Slow and ill." That's funny. You watched too much Wild Kingdom as a kid. Cats destroy all species, and nests. "Slow and ill" (I'm still giggling at that) individuals don't survive to adulthood. 80% of fledglings don't survive in a GOOD year.

3. Just because there are greater impacts makes it okay to contribute to the problem? So I can dump used motor oil into the stormwater drain because BP dumped more?

4. You don't know what research is. I don't have 10 years to explain it, but the phrase "research extrapolation" (with research in quotes, no less!) just shows that you don't understand how reseach is conducted and presented.

5. Of course Seattle is not a wildlife refuge! The whole issue being addressed is wildlife conservation in urban areas! That remark has nothing to do with anything.

I knew I shouldn't have bothered, but I hope the original poster will consider the facts. Being knowledgeable on a subject doesn't matter on a blog, where everyone is free to think they speak knowledgeably. Thankfully, I get to leave the office now...

Posted 1 year ago #
casaboba
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Teacup,
Get rid of the bird-feeding husband. Get rid of the rats. Problem solved.

Posted 1 year ago #
sunset
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Feed hummingbirds instead of seed-eating birds.

Posted 1 year ago #
FreedomFromSnark
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Nah keep it up lucky chick...this one is actually kind of fun.

Posted 1 year ago #
JoB
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GenHillOne...

that doesn't even keep hubby out of my car :(

edit..

I had to come back.
i got this really strong visual of the pups trying to crawl under the hood to get at the stilton :(
i am not positive they don't know how to operate the release for the hood:(

you are unkind to make me worry so
;-0

Posted 1 year ago #
JoB
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sunset...

keep the husband if you are fond of him..

put a hanging catchment system for the spilled seed under your bird feeder...

Posted 1 year ago #
abstract
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I have one of those solar powered mole chaser things, that emits a sound to keep moles away. I am not sure if this is a coincidence, but I haven't seen a single rat in the yard since we got it. We also have several bird feeders that do attract squirrels, so I would imagine they would attract rats as well. We also have 2 terriers and the neighbor has cats, so I am sure that also plays a part.

Posted 1 year ago #
Ken
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Reassessment: A Closer Look at ‘Critical Assessment of Claims Regarding Management of Feral Cats by Trap-Neuter-Return’”

http://voxfelina.com/voxfelina/Vox_Felina_Reassessment.pdf

I may not be a scientist but I recognize unreasonable extrapolation when I see it.

I am a hard core Democrat but the crazy enviros equivalent of counting paperclips for their single issue passion drives me nuts. I have been attacked by PETA idiots in a carrot suit.

There are millions of square miles of bird habitat within 50 miles of WS. Cats, house hold or feral, can live in only a tiny fraction of that space.

Longcore and Sullivan make a living suing fellow Californians for environmental issues both real and imagined. They cherry picked like a fundy preacher and since it met your criteria and prejudice, it became instant gospel.

Posted 1 year ago #
amalia
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Uh, the "PETA idiots" are the ones releasing feral cats!! Biologists would gladly euthanize them and save them from cars and coyotes, but the PETA freaks assign their own values to them.
and DUH, voxfelina is an uninformed blog and Peter Wolf is PETA-type blogger with no education on the subject.
And final DUH, "There are millions of square miles of bird habitat within 50 miles of WS"? That's laughable for so many reasons.

Keep up the good fight, lucky chick!

Posted 1 year ago #
DP
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Cats are predators; that much we know.

They kill some birds and they kill some rats.

Any disagreement? [Crickets] Good.

What we realy need to know is whether your average hungry cat, given plenty of tasty rats and squirrels to choose from, would go after them and leave the birds alone.

Does anyone have a talking cat we can ask?

Posted 1 year ago #
JanS
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amalia...I am far from a "PETA" freak, yet I support TNR of feral cats..so where does that leave me?

Posted 1 year ago #
GenHillOne
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Yeahhhh, I'm pretty sure PETA's website is in direct conflict with what you just said, amalia. Was it a typo in your post? But I'm not a big fan of PETA's M.O. anyway. Fan of animals, not of some of their methodology. (Edit to add: I won't even link their feral page here because it's filled with all sorts of loaded words like butcher, slice, ritual sacrifice, mutilate, drown, gruesome - reckless scare tactics)
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Teacup, I'd be interested to hear if abstract's suggestion works. I know the spider-version works in our house. Maybe in conjunction with catcher JoB mentioned?

Posted 1 year ago #
amalia
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Well, then they ain't *all* bad afterall! But I did say "PETA-types," not PETA.

Posted 1 year ago #
anonyme
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Rats are everywhere in Seattle, and poison seems like a poor solution to me. The rats will either die inside your walls, or someone elses. There is also a danger that a pet will chew on a dead rat and ingest the poison.

I've heard that snap traps or Rat Zappers are the quickest, most "humane" method, but I'm just not into killing anything, rats included.

Nor am I convinced that feral cats are a good option. Keeping pet food and water outside is what attracts rats to begin with, and a well-fed cat is not likely to be a great ratter.

There are products on the market made of fox or coyote urine that claim to repel rodents. Application is difficult and must be kept up on schedule. This seemed like a wonderfully humane and non-toxic idea to me - until I started wondering how they got the urine from these animals....

Last summer I was inundated with rats, probably from a problem neighbor's house. They ate all my strawberries, and even tunneled into my cone composter. I got rid of the composter, as well as my bird feeder; haven't seen a rat since. However, I really miss the birds.

There just isn't a simple answer to this problem, and there will likely be a rat overpopulation problem as long as there is a human one.

Posted 1 year ago #
beachdrivegirl
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You need to get rid of the food source and kill them. They will continue to come unless you do both. The snap traps work the best. I definitely would not do poison because you could potentially kill other animals or be stuck with stinky rats in your walls/crawl space. Rats really have no purpose and are an extreme health risk. Also, they can cause extreme damage to your home if they find a way in.

Posted 1 year ago #
teacup
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Oh my West Seattlites, you never fail to provide help and the funnies. After this post, I think the husband caved and admitted we'd have to just rid of the birdseed.

And no, it wasn't the "get rid of the husband, get rid of the rats" comment.

(ha!)

Thanks all.

Posted 1 year ago #
casaboba
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I was close! ;-)

Posted 1 year ago #
GenHillOne
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God, we ARE a helpful bunch, aren't we, teacup? :P I still wonder about a rat/squirrel-resistant feeder combined with solar mole-chaser though. Believe it or not, I do like birds (AND cats and...) No problem at our house to test on, so if anyone tries it, please report!

Posted 1 year ago #
maude
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The only rat that I've seen in my yard was dead. I've been told if you have squirrels during the day, you have rats at night. We had one baby squirrel show up a few years ago. We have one bird feeder but we rarely remember to fill it so we don't have many birds, either. Besides, the dogs are too annoying for anything to spend much time in the yard.

Posted 1 year ago #
JoB
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maude..
the resident neighborhood outside cat chases the squirrels...
but i think it sleeps at night :(

Posted 1 year ago #
dbsea
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I've seen the rats, squirrels, racoons, possums, cats but no dogs (yard is fenced) in my yard. Had a rat in the garage one winter (what fun chasing it !) and one inside the gas grill when I went to fire it up. Why oh why couldn't the wife have found that one? You'd have heard it for MILES.

I don't think you can kill the rats without unintended victims. Besides, you'll never get them all. Maybe try and limit the food source/ source of attraction. But don't the rats just come around at night? And have you tried a "NO RATS ALLOWED" sign?

Posted 1 year ago #