Home › Forums › Open Discussion › Rats and Rats (to kill or not to kill)
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April 6, 2011 at 2:10 pm #598526
teacupMemberWe guilty have bird seed outside of our house to feed the lovely birds. This however has lent itself to rats coming around the birdseed.
Gross. My husband wants to set out traps to kill them, but of course this makes me *sad*.
Anyone know of any way to get rid of the rats without having to snap a trap on their body, starve them to death or do some other thing that will likely keep me up at night?
And yes, removing the bird seed was my first option, but my husband really likes to see the birds come to the window. He has no problem with getting rid of them, it’s me.
Anybody have insight? I’ve heard WS is chock full o’ rats.
April 6, 2011 at 2:30 pm #721834
WednesdayMemberShort of a pied piper, for a quick, clean kill I’d suggest a Rat Zapper which kills by electrocution. It costs about $40, but it works well. You can get it at McLendons.
April 6, 2011 at 2:36 pm #721835
KenParticipantEvery port city has rats. Kill them. The breeding cycle means they will outnumber humans quickly if the bold ones are not killed.
April 6, 2011 at 3:06 pm #721836
PDieterParticipantApril 6, 2011 at 3:25 pm #721837
furryfacesParticipantAdopt a couple of working cats (backyard ferals). They are good employees…a couple of meals each day; fresh water; a dry, safe place to sleep, and they will take care of your rat problem–naturally. If interested, please email furryfaces@hotmail.com and we can share more info on how to make this work, while keeping the birds safe. Plus, we can connect you with a couple of feral kitties. Cheers,F3
April 6, 2011 at 3:43 pm #721838
GenHillOneParticipantYep, I’m going to go with cats as well, but don’t know your specifics, so if you have coyotes roaming through your yard too, that may not be viable.
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BUT, here’s the bottom line. Your husband is insisting on keeping the food source. Whether it’s birdseed, foodscraps, or trash, he can keep killing rats for years to come and they will continue to migrate into the area for food unless the source is removed. Just “food for thought.”
April 6, 2011 at 3:59 pm #721839
lucky chickMemberPlease consider the negative impact of cats before you release them. You like the birds, right? Well, despite what the feral-cat advocates and their websites say, cats absolutely kill wildlife, including birds, and destroy nests. This is well-documented in the peer-reviewed literature (see some references below) and the denial by feral-cat advocates is completely unsupported by science. To quote Daniel Patrick Moynihan, “Everyone is entitled to their own opinion, but not their own facts.” If you’re just an animal rights activist, why would you value the cats’ lives over that of the rats anyway?
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By comparison, the 2 rat species you are seeing are non-native and don’t belong here, from an evolutionary perspective.
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Since people here will attack me, I’ll let you know that I’m a biologist who has been working on songbird population dynamics in developed landscapes for nearly 20 years. I don’t make things up. Wouldn’t know how to :).
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Current lit is reviewed here:
Longcore, T., C. Rich, and L. M. Sullivan. 2009. Critical assessment of claims regarding management of feral cats by trap–neuter–return. Conservation Biology 23(4):887-894
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and local literature samples here:
Marzluff, J.M., R. Bowman, and R. Donnelly, editors. 2001. Avian Conservation and Ecology in an Urbanizing World. Kluwar Academic Press, Norwell, MA. 585pp.
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Marzluff, J.M and K. Ewing. 2001. Restoration of fragmented landscapes for the conservation of birds: a general framework and specific recommendations for urbanizing landscapes. Restor. Ecol. 9:280-292.
April 6, 2011 at 3:59 pm #721840
KBearParticipantYeah, cats will take care of those pesky birds for you, too.
April 6, 2011 at 4:04 pm #721841
lucky chickMemberKBear, you put it so much more succinctly than I did – made me snort my coffee.
April 6, 2011 at 4:06 pm #721842
GenHillOneParticipant“Everyone is entitled to their own opinion, but not their own facts.” Agreed, works both ways. That’s how our justice system is always able to provide expert witnesses for both the prosecution and defense.
April 6, 2011 at 4:40 pm #721843
JoBParticipanti wish having working feral cats in the neighborhood worked as a deterrent for rats…
my dogs (sort of japanese terriers) keep them out of the yard…
but they are also a deterrent to birds.
and the semi-feral neighborhood cats ..
someone puts food out for them .. and the neighborhood racoons…
are more interested in taunting the dogs than hunting down rats..
or mice for that matter..
nothing seems to keep the mice out of the engine compartment:(
April 6, 2011 at 4:46 pm #721844
GenHillOneParticipantMaybe you should quit storing that imported Stilton on your engine block, JoB. I kid ;)
April 6, 2011 at 4:54 pm #721845
KenParticipantSlow and ill birds of all species have been culled by predators for millions of years. Humans and Chemical companies are not predators but are responsible for billions more bird deaths both individually and by species than all the predators combined.
As you can see, I don’t accept the bird vs cat theory as either rational or plausible in this area. Chem trails have the same type of “research” extrapolation as viewed in the Longcore and Sullivan PDF linked above.
The feral cat TNR is one approach. The real problem is owners abandoning “problem” cats and that makes it a human problem. Seattle (especially WS) has the large predators and bad weather that combined limit feral cats viability over time and it has been a long time since this area has been considered a “wildlife refuge”.
April 6, 2011 at 5:08 pm #721846
lucky chickMember1. Domestic cats (and yes, feral cats ARE a domestic species) are not natural predators to our local wildlife. Our wildlife did not evolve with them.
2. “Slow and ill.” That’s funny. You watched too much Wild Kingdom as a kid. Cats destroy all species, and nests. “Slow and ill” (I’m still giggling at that) individuals don’t survive to adulthood. 80% of fledglings don’t survive in a GOOD year.
3. Just because there are greater impacts makes it okay to contribute to the problem? So I can dump used motor oil into the stormwater drain because BP dumped more?
4. You don’t know what research is. I don’t have 10 years to explain it, but the phrase “research extrapolation” (with research in quotes, no less!) just shows that you don’t understand how reseach is conducted and presented.
5. Of course Seattle is not a wildlife refuge! The whole issue being addressed is wildlife conservation in urban areas! That remark has nothing to do with anything.
I knew I shouldn’t have bothered, but I hope the original poster will consider the facts. Being knowledgeable on a subject doesn’t matter on a blog, where everyone is free to think they speak knowledgeably. Thankfully, I get to leave the office now…
April 6, 2011 at 5:25 pm #721847
casabobaMemberApril 6, 2011 at 6:20 pm #721848
sunsetMemberFeed hummingbirds instead of seed-eating birds.
April 6, 2011 at 6:29 pm #721849
FreedomFromSnarkMemberNah keep it up lucky chick…this one is actually kind of fun.
April 6, 2011 at 6:54 pm #721850
JoBParticipantGenHillOne…
that doesn’t even keep hubby out of my car :(
edit..
I had to come back.
i got this really strong visual of the pups trying to crawl under the hood to get at the stilton :(
i am not positive they don’t know how to operate the release for the hood:(
you are unkind to make me worry so
;-0
April 6, 2011 at 6:56 pm #721851
JoBParticipantsunset…
keep the husband if you are fond of him..
put a hanging catchment system for the spilled seed under your bird feeder…
April 6, 2011 at 7:57 pm #721852
abstractParticipantI have one of those solar powered mole chaser things, that emits a sound to keep moles away. I am not sure if this is a coincidence, but I haven’t seen a single rat in the yard since we got it. We also have several bird feeders that do attract squirrels, so I would imagine they would attract rats as well. We also have 2 terriers and the neighbor has cats, so I am sure that also plays a part.
April 6, 2011 at 8:42 pm #721853
KenParticipantReassessment: A Closer Look at ‘Critical Assessment of Claims Regarding Management of Feral Cats by Trap-Neuter-Return’”
http://voxfelina.com/voxfelina/Vox_Felina_Reassessment.pdf
I may not be a scientist but I recognize unreasonable extrapolation when I see it.
I am a hard core Democrat but the crazy enviros equivalent of counting paperclips for their single issue passion drives me nuts. I have been attacked by PETA idiots in a carrot suit.
There are millions of square miles of bird habitat within 50 miles of WS. Cats, house hold or feral, can live in only a tiny fraction of that space.
Longcore and Sullivan make a living suing fellow Californians for environmental issues both real and imagined. They cherry picked like a fundy preacher and since it met your criteria and prejudice, it became instant gospel.
April 6, 2011 at 9:10 pm #721854
amaliaParticipantUh, the “PETA idiots” are the ones releasing feral cats!! Biologists would gladly euthanize them and save them from cars and coyotes, but the PETA freaks assign their own values to them.
and DUH, voxfelina is an uninformed blog and Peter Wolf is PETA-type blogger with no education on the subject.
And final DUH, “There are millions of square miles of bird habitat within 50 miles of WS”? That’s laughable for so many reasons.
Keep up the good fight, lucky chick!
April 6, 2011 at 9:27 pm #721855
DPMemberCats are predators; that much we know.
They kill some birds and they kill some rats.
Any disagreement? [Crickets] Good.
What we realy need to know is whether your average hungry cat, given plenty of tasty rats and squirrels to choose from, would go after them and leave the birds alone.
Does anyone have a talking cat we can ask?
April 6, 2011 at 9:29 pm #721856
JanSParticipantamalia…I am far from a “PETA” freak, yet I support TNR of feral cats..so where does that leave me?
April 6, 2011 at 9:34 pm #721857
GenHillOneParticipantYeahhhh, I’m pretty sure PETA’s website is in direct conflict with what you just said, amalia. Was it a typo in your post? But I’m not a big fan of PETA’s M.O. anyway. Fan of animals, not of some of their methodology. (Edit to add: I won’t even link their feral page here because it’s filled with all sorts of loaded words like butcher, slice, ritual sacrifice, mutilate, drown, gruesome – reckless scare tactics)
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Teacup, I’d be interested to hear if abstract’s suggestion works. I know the spider-version works in our house. Maybe in conjunction with catcher JoB mentioned?
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