Look at http://www.walkscore.com/WA/Seattle/West_Seattle
It's ok, if you live close to The Junction, Admiral Junction or Westwood Village but the rest of it is not pretty.
I got a Walgreens and a Pizza Hut in walking distance and that's it. I so hope we get some nice Retail into the High Point lot, next to the library!
I'm sure there is a bus stop in walking distance, which would then give you the luxury of visiting other retail stores, that could then become walkable.
"I got a Walgreens and a Pizza Hut in walking distance and that's it."
Nonsense. There is also a U-Haul and a scary mini mart.
Library! Le Salon Rouge for haircuts, a good dry cleaner. In better weather, the Morgan Junction is in walking distance too. And isn't there a coffee shop and laundromat near the U-Haul...I don't drink much coffee so haven't visited.
The sad fact is that most of our outer neighborhoods were developed or evolved with the automobile in mind. I would sure like to see Metro start creating a system of free neighborhood shuttles, which would encourage us to leave our cars at home more often.
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And yes Republicans, by "free" I mean paid for collectively, as a community, with our tax dollars.
Why? Because the benefits far outweigh the costs.
Why don't we just let some wily entrepreneur make their fortune off it?
Because it is one of those "natural monopolies," like electricity or sewer, where it doesn't make sense to have a bunch of competitors or a single, protected for-profit entity.
Open something. What do you want in your hood? Chances are other people do too. Neighborhoods are not made by "them", they are made by us. When I moved into my hood there were bars, pho shops, and porn stores that I cold walk to. Now there is a pizza place, a BBQ joint, a bakery, a coffee hose, a T shirt shop, my shop and soon to be a bar that I actually want to hangout in, in addition to all of the other stores that I love so much. Neighborhood stores are owned by people in the neighborhood. If they do not see a reason to open up something that they love, they neighborhood is not going to thrive. There are tons of grants and loans out there for people with good ideas. Not to say that owning your own business is for everyone, but if you really want to see a change in your hood, it is a good start.
If money is the only thing holding you back check out SCORE and SBA. If running your own business is not your thing, and trust me I know why you would think that, just start posting what you would like to see. If enough people see that you and others want X, someone will provide it.
I don't mean to sound harsh, but you are what makes your neighborhood. Starbucks is not going to move in until there is a local store that makes it that they can take over. If you want to see your neighborhood more walkable/livable, then go out and make it. Email me if you want help. It just takes a little bit of stupidity really.
Full Tilt...
great point!
but i agree with dawsonct
i would still like to see a free shuttle bus system..
we could start with one that just does the north/south trip on California.
One problem with opening one's own business in the area is that there are no more storefronts! I believe the above posts covered all the available store frontage in the area. Maybe when those new condos go up? But how $$ are those going to be and I am afraid only chains are going to be able to afford the rent.
villagegreen
Member Profile
Al - Exactly! One of the few things that really disappoints me about West Seattle is the lack of decentralized business districts/storefronts. I assume this is due to some antiquated zoning code that prevents someone from opening businesses in residential areas.
From what I know, West Seattle developed as a weekend get away area for Seattleites. All businesses were located on California Ave at the three junctions. Unfortunately, this is still the way it is. Only worse, there's no free trolley connecting all of them.
I've lived in other cities and it baffles me why West Seattle can't have more little business districts sprinkled throughout the area. Think how Ballard is layed out. There are little pockets of storefronts all over the place. WS is a huge area to have almost all businesses located along California. Great if you live near a junction, or if you live in the heart of White Center, but definitely not a walkable community for most residents.
villagegreen
go east
go south
there are little business districts scattered here and there..
and some of them are well worth the time it takes to find them
SJoy
Member Profile
I would much rather see more funding for our schools or less layoffs for city/state workers, maybe even more money for the SDOT to fill our nasty potholes than free shuttle service around West Seattle. There are buses if you need additional transportation.
I'm sorry I don't mean to sound rude or grumpy but with the economy the way it is... free shuttle service is probably really, really low on the list.
Also, I'm a life long West Seattle resident. I love our community just the way it is (ok, minus some of the traffic in the morning over the bridge). I really don't want stores in my residental neighborhood. More stores = more people/traffic and on our narrow residental streets, I just don't think it's a great idea. Most people can get to a bus stop with only a few blocks to walk.
@argiles - the 21 runs every 30min, but it only goes to 35th & Avalon or 35th & Barton - still a bunch of blocks away from the shopping.
The 128 also runs every 30min and can take you down to California & Morgan.... I find Thriftway too expensive for my daily shopping needs, but it's nice for special/certain stuff. And we do walk there sometimes in summer (or last winter, when the roads were iced over ;)
I do take the bus downtown every day - the 21 Express is great! But every 30min for the local route I find challenging. You have to bring a lot of time and not that many groceries, to make shopping with the bus work.
@Al, the Library is fantastic, I agree! But what I want on a daily basis is groceries and a few restaurants.
@FullTilt was just in your WhiteCenter shop with my daughter yesterday night :)
I think I have read too many books about opening restaurants. I have a computer job, I'm not cut out for this :p
But I'm glad that my Rant evolved into a constructive discussion and if anybody takes this up, they will have my full support!
Marco
westseattledood
Member Profile
The SHA has changed the Highpoint proposal which went through Design Review a couple of years ago. Retail is no longer on the plan, so it seems just 90 townhouses are currently proposed, without service or goods storefronts.
Thank TR for digging this up and letting folks know last week - SHA had not notified anybody about the change. Needless to say, Highpoint homeowners who bought into the development based on the promises of walkability and basic retail services are miffed.
http://westseattleblog.com/2010/12/new-development-proposal-for-just-cleaned-up-high-point-site
That site puts way too much emphasis on proximity to stores and doesn't take walking safety into account at all. There's no way that my old neighborhood, a neighborhood without any sidewalks unless you want to walk alongside Aurora, is walkable, and yet it gets an 81. Ditto Northgate. But hey, there are stores there so it must be walkable. Look at the deep green around Southcenter and you know how much of a joke much of this is.
Also, observe how some of the destination parks - Lincoln Park, Discovery Park, Seward Park - are a deep red. I'm sorry, but there's more to walkability than how many stores are nearby.
With all due respect, if walking to certain things (stores, shopping, restaurants, transportation, whatever) is important to a particular person, why move to an area that does not have what is wanted/needed?
Growing up in NYC, I did not have a car until I was in my mid 30s. I moved around quite a lot, and certain things were very important that I live within a reasonable (to me) walking distance - things like a laundromat, train or bus to work, supermarket. So when I looked for a place to live, those things were priority and I would not move unless I had what I needed in the vicinity.
When I first moved to Washington, I was looking for places north of Seattle, and the apartment complexes I looked at totally depended on whether I could easily get to an express bus to downtown for work. When I moved to West Seattle, I originally lived on Delridge. I lived less than a mile from Westwood Village, and could walk there with a cart for groceries, and I had the bus to get to work. I knew the bus routes for getting to the Junctions if I needed something else. Now I live 1/2 mile from Alaska Junction, live across the street from the bus I need for work, and can easily walk to what I need, even though I now have a car and don't need it as much.
And I agree that a free shuttle isn't going to be happening anytime soon.
I agree with JoB that there are little neighborhood pockets of commerce. But the 35th/Morgan/High Point area, in spite of it's very rapid population increase is not one of them. And the closest area, Morgan Junction, is quite a hike via foot, especially with kids in tow during the winter. Ever walked up Morgan with a full bag or two of groceries? I have the suspicion that there may have been more storefronts in the past but they were likely torn out for newer construction over time.
There was a day when all the neighborhoods here in West Seattle had "Little Stores" that were walking distance from your home. They carried anything you may need to complete a meal. Get milk a newspaper and penny candy for kids' after school stop. But higher taxes. higher property costs. and safety issues of being a target for crime, these "Little Stores" could not sustain themselves and closed one by one.
austin
Member Profile
There's already a free shuttle in West Seattle, it just has funny hours and probably doesn't go where you want.
villagegreen
Member Profile
JoB - I've been east and I've been south. I know what West Seattle has to offer like the back of my hand. That's one of my obsessions - exploring the neighborhoods and surrounding businesses. Sure there are some businesses along Delridge - love Skylark and Pho Aroma. Love what's happening in White Center as well (although, as of yet, WC is not West Seattle). I still wish there were more of these 'neighborhood' business districts, instead of almost everything being concentrated on 2 or 3 roads. Portland would be a good example of what I'm talking about.
Don't get me wrong, I love West Seattle. I just sometimes wish everytime I told someone where I was headed it didn't always start out, "I'm heading up to California..."
I agree with Sue. If walkability is important to you, then move to an area where you can walk to the things you need.
Seattle just does not have the population density to support services everywhere. I lived in NYC where the density is much higher and there were still areas that didn't have all the services I needed within walking distance.
Genesee Hill
Member Profile
Yeah, bebecat, I remember all those neat little neighborhood grocery stores back in the 50s. Some of them even had a mini butcher shop that had a meat grinder for ground beef. And the penny packets of Lik'm Aid. And the nickel bottles of Coke.
When Joe Fitzgibbon came to my door last summer I made the shuttle suggestion to him. I don't care if it's free or not, just as long as we have one. Taking the bus downtown from here is faster than getting to most destinations within West Seattle. I live in Arbor Heights and work northeast of Delridge. It's a ten minute drive to where I work. On Metro, I have to take a minimum of 2 and sometimes 3 buses to get to work, with travel time (if timing is perfect) at 45 minutes, 1 1/2 hours if it isn't. Remember the push to live and work in the same neighborhood? In my case it's actually a hindrance. Not only would it be nice to have more small retail pockets, but a shuttle that circumnavigates West Seattle, hitting the retail areas, is really needed - even more so now that existing bus service is so heavily impacted by the SODO construction.
We've got the "fried Chicken" store in HP!
Exactly anonyme, when I was working on Alki, if I couldn't catch the once an hour (weekdays ONLY) 51, it takes a transfer at Admiral, which works fine if the 55 isn't late or the 53(?) isn't early. It was okay when the water taxi shuttle ran during the day, and I appreciated not needing to transfer, but still ridiculous that it would take me 50 minutes to get to Alki and take such a meandering route.
If I missed my bus at night and didn't want to spend 7$ for a pint of beer at the Swell, I could walk home faster than waiting on the next bus. Sometimes after a night of cooking, walking uphill for three miles simply wasn't as fun as it sounds.
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I like Metro, and do use our bus system whenever feasible, but it is so downtown-centric, that it is almost impossible to use it for errands. Good luck going E.-W. in the city.
I agree that we have a LOT of the commons that needs to be taken care of before we add to it in many ways, but transit provides a HUGE number of hidden benefits that FAR outweigh it's cost, which is WHY we invest in it as a community in the first place. It is a statistical fact that most of our car trips rarely exceed a few miles at any one time. If we can cut a percentage of those unnecessary vehicle trips, it benefits us all.
A bike-share program would be very beneficial as well, but something a little more structured than the pink bikes. Maybe a program like they have in Paris, London, or Montreal.
Any petroleum we Americans DON'T use, is a benefit for ALL Americans.
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I think the demise of the small, family-run neighborhood grocery had more to do with the advent of supermarkets and National-chain convenience stores (not to mention the automobile) with their purchasing power, than with taxes and rent.
dawsonct...
"I think the demise of the small, family-run neighborhood grocery had more to do with the advent of supermarkets and National-chain convenience stores (not to mention the automobile) with their purchasing power, than with taxes and rent. "
you hit the nail on the head.
Al...
you can't expect a little neighborhood pocket to provide everything.. after all a small mom and pop can't compete with a chain grocery on price... they have to compete on service and/or specialty items with a few essentials thrown in if you are lucky..
I spent part of my youth helping my parents run one of those small groceries in an isolated low rent area and i can tell you that the profit margins on the old mom and pop weren't so wonderful even decades ago... even when the big chain supermarket was an hour's drive away..
most people shopped once or twice a month in town and used the local store only for last minute purchases.
The profit engine for our store was the gas pump out front and the soda pop and ice cream impulse buys.
When full tilt took a leap of faith and opened in White Center.. he was pretty much alone for the kind of product/service he was offering. But his success brought other businesses to the area.
if you want your pocket neighborhood commercial district to grow and add other services..
spend some time and money there...
I actually used Walkscore to gauge where we should buy our house. I was determined not to live more than a mile from coffee shops and groceries, and we managed to achieve that. We looked at a house next to High Point (not officially High Point development but adjacent) that we just LOVED, but ultimately passed because there was nothing to walk to. Our agent told us at the time (this was three years ago) that there were plans to add retail to High Point, but it appears that hasn't happened. It wasn't looking very promising even back then.
I do understand how you feel. Prices were a lot more expensive right next to the Junction so we compromised by being a few blocks away, and it's kind of a hike up a hill to get there, but it's walkable.
I'd love to see something in Arbor Heights. West Seattle may be a peninsula, but AH is the lost peninsula of West Seattle. There's a location on 100th just off 35th that would be perfect for a coffee shop/mini-specialty grocery. I've had lots of ideas for that space, but money and age are in my way.
miws
Member Profile
anonyme, Is that the Nichol's(sp?) Market space, on the south side of 100th?
I lived at 102nd & 33rd throughout my high school years, and a couple years beyond, (late '73/early'74-April'78).
I seem to recall the place still being open under the Nichol's name, (although it may have been a different owner keeping the name) as recently as maybe 8-10 years ago.
Mike
Here is a little bit of good news: http://westseattleblog.com/2011/01/west-seattle-coffee-stand-in-the-works-at-high-points-hans-vw
Mike, I think that space is still technically occupied, but it's very, very sketchy. I stopped going years ago as it was never open, and when it was, there was almost nothing inside to buy. Very dirty also, and filled with cigarette smoke. It almost seems like a front for something else...?
miws
Member Profile
Thanks, anonyme.
How things change....
Mike
For those interested in the shuttle notion, you might be interested in the current work on updating the city's Transit Master Plan: http://seattletransitblog.com/2011/01/12/transit-master-plan-progresses-looking-at-trips/
"Seattle’s transit system is oriented toward moving people to and from downtown at rush hour—”a fraction” of all trips in Seattle. Reorienting the system to serve more people outside downtown might be more efficient". Let your councilmembers know what you need.
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