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RANT-Wash. State Ferry System

Started 9 months ago by LisaH
Latest reply from JoB

LisaH
Member Profile

I was taking my Mother and Son on our first ferry trip in over a decade. We were running late due to the traffic mess downtown. The lady at the fare booth was both rude and impatient with me. When going to what I thought was the proper lane for entering, a WSF employee screamed at me to stop and wait my turn. I apologized saying I wasn't sure where to go & that I wasn't trying to cut and he yelled at me saying I was lying and knew exactly what I was doing. Even on our return trip we were treated with little respect and much hostility! I was both appalled and embarrassed. I hope this isn't the normal treatment Wash. State Ferry employees show everyone!

Posted 9 months ago #
datamuse
Member Profile

I haven't had ferry employees be rude, but I gotta agree that it is not at all clear which lane goes where at the Fauntleroy terminal--unless, presumably, you use it all the time and just know. My husband and I almost wound up going to Vashon the other night, instead of Southworth as we intended. Fortunately, we had a nicer person directing traffic than you did.

Posted 9 months ago #
Zenguy
Member Profile

There are rules for posting a rant and they require that you give the people a chance to address your concerns be posting a bad experience.

Posted 9 months ago #
angelescrest
Member Profile

LisaH,
You didn't indicate if it was Fauntleroy, but I will say that without the State Troopers directing traffic, it's a bit of a goofy mess, that is probably trying the patience and nerves of both employess and travellers. Not an excuse; perhaps an explanation.

Posted 9 months ago #
maplesyrup
Member Profile

My guess is Lisa was at the downtown terminal.

I've never had the cashier be rude but I've seen what can happen when people don't fall into line. And yeah, they're not forgiving at all.

Posted 9 months ago #
Carla Marie
Member Profile

Lisa:
I'm sorry you were treated that way Lisa. I've seen all spectrums of the ferry worker personality. Some are very kind and some wish they were never born. It was out of line for that person to yell at you and call you a liar.

Zenguy:
If you're not going to post about the subject, why do you feel the need to be a net nanny? It's not very zen-like. WSB pays their own people for that. Find a better hobby.

Posted 9 months ago #
kootchman
Member Profile

Uh....Zenguy.. how ya gonna seek resolution? If ya make 140K a year to load cars and collect tolls,,,, yor should be smiling all dy long..hey if you are too stressed to be polite and courteous...find new job..The "person" is in the middle of a traffic issue with a state employee who is angry... this is the same ferry system where a loader smeared a breakfast "egg sandwich" (while in state ferry uniform") on the VASHON run... because someone was taking pictures of his reckless driving.. and then, AT the ferry terminal on WA Ferry Property, tried to get the guy to come out of his car and have a fist fight... last month! KING 5 covered it in great detail.. including the videos.. sometimes you can't address it ... it's too dangerous. I WOULD call the Wa Ferry System and make a formal complaint though.... KIng 5 would LOVE to cover another incident... I think he got a week off (with pay) as punishment....

http://www.king5.com/news/local/Food-Fight-Road-Rage-123419189.html

Oh yea... we love the system. How about the DOUBLE TIME pay they get..if a seasick passenger throws-up? "Vomit Pay" .... public unions... immune from having to observe the niceties..

Posted 9 months ago #
Jiggers
Member Profile

First of all, I don't believe that--that employee screamed. That's a big word. Yelled too? The booth lady was rude on top of it all WoW! That's like hitting the tri-fecta. Sounds sensationalized or they were all waiting for you. I ride the ferry over to Winslow a few times a month and have never have encountered a screaming employee or witness rude behavior by WSF employees.

Posted 9 months ago #
kootchman
Member Profile

Well Jiggers....perceptions count... and if ya don't think it is systemic and typical...

http://www.king5.com/home/Not-first-outburst-for-enraged-ferry-worker-123669419.html

This is a multiple offender... protected by the union.... If I pay your salary.... yea.. I do have the reasonable expectation of receiving polite treatment... Jiggers... you are a lucky man... I generally don't get that treatment either...but it happens.. my PU which I commute frequently with was 6" over length.. first time in 4 years .. on the way back from Bainbridge..toll booth drone measures the truck with a tape... (extended cab, long bed) I had a full tank of gas and enough cash to get back... told him I was sorry, didn't know it was too long.. ( I mean after 4 years...it was never an issue) ... what did that friendly ferry worker do? Made me pull over, miss the ferry, catch a later one... and I quote "this is a lesson...bring more money next time"... or drive around.

Follow the links... ahh to be 30 years younger... sometimes an a-- Whuppin is a good thing... God this would be too funny if this was a third time, same guy...incident. They do seem to like to yell at women and small stature guys though.

Posted 9 months ago #
pigeonmom
Member Profile

Uh.... kootchman.. where do you get your information?

” If ya make 140K a year to load cars and collect tolls,,,,”
Really now? I collect tolls and make nowhere near that figure nor do my partners on the car deck.

Way to perpetuate FALSE perceptions, dude.

Posted 9 months ago #
DBP
Member Profile

pigeonmom: I'm late on my yacht payment. Think you could spot me ten grand until the first of the month?

C'mon! I know you've got the dough . . .

Posted 9 months ago #
kootchman
Member Profile

example one:

http://www.nwcn.com/home/Investigators-Broke-ferry-system-paying-huge-salaries-to-fortunate-few-92839669.html

or this

"The miles added up. He earned $60,423 in wages in 2009. His travel reimbursement for the year was more: $72,950. That brought his total compensation to $133,374 in 2009."

or this one is particularly entertaining...

"Investigators: Warnings of paycheck padding ignored by state ferries

try:

http://mynorthwest.com/?nid=11&sid=295045

there is no shortage of waste and fraud in the ferry system... just
"google" WA ferry system fraud, waste, abuse.. pick you sources.."vomit pay" is a faorite..imagine a state hospital worker demanding double time pay.. and GETTING it...for cleaning up after a sick patient vomits in the waiting room... yep.. thats our ferry system... corrupt to the core

Posted 9 months ago #
kootchman
Member Profile

you must be the only one not scamming the system....or this one....caught after a customer complaint...and this was ONE day worth of receipts ..... who knows how long she was stealing?

Ferry worker faces toll theft charge

http://www.pnwlocalnews.com/whidbey/swr/news/21591479.html

And the HONEST workers? See how they are treated...

http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/localnews/2002602005_webferriestrial03.html

BUT... "we" pay anyway....

Last week, a federal jury awarded Ken Marable $2.8 million in a whistleblower lawsuit against Washington State after finding that Marable’s supervisors retaliated against him for complaining about paycheck padding and misuse of department fund

"All government employees should realize that the process of collective bargaining, as usually understood, cannot be transplanted to the public service."

That ain't Ronald Reagan talking... that's FDR himself...the Democrat "Great One"... And the original post was dead on...and I see no comment on the merits of that set of behaviors eh? ferry workers can be rude and arrogant in the extreme... they would be fired in the private sector in a second for treating customers in such a manner...imagine, the stupidity.. in a state uniform..instigating a fist fight ... bty the woman who complained about the first incident..??? A newspaper reporter !! Imagine that.

Posted 9 months ago #
pigeonmom
Member Profile

I didn't say there wasn't corruption.

You just told thousands of readers that I am overpaid
and I'm calling you out on that.

Posted 9 months ago #
JanS
Member Profile

kootchman...if you repeat a lie often enough, people believe it. I know pigeonmom, and she speaks the truth. Those examples? a handful, as opposed to the hundreds and hundreds that are honest hardworking people for the ferry system. You have some nerve saying they're all corrupt. You can't back that up, and slander is a vicious thing (or is that libel...I always get those confused). You always thing you're right, no matter what..well, you're not. I'd take her word over yours any day.

More people need to call you out on your BS..

Posted 9 months ago #
DBP
Member Profile

kootchman's right that there's systemic waste in the ferry system. The links he posted support that claim.

He's wrong to imply that all ferry employees are grossly overpaid. In fact, one of his links suggests just the opposite. ("ferry system paying huge salaries to FORTUNATE FEW")

Anyway, what do overtime payments for WSF engineers have to do with a couple of allegedly rude ferry workers at the Colman Dock? I don't get the connection there.

kootchman, you little stinker . . . if you want to criticize the ferry system, or government unions, why don't you just start another topic? I'll play ball with you.

Posted 9 months ago #
JoB
Member Profile

DBP..
Kootch is too busy picking cherries to notice the tree.

Posted 9 months ago #
kootchman
Member Profile

I also posted the reasons these things DO happen... is the relative security the ferry workers/system have to be as obnoxious as they please. This is covered over by their death grip over the terms of their employment. One article stated "fortunate few"... we need every worker to scam the system to admit a problem? The PVA report, admitted customer service was a "cultural" shortfall.. see items 35, 36... and that was as gentle a state self audit could make it....Did ya read the part where I said generally I don't receive that treatment either? It's gottahappen everyday to every customer to be considered a "truism"? Asked to document..at random I did. If your employee, wearing your company provided uniform, went out in the general public and started to smear an Egg McMuffin on a customers car, and when the customer arrived at your place of business...your employee then proceeded to challenge your customer to a fist fight on your property.... would you send him home for a week WITH pay? WSF did. If a customer with three little kids in tow, used a trash receptacle YOU provided for trash, was a aggressively approached, twice confronted, by a lazy employee who doesn't like to do his job...one of which is emptying trash..and tries to forcibly stuff it in your customers car.... would you ignore it, make no record of it, have no disciplinary actions whatsoever? WSF did. Context folks.. view it in context. Talk about focusing on the cherries and not the tree! Are they all overpaid.. Dunno..but be not surprised if you encounter a surly, rude, agressive, WSF employee..or ones that do steal rip off the taxpayer with scams.. they are not the norm, but they are not unusual either. If yo receive 5 bucks and hour and that is the way you behave and your union runs to your defense... you are being paid 5 bucks too much.

Posted 9 months ago #
kootchman
Member Profile

This is a "deckhand"... in the parlance of "state speak" "engineer" is a relative term...in the WSF system an unlicensed mate is an "unlicensed engineer"... sorta like your bank teller... Under Vice President of Customer relations.... Sorta like "Operating Engineers".. a nebulus title with no "engineering" degree... it helps in contract negotiations.

"A deckhand working for Washington State Ferries had a yearly salary of $60,000, but he ended up getting $73,000 in travel expenses last year" ( Not 140K...but close!)

That deckhand loads cars.... 133K a year for an relatively unskilled deck hand? Yea... he/she should smile everyday in every way...

Posted 9 months ago #
JanS
Member Profile

and that was one person out of the whole ferry system. It doesn't mean that they all do it...give it a rest, big guy. You can't win this one. You don't always have all the answers. Yours doesn't have to be the be all end all. This coming from a salesman - lolololol..talk about dishonest people ! But we don't tar you all, do we?

Posted 9 months ago #
DBP
Member Profile

Frankly, I hope guy who smeared the Egg McMuffin on the windshield is gone. That stuff's prolly harder to get off your car than seagull dookie. Sheesh!

Come to think of it, maybe the guy's diet was to blame for his attitude problem. D'ya think?

Posted 9 months ago #
JoB
Member Profile

Kootch..

want me to tell you my you wouldn't believe that salesman stories? You know.. the ones about how they really see the customer they are glad-handing?

I worked in Sales. I did "hard" time all the way from the sales floor to GM in auto sales... not to mention a season pass through heating and cooling systems and a tour through office machines... a stint in RV's and a pass through boats. Heck.. i even taught sales for a while :)

oh.. and i know it's obvious.. but i was a woman on the receiving end of that sexism stuff that permeates some of your posts.

some people should never live in glass houses...

Posted 9 months ago #
Ken
Member Profile

Those of you who have lived here all your life forget one of the most noticeable and bizarre "features" of Seattle.
The signage is what we ignore to get around the region.
If you tried to follow the signs downtown directing you to the ferry (either the downtown or to the Fauntleroy docks)You would be either in Renton or Burien before you knew it. If you don't guess right on I 90 you're soon driving around Mercer Island trying to find your way to Bellevue or at least back to the interstate. And how do you get from 99 in Georgetown to WS? Not by following the signs that's for sure. High traffic and construction multiply the crazy. If you have never seen a "lane closed" or "construction ahead" sign that has fallen into the hole that starts immediately behind the sign, then you have not lived in Seattle long. The ferry docks are their own special crazy for the uninitiated. Everyone else knows the unwritten (and unsigned) rules and gets in the correct lane long before there is a sign. And the ferry signage has actually improved in the 20 years I have been driving the region.

My first trip to West Seattle was when I was trying to get to the airport from downtown while 99 was under heavy construction and I could not get out of the "turn only" lane by the time I could see the sign.

Posted 9 months ago #
LisaH
Member Profile

Ken
Thanks for getting back on topic. It WAS downtown and that WAS why I was running late. The man DID scream (and yell) at me. On a lighter note, the young man working the counter at the late show at the Admiral last night was a sweetheart. His kindness and upbeat attitude really stood out after the unhappy weekend I've had.

Posted 9 months ago #
LisaH
Member Profile

Zenguy,
I contacted the W.S.F.S. as soon as I got home.
I explained the whole situation in an email (being the only way I could communicate with them)
So, yes, I am trying to give them the opportunity to respond.
Unfortunately, I still haven't heard back yet.

Posted 9 months ago #
kootchman
Member Profile

Like I said.. and no one answered... just HOW MANY corrupt ferry workers qualifies a system as flawed? HOW MANY assaults, rude behaviors, and verbal assaults are tolerable? You asked for examples... you got them...and still..snarky, snarky, snarky...i guess some peoples levels of tolerance for government malfeasance is much higher. If you read the posts JaN at least three examples.three different people..not ONE example...how many do you want? Oh, that's right, you can't get the records..even with the sunshine laws..protected data by work rules contracts. Good thing Seattle Times has the lawyers..or we would never hear squat... Citizen Mushrooms, kept in the dark and fed horses--t. . I did not say ALL ferry workers... read the first post..DID YOU NOT READ WHERE I SAID RARELY...no? but it does happen.. is happening.. and that is fact. Just where in this thread JoB do you see "sexism"? I actually believe LisaH...and I hope she get her complaint resolved... but I bet it never happens.. BTY Pigeonmom.. the worker was identified BY NAME... it not a fictitious imagining... and since you work for the Ferry System... I assume you read the PVS follow up report on worker conduct? It was one of the highlighted corrective actions to be taken... in fact.. some restricting of collective bargaining was also in the scope of the report relating to conduct of public employees...

Posted 9 months ago #
JanS
Member Profile

how many corrupt salesmen qualify a system as flawed? Same as ferry workers, I'm guessing...

three examples? How many ferry workers are there? What is the ratio of flawed worker reports to total employment...1%? 2? you tell me.

Snarky is a snarky does...you don't always have to have the last word and be right on everything, do you, no matter what? just askin'..:)

have a great week !

Posted 9 months ago #
DBP
Member Profile

Q: Just HOW MANY corrupt ferry workers qualifies a system as flawed?

A: A hundred. Ninety-nine to hold light bulbs and one to screw everything up.

***************************************************************************************

kootch: You don't ask a rhetorical question like that and then huffily demand that it be answered. Because there IS no answer. Do you have one? If so, then by all means, quit holding out on us!

Technically, if even ONE worker was "corrupt" (whatever that means in this context) then the system would be "flawed" -- n'est-ce pas? Because if something ain't perfect, then by definition, it's flawed. Right?

But for the sake of argument, let's just say that a corruption rate of 25% of workers and/or 10% of management = A CORRUPT SYSTEM.

What of it? The issue here is whether a couple of WSF workers were rude, not whether they – or the system they work for – are corrupt. And the original poster didn't even go that far. All she alleged was that two employees were rude to HER.

OK, so you wanted to chime in with the corruption thing. And along with all that other stuff about salaries, overtime, etc., you identified a couple of other well-documented cases of rudeness by a WSF worker at another location. OK, I'll buy that. A WSF worker somewhere else was extremely rude and got only a slap on the wrist. But what does that fact prove, by itself? –That ALL ferry workers are rude? That the SYSTEM ITSELF is rude? Ha, ha, ha.

How many ferry workers are there around Western Washington anyway? Hundreds? Thousands?

According to you, the state ferry system is rotten to the core. Everyone's overpaid. Everyone's rude. By implication, everyone needs to have their wages lowered or get sacked . . .

That's just way too extreme, dude. Look, nobody is denying your claim that there is SOME corruption and SOME waste at WSF. But frankly, I think pigeonmom was right to take umbrage at your broad implication that ALL WSF workers, including her, are unworthy of their salaries.

Please don't tell me that her reaction surprises you . . .

Posted 9 months ago #
JanS
Member Profile

DBP..well, said !

Posted 9 months ago #
JoB
Member Profile

DBP

i doubt i could have said that as well myself :)

Posted 9 months ago #
JoB
Member Profile

LisaH

we all have bad days...
it's hot out there.. and our ferry workers are in that heat all day
it's tourist season

now.. i agree that's no real excuse for rudeness
but hubby and i took one look at the line on the Fauntleroy ferry yesterday and decided that the state parks south of DesMoine looked pretty good..

had a great day!

Posted 9 months ago #
Jiggers
Member Profile

I'm heading back over to Bainbridge Island next weekend on the rude ferry system. The wild blackberries are coming out now yummy. Go camping and collect them for breakfast fresh off the bush.

Posted 9 months ago #
kootchman
Member Profile

Yea.. show me where I said "every" worker was rotten to the core and corrupt? The state finally admitted it has problems. Of course it took a little heat from the press before Gregoire responded...lacking that, it would have been business as usual. The "flaw" is the protections and shielding and cover provided by behavior standards unacceptable to the most casual observer. Double pay for having to clean up after seasick passengers? Good heavens..they work on a marine vessel... we going to extend that to every public employee? Sick kids at schools, libraries, health clinics, metro, Amtrak, Headstart classrooms.., ? That is payroll padding and that affects a whole lot of ferry workers. Mr. Egg McMuffin in his first offense...? No record of any action..no response to the complainant...no entry in his employment record... only when caught on camera..THEN something happens. Makes ya wonder ... or at least , seeing the number of random hits on a "wild card" search... just how many complaints just got "tossed".. I am guessing most. The history section on the Wikepedia article is telling... see exactly why we have a state ferry system...especially the Black Ball line debacle... yea... the system is out of control... in fact, even Democrats are trying to reform the pork laden perks... a rarity for Democrats who never met a union they didn't love. I think it is bad? So do a substantial number of WA State legislators.. they were so embarassed... well here... read it yourself....then tell it is isn't systemic.. Remember it was unions who broke Black Ball... but they found a savior... the taxing authority of the state... the endless pork barrel. Sometimes the indefensible is just that. What are the fares now?

http://sdc.wa.gov/issues/transportation/Ferries/ferries.asp

Posted 9 months ago #
JanS
Member Profile

you've made your point

Posted 9 months ago #
redblack
Member Profile

yeah. god forbid someone who deals with the public and faces getting run over on a daily basis makes 6 figures a year and has good benefits - and - oh noes!!1! you're paying for it! those jobs should be done by illegal immigrants or college kids for about $10 per hour, am i right, kootch? or is that too much pay?

and, uhh, kootch? how many corrupt insurance company employees does it take to make for a corrupt system? bankers?

lisa: i rode the ferry all last week. if the ticket seller doesn't explain to you which lane you should be in, it's his/her fault. (sorry, pigeonmom.) especially at colman dock, which has two slips and serves two routes, and where loading patterns change constantly.

in ferry workers' defense, though, i see people blatantly ignore their orders pretty much every day. i can understand a certain level of frustration - probably a high level - but yelling at passengers isn't the way to address it.

it's like being a flagger. people are going to ignore you, spit at you, blame you for them being late, and sometimes they'll put you in danger. the rule is to not put yourself in a position where they can kill you (if possible), be polite, smile, wave, and say, "thank you." it works like a charm.

Posted 9 months ago #
Ken
Member Profile

How republicans define middle class:

"When I see a first-class individual who makes $80,000 a year, he's lower middle class. When I see someone who is making anywhere from $300,000 to $750,000 a year, that's middle class. When I see anyone above that, that's upper middle class."
--Rep. Fred Heineman (R-NC), explaining that his yearly income of $180,000 leaves him short of middle-class status

Oh and by the way, as someone who has worked in the corporate world, 99% of sales and marketing depend on misdirection, low information and outright lying.

When the sales droids had run into a non gullible, non ignorant potential customer, I would get called in to save the account with truth, pragmatism and a realistic ROI and if the product was either not suited to task, unavailable within time frame or actually did not exist except as a sales managers misunderstanding of the tech, I would cut the mark loose with a referral to someone who could do what he needed.

Sales people are required to think short term and selfishly. The commission system pretty much requires it. That's why most are low info Independents or out right teabaggers.

It is a broad brush but it is the paint I have personally witnessed for 40 years.

Posted 9 months ago #
kootchman
Member Profile

Posted 9 months ago #
maplesyrup
Member Profile

Ken just like I wouldn't categorize all ferry workers as corrupt system-abusers, I wouldn't categorize sales people in the way you just have.

In both cases it's insulting to the honest people who do those jobs.

I'm sorry that you worked for a low-class organization that had to rely on shady sales techniques and was full of short-term, selfish and uninformed people. Does the fact that you worked there also say something about you? Careful.

Posted 9 months ago #
kootchman
Member Profile

Funny thing...I have been selling for forty years... it is the largest single occupation in the country.... that's a lot of folks to tarnish. Most of my clients and I have shared 20 year histories. Neither of us would stay in business with deceptive business practices. What I do find is... in sales... sales reps and companies find their common denominator.. good companies hire good representatives to secure their business. Now here is a thought....NO ONE would have a job in any industry... if a sales transaction didn't take place... longevity is all about ethics and truthful representation.it;s too hard to find good customers to put it at risk for "a" commission check.. in the same industry serving the same customer base, that's the way to sustain a business... I have seen many come, and many go... and it doesn't take too long for the winnowing process to occur. I bought at least 6 vehicles from a local car dealer..they changed their practices... the ethics of the founder wasn't transferred to successive genrations... where is Huling Bros. now? ... ferry string has run dry.... good luck...hope to hear how it was resolved... Jan..one last one for ya... disciplinary report stats? Like internal police cases... shielded by union contract... you can't ask cause they have a don't tell policy... or did.

Posted 9 months ago #
JoB
Member Profile

kootchman...

unions are the reason most people have a 5 day 40 hour work week. unions are the reason people used to have sick leave and other benefits like health insurance and pensions.

when talk like yours started busting unions... the pensions of people who had worked their entire lives for that deferred compensation were busted with it.

the 40 hour work week is now mainly a myth and employers not only expect you to work weekends, they expect you to work after-hours off the clock without pay.

Unions are not the problem
They are the solution

Posted 8 months ago #
JoB
Member Profile

Kootch.. an afterthought

according to you
if a ferry worker is rude it's because they are protected by a union

if a salesman is rude
is that because they think they can't make the sale?

As a middle aged lady, i can tell you that the sales forces of America ignore us old broads all of the time.. we might as well be invisible even when we stand in front of them with cash in hand.

so what's their excuse?
they don't have unions to blame.

Posted 8 months ago #

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