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1. lyw101
   Member Profile

   The Icebox
   It stings to the thought of touch. Is owned by or better yet possessed by one-time now divorced/dissolution married women over the age of 35 living in west Seattle. Each work day they take their children to school, and then drive to have coffee and sit alone. Alone they sit on weekends too, scan their cell phones looking to see a call that does not come and or text other lonely disillusioned friends and family. They have lots of friends, the kids, and tell you with their eyes and lips that they have no free time for such frivolity. They refuse to accept conversation or the thought associated with a chance meeting, a random lunch date or even a cocktail after work. So wounded are they that the thought of a man or a single father even being interested in them is for whatever reason hurtful and demeaning. Who is that man to think or impose that he is remotely at her level of being, or success? This is Seattle and we have our standards. You must meet those levels of excellence and achievement or you are not worth a conversation, let alone a relationship. It is a sad state of affairs or the lack of them we have in this supposedly friendly town of West Seattle. What we have is a rain soaked and love deprived set of individuals with no hope of redemption unless they choose to take a step and connect.

   Posted 1 year ago #         

2. JoB
   Member Profile

   lyw101..

   This is an unusual monday morning. You are the second poster this morning to cause me to stop and ponder... now where did this come from?... what does it mean?... who does this relate to?

   I can only say that all ice boxes contemplated from the outside miss the rich mystery of the contents... and that we all desire more that which we can not have while passing that which we can without so much as a second look.

   Posted 1 year ago #         

3. thee
   Member Profile

   

   Can someone make me a sammich?

   Posted 1 year ago #         

4. JoB
   Member Profile

   thee...

   only if you can open the ice box :)

   Posted 1 year ago #         

5. GenHillOne
   Member Profile

   Bitter much? At least you changed the title of your thread, but even with out the reference to female anatomy, I'd say that what you're experiencing is a common reaction to douchebaggery.

   Posted 1 year ago #         

6. JoB
   Member Profile

   GenHillOne...

   LOL...so this once had a more illuminating title ?

   and here i was thinking that this was pretty provocative for a first post...

   all in the eye of the beholder i guess ;->

   Posted 1 year ago #         

7. JanS
   Member Profile

   

   sounds like someone had a lousy weekend. Maybe the ice box is filled to the brim with goodies, but sometimes one simply wants something that just isn't there.

   Posted 1 year ago #         

8. WSB
   Member Profile

   

   This has been flagged (as was the earlier version).

   On surface, I think it also violates our rules re: sexism - generalizing about people based on gender.

   But it's not a clear attack. More a wistful musing. Still ... a sexist wistful musing is as sexist as sexist invective.

   Thoughts, before I just arbitrarily hit "delete" without consultation, as we do in more obvious cases?

   Posted 1 year ago #         

9. herongrrrl
   Member Profile

   Whenever I hear anyone complaining that no one (of whatever gender) will worship them the way they feel is appropriate, I think of this:

   http://despair.com/dysfunction.html

   Posted 1 year ago #         

10. JoB
    Member Profile

    WSB...

    i thought it had more to say about the poster than about the possible object of his unrequited interest.

    but.. as always.. it's your call.

    Posted 1 year ago #         

11. MargL
    Member Profile

    Hrm - I think this would be better posted as an ad or commentary in "The Stranger"...

    And... here's an example of friendly West Seattle
    http://westseattleblog.com/forum/topic/anyone-want-to-go-bowling Go Bowling! :-)

    Posted 1 year ago #         

12. Ken
    Member Profile

    

    Unrequited drive by?

    Love is the triumph of imagination over intelligence.
    -- H. L. Mencken

    Posted 1 year ago #         

13. Ken
    Member Profile

    

    Love is a snowmobile racing across the tundra and then suddenly it flips over, pinning you underneath. At night, the ice weasels come.
    -- Matt Groening (1954 - ), "Life in Hell"

    Posted 1 year ago #         

14. DP
    Member Profile

    

    Still ... a sexist wistful musing is as sexist as sexist invective

    Please don't delete this post, Tracy. It will have a chilling effect and diminish the value of the Blog for everyone.

    Posted 1 year ago #         

15. datamuse
    Member Profile

    

    I'm fascinated how lyw101 knows so much about the internal lives of women that (presumably) he has not even managed to hold a conversation with. How does he do it? If I were that psychic I'd never have a confused student again.

    (Protip: just because a woman is out in public alone does not mean she owes you a conversation, a smile, a greeting, or even the time of day. Maybe she just wants to drink her damn coffee in peace.)

    Posted 1 year ago #         

16. Genesee Hill
    Member Profile

    

    I am certain the desribed situation is not unique to West Seattle.

    Posted 1 year ago #         

17. JanS
    Member Profile

    

    and the first thing I thought? Typical...looked at the contents of the ice box, didn't want all that was offered there, wants something that doesn't exist. Maybe he needs to order delivery ;-)

    Posted 1 year ago #         

18. metrognome
    Member Profile

    seems the season for these types of musings (i.e. why am I single ...) starts with the spate of holidays at the end of the year when one may feel like a fifth wheel at family dinners, work parties, etc. Valentine's Day just accelerates the musing and the onset of spring doesn't do much to damp the feelings.

    There have been a number of articles with similar themes in papers around the country, altho the responsibility for one's or a group's singlehood varies with each writer. This HuffPo article includes links to some of the articles about single women in NY:

    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/brienne-walsh/an-open-letter-to-the-wom_b_829378.html

    my favorite quote:

    "Our conversation eventually -- and inevitably -- led us to the topic of why she never married, and to illustrate the point, she told me a story. "When I was younger," she said, "I was dating a man who told me: 'You're extraordinarily smart, and you're extraordinarily beautiful. You need a man who is either so strong that he can stand up to you, or so weak that you can walk all over him. I'm just a normal man. I'm not the man for you.'"

    [20 years later, they met again, and she asked him why he had married his wife. "She made good sandwiches," he said.]"

    Posted 1 year ago #         

19. datamuse
    Member Profile

    

    I just saw that this morning, metrognome. I haven't gotten all the way through it yet but, even though I'm married, I found myself nodding along with quite a lot of it.

    It did make me sad, though, that the author seems to think that expecting nothing, or expecting a fairytale are the only options.

    Posted 1 year ago #         

20. MargL
    Member Profile

    We're _assuming_ lyw101 is male! "lyw" could stand for something else and this is just social commentary on what they've seen happening at coffee shops, we just don't know!

    Posted 1 year ago #         

21. JoB
    Member Profile

    datamuse...

    i watched a lame movie last night with one good line when it comes to what we should expect from out partners...

    to paraphrase...

    expect everything.. you won't get it... but if you don't expect it you won't get anything.

    Posted 1 year ago #         

22. flowerpetal
    Member Profile

    

    My first thought was this is a well written post and that the poster is literately gifted. But it does feel sexist nonetheless and left me feeling yucchy. Seems irrelevant if the poster is male/female. But then again, "douchebaggery" offends me as sexist.
    I believe it is delete-able TR.

    Posted 1 year ago #         

23. GenHillOne
    Member Profile

    I apologize, flowerpetal, it's not my favorite either, but in some cases it feels appropriate. And in this case, I was referencing the original title of this thread that was completely vulgar and gave a lot of insight into the intent. And (imho) it was far more distasteful than douchebaggery. I know, two wrongs don't make a right and all...but I wouldn't call it gifted.

    Posted 1 year ago #         

24. SarahScoot
    Member Profile

    

    Agreed with GHO - sorry, the poster is not "literately [sic] gifted" by most standards. I had to read the post several times to understand the writer's point. It reads like a 13-year-old's attempt at poetry following rejection by a crush.
    I'm not necessarily offended by the content, but I am definitely offended by the "style" and grammar.

    Posted 1 year ago #         

25. MargL
    Member Profile

    "Whether 'tis nobler in the mind to suffer
    The slings and arrows of outrageous fortune,
    Or to take arms against a sea of troubles,
    And by opposing end them."

    ;-)

    Posted 1 year ago #         

26. datamuse
    Member Profile

    

    MargL, considering the fate of the individual who said that, I don't think I'd be looking to him for advice.

    Frankly, while I did make a presumption (and said so, right there in my post), the last fella who struck up a conversation with me in a coffee shop turned rather icebox-ish himself when he learned that I was married. So much for conversation.

    Posted 1 year ago #         

27. Zenguy
    Member Profile

    

    Most know I am up for a good debate, but this does seen rather sexist (as I have seen this kind of behavior from both sexes) and just plain seems bitchy. Try counseling, work on your socialization skills or pick more approachable people.

    Posted 1 year ago #         

28. lyw101
    Member Profile

    The first response:
    Such passion for a topic, I would have never guessed that within 6 hours it would touch so many.
    Second, I would like to say thank you to the editors (WSB aka TR) of this forum for allowing a posting such as this. Public discussion is important where ever the thoughts are written or spoken. To those who are offended (JanS, herongrrrl, datamuse), is it possible that the topic is a little too close to the truth? To “touch a nerve” that returns the negative is almost always the indicator of truth. Anyway, self reflection is a good thing. Bravo, to those who reached into their heart for a deeper connection (JoB, DP, flowerpetal, SarahScoot). You have a soul and are not so common a being. For those who went on the attack (GenHillOne), you have once again confirmed the passive-aggressive nature that is “sooo Seattle”. Thank you for sharing and for bringing a serious topic a little fresh air.

    Posted 1 year ago #         

29. datamuse
    Member Profile

    

    I'm not offended, lyw101. I'm from the east coast. ;)

    Posted 1 year ago #         

30. JanS
    Member Profile

    

    for the record..I am not offended. I actually found the post amusing...it sounded like someone who didn't make it to first base and was crying in his beer...or...looked over what was in the ice box but didn't like what was offered there, was longing for something that didn't exist. I will say, in all seriousness.... become friends with someone. Friendships are invaluable...and sometimes those friendships grow into more than that. And, look inward first, before coming down on what you think is a problem to be blamed on someone else.

    Geez...I'm 64..I don't offend easily - lol...

    Posted 1 year ago #         

31. lyw101
    Member Profile

    JanS and Datamuse, thank you for not truly being offended, nothing I write is meant to be taken that way. All of the advice from those who have written, I take well and respect. At 50, being someone who is raising an 8 year old daughter alone since her mother of 39 passed away a year ago has made the ability to date complicated and frustating. Seems to be a lot of "rules to meeting/dating" here in Seattle, after living in NYC, Dallas, Nashville, Portland, the Big Sky, the Sunshine, and Buckeye states. The people I run into are aloof and complicated to approach. Oh well....good luck.

    Posted 1 year ago #         

32. JoB
    Member Profile

    lyw101...

    "To “touch a nerve” that returns the negative is almost always the indicator of truth."

    but what nerve? what truth?

    people read their own experience into any written piece
    my experience tells me it isn't always what the writer intended.

    i was serious when stated to TR that i thought you put the voice more on display than the woman you describe.

    who is the real icebox?
    the woman who does not respond
    or the pursuer who does not recognize rejection?

    are the stated reasons hers?
    or those of the nameless and pretty much sexless voice?

    Does the window of the voice encompass her universe or simply random moments of time...

    are they a couple
    or a couple or more of women?

    so many ambiguities
    so much possible mystery

    or.. as Jans posits..
    just another guy crying in his beer about his inability to connect

    Posted 1 year ago #         

33. Zenguy
    Member Profile

    

    I have lived in many places (mostly in the last year) and have had conversations with people almost everywhere working in the customer service field. Try to find something in common or some reason for striking up a conversation. I do it all the time in line at a store and on the phone with customers...wow, I used to live in Florida too, I miss the palm trees, wow, your birthday is a couple of days from mine and bam you are in.

    Posted 1 year ago #         

34. lyw101
    Member Profile

    So many ambiguities, so much possible mystery, so perfectly true. Thank you.

    Posted 1 year ago #         

35. Genesee Hill
    Member Profile

    

    lyw101:

    I enjoyed your original post. I commented that your feelings are not unique to West Seattle.

    Honestly, i think age may have something to do with it. I would sure be scared to enter the dating scene at 50 plus. Heck, I was scared at 25 years old. But, the hormones are a little different at a young age, in my very humble opinion. I think you can get shot down, and just keep on truckin' when you are young.

    Posted 1 year ago #         

36. GenHillOne
    Member Profile

    Hardly passive-aggressive, but nice try. If you note, I said I thought the previous title (which I'm not sure anyone here saw) was telling. Meaning if that's your mindset, I don't see why any self-respecting, self-confident woman would have any reason to give you the time of day. If that's not your type, then you're golden.

    Posted 1 year ago #         

37. Zenguy
    Member Profile

    

    I usually agree with you WSB, even when the mistake is mine. This time I think you have errored, sexism is sexism, however wistful or clever.

    Posted 1 year ago #         

38. lyw101
    Member Profile

    Gennesee Hill, thank you for the genuine and kind words. Very well spoken and taken.

    As for you GenHillOne, the original post title was a poor choice of words borrowed from a famous play. I thought better of the decision quickly, but not quick enough. It did get the attention of the audience I am playing too (not with). It also was successful in drawning out those that are angry and combative which was not the intention either. As far as being "golden", who knows there, I try and would truly like to be part of something again. At least my frustration and the voice used brought on an unexpected amount of attention......

    Posted 1 year ago #         

39. Zenguy
    Member Profile

    

    I can appreciate the challenges of dating later in life. My mother is doing it in an environment unfamiliar to her. Please try to keep the positive side in your sights, think the best of people...yes, there is a certain percentage of the population that you can never reach and they are not worth it. There is someone out there for everyone!

    Posted 1 year ago #         

40. hollyplace
    Member Profile

    

    Lyw101, have you checked out meetup.com? It is a great way to meet other people in your local area. Put in your zipcode and lots of different kinds of groups come up. Parenting, hiking, dating, kids, sports, single parents, photography. Name an interest and there is probably a group in the seattle area that would be happy to have you. If there isn't quite what you are loOking for you can start your own group and invite other like minded people to join. Good luck.

    Posted 1 year ago #         

41. lyw101
    Member Profile

    Thanks Zenguy and hollyplace for the affirmations, very much appreciated. I am still very amazed that the original post on this subject received so many comments and opinions. Just flat amazing. There is hope and I will leave you with this: There is no saving you from yourself, if there was we would all be doing it. In addition, we do not have control of our future, but what we have are choices to make and most of those are based on just bullsh*t and luck…!

    Posted 1 year ago #         

42. renaissancered
    Member Profile

    

    We all get shot down or given the cold shoulder in life....it's all part of the show. Men and women are equally aloof...sometimes we're just deep in thought or trying to have a rare peaceful moment. Or maybe just taken aback that someone is actually trying to converse w/ us. If a woman can't engage even in some small talk why would you want to get to know that person anyway?

    It's good to vent but also don't take one encounter set the tone.

    Posted 1 year ago #         

43. JoB
    Member Profile

    lwy101

    "At least my frustration and the voice used brought on an unexpected amount of attention...... "

    unfortunately what brought the most attention was the rampant sexism in your post :(

    attention to your subject mostly followed your additional posts...

    btw.. i have to add that if you really believe that the only thing driving your decisions is misinformation and luck...
    you are doomed to repeat your mistakes indefinitely :(

    still.. i will look forward to your next post.

    Posted 1 year ago #         

44. WSresj
    Member Profile

    This is a complicated one. Maybe the woman you're referring to is stressed out because of family/work, etc obligations and just wanted some alone time. Maybe she's had a bad experience and is afraid. In general, PNW folks are alot chillier than may other parts of the country. I think there are way more introverts here or plain defensive people. There are plenty of friendly folks, but in the balance people are more "walled off" than environs to the south.

    Posted 1 year ago #         

45. JoB
    Member Profile

    WSresj..

    I have thought a lot about the Seattle reputation for aloofness... "introverts here or plain defensive people" ... and i think that what is often mistaken for aloofness or indifference is an unwillingness to intrude on others.

    the popularity of this forum alone disputes the idea that people in West Seattle in particular and Seattle in general
    (let's leave the Pacific Northwest out of this because that includes Idaho for pete's sake)
    are introverts.

    I think they are just people like any other people... a lot more honest than some.. a lot less willing to offend than many... but just people.

    If you go about your day with a smile it's amazing how many people smile back...

    Posted 1 year ago #         

46. WSresj
    Member Profile

    I have found fewer people around here smile back than in the SE and SW. I can't speak for all of Idaho, but Boise is friendlier.

    Posted 1 year ago #         

47. JoB
    Member Profile

    and i would add for those lurkers out there...

    you should not ever assume that a smile or response to a conversational gambit by a member of the opposite sex is an invitation to anything other than friendly conversation.

    that assumption is what makes a lot of women very wary of casual conversations.

    What ever happened to spending time getting to know a person before attempting ask them for a date .. or worse yet.. to hook up?

    Strange as it may seem.. i know both men and women who are flattered by an invite from someone who takes the time to get to know them.

    Arm candy is so last century...
    at least.. it should be.

    Posted 1 year ago #         

48. lyw101
    Member Profile

    WSresj, a very sad but true observation of the state of mind in the PNW. Wish I was only commenting about one person or occurance. I am unfortunately speaking of many observed or that I have attempted to engage with out success. Since finding mutual attraction in the past had been effortless your thoughts bring light to the chill. Thanks....

    Oh JoB, you are so much fun. "Rampant sexism" was not intentional, just pointing the current state of things as seen from one man's perspective. I am quite sure from the content of your communication back that you are most likely one of those exibiting the behavior I have described. If not, then you must prove me wrong...

    Posted 1 year ago #         

49. lyw101
    Member Profile

    Boise is much, much friendlier.....

    Posted 1 year ago #         

50. JoB
    Member Profile

    WSrej...

    unfortunately, a smile isn't always an indicator of friendliness... a smile can be as large a wall as a frown.

    One thing i have noticed here is that if people smile back at you they are at least acknowledging you.

    That isn't the case everywhere.

    I'm not saying that people in Boise aren't genuinely friendly...
    i've met some really nice people there...
    but have never spent enough time to form an opinion about how easily they actually welcome you into their lives.

    i have spent plenty of time in places where a returned smile was a social reflex that could more accurately be interpreted as "i see you.. now get the h... out of my way".

    And where "that's interesting" was not the compliment or conversational invitation it is here in the Pacific Northwest.

    so maybe you don't get that warm fuzzy feeling like everyone is interested when you walk into a public gathering here...
    but you can also be pretty sure they aren't smiling in anticipation of the entertainment you will unwittingly provide ...

    I have made some great friends in my short time here in West Seattle...
    many of whom i expect to last a lifetime...
    and i owe it all to the opportunity this forum has provided to get to know people before I actually met them.

    Posted 1 year ago #         

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