WSB Forum » West Seattle Rants & Raves

(64 posts)

RANT - real estate broker Laura Miller, Catalyst Commercial Partners

  • Started 2 years ago by cjboffoli
  • Latest reply from livingonthebeach

  1. I've contributed a lot of images to the West Seattle Blog since my first one in 2007. Though many of those photographs were paid assignments from the editors, the vast majority of the images I have contributed have been produced without compensation simply as a public service for WSB readers and because I believe in what Patrick and Tracy have built from whole cloth.

    For every fire, car wreck, water rescue and police action that I've gone out to in the wee hours of morning (usually in the cold and wet), there are dozens of instances that have turned out to be nothing. No photograph. No story. Shooting hard news for the WSB is often interesting and challenging. But in comparison to my paid work for magazines and for fine art images it can sometimes be a tough slog.

    As anyone who puts their images on the web will discover, the Internet has made it easy to steal copyrighted material. From time to time I have discovered some of my images that had been downloaded from the WSB and reposted to other sites. In most cases these were just individual bloggers who were probably just a bit thoughtless. I'd usually send a polite request that they take down the image and they generally comply. No harm, no foul.

    But something happened recently that was quite different. While doing some research on commercial properties for sale in West Seattle I stumbled upon one of my photographs being used in a six-figure commercial real estate listing. The image had appeared on the WSB shortly before the business had closed and been listed for sale. Five months had elapsed since I stumbled upon the image which I assumed had been in use all that time. My photograph had apparently been downloaded from the West Seattle Blog story and re-posted to the listing. No one had ever contacted me to ask for my permission to use the image. Much more odious was the fact that they had posted a copyright "flag" on top of my image and were representing it as their own.

    I immediately sent an e-mail to both the listing agent, Laura Miller of Catalyst Commercial Partners, and to the webmaster for the website where my image was listed. The webmaster responded almost immediately with a polite apology and removed the image from the site within 24 hours. She told me that the listing agent, Ms. Miller, was responsible for uploading the image to the listing and had knowingly ticked a box verifying that she had permission to upload the image. She pledged to follow-up with Ms. Miller regarding the violation.

    Despite my attempts to contact Laura Miller about this matter she has chosen to simply ignore the situation. She apparently seems to think that mistakes (including decisions of questionable ethics and legality) can simply be ignored. I probably only ever expected a simple apology from her. But feeling cheeky from her failure to take responsibility I mailed her an invoice for the comparable value of the image she had used without permission. Unsurprisingly, she ignored that too. I've seen her name on big-time commercial real estate listings all over Seattle so I'm guessing she's either too busy to deal with me or perhaps has some sort of philosophical problem with Title 17 USC (the US Copyright law that protects copyright holders from having their work appropriated by commercial interests).

    Stealing copyrighted material off of the Net for your own financial gain is clearly not as dramatic as smashing a car window and stealing a bunch of someone else's property to sell or pawn. But I'd argue that they are akin to one another. What incentive do artists have to create if their work can be commoditized for the financial gain of others with no recourse or responsibility? Why should some commercial clients pay me for my images when others can just take my images for free and use their value for their own profit?

    I have never met Ms. Miller personally and have never had any business dealings with her. However, I wanted to post my experience as a caveat for others in the community who may cross paths with her.

    Posted 2 years ago #         
  2. Many people mistakenly believe the Internet is their own personal clip-art and stock photo gallery. I hope you're able to disabuse Ms. Miller of that notion and get some compensation.

    Posted 2 years ago #         
  3. I have always felt that using another person's work should only be allowed if no financial gain can be had. In my case of writing a blog about beer it is often difficult when the work done is not for profit and yet I still take the time to at least notify the owner that I would like to use their image. In most cases if its time critical a simple link back is often my practice.
    I am saddened though that someone would upload material as their own. My condolences on the headache you have had regarding this "small" matter.
    Cheers

    Posted 2 years ago #         
  4. Look at the bright side: At least they didn't link to the image on the WSB server :p

    http://www.shapelessmass.com/index.html/?p=578

    Posted 2 years ago #         
  5. Your rant is well writ. I would not let this slide. If your invoice is not paid within a reasonable period of time (30 days) I would send a formal final notice. If still unpaid, Small Claims Court is an appropriate venue for further action.

    Posted 2 years ago #         
  6. Thanks for the words of support everyone.

    Diana: You may be interested to read about a case that saw the inside of a Federal Court in Florida last year:

    http://bit.ly/2IXgw

    The merits are almost exactly the same. In that case a real estate company used a bunch of photographs without permission and the photographer sued. The court not only awarded the photographer a judgment for the copyright infringement but also tacked on statutory damages that were based on a percentage of the value of the real estate being listed. The verdict was in the neighborhood of $12 million!

    Posted 2 years ago #         
  7. GenHillOne
    Member Profile

    That's a lot of bacon :)

    Good luck with resolution!

    Posted 2 years ago #         
  8. Yes, good luck on this Christopher.

    GHO, I was thinking similarly, that if Christopher pursues this and reaps a big award, he'd be buying bacon for everyone! ;-)

    Mike

    Posted 2 years ago #         
  9. Photographer Les Kelly has been pursuing this type of stuff for years.

    http://adland.tv/content/short-chat-leslie-kelly-about-copyrights

    Posted 2 years ago #         
  10. I have had a couple of my images taken off web sites that have permission to use them and then used on ebay listings. I stand behind you Christopher and this real estate company should definitely pay you and than some for using it without permission.

    Jim Clark

    Posted 2 years ago #         
  11. B-squared
    Member Profile

    B-squared

    Best of luck, Christopher. i admit that i am surprised that a real estate agent would not try to "nip this in the bud" quickly as positive word-of mouth is an important aspect of the realty world. and it is typically quite easy to find the credits for the photos seen on WSB. karma-time!

    Posted 2 years ago #         
  12. B-squared: I'm surprised too. It would have been so easy to apologize and to be responsible. By ignoring my e-mails and the invoice I mailed her this woman has made the situation that much worse. The smarter business decision would have been to take responsibility and have the situation resolved definitively. But there seems to be a certain degree of arrogance on display here that's really disappointing.

    Posted 2 years ago #         
  13. i hope you pursue this... it isn't just unethical.. it's stealing.

    Posted 2 years ago #         
  14. TheHouse
    Member Profile

    TheHouse

    Stop being a baby about the situation. You state on one hand that if someone removes your pic there is "no harm, no foul" and then gripe about an apology after the Webmaster took the photo down (mind you he complied with your request).

    This sounds like an innocent mistake similar to what you describe in the beginning of your RANT.

    I'd drop it and move on.

    Posted 2 years ago #         
  15. GenHillOne
    Member Profile

    Yes, the webmaster complied quickly - rave, but the webmaster isn't the one who knowingly clicked the box stating she had permission to upload the photo (for business purposes at that) when she didn't - rant. You just can't do that. At worst, it's illegal and at best, it's lying. It should be enforced when possible.

    Posted 2 years ago #         
  16. In my mind the distinction is between a blogger who grabs the image and uses it without personal gain and a commercial real estate agent who uses the value of the image for profit and knowingly falsifies a copyright notice. Both acts are wrong but it becomes an issue of the degree.

    The webmaster at the CBA site acted professionally and responsibly. The real estate agent (who must pass an ethics test in order to be licensed by the State of Washington to sell property) has avoided responsibility and has acted unprofessionally.

    Posted 2 years ago #         
  17. perhaps you should send her a letter cc'd to your atty that unless she contacts you to make restitution you will report her ethics violation to the real estate board.

    the theft of intellectual property is no small matter... these days i would bet more Americans earn their living creating code.. or pictures.. or words.. or... than by old fashioned manufacturing.

    If intellectual property rights aren't enforced here.. we don't stand a chance of having them enforced globally...

    my guess is that your pic is not the only one that has been appropriated...

    it is one thing to give permission to use an image or phrase...

    and another entirely to find your content elsewhere without attribution.

    Posted 2 years ago #         
  18. He's not being a baby about it. This is his livelihood. Falsifying a trademark is NOT an innocent mistake.

    If this type of theft is allowed to slide, the more it will happen.

    Posted 2 years ago #         
  19. The other side effect her unprofessionalism has caused is a cached account of this forum dialog in Google that will appear if anyone searches for her name and business.

    Posted 2 years ago #         
  20. colleenharr
    Member Profile

    Good for you! I agree about the idea that she's using the photo for the gain. And the in ability to be a grown up when getting caught makes it even worse.

    Yes, people do use the internet as their own personal photo gallery. Reminds me of photo issue ABC had with their GH Night Shift Show--they had a prop photo used in a series of shots, which you can only imagine some intern found on the internet, of a 5 year old boy--turns out the boy had been murdered a few years prior and the photos had been from an article about that. They figured it out when a family member had been watching the show, saw the photo, and complained.

    Posted 2 years ago #         
  21. Irukandji
    Member Profile

    Irukandji

    Christopher, I wish you the best in your pursuit here.

    I've had the opportunity to communicate with you in the past regarding the use of your photos, and you were forthcoming and reasonable regarding their use. It sounds like you are stuck dealing with a woman both immature and selfish. I'd be happy to track down recommendations for an excellent attorney for you should you choose to go that route.

    Posted 2 years ago #         
  22. Jeannie
    Member Profile

    Your actions are entirely justified, Christopher. Best of luck in pursuing a satisfactory outcome. And thanks for all the great photos you provide for the blog!

    Posted 2 years ago #         
  23. Thanks for the words of support everyone.

    Irukandji: I actually already have excellent lawyers on retainer. But I'll probably not make a big Federal case and seek statutory damages. A small claims action is probably sufficient to get my point across and to enforce my copyright.

    Posted 2 years ago #         
  24. Seattle Babs
    Member Profile

    Contact the NWMLS, she may get a hefty fine for using your pictures. NWMLS 425.820.9200

    Posted 2 years ago #         
  25. Christopher,

    I was just taking a look at the Catylast website. Have you considered contacting the founder/owner of Catalyst. His contact information is there for all to see on their web site.

    It would be interesting to see what sort of response you might receive. After all, she is tainting the reputation of his company. Perhaps you have already been down that road?

    Consider the following two bullet items taken directly from their mission and values page:

    + We adhere to the highest ethical standards, conducting our business with the utmost honesty and integrity.

    + We consistently treat our clients and our colleagues with honesty, courtesy and respect.

    Granted, pretty typical corporate speak, but most embarrassing when you are caught with your pants down. Or perhaps I should say "panties" in this case.

    I would continue to pursue this even if you don't get any money. Knowing you, I don't think it is about the money.

    Just this woman's obvious arrogance and lack of professionalism would be enough to keep me on her trail. You are probably not her first or last victim.

    Please keep us posted on the saga!

    Posted 2 years ago #         
  26. Just a quick follow-up.... I'm delighted to report that I received today the payment in full for the court judgment against Laura Miller of Catalyst Commercial Partners. She used every one of her 30 days to pay it.

    And ever the gracious professional, she felt the need to write a couple of colorful things on the check. Stay classy Laura Miller.

    It is unfortunate that she still seems to have a problem being responsible for her mistake. But I hope that this experience, as documented here on the WSB and elsewhere in the press, with be an instructive lesson for business interests who think they can steal creative works with impunity.

    Posted 2 years ago #         
  27. at least we all know who not to hire, huh...she has a ding in her reputation in these parts, for sure. Thanks for the update.

    Posted 2 years ago #         
  28. cjboffoli..

    i must have missed the part where you got a judgement.. but good for you!

    and thanks for letting us know how it turned out.

    Posted 2 years ago #         
  29. Glad that's finally over, Christopher! Too funny thought about the "colorful" comments on the check. Makes it all the more pleasurable to cash it, no doubt! :)

    Posted 2 years ago #         
  30. Funny how a name can stick in your brain when out and about.
    The past couple of weeks I've been out window-shopping for commercial space of my own in West Seattle. And when I saw a place with her name listed as the agent I decided not to bother.
    Thanks for the heads-up Christopher.

    Posted 2 years ago #         
  31. Sue: Exactly. Ms. Miller's monetary atonement is going to buy a lot of tasty Swinery bacon!

    Erik: I can't say I ever paid much notice to commercial real estate before this situation but it seems as though her name is everywhere in West Seattle these days. Since my story hit the press I've been approached by real estate agents who have related their own stories of their unfortunate experiences with Laura Miller.

    Anyway, I hope you find a great commercial space and that whatever you plan to put in it is a huge success!

    Posted 2 years ago #         
  32. For anybody else who missed it, the story about Christopher's judgment was in the main news section last month:
    http://westseattleblog.com/blog/?p=19784
    and received a fair amount of play/linkage around the Web/twittersphere/etc.

    We offered Ms. Miller the chance to comment and she declined, as noted in the story.

    Posted 2 years ago #         
  33. Glad this has finally come to a conclusion for you Christopher.

    It's not only pathetic that she never owned up to her "mistake", but that she has continued to act in such and immature, and unprofessional manner.

    If it truly *had* been an honest mistake, for example if she was new to the business, or at least new to using the internet in conjunction with such a business, and was like, "wow, I *really* didn't know", and paid right up on the damages, and make a very public apology, truly atoning for her actions, I could see the *possibility* of wanting to do business with her, should I need those services. But, considering how this situation has transpired, if I actually *were* in need of that type of service, I *definitely* would not go through her.

    Actually, I'd even likely refrain from doing business with Catalyst altogether. It's one thing to tarnish your own name professionally, but to tarnish the reputation of the company you work for, and possibly in some potential clients eyes the other agents within that company, is another thing altogether.

    If I were the owner/manager of Catalyst, I'd seriously consider whether or not I wanted to continue to have her in my employ.

    And, *as if* those colorful words would even get under your skin, Christopher.

    You're gonna be laughing all the way to the Swinery! ;-)

    Mike

    Posted 2 years ago #         
  34. bacon party @ Christopher's !!! YAY !!!!

    Posted 2 years ago #         
  35. Mike: Well said. Ignoring all opportunities to be responsible and apologize was her biggest mistake (after the actual uploading of the image to a third party and representing it as her own).

    But even giving her the benefit of the doubt and accepting her excuse that they "get images for free all the time and don't know where they come from" I have to wonder this: If you were going to choose a real estate agent with which to list the multi-million dollar sale of your building, would you be comfortable with a real estate agent who is so cavalier about the marketing images used with the listing? I'm not a real estate agent but I've seen a lot of listings. And to my eye good photographs are one of the most vital parts of any professional presentation of a property for sale. I would want an agent who put some thought and some budget into presenting the property in the best possible light, not someone who is content with grabbing random images off the web. Ya know?

    Posted 2 years ago #         
  36. exactly. And, if you peruse the Catalyst website and look at the VERY high fees they charge per sq ft for rentals, it's no wonder you see their sign on a lot of vacant spaces. Boggles my mind how landlords would rather let a place sit vacant month after month after month, rather than reduce the rates a bit to encourage a new business. SOME rent has to be better than none, right??

    - Congrats on your award and willingness to NOT just let some use your work.

    Posted 2 years ago #         
  37. I was looking through CL and came across this ad. You would think that once someone was made to pay $1000 for image theft, they would learn. Nope.
    http://seattle.craigslist.org/see/bfs/1759556996.html

    Posted 2 years ago #         
  38. timeslid
    Member Profile

    timeslid

    "Getty Images" across the top gives a notion of legitimacy, but if you purchase the image the "Getty" is not on the purchased image. Giving credit without compensation is still theft. Or, maybe the image was purchased and the comp image was used in error.

    We know that the image is most likely not an image of the property since it is a stock image. If it is a stock image, why would you broadcast this to your prospective clients?

    Posted 2 years ago #         
  39. christopherboffoli
    Member Profile

    Considering that Laura Miller wrote "jackass" in parentheses after my name on the check for damages that the court ordered her to pay me (not to mention also writing "scam" in the memo line) it is clear that she has no interest in abiding by copyright law. :-)

    There is no copyright flag on legally purchased Getty Images. Again, it seems she has simply grabbed an image off the web and illegally reposted it. Personally, if I were trying to sell or lease an expensive piece of real estate I'd hire a commercial real estate agent who would invest a bit more time and effort in the listing than simply grabbing images off the web.

    As with my case, what makes her practices even more odious is the fact that the purloined Getty image has a CBA copyright flag on the lower right, meaning that Miller apparently once again clicked a disclaimer statement, fraudulently asserting she had ownership rights to the image.

    Someone really needs to take her to Federal court and let her pay REAL damages ($150,000 and up). Maybe then she'll get the point.

    Posted 2 years ago #         
  40. GenHillOne
    Member Profile

    Are you KIDDING me? Who's the real jackass in this? Getty should definitely give her a call.

    Posted 2 years ago #         
  41. She is also the listed agent for the new Safeway, needless to say, buyer beware!!

    Posted 2 years ago #         
  42. Just spoke to Getty Images. They were very interested in her site.

    Posted 2 years ago #         
  43. christopherboffoli
    Member Profile

    Carson: I've seen her name on listings all over West Seattle! She seems to be a popular commercial agent around these parts. I hope she's better to her clients than the unfortunate photographers that she apparently seems to constantly be exploiting.

    Getty Images is clearly much better capitalized than I am. And I expect they might be even more aggressive about protecting their copyrights.

    Justin: Thanks! Someone needs to stop that woman.
    PS: That coffee Oreo I had the other night was amazing!

    Posted 2 years ago #         
  44. christopherboffoli
    Member Profile


    Posted 2 years ago #         
  45. westseattledood
    Member Profile

    westseattledood

    There's no picture on the CL ad as of two minutes ago.

    Posted 2 years ago #         
  46. I totally missed the thread the first time it was posted. Whats amazing, and it's no knock on you Chris, but how hard is it to take a picture of a piece of property for sale? Or for that matter, find free pictures of a Bar Scene? She reminds me of RE agents back a few years ago when all they had to do was list a property, field offers and take the 3%!

    Posted 2 years ago #         
  47. christopherboffoli
    Member Profile

    Carson: Exactly! While there really is an art to lighting interiors for real estate photography, it would be so easy just to grab an exterior shot (or inexpensive to hire a stringer to do it).

    Posted 2 years ago #         
  48. Totally! To get an exterior street shot is childs play. Every agent I know has a digital camera for just that work. Plus, if you are selling commercial its usually empty space, even less of a need for professional pictures. Must be lazy, to an extreme.

    Posted 2 years ago #         
  49. with all the talk on this thread (and I'm surprised lessons weren't learned the first time), I'm wondering if permission was sought from the architect/ artist that did the renderings for Admiral safeway (that are posted on Catalyst Commercial Partners' website).
    I imagine those are copyrighted too, but things like that get reproduced on the internet all the time.

    Posted 2 years ago #         
  50. All the photos on the site have changed too. I am guessing they got a call from Getty.

    Posted 2 years ago #         

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