WSB Forum » West Seattle Rants & Raves

(14 posts)

RANT: Passing in Intersections


  1. First, most drivers are really good about NOT doing this. But it's a few who cause the problem in this area.

    The area is 36th Ave, between Fauntleroy and Alaska. Note this is an official marked bike route and as such is a street many cyclists use on a daily basis. So if you commonly encounter cyclists here, do not be surprised. http://www.cityofseattle.net/transportation/bikemaps.htm

    Next, note that the Right of Way is well defined per WA State. And unless I, even if I'm on my bicycle, waive you around me when I'm in an intersection (which I will never do because it's illegal - see below) you don't pass me:
    SMC 11.14.525 Right-of-way. "Right-of-way" means the right of one (1) vehicle, bicycle, pedestrian or device to proceed in a lawful manner in preference to another vehicle, bicycle, pedestrian or device approaching under such ircumstances of direction, speed, and proximity as to give rise to the possibility of collision unless one (1) grants precedence to the other.

    In case you are confused about exactly what an intersection is, there are precisely two of them on this street between Fauntleroy and Alaska: SMC 11.14.265 Intersection. A. "Intersection" means the area enclosed within the projection of the lateral curbs, or if no urbs, then the projection of the lateral roadway boundaries of two (2) or more streets which join one another at an angle, whether or not such streets cross each other.

    And no, you cannot pass me in an intersection. I am ahead of you, I have the right of way, and it's dangerous to do so. Even though there are no road markings there is still a "centerline" of the roadway which you are not allowed to cross:
    SMC 11.53.260 Driving on left side -- intersection -- Railroad crossing. No person shall operate a vehicle on the left side of the centerline when approaching within one hundred (100) feet of or traversing any intersection or railroad grade crossing. (RCW 46.61.125(1)(b))

    Maybe you need to brush up on your driver's manual:
    http://www.dol.wa.gov/driverslicense/driverguide.pdf
    "The law says who must yield the right-of-way, it does not give anyone the right-of-way. You must do everything you can to prevent striking a pedestrian, on foot or in a wheelchair, or another vehicle (this includes bicycles), regardless of the circumstances."

    "At an intersection where there is no stop sign, yield sign, or traffic signal, drivers must yield to vehicles in the intersection and to those coming from the right."

    To the woman driving the Subaru who apparently decided I was going too slow for her for one block after she pulled out of the YMCA this morning and passed me in the next intersection, maybe you'll read this. Maybe you will realize that putting a human life in danger is not a nice thing to do. That "anti-abortion" sticker on your car, "Protect Human Life" does not apply to human lives so long as those lives are cyclists then? And in the end, we both got to the stop sign at the same time. Was it worth it? Waiting 3 seconds to put your foot on the accelerator is not difficult.

    Posted 1 year ago #         
  2. Like most things, we all drive better when we THINK. As in think about what we're doing, pay attention to our driving and give consideration to others. Other drivers, pedestrians, cyclists etc. Remember that there is no legitimate reason to endanger other people simply because you're in a hurry, or impatient. It is our responsibility to know the rules and obey them. It all comes down to maturity, discipline, thought and giving a darn. Unfortunately so many simply can't manage much discipline and treat driving way too casually. Racing through yellows turning red is a classic example of this as is being on the phone. Which many of us still are. Of course, it's the irresponsible that really stick out and we notice them. Very many good drivers out there too.

    Please think about your driving and get the priorities straight. Pay attention-watch for crosswalks. You're not in that much of a hurry and just because you're in a car doesn't mean you can do things you'd never do face to face.

    Posted 1 year ago #         
  3. lucky chick
    Member Profile

    dbsea:

    Excellent post. Should be required reading to get a license. Of course, you can't mandate "maturity, discipline, thought and giving a darn," but we can dream...

    Posted 1 year ago #         
  4. Thank you, Chick, I'm a bit slow in reading this.

    Posted 1 year ago #         
  5. lucky chick
    Member Profile

    Quel co-inky-dink, I must be feeling less generous today than when I wrote that, since I just now logged on because I was considering writing something like:
    -
    DRIVERS: Kindly pull your phone out of your ear, your head out of your @ss, and pay attention!

    :)

    Posted 1 year ago #         
  6. I'm not arguing the point, Al, but I'm having trouble visualizing this situation.

    Did you you have to travel outside the bike lane to get through the intersection? Were you turning left from the left lane?

    I'm also not clear on the exact location. Is this the spot you're talking about:

    Looks like a challenging spot to navigate by any means.

    Posted 1 year ago #         
  7. No offense taken DP. Note there are no bike lanes in this area to begin with. And no, I'm not referencing the intersection of Avalon/Fauntleroy.

    The two intersections most problematic for drivers seem to be 36th and SW Oregon and 36th and SW Snoqualmie. Straightforward, plain old intersections. Just this week as I was approaching SW Oregon, southbound, using the right side of the roadway, a motorist accelerated around me (the engine clearly revved up) and as I was entering the intersection made a right turn directly in front of me causing me to brake in order not to run into their vehicle - a classic "right hook" situation. The driver couldn't be bothered to slow for about 4 seconds to yield to my ROW in this situation.

    Sometimes drivers even try to pass, or do dangerously pass me, and execute a "right hook" as I am approaching the stop sign at SW Alaskan.

    Hopefully this helps!

    Posted 1 year ago #         
  8. Thanks. I'll swing by and take some pix.

    Posted 1 year ago #         
  9. Wait a min. These should be low traffic streets and intersections perfect for bike travel. Especially compared to the carnage a few streets away.

    I suspect these are those who are trying to avoid traffic and traffic controls on those nearby arterials.

    I see them in the area around Admiral and they are dangerous even to other auto drivers.

    Posted 1 year ago #         
  10. redblack
    Member Profile

    redblack

    exactly right, ken. but the triangle is used by those of us who live between there and fairmount elementary/park or the mount to access the bridges. or by folks visiting the Y. or alki lumber.

    the intersections are uncontrolled, and drivers frequently stop when they don't have to, or don't yield like they're supposed to.

    people traveling north and south on 36th think they automatically have the right of way, because it's a more heavily-travelled street. occasionally, someone who knows how intersections work will cross 36th at snoqualmie. the result is predictable.

    Posted 1 year ago #         
  11. The intersection at 36th SW and SW Snoqualmie at 5:20 PM yesterday, southbound:

    Car traffic was light and slow, but bicycle traffic was indeed brisk. I saw four bikes in five minutes.

    There's no reason I can see that drivers should be less mindful of bikes here than any other place. If anything, I'd think they would proceed more cautiously because of those uncontrolled intersections, Y traffic, and cars parked along both sides of the road. But then again, there is the "shortcut" factor to be considered. And maybe people do throw caution to the wind when there's no stop sign in sight.

    My money says the Subaru lady was probably just copping a 'tude. Unfortunately, there are lots of people like that on the roads. And there always will be. Take your average frustrated suburbanite (and don't we all fit the bill at times?), wrap a couple tons of steel around him, give him a hundred horses' worth of ego, and hey presto: He's a god. And everyone else but a worm.

    I honestly worry about you, Al. I worry that someday you're going to stand on your rights as a cyclist (which rights I absolutely affirm) and some ditz of a Subaru Lady or Hummer-dum is going to mow you down without a second glance.

    At the worst, she'll get "manslaughter." Or maybe just a citation for "failing to yield."

    For your sake, I wish we were in Holland. But alas, this is 'merica.
     

    Posted 1 year ago #         
  12. Cool DP. I worry about me too and don't put myself in front of dangerous drivers on purpose or to prove a point. That's way too aggressive for my taste and I don't trust them (or really, any driver) anyway. :-0

    I am more worried about getting hit by a driver who "thinks" they have more right to be on the roadway than I do and who "takes" my ROW when I have no out...which I why I always try to maintain that out/exit strategy.

    My posts here are mainly to illustrate some commonalities among some driver's apparently incorrect assumptions about how the streets are meant to function and to bring awareness to the problems and some problem areas for cyclists in WS.

    Lucky for us, the Triangle area will likely be vastly improved in the next several years as SDOT has some good plans to slow traffic through there and create a more pedestrian friendly environment.

    Posted 1 year ago #         
  13. velo_nut
    Member Profile

    velo_nut

    I've been on the receiving end of an Oldsmobile while on a training ride with my team... I was even IN the bike lane (going the speed limit too) when I ended up across the hood and in the windshield.
    .
    Missed the rest of the season and off the bike for 4 months.
    .
    As much as I like standing up for my rights as a cyclist, I know that I will always be on the losing end of any confrontation.

    Posted 1 year ago #         
  14. lucky chick
    Member Profile

    Velo nut - would you mind sharing the details of that incident? I keep a mental catalog and ride accordingly.

    Posted 1 year ago #         

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