Signed the petition.
Signed the petition.
WSB - This is yet another example of an instance where something's legality and its morality differ.
casimir81, anotherthought, and others who say no laws were broken,
Since when is it legal to repeatedly punch animals that are not being aggressive? Which animals do you consider acceptable to punch?
Sunset, I suggest you re-read the post by anotherthought. He/she was referring to a libel case - not animal cruelty.
anonyme, I suggest you re-read the first paragraph of post 48.
How about some levity!
OCTOPI WEST SEATTLE!
Sunset, don't misunderstand - I am fully as angry as you are. I was even a fully trained PETA soldier at one time. Not only that, one of my earlier posts was even deleted due to my blunt 'opinion' of the perp. But that's not the issue at hand.
I read the paragraph you refer to, and anotherthought is correct. What Dylan did was not right IMO, but unfortunately it was legal. I agree completely that punching an animal to death is horrible, but not very different from the standard method - which is clubbing - or the even more horrible death by "butchery" - slicing the octo up for super fresh sushi while it's alive. When it comes to non-mammalian sea life that is considered a food source, there are laws about how the creatures can be "harvested" - but none that I know of that regulate how or when they are actually killed.
Again, I AM NOT SUPPORTING ANY OF THIS. Only anotherthought can clarify this for sure, but I didn't read anything in the post that sounded pro-cruelty.
If the community here is too inhospitable for you, Dylan, I hear there's this fishing fleet in Taiji, Japan, that works the waters in your preferred style.
Montanapup, Irukandji - hearts and thumbs up! "Octopi West Seattle"? Awesome. I'm in for a T-shirt!
BTW, Montanapup - welcome to the WSB. So far, I really like your style.
@ anonyme - thanks! the WSB is a great resource. i love all the folks and the community. great group.
hmmmm, regarding t-shirts - didnt think of that! it would be a great way to bring attention and maybe fundraise? let me check to see what it would take!
Montana, my thoughts exactly. Fund the cause.
montanapup - If you put "Octopi West Seattle," along with a cool octopus design, on a green, blue, black, or red t-shirt, please let me know where I can send my $30. :)
I think anonyme describes my view correctly. I also pointed out then (and reiterate now) that there is a difference between legal and right. And I hate what happened.
I neither hunt nor fish. I don't eat seafood. The modest amount of meat I do eat is all farm raised in, as best I am able to tell, a humane manner. But hunting and fishing ARE legal -- and for some low income families also their only real source of protein.
Cove 2 is not currently a protected area. It is legal to take one GPO per day with a shellfish license. He had a shellfish license. It is legal to take while on SCUBA. It appears to even be legal to take it had it been a female with eggs (it appears a male was likely taken). It does not appear that they used an illegal technique (spearing or using chemicals).
For reasons that I don't understand, the social norms around "hunting" are very different above and below the water. Can you imagine allowing catch and release hunting for deer using a hook baited with an apple -- that you then reel in? Or it being OK to use a "fish stick" on an elk?
In this instance, the diver said the octopus had a tentacle around his neck and was using another to try and dislodge his regulator. And that, while he was at the surface, his face was still in the water and the punches were to get the octopus to release the grip.
Thus why I think what he did was legal (but not right). These two guys are both around 20 and need to be educated on some things...I am hopeful that can be done in a civil manner.
I can hook you up with someone who creates a BEAUTIFUL piece of Octo Art, and she's here in West Seattle: Jennifer Cepeda. Maybe she'd be interested!
Thanks for the petition link - if I had eight arms, I'd sign it eight times!
Libel may be a stretch, but here's something those directly involved may want to consider:
Obstructing the taking of fish, shellfish, or wildlife — Penalty.
(1) A person is guilty of obstructing the taking of fish[, shellfish,] or wildlife if the person:
(a) Harasses, drives, or disturbs fish, shellfish, or wildlife with the intent of disrupting lawful pursuit or taking thereof; or
(b) Harasses, intimidates, or interferes with an individual engaged in the lawful taking of fish, shellfish, or wildlife or lawful predator control with the intent of disrupting lawful pursuit or taking thereof.
(2) Obstructing the taking of fish, shellfish, or wildlife is a gross misdemeanor.
(3) It is an affirmative defense to a prosecution for obstructing the taking of fish, shellfish, or wildlife that the person charged was:
(a) Interfering with a person engaged in hunting outside the legally established hunting season; or
(b) Preventing or attempting to prevent unauthorized trespass on private property.
(4) The person raising a defense under subsection (3) of this section has the burden of proof by a preponderance of the evidence.
Just like gun ownership...like it or not, sport harvesting is a right people have. So much so there is a specific WA law written to protect that right. Bob Bailey, and people looking to identify and confront Dylan (or ANYONE involved in legal sport harvesting), could be looking at a gross misdemeanor.
made NPR this weekend:
His picture is also making the rounds on facebook - several friends across the US have posted it over the last couple of days asking if anyone knows who he is. Anyone know whether he's been connected with a diving mentor yet? It'd be nice to see the guy who confronted him do it.
So often the negative media over powers the positive. In order to make sure that this story doesn't get lost I wanted to post this update:
A group of divers made a presentation today to the WDFW commisoners to ask for an emergency closure of the Seacrest Park to the harvesting of Octopi. While no decisions were made today the most importatn thing to note is that DYLAN MAYER showed up and spoke to the comission to support the iniative. DYLAN showed a lot of maturity today and should be commended by the community for doing the right thing under pressure. He deserves the positive attention today.
After being blackballed from every dive shop in the Pacific Northwest, he did something that a dive shop owner asked him to do so that he'll be able to dive again. That doesn't show maturity; it just shows that he will do what he needs to do to get what he wants.
He seems to enjoy making creatures that are smaller than he is suffer. I don't want him to come back here because I see no reason to believe that he will stop that kind of behavior.
That's great to hear!
“I don't want him to come back here because I see no reason to believe that he will stop that kind of behavior.”
And what makes you think that anybody really cares what YOU want?
Frankly, you are not in the position to pass judgment on this kid nor do you have the right to do so. It appears that the overwhelming consensus amongst his peers is that he has made his amends.
Your mind-set is part of the problem, not the solution.
Someone old enough to vote, marry, and serve in the military is not a "kid." At the legal age when one is expected to have the maturity and judgment to do those three things, one is old enough to be expected not to hurt smaller creatures for amusement.
I'd really like to know if anyone on the forum has seen the Facebook postings that caused such an uproar? If true (killing a porcupine for fun, blowing up a snake with a firecracker) these acts indicate a sadistic streak that is unlikely to be diverted by attendance at any meeting. Even for hunters, this is not normal behavior.
So, like Sunset, I'm a little skeptical about precisely what lesson Dylan has learned, and what he's done to make "amends", aside from becoming more secretive and careful about what he does and says in front of witnesses.
sunset (#74) . . . yes and no.
Yes, a 19-year-old is old enough to know better than to hurt animals. Hell, a 5-year-old should know better than that. But in the case in question, a young person actually made two mistakes, not one. And the age of accountability does not apply equally to both of them.
His first mistake was "harvesting" an octopus in a particular way. (Whether he regrets that now is a point under discussion here, but I'll address that in my next post.)
His second mistake was in boasting about what he did, threatening to go get another octopus, and so on. Looks bad when you think about the poor octopus, yeah. But really, those are typical behaviors for a 19-year-old. It's part of being a teenager to act recklessly, to boast, to contradict the advice of wiser heads.
Let me ask you something:
Were you ever a 19-year-old?
Didn't you ever make mistakes and then persist in them?
Ever tell your parents or the other adults to get lost?
If not, you'd be the rare exception. I know that I did all these things. And how!
Don't let the fact that a 19-year-old can join the Army* or vote fool you into thinking that he's a bonafide grown-up. There are lots of things a 19-year-old still can't do legally, and that would include things like drinking a beer, renting a car, getting an unsecured credit card.
Recent studies have suggested that young people don't reach full maturity in terms of their emotional and ethical development (to say nothing of judgment) until around age 26. If that's true, then our guy has several years to go.
On the other hand, he's gotten some particuarly hard lessons lately, so he might actually be ahead of the curve at this point.
*Ever wonder why the Army welcomes teenage boys into its ranks? Did you really think that was because of their maturity?
I expect that I'm not going to convince my friend anonyme on this, but in this young man's defense, I'd like to cite the following tidbit from today's Seattle Times.
Please pay special attention to the second paragraph:
The Washington state Department of Fish & Wildlife announced Thursday that it will consider bans on octopus harvesting near popular Seattle beaches and possibly other areas in Puget Sound.
Dylan Mayer, the octopus hunter who sparked an outrage when he took one of the charismatic animals at Cove 2, a popular dive site in West Seattle, was the first voice for a ban on hunting in the cove at a public hearing before the state Fish and Wildlife Commission meeting in Olympia.
Now please consider that this young man, after having already taken considerable public criticism, came to a meeting where he knew he could expect even MORE criticism . . . and expressed remorse for his actions, while at the same time giving full support to a new law that would forever stand in condemnation of what he did.
To me that doesn't sound like an "angle." That sounds like a genuine change of heart. A change of heart of the kind we sadly don't see too much of anymore.
Dylan's made some serious errors, yes. But what he's done to atone for those errors is certainly more than some of our recent Presidents have done to atone for their considerably graver ones.
But then, perhaps we're holding this young man to a higher standard than the one to which we hold our leaders.
Think about that.
I will shoot, kill, eat lots of things. I can give a Coho a good slap with the ball bat when I land em...no much remorse for deer or elk.. But, there are few species, that will actively seek us out..and seem to want a contact, want to interact. So.. dolphins, whales, noooo... but the octopus... it's an ancient survivor..and it is too too smart for me to harvest. If it meets you in the sea.. and all is cool... he will want to know as much about you as you do it. It's a very, very intelligent animal to lay waste to. It's an arbitrary line to draw (I suppose some PETA folks were offended the first line). But a species that smart, so unlike us ..that will develop social rituals with us in their environment if they are not afraid or threatened. Something to consider.
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