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rant meat processing

Started 1 year ago by dufus
Latest reply from JoB

dufus
Member Profile

Graphic video re: meat processing plant practices
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iBbYUdvGWk0
Relevant to West Seattle because of all the meat sold and eaten here in our own neighborhood.

Posted 1 year ago #
johnnyblegs
Member Profile

What exactly is your intent in posting this video? For shock value? To try and turn people into vegetarians?

This should be a RAVE for the Swinery who buys their meat from local farmers who raise and butcher their animals humanely.

Relevant to WS because of all the meat sold and eaten here? Hmmm...VERY GOOD POINT! Maybe you should take your great insight on the road, like South Seattle or North Seattle or East Seattle or Washington or the whole dang United States because of all the meat sold and eaten there?

Meat is food. and it's tasty food. Bacon is delicious and no shock value video will stop me from eating it.

Posted 1 year ago #
Ken
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PETA=People Eating Tasty Animals

Posted 1 year ago #
MargL
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Husband just got me this shirt -
http://shirt.woot.com/friends.aspx?k=16285

:-)

Posted 1 year ago #
Sue
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I appreciate that dufus warned that the video was graphic. So many food/vegetarian activists share videos for shock value, without warning. We are all free to watch or not watch, eat meat or not eat meat. I didn't see that dufus was making any statement against those who eat meat, but against the practices shown in the video. I think it's very important that people actually know where their food comes from and how it's obtained.

Disclaimer: I now eat a vegetarian diet (very sigificantly vegan, actually), but am not an activist nor make any personal judgments over what others eat or don't eat - I just take care of my own needs and trust others to do the same for themselves.

Posted 1 year ago #
Zenguy
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Two things:

One...I did not crawl my way to the top of the food chain to be a vegetarian.

Two...there is plenty of room for all of God's creatures, right next to the mashed potatoes.

On a more serious note. I feel animals should be treated humanely, during their upbringing.

Posted 1 year ago #
StringCheese
Member Profile

We present “farming” as it existed long ago. When animal husbandry was real.

With our neatly packaged meat products in our sanitized grocery stores, it’s simply too easy to take the actual death out of meat consumption.

Take the kids to a slaughter house, let them see where their hotdogs really come from. Do you shudder at the thought? Perhaps because the death of so many animals is grisly and horrifying? We don’t do it because it is disturbing and we don’t want to subject our children to death and bloodshed. We want to go on thinking that our neatly wrapped pound of ground came from some abstract, far-off place. I think that if we were honest with kids (and ourselves) from the start, there would be a lot more vegetarians running around.

OK, before you carnivorous blog hounds pounce on me, ask yourself – Would you show your child (if you had one) the process of meat production from start to finish? From “life” on a (factory) farm, through slaughter, through rendering… Not a book, mind you, a real “meat” tour. Why not?

Proceed, if you will, to the slaughter of this post…

Posted 1 year ago #
hopey
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Only if it was a slaughterhouse designed by Temple Grandin, who has designed the most humane livestock facilities in the world.

The slaughtering of animals doesn't have to be inhumane. We raise animals for food; why shouldn't we eat them? I would like to show my children that we can be humane in slaughtering the animals we use for food.

And no, I didn't watch the video. I don't care for gratuitously shocking violence.

Posted 1 year ago #
dufus
Member Profile

Wow, touchy and rather defensive in SOME of the responses above. If you are shocked, that means you have a heart. If you are shocked...then you are shocked by a terrible reality... as you should be. Jeez, I'm not saying you SHOULD be vegan or vegetarian, only that you should know what happens to the animals you purchase at QFC or Safeway or wherever. I don't know anything about the way the Swinery's animals are killed and butchered for our consumption. I did get a rather so-so porter house steak there once. But the bacon was good. I personally can't bury my head in the sand anymore just because meat taste yummy. I love my cat, love dogs..can't imagine treating them this way, so why does a cow or pig deserve this? Any-who...sometimes "shock" is justified when things are indeed... shocking. I was shocked, and so were many animals in the video ;) Not funny. I am not saying people shouldn't eat meat, I eat meat... although I'm planning to go vegetarian over the course of the next few months. But if you condone the "processing" being done in this video you are one sick focher. Sure, there are humane ways to kill animals, so why not do that instead? And why not treat them humanely while they are alive!? Did you see those pigs who were pregnant and how they were kept? With all the concern about diabetes and obesity in this country, I doubt any of us need to eat meat - plenty of protein sources around besides animal protein. If you want to eat meat, you should know where it comes from and by what means. There are laws protecting animals from cruelty and abuse, why don't they apply to farm animals? And I only put the part about relevance to West Seattle in my initial post because the forums are supposed to be relevant to West Seattle, at least that is what I thought. Everyone in any country where animals are basically tortured for human consumption should be concerned. We reap what we sow... it is just bad karma for humans to treat animals that way. Not to mention how that type of work must make the processing workers emotionally distressed having to treat /kill animals that way day in and day out. If you want to Rave about the swinery, do so, I don't care. It is a free country. So I rant about what I want to rant about and I rant and I rant -- when given a free forum to rant,why not? Ranting is good for letting off steam. You should try it.

Posted 1 year ago #
dawsonct
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CAFOs and massive slaughterhouses are the most efficient way for corporations to make money. What do you have against humongous, untaxed corporate profits?
I'll keep eating meat (no vegetable substitute for pork), and won't even THINK about a 100% vegan diet (don't eat real cheese!? Fugedaboutit!), but I do prefer to purchase my meat from a real butcher who knows something about their sources. A twelve-pack of Safeway rib-eyes is not appealing to me.

Posted 1 year ago #
redblack
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the answer to why we don't slaughter animals humanely is simple, dufus:

there are too many people eating too few animals.

factory farming is the only was industry can keep up with the demand for meat.

it's complex on a number of levels; but the best thing we can do is reduce demand in our own diets and make informed choices. because, like it or not, right or wrong, the system is in place, and a lot of people rely on cheap, badly-processed food for sustenance. it's not something that can be stopped overnight.

that's not to say that we shouldn't try to inform consumers of the ramifications of their choices in the interest of better health and humane slaughter.

Posted 1 year ago #
ws4ever
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Thanks, dufus. A good reminder.

Posted 1 year ago #
anonyme
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I'm always a little dismayed by the term "humanely slaughtered". What exactly does this mean? Non-human meat animals are most certainly not put to death by lethal injection, and I really can't think of any method of murder that could be considered "humane". What would your choice be? Bludgeoning, a bullet (hopefully in the head), having your throat cut, or death by one of those slaughterhouse air guns like the one used by the psychopath in "No Country for Old Men"? The terminology is both ironic and irrelevant.

Dufus, I agree with you on how differently some species of animals are treated than others. Many hard core carnivores get very upset at the prospect of cats or dogs being treated as anything less than human family members, yet think nothing of condemning an animal equally intelligent (such as a pig) to a horrible life - and death. I saw a funny bumper sticker years ago that addressed this anomaly. It read "Save the whales? What did the cows do wrong?"

Make any choice you like, but do so in an informed manner.

Posted 1 year ago #
Zenguy
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The answer here is simple, if you want to eat meat deal whith how it is produced.

If how meat is produced bothers you, don't eat it.

I know how meat is produced but choose not to dwell on it. I am pretty sure a Cheetah does not sit on the dilemna fence after killing a Gazell. I know that we are more evolved (or at least we tell ourselves that) and I have gone for periods of time being Vegetarian (can't do the Vegan thing, cheese and I are friends) but I just frankly enjoy a good piece of meat and some gravy.

Posted 1 year ago #
hopey
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If how meat is produced bothers you, don't eat it.

You hit the nail on the head, Zenguy.

Posted 1 year ago #
anonyme
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Cabbages and cardboard boxes are "produced". Animals are not products, be they human or otherwise. Fear and pain are just a few of the very real emotions experienced by a wide spectrum of species other than our own. If you choose to dismiss these realities, that is absolutely your choice. But it IS a choice, just as certainly as it IS a reality.

Posted 1 year ago #
JoB
Member Profile

string cheese..

"OK, before you carnivorous blog hounds pounce on me, ask yourself – Would you show your child (if you had one) the process of meat production from start to finish? From “life” on a (factory) farm, through slaughter, through rendering… Not a book, mind you, a real “meat” tour. Why not?"

Well.. yes.. i would.. though not a factory farm..
i grew up with access to the family farm and learned to slaughter what we ate... and i did the same for my kids at the local communal farm.

some of us do choose to eat meat produced the old fashioned family farm way...

for those who choose humanely produced and slaughtered meat...
it's available at local co-ops, specialty butchers like the swinery and the farmer's market.

Posted 1 year ago #
Jiggers
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Anyone see the cable reality TV show "Kill it,cook it, eat it."? Very cool watching them slice the chickens head and watching the blood drain out.

Posted 1 year ago #
JoB
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jiggers..
glad to see you feeling so much better
your sense of humor is returning

Posted 1 year ago #
redblack
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jiggers: a better movie is food, inc.

anonyme: by inhumane, i mean raising beef cattle in overcrowded pens where they are forced to eat things - like corn - that they can't digest very well. constant fear and stress makes their bodies produce chemicals that aren't good for them, let alone for human consumption.

free range animals that graze on grass not only produce better, healthier meat, but they also don't produce massive amounts of concentrated waste runoff.

Posted 1 year ago #
hopey
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anonyme, do you know who Temple Grandin is? Did you look at the link I provided in my previous post? Here is another one: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Temple_Grandin Have you heard about or seen the movie about her early life and career, which was produced by HBO and won tons of awards? http://www.hbo.com/movies/temple-grandin/#/movies/temple-grandin/synopsis.html

Temple Grandin has pretty much single-handedly revolutionized the modern slaughterhouse, literally taking the physical point of view of the animals, and striving to design facilities which reduce the animals' stress and provide a humane slaughter.

And yes, it is possible to slaughter without the animals experiencing undue stress or fear. Here is a quote from the website I linked to in my previous post:

When stunning is done correctly, the animal feels no pain and it becomes instantly unconscious.

I really highly recommend the HBO movie, as it goes in-depth into Grandin's process for taking the animal's point of view and reducing their stress. It's really fascinating stuff, and she is an amazing woman.

Here is another quote I just found on the Wikipedia page:

"I think using animals for food is an ethical thing to do, but we've got to do it right. We've got to give those animals a decent life and we've got to give them a painless death. We owe the animal respect."
—Temple Grandin

However, I do realize that I'm mostly talking to a brick wall here. Perhaps some others reading this thread might be more interested in her work.

Posted 1 year ago #
JoB
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hopey..

Temple Grandin's story and how she has used what most would consider a disability to revolutionize the meat industry is an example to us all that either/or is not the only solution.

Posted 1 year ago #
anonyme
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Hopey, did you just refer to me as a brick wall? I sure hopey not, but as your post was directed at me it kinda looks that way.

I am quite familiar with Temple Grandin's story, thank you. Her methods are without doubt a move in the right direction. However, the actual moment of death is not the only step in the process of slaughter. The animals can hear, smell and sense what is happening or about to happen, whether the chute is straight or concentric. Each individual slaughter does not happen in a completely closed and isolated environment. Thousands of animals are kept in holding pens waiting their turn for the chute; animals are not "dumb" as many of us have been led to believe.

I've stated it several times already, but let me repeat that I'm not making a case for or against the eating of meat - despite the fact that there are many more cons than pros. I'm merely pointing out some inconsistencies in attitudes about slaughter that many meat eaters would probably prefer to deny or diminish. This indicates the presence of a conscience, but again, does not alter the facts.

Redblack, I wasn't arguing with or referring to your post when I challenged the meaning of inhumane. Sorry if that wasn't clear. And I absolutely agree that the environmental aspects of the American meat addiction are just as devastating as some of the other ethical questions.

Posted 1 year ago #
DP
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Jo: If what you are saying (#22) is that there doesn't have to be cruelty for there to be meat eating, I agree with that. However, I also agree with anonyme, if what she is saying (#23) is that animals still suffer considerably under even the most "humane" of slaughtering procedures. Suffering is a part of life, of course, but the meat question really gets down to the issue of cruelty, which is something distinct from suffering — though the two are definitely related.

anonyme: You've probably already surmised this, but there's not much middle ground on this issue. Some meat eaters are willing to listen to well-reasoned arguments without freaking out, but more often, they get defensive. Which is understandable, given that meat plays such a huge part in our lives and culture.

Anyway, you said there were many more "cons" than "pros" to meat eating just now, and I'd be very interested to hear you talk about just what you think those pros and cons are. If you do, I promise I'll respond in kind.

–David

Posted 1 year ago #
anonyme
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Thank you DP for your thoughtful questions. I'll try to do them justice in this small space.

First, the cons:

Meat, especially in the super-sized servings consumed by Americans, is not a healthy choice for most people. I don't think there is enough evidence to suggest that meat in small quantities, eaten occasionally, is detrimental to health - although this may be true for some. Americans are obsessed with protein, as if it were the only nutrient essential to health. In fact, many vegetables (including broccoli) have a high percentage of protein.

I don't have the exact figures at hand, but the environmental aspects of raising livestock is devastating worldwide. Much of the razing of rain forest in the Amazon basin is for livestock grazing, cheap beef for McDonald's. Billions of animals are raised annually for slaughter in this country alone. Grazing destroys grassland and the tons and tons of waste generated by these billions of animals poisons water sources. It takes a vast amount of water - our most precious and fast diminishing FINITE resource - to produce a single pound of beef. Most of the grain grown in the U.S. (most of it genetically modified)is for livestock feed, not human consumption. Again, I hesitate to make assertions without having actual facts at hand, but I've read that the amount of grain fed to cattle alone is enough to feed the world (humans).

I don't want to get too long-winded, so as my last 'con' I'll say that IMO the murder of other sentient beings for consumption is a bit shaky, ethically speaking. There is more evidence coming to light every day that non-human animals, including birds, think, feel, and know more than we ever thought possible. As Redblack pointed out, the demand for meat is so enormous that factory farming is probably a necessary evil - and it is evil. As much as I question the reality of "humane slaughter" I don't think there can be any doubt that factory farming not only involves tremendous suffering, but an inherent amount of cruelty.

OK, the pros:

Um, I really can't think of many. Meat tastes good, but that's not much of an argument. I do think it possible that certain people may have a biological need for some amount of meat in their diets, but the evidence is pretty anecdotal for that one.

Sorry DP, I'm tired now. Your turn.

Posted 1 year ago #
Jiggers
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You would think that technology today would be helpful in making it less traumatic for animals livng on the Green Mile.

Posted 1 year ago #
dhg
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The way I see it, meat production is a pipeline and if you reduce your consumption of meat, you slow the pipeline which ultimately results in fewer cattle and pigs being bred. There are billions of cows and pigs that exist because of our need for meat and those animals would never be allowed to live if it weren't for slaughter. So I like Temple's attitude toward this: We owe them a good life and a humane slaughter (I will not order lamb or veal, by the by). I think we should respect the animal. I strongly abhor eating contests. I do not approve of Mythbuster's use of pig carcasses for testing crazy theories. I think we should be aware of what we are eating and be thankful for it.

Posted 1 year ago #
DP
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OK, anonyme:

Con 1: Meat's not healthy in the amounts most Americans eat.

Agreed, although technically it's the fat that's the unhealthy part, but that's a quibble.

The omega-3s in fish oil are supposedly healthy for us, but even that argument is losing ground as saltwater fish become ever more contaminated with heavy metals.

Con 2: Current methods of meat production are bad for the planet.

Agreed again. But this doesn't have to be the case. Following from redblack's comment, if we all reduced to our meat intake to a healthier amount AND if we chose to subsidize smaller, more ecologically sound producers, this one could be turned around. Of course, those are two very big IFs . . .

Con 3: Meat is ethically wrong.

Agreed again. Sort of. Let's leave aside the question of factory farming, which is something that we're both opposed to. You and I can also agree, I think, that there's no such thing as totally humane slaughter, since there's plenty of evidence to suggest that nearly every kind of animal we kill for meat can experience fear and pain.

I don't agree with your use of the term "murder" in this case, and I think it's highly prejudicial. (If I were a lawyer and we were in court, I'd object. Hell, I may just object anyway . . . Your Honor! I object!)

While I don't think slaughtering an animal for food equates to murdering a human being, I will grant that we should still have ethical qualms about it, since we are causing the animal to suffer.

However, we take many actions in life that we may have ethical qualms about, even while considering these actions, as a whole, to be ethical ones.

I have ethical qualms about my tax money being used to kill people in Afghanistan, for example. I could take a stand and refuse to pay taxes. But I don't do that, because, to my mind, the price I'd pay for soothing my conscience would simply be too great. In other words, I'd feel worse about going to jail my own self than I do about the idea of someone else using my money to kill people in Afghanistan.

I also have ethical qualms about sentient animals dying to satisfy my hunger for meat. I could take a stand on that, too, but I don't, because again, the price I'd pay — in terms of emotional health, if nothing else — would be too great.

People choose their battles, and some people are willing to make great sacrifices in order to spare animals suffering. These people have my admiration. Not surprisingly, the vegans and vegetarians I know tend to be thoughtful and compassionate people. I respect them in a general sense, even though I do not aspire to be like them in this one particular.

So, to sum up the "cons," anon, I agree with you on almost everything. And I differ only slightly with you on the ethics issue.

************************************************************************************

On the "pro" side, three things come quickly to mind.

— Meat tastes good. Humans have evolved eating it over a million years or so, and as a result, we crave it. (Well, most of us do, anyway.) In fact, we crave meat the same way we crave sex, only more so. And that is why whenever you bring up arguments against meat, some people take it very, very personally. (Read: Jiggers)

— Meat is a lot of protein (and iron, etc.) in a small package. Yes there are alternative sources of almost everything good you can find in meat, thank God. But the "alternative sources" issue comes into play ONLY if you have already managed to surmount Pro argument #1, which is a high bar.

— For better or worse, meat is a core part of most cultures, including ours. So if you decide to give it up you are setting yourself up for some major social ostracism.* Sad but true. I can tell stories (as I'm sure you can yourself) of embarrassing moments at restaurants, family get-togethers, social functions, and on and on — I can tell you about friendships lost and marriages broken . . .

Veganism is not an easy life path, even here in oh-so-veg-friendly Seattle.

***************************************************************************************

FWIW: VegFest is coming up this month, and I'll be there. Chowing down.

http://www.vegofwa.org/vegfest/

—DP

*Interestingly enough, though, I think the social aspects are part of what attracts some people to veganism. My best friend, who is a vegan (and also an eccentric, but perhaps I repeat myself), seems to revel in his "differentness," seeing veganism as part of his essential character, in much the same way that meat eaters see eating meat as part of theirs.

Posted 1 year ago #
miws
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The omega-3s in fish oil are supposedly healthy for us, but even that argument is losing ground as saltwater fish become ever more contaminated with heavy metals.

It's all Rich's fault! ;-)

Mike

Posted 1 year ago #
JoB
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anonyme...

pros..
L Carnitine...

Posted 1 year ago #
Zenguy
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Anything sold is a product and yes, I mean anything. We could even go further, I market myself as a product when I am applying for a job too.

I would have no problem showing my child how meat products are made and then they could decide for themselves if they want to eat meat or not. To all the people complaining about how animals are treated, do you eat meat? Wear Leather? It always kills me when people object to veal but eat sausage.

Posted 1 year ago #
DP
Member Profile

Zenguy: I get where you're coming from, but with all due respect, I think there are nuances to this debate that you're missing.

If you take your kid to an Amish farm or a "humane" slaughterhouse, she will see meat one way. If you take her to the Hormel plant, she'll see it another. As Jo says above (#22), this isn't a one-size-fits-all kind of deal.

People might object to the way both veal and sausage are produced, but they would do so for entirely different reasons, and these reasons have widely differing implications. Do you know what I'm saying here, or should I elaborate?

Finally, Zenguy, don't ever consider yourself to be a product, a "brand," or anything else of that nature. Because you're not a thing. You're a human being! And if you take nothing else away from this conversation, then please just do me this one favor, won't you? . . .

http://tinyurl.com/be-kind-to-aminals

Posted 1 year ago #
JoB
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DP...

no..
all meat products are not produced the same way...

you could look at it this way..
cheaper production methods result in a less nutritional product..
which makes sustainably raised farm meat both an economical and socially responsible choice for those of who have the luxury of making those choices...

but.. if it was once living and you are eating it.. someone.. somewhere.. has killed it for you.

I am ok with that. I have tried getting the kind of nutrition my body requires without eating meat and it didn't work out so well for me.

but i have to admit.
These days i have few guilty pleasures so even if regular consumption of red meat wasn't necessary for my physical well being... I suspect i would still find myself splurging for the occasional steak.

on your other note...

whether you like hearing it stated that way or not..
Zenguy is right...
in the workforce.. people are products.
the successful worker creates his/her brand and doesn't stop marketing it the day they get their job if they want to keep it or parlay it into a better job.

that doesn't make the brand they create for work the sum total of their existence..

Posted 1 year ago #
dufus
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I really just meant to help make more people aware of the practices, so we can possibly work toward some changes, for the better. I figured everyone with a conscience would at least agree that the practices shown in the video were unacceptable and kin to torture. Hmmm... I am rather disappointed to see people on this thread who just accept some of the slaughter practices shown in the video as just "the way things are". If we took that approach to everything, we'd make no progress on any front... you might still be driving a Ford Pinto, for example.

I figure we can make a collective difference to work toward change -to make the industry come into the 21st century. After all, people have become aware of pesticides, harmones, genetic engineering, etc. and how it potentially (and often times negatively) impacts their food/health. In response to us consumers becoming more involved and less passive in how we consume -- the "industry" produces food such as organic and utilizes more healthy means to produce, package, and market food because of consumer behavior. I believe we (consumers) can help make the industry, of killing animals for our consumption, somehow utilize more humane means, and be responsible, ethical, and less-monster like in the processing methods. Or perhaps animal consumption will all end one day? Cheetah doesn't have any other option than to take down the gazelle in any way it can -- to survive. Gee, Cheetah doesn't even have opposable thumbs - couldn't even use a stun gun. We, in the USA, do not need to eat meat to survive. It is our choice and it is within our thinking, willful minds (however small and narrow they are) to come up with a way to eat meat w/o torturing defenseless animals. The alien space ships may be coming one day, their kind may be very hungry...they may find the video I posted and figure it is an instructional/how to -- you better find a way to protect your testicles.

Posted 1 year ago #
DP
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I really just meant to help make more people aware of the practices, so we can possibly work toward some changes, for the better.

—dufus, I like you (and may God have mercy on your soul) but who are you trying to kid when you say you just meant to make people more aware ? Well . . . maybe that's what YOU meant, but that's definitely not what the video's producers meant.

The only solution proposed by in this video is for people to stop eating meat all together! (I'm cool with that argument. It's not going to work on me, but I'm cool with it.)

Anyway, let's be up-front about it, shall we? This is a strongly pro-vegan documentary. It's not about changing slaughtering methods. It's not about letting chickens roam free. It's about not eating meat, period.

Posted 1 year ago #
Zenguy
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And more to DP's point, I think most of us know how bad the conditions in some place can be. Not to say that all places are created equally as someone said earlier

Food is food, something has to die for us to live, be it a plant or an animal.

Posted 1 year ago #
sun-e
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@dufus - This video is for you: Is it local?: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l2LBICPEK6w

Posted 1 year ago #
sun-e
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BTW - Meat being sold and eaten is considered "relevant" to West Seattle?! Seriously?!

Posted 1 year ago #
dufus
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I was annoyed with those people on the video, sun-e. I do not think I am from Portlandia. To be honest, I actually could not watch the gross out animal torture video I posted, for more than a few seconds, I admit, it was not well vetted (no pun intended).

DP, I became "more aware" as a result of this video.."more aware" can mean a lot of things...such as "more awake". God spelled backward is dog, and soul spelled backward is luos. And Snip, snap, snout, this tale's told out.

Posted 1 year ago #
DP
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I like your style, sufud. Keep it up.

You know, speaking of West Seattle . . . I've been to places where chickens are so "free range" that a local saying goes: Su gallo, es mi gallo! — which, roughly translated, means: "If that rooster of yours wanders into my kitchen one more time, I'm inviting him to stay for supper."

True animal story: I ordered chicken at a roadside place in Nicaragua one time, and the next thing I knew, the proprietor was chasing one around my table, meat cleaver in hand.

Another true animal story: In Cambodia, farmers give their water buffalo showers and massages after they bring them in from the paddies.

How do I know that? Never you mind how I know that.

Posted 1 year ago #
redblack
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sun-e: i'll answer your question with two questions:

do people in west seattle not eat meat?

have you seen some of the other topics in forums?

we probably do owe TR a big thanks on a regular basis for letting us b.s. on her bandwidth at all hours of the day and night. :)

Posted 1 year ago #
sun-e
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redblack: It's hard for me to write sarcasm. Maybe this will clear up my point - Dufus was claiming that the video is relevant to WS and I was wondering how eating and selling meat is "relevant" to just West Seattle when eating and selling meat is done EVERYWHERE. Pretty weak in the "relevance" department, if you ask me.

Anyway, I'm a meat, chicken and fish eater - need that protien! :-)

Yes, many thanks to TR/WSB - it's therapeutic to be able to get this out of one's system day and night! :-)

Posted 1 year ago #
DP
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You're right, sun-e. But so what? Look how much attention this post has gotten. (43 posts so far.) Ergo: People in West Seattle care a lot about it.

Maybe this one would have been better posted in "politics," but then, it doesn't fit in perfectly there either, so dufus put it here instead.

I move that we drop this unenforceable restriction of "it has to be related to West Seattle." Either that or create a new forum section called "Whatever."

If something is relevant to readers' interests, it'll get play. If it's not relevant, it'll get ignored. It's not exactly like there's too much activity on the forum anyway, now is it?

In my opinion, there's too many lurkers, not enough contributors. That's the real problem.

Posted 1 year ago #
JoB
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dufus...

"We, in the USA, do not need to eat meat to survive."

not as long as you are happy taking supplements to get the nutrients you miss by choosing not to eat meat...

I am a whole food kind of girl..
juicing to up my vitamin/mineral content..
and eating meat
(humanely and sustainably raised, hormone free, grass fed meat)
to get the nutrients i need from meat.

i'm old fashioned that way :)

Posted 1 year ago #
Ken
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I have killed , skinned cooked and eaten an amazing variety of critters both wild and domesticated. I know how sausage is made and have participated in the process from start to finish.
(Which has prepared me to look into the bowels of politics)

Humane slaughter is a goal I support the same way I try to bring down a buck with one well placed shot. I have to admit I also don't want to track a wounded deer through acres of brush and swamp either so a little compassion and a little enlightened self interest mix with the urges of an unabashed carnivore.

My ex-wife raises 80,000 pigs and 40,000 turkeys every year for a processor and the process is not pretty, but the slaughter is done after the critters get delivered.

Production techniques of modern farming are part of the cost of civilization as far as I can tell.

A civilization based on soybeans and algae would be a bleak place for humans.

Posted 1 year ago #
Ken
Member Profile

There are people who strictly deprive themselves of each and every eatable, drinkable, and smokable which has in any way acquired a shady reputation. They pay this price for health. And health is all they get for it. How strange it is. It is like paying out your whole fortune for a cow that has gone dry.
-- Mark Twain (1835 - 1910)

Never eat more than you can lift.
-- Miss Piggy

Posted 1 year ago #
dufus
Member Profile

You are not fully informed about nutrition if you THINK you have to eat meat or take supplements to get necessary nutrition. Perhaps some folks have to, due to some underlying physical condition, but for most healthy people, eating meat is an option, not a nutritional requirement. If you do basic research you will see there is plenty of protein in many sources besides animal based food. I am not against eating meat, for those who want it or THINK they need it.

If people want to hunt and eat what they hunt, good on them. As long as they do it humanely as possible. I could only do it if starving. I just don't see the "sport" in hunting w/a rifle. Unless you blindfold yourself first, perhaps. But that's just me. I do kill roaches, so...

I eat lots of yummy food. Not algae and soy. Not moss, not a pine tree. I do not sacrifice by not eating meat, I truly enjoy other foods more. I have never in my life "tried " to be a vegetarian, I just don't like most meat. Now I believe it is my responsibility to try. and I am nervous to do so because it is difficult in our culture and I am basically lazy when it comes to food. That is probably why I really like whole food, it requires very little preparation. Pick up apple, eat apple.

Ken -- Although brilliant, Mark Twain was supposedly mean spirited. He reportedly didn't like human beings much, except as targets for his scorn and indignation. He also died of... heart disease. I'm not sure I'd listen to his opinion about how to live a full, fun life. I like to drink and eat sugar :( I think miss piggy has some legit advice, given you can't lift a hog or a cow, so don't eat it.

It is relevant to us all, especially relevant to West Seattle, because this is where I live, and it was my rant. And we have seal sitters, and I am afraid you meat eaters might get hungry when you see the little seals. Now remind me, why can't we go eat the seals?

Posted 1 year ago #
JoB
Member Profile

Dufus..

the healthy human body can take a lot of nutritional abuse and still survive.

if you want to know what the body needs to thrive you have to study the nutritional needs of the unhealthy human body...

they tell an entirely different story that doesn't start or end with protein..

Posted 1 year ago #
dufus
Member Profile

JoB -- You are so correct. And we have a plethora of study material (unhealthy human bodies) in the USA for sure. I believe it is exactly those unhealthy bodies that lead many I have known to become vegetarians and feel so much better for it. People just need to educate themselves about what is and isn't true about the things they eat and make up their own minds.

However, we know so much more about diet and nutrition these days it is a shame more people are not aware that many of the long held assumptions about the human body needing this or that to be healthy are very outdated. Including the idea that eating meat is necessary for good health and nutrition, Not to say all vegetarians, or vegans, are healthy -- health takes an all around approach to living. And anyway, what is healthy for one, may be unhealthy for another.

My whole rant really is about the needless harm caused to the animals by the PROCESSING... not about whether to eat meat or not... the PROCESSING part is the title of my rant. It is the way the animals are treated/ "processed" that I find repulsive and unacceptable.

Lots and lots of info about eating healthy w/o meat protein:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21139125

http://www.hsph.harvard.edu/nutritionsource/what-should-you-eat/protein/

http://journal.diabetes.org/diabetesspectrum/00v13n3/pg132.htm

http://www.healthguidance.org/entry/4298/1/Eat-Healthy-Without-Meat.html

http://vegetarian.about.com/od/healthnutrition/tp/protein.htm

Posted 1 year ago #
JoB
Member Profile

Dufus...

Carnatine is just one example of a nutrient found primarily in meat...

do you have any idea how many avocados you would have to eat to equal the carnitine in one small serving of steak? I do :(

http://www.umm.edu/altmed/articles/carnitine-l-000291.htm

Posted 1 year ago #

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