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1. breanna43
   Member Profile

   Gross. Please stay out of West Seattle. We really don't want registered sex offenders here. Thanks.

   Posted 2 years ago #         

2. goodgraces
   Member Profile

   Wow, I find this shockingly intolerant. Is she supposed to be a pariah for life, after having served her time in jail and MARRYING and HAVING CHILDREN with the person with whom she had the now-infamous affair?

   They are legally wed -- don't know why you put the word husband in quotation marks.

   Posted 2 years ago #         

3. bluebird
   Member Profile

   Are you going to list the 2 dozens others by name, who actually live in WS (and report their daily whereabouts)? I'm not sure whether I'd mind, just curious.

   Posted 2 years ago #         

4. JanS
   Member Profile

   

   goodgraces...I agree. I think that if one doesn't like who is appearing somewhere, then one should spend their money somewhere else.

   And for the record,Breanna, we have quite a few registered sex offenders in West Seattle...they're just hidden..now those you might worry about..

   http://www.icrimewatch.net/index.php?AgencyID=54473&disc=

   Posted 2 years ago #         

5. HunterG
   Member Profile

   

   I think this post should be renamed:

   RANT - intolerant people at the Feedback Lounge tonight!!

   Posted 2 years ago #         

6. OlMom
   Member Profile

   

   Good old West Seattle Blog. Everyone is wonderful and we should accept all. I think the first word of breanna's post sums it up - Gross. Mary Kay is trading off her crimes for profit and fame. It is downright icky and anyone who goes to see the "Hot for Teacher" also fall into the icky category.

   Posted 2 years ago #         

7. breanna43
   Member Profile

   I put "husband" in question marks because I THINK IT'S DISGUSTING that she would take formal step to wed the 13 YEAR OLD BOY SHE MOLESTED, when he became legal.

   I am actually very tolerant...of everyone except for those who hurt children. This lady NOT ONLY molested and stole the childhood of him, SHE LEFT 4 KIDS BEHIND IN ALASKA.

   Something tells me if it had been YOUR 13 year old son, you wouldn't be defending her, even IF she had compeleted her jail time.

   Posted 2 years ago #         

8. JenV
   Member Profile

   

   regardless of how you feel about her, she has the right to go into an adult establishment. It's not like she was hanging out with a group of boy scouts....

   Posted 2 years ago #         

9. hopey
   Member Profile

   

   I don't normally jump into these kinds of charged topics, but I gotta say I agree with this one... to a point.

   I agree with GROSS. Some things are both crimes and social taboos for a reason. As someone else noted, she left four kids (and presumably also the father of those kids) behind in Alaska. She did something despicable, society judged her for it, and instead of walking away and taking the time to figure out why she desired to have a sexual relationship with a child, she married him. To me, that indicates a person who is either unstable or not very bright.

   She does still have the right to go wherever she chooses. However, she also must endure the repercussions of the choices she made as an adult who was also a teacher. Our society places a social stigma on those who prey on children -- rightfully so, in my opinion.

   If we were talking about a man who preyed on boys, I don't think there would be any disagreement with the knee-jerk reaction of GROSS. But because she was able to wait for and marry the child she preyed on, we're somehow supposed to ignore her crime? I think not.

   I don't deny she has a right to go places and do whatever she chooses. She absolutely does. But I do not have to pretend I'm okay with what she's done, either. I wouldn't ever harass her if I saw her in public, but I do still hold an opinion about her actions and choices.

   She has a right to her life as a free adult, and other adults (myself included) have a right to express their opinions.

   Oh, and to goodgraces: it's not an "affair" when the person you're pursuing is a child in your classroom. That is a CRIME and she was convicted of it.

   Posted 2 years ago #         

10. JoB
    Member Profile

    OlMom...

    is she still trading on her notoriety?

    btw.. that's not a comment but an honest to god question. She interests me so little that i really don't know...

    i confess that i probably wouldn't recognize her even if she introduced herself as Mary Kay...

    breanna43...

    i am afraid that the parents of that 13 year old boy have since found themselves in a most awkward position...

    I feel for them and for the children who may never be able to escape the spotlight Mary Kay placed on them by her actions...

    it would be so much easier if doing the time to pay for your crime really was the full cost...

    it's not.. i suspect not even for Mary Kay.

    Posted 2 years ago #         

11. Jiggers
    Member Profile

    

    I wish I was that lucky to have a hot teacher teach me a few things when I was younger...lol

    Posted 2 years ago #         

12. JoB
    Member Profile

    jiggers...

    molestation is highly over-rated.. generally by those who molest.

    Posted 2 years ago #         

13. Irukandji
    Member Profile

    

    Adult women who sexually groom and predate children: ack. Once MK's victim/husband becomes an independent and mature man, he may see his history differently. Time will tell. He has been spared the turmoil of discovering age-appropriate sexuality, a carefree college experience, the emotional and social growth that comes with growing up.

    That said, the children of this emotionally and perhaps psychologically disordered woman are the ones who are stuck mopping up the mess she made.

    Posted 2 years ago #         

14. Cait
    Member Profile

    

    And this is why they should ban straight marriage.

    Kidding.

    Posted 2 years ago #         

15. JoB
    Member Profile

    Cait...

    this is just a turnaround of the age old marriage makes it right when older men make wives of young girls...

    and of marriage making it right when accidental pregnancy occurs...

    marriage should mean more...

    Posted 2 years ago #         

16. oddreality
    Member Profile

    I am much more concerned about the sex predator listed on that website that apparently lives on my block ! Matter of fact he just walked down the alley. Too bad the site does not say what level he is [like they do the others] or when and what happened [like they do the others]

    Posted 2 years ago #         

17. Cait
    Member Profile

    

    JoB - AMEN! It's just sad what it's become.

    Posted 2 years ago #         

18. lazybeard
    Member Profile

    

    bluebird & oddreality both bring up good points, there are much greater/worse sex predators within our own area than to worry about Mary Kay Letourneau. Who cares about these two? She did her time in jail and she's paid the price.

    As for her leaving her family in Alaska? The crime was committed in Seattle, she was living with her family in Seattle. It wasn't until she divorced did her ex-husband move with their children to Alaska.

    Posted 2 years ago #         

19. hopey
    Member Profile

    

    Why is it "intolerant" to say that I find it abhorrent and disgusting that a teacher would molest a child and later marry him? What, exactly, am I being intolerant of?

    This is a sincere question, because I cannot correct my "intolerance" unless I understand it.

    Posted 2 years ago #         

20. OlMom
    Member Profile

    

    I did not see anything officially about Mary Kay at the Feedback Lounge but there was an article about her at another nightclub http://blog.seattlepi.com/thebigblog/archives/169396.asp
    I think calling it "Hot for Teacher" is trading off her crime. While some call it intolerant. I think a convicted rapist doing such is abhorrent. You are free to choose to patronize her and her husband if you wish.

    Posted 2 years ago #         

21. CountingCoup
    Member Profile

    

    Some of us believe in something that is foreign to the keyboard warriors sitting at home passing judgment in a public forum to those they personally know nothing about.

    That is RESPECT for the privacy of others who are not invading upon your rights in any way, and here is something else you might find too tough to fathom, and that is REHABILITATION for those who have paid their dues and are just trying to live a good life.

    Posted 2 years ago #         

22. hopey
    Member Profile

    

    in⋅fa⋅my
    [in-fuh-mee]
    –noun, plural -mies for 3.
    1. extremely bad reputation, public reproach, or strong condemnation as the result of a shameful, criminal, or outrageous act: a time that will live in infamy.
    2. infamous character or conduct.
    3. an infamous act or circumstance.
    4. Law. loss of rights, incurred by conviction of an infamous offense.

    Please notice especially #4, loss of rights due to having been convicted of an infamous offense.

    She is who she is, she has done what she has done. Most of society finds her actions particularly repugnant and repulsive. As I said above, I would never say anything negative or unpleasant to her face. But I will not pretend that I can ignore the actions and choices she has made in her life.

    We are all judged by our past actions and behaviors, whether we like that judgment or not. Fortunately, few of us must bear such public judgment. Unfortuately, Mary Kay Letorneau does, due to her own choices and free will as an adult.

    Posted 2 years ago #         

23. CountingCoup
    Member Profile

    

    "As I said above, I would never say anything negative or unpleasant to her face. But I will not pretend that I can ignore the actions and choices she has made in her life."

    I find this incredibly cowardly and hypocritical at the same time. You won't say it to her or her families face, but you will say it too a whole community behind a keyboard behind her back?

    What is your point? Do you believe you are swaying minds? Making a positive impact in our community? Keeping us safe?

    I cannot find any positive, beautiful, mind inspiring statement in your bashing of someone who hasn't harmed you in any way...

    Posted 2 years ago #         

24. hopey
    Member Profile

    

    And are you swaying any minds, CountingCoup?

    She is a public figure. She has made herself a public figure, as that Seattle PI article linked above makes very clear. People have opinions about public figures, and sometimes choose to express them in public. That is what is happening in this thread.

    If I told you I would say something to her face, then you would criticize me for invading her privacy and insulting her. That's a baiting, no-win "question" you've posed there. Not exactly a fair way to sway minds.

    And yes, I do think an important part of keeping children safe is discussing people who groom young children for sexual relationships, rape children, are convicted and sent to jail, but show no repentance for their crime after having served their time.

    If keeping this woman's crime in the spotlight means one parent becomes more bold and speaks up about something they see happening at their school -- something that smacks of teacher/student impropriety, but they weren't sure it really 'crossed the line' -- then that is making a positive impact in the community. Maybe a teacher somewhere will get reprimanded or moved to different school or maybe even get psychological help. Maybe another child will be spared the same kind of infamous fate.

    And besides, what alternate reality do you live in where everyone always speaks in "positive, beautiful, mind inspiring" ways? I live in what I believe is the real world, and it's pretty ugly sometimes. I'm a realist. Life's like that.

    Posted 2 years ago #         

25. JoB
    Member Profile

    counting coup...

    i would say to her face what i write here...

    by choosing to capitalize on her 15 minutes of fame.. she has given up her right to privacy...

    making a joke of molesting a child isn't funny... not even when the child goes along with it to promote his own career.

    sexually manipulating a child for your own gain is a crime that lasts long past sexual encounters... as evidenced by the poor life choices made by many victims.

    if you believe that speaking out against child molesters is judgmental.. then.. you are right. i am judgmental. I only wish more people were.

    Posted 2 years ago #         

26. CountingCoup
    Member Profile

    

    I'm not trying to sway minds. I am not the one calling by name someone out.

    If you feel confronting somebody you know nothing about, on what you read or watch on the news for their misfortunes, by all means go ahead...

    The world is your playground.

    To say you wish people are more like yourself because you admit your judgmental is just mean and nasty.

    Good luck with your moral crusade folks...

    Posted 2 years ago #         

27. goodgraces
    Member Profile

    CountingCoup may not be trying to sway minds, but s/he is affecting mine (in a good way). I agree with his/her POV and think it would benefit humanity if more people took this same stance.

    I will say no more on this topic now!

    Posted 2 years ago #         

28. swimcat
    Member Profile

    Hopey and JoB, I couldn't agree more. You said things better than I could so I won't even try to add anything.

    Posted 2 years ago #         

29. JoB
    Member Profile

    counting coup...

    if people don't speak out for kids .. who will?

    do you think the dirty little secret will just go away and those nice predators will leave children alone?

    not likely.

    sexual predation destroys the self esteem of those who experience it and if nothing else... that alone negatively impacts their lives.

    the impact gets worse from there...

    It's amazing how much anti-social behavior could be eliminated by protecting children from sexual predators...

    and you wonder why i wouldn't want someone to bask in the 15 minutes of fame they gained by molesting a child... glorifying their crime?

    Posted 2 years ago #         

30. JenV
    Member Profile

    

    oh fer crissakes. She did her time, and she is just trying to live her life. Maybe you'd all prefer that we stone her to death, even though she's served her time?

    bottom line, she did what she did - and it was wrong. but she has served her time, and that doesn't give anyone the right to deny her the right to live her life. If she were putting herself in a position now where she was endangering children, this would be different. But she's not - she went into a bar. Get over it.

    Posted 2 years ago #         

31. JoB
    Member Profile

    JenV...

    no i wouldn't prefer we stone her to death...

    but i would prefer that all criminals were prohibited for the rest of their lives from benefiting from their crimes...

    especially from crimes against children.

    Posted 2 years ago #         

32. JenV
    Member Profile

    

    granted that her "Hot for Teacher" night is in poor taste, but this isn't about that. She was just IN the bar, and that offended the original poster, that MKL should dare show her face outside her home.

    If there are laws against her profiting from her situation, it is not up to us as citizens to enforce them, or to enforce what laws certain people wish there were. I have no idea what the laws are in regard to this, or if there are any- but since she hasn't been shut down from profiting mightily from all this yet, chances are she wont be.

    Posted 2 years ago #         

33. JoB
    Member Profile

    JenV...

    these are laws that clearly need to be changed... but it takes a change in public opinion to change laws...

    Mary Kay and her husband are currently earning money by taking their act to Seattle night clubs... an act that capitalizes on "forbidden love" ... their appearance was as likely a scouting mission as a night out...

    for a quick look at the career she and her young husband have built on her crime...

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mary_Kay_Latourneau

    Forbidden love sounds so much better than having sex with one of your students.. doesn't it?

    Posted 2 years ago #         

34. JenV
    Member Profile

    

    rein it in there, JoB - I am not defending her crime, I am not defending her having taken advantage of a child - so get off your soapbox. I am defending the fact that she served her time, went into a bar with adults, and someone was offended by that.

    Trust me, I know about the career she's built, the TV movies, etc ad nauseum. Who from here doesn't know? But if she wants to go into a bar and have a drink - who are you or anyone else to tell her no? I bet people are elbow to elbow with far worse registered sex offenders every day and don't even know it. She has notoriety, and that is the reason she is singled out here. All I am trying to say is what I have said over and over in my last few posts...and someone trying to beat me over the head with their own agenda isn't going to change my mind.

    Posted 2 years ago #         

35. bluebird
    Member Profile

    "She has notoriety, and that is the reason she is singled out here."

    That was my question. Why is okay to report her whereabouts and not every other registered offender? It seems she's solely interested in Villi, not children in general like most sex offenders. If she is a danger to anyone, it is him and they have worked that out with each other, his parent, her kids that have moved in with them, and the judge who granted them permission to have the no contact order removed.

    I don't condone all of this either, but as she is not a risk to society, when does it stop being our business? She has served her time and justice has been done. We are a nation of laws and hopefully of rehabilitation and second chances.

    Posted 2 years ago #         

36. flowerpetal
    Member Profile

    

    I don't give a flip that MKL was at Feedback with her husband; and I don't think I would have posted that here. What I do care about is that she is a level II sex offender with a moderate probability of reoffending. I don't know how that is determined but it is something I listen to.
    When a child is hurt by molestation; we are all hurt whether we have a close connection to that child or not.
    I didn't look at the hot-for-teacher links, I thought it might make me wretch. What disturbs me more than MLK is that there would be an audience for this vile "entertainment." Who are these people?

    Posted 2 years ago #         

37. Jiggers
    Member Profile

    

    If it was a 45 year old man/teacher getting it on with his 15 year old student, he'd still be in jail.

    Posted 2 years ago #         

38. bluebird
    Member Profile

    I don't think he'd still be in jail. 7 and a half years is the max sentence for this offense regardless of gender, and she served that. He would be looked at with a lot more scorn than a female is. Should he be?

    Are there different circumstances that should be factored in when evaluating sex crimes? We do that already with age differences (15&19 vs 15&45), but not consistently in every state.

    Is this situation different than someone who serially abducts and abuses a different child every day? Is it worse?

    I found it interesting, when looking into sentencing guidelines, that incest is a lessor crime, legally. To me, that should be reversed. It's a higher level of abuse of trust in my mind. And in some cases the sentence guidelines are only 2 years compared to the 7 and a half that Mary got.

    I guess my feeling is, there are a lot of gray areas and to speak in absolutes is not possible, for me at least. And in this case, I would not announce by name and place, someone who is having a drink with their legal spouse, whether I approved or not.

    Posted 2 years ago #         

39. JoB
    Member Profile

    bluebird...

    the assumption is that Mary Kay was doing nothing to call attention to herself when she was noticed in the feedback lounge having a drink with her husband. That might be true... it might not.

    i don't care much where she drinks.. i wouldn't know her if i saw her...

    but i do care that she is making money off the notoriety she gained by having sex with her 13 year old student... and having sex with him again after being sentenced for child rape...

    he claims to have had sex with her over 300 times... this wasn't just a mistake on her part, it was a pattern that she continued even after she was sentenced and given community service.

    I don't see any gray areas when it comes to adults indulging in sex with children... no matter how "sexually mature" they may be... or how "tempted" a parent, sibling, or step parent was "by them".

    It's a real eye opener to look at pictures of the children who "sexually tempted" most predators.. they are children .. and this kid really wasn't an exception to that rule.

    I think it is a real travesty that there are separate sentencing guidelines for incest.. and that incest is seen as the lesser charge...

    We have come a long way in acknowledging our society's dirty little secret and protecting children from that kind of abuse ... but we still need to do a lot more.

    Laws equalizing penalties for child sexual abuse, requiring sexual predation therapy as a condition of release and making it illegal to profit financially from the commission of sexual predation crimes would be a good place to start...

    Posted 2 years ago #         

40. bluebird
    Member Profile

    All of that is worth considering, JoB. But maybe belongs in more than one discussion. The issues you bring up specifically about Mary don't really belong in this topic. Speak out about the Hot for Teacher event when it was applicable. A lot of people did, both in the local news forums and when it made national news.

    Advocate for children always. That should go without saying.

    But a verbal stoning for having a drink in public, which is all the information we have about this outing, doesn't seem like an appropriate way of handling things. It seems to me more like an emotional way of handling things.

    I saw the whole family grocery shopping at the Roxbury Safeway before. Mary, Villi, and the kids. Should I have run right home to publish that information online for all the world to see? Would I even consider the idea if she had been convicted of any other type felony?

    I can be disgusted in my own head, and advocate for the protection of children all day long, but I still don't think it's ok to report her activities. This leads to the type of vigilante events like burning down the houses of registered offenders (happened in Lynnwood). Maybe that's what they deserve in your mind, but then we have to understand also, why someone can feel compelled to kill an abortion doctor who was NOT breaking the law.

    Mary is NOT breaking the law. Not violating the terms of her probation, and has served her sentence. How we feel about her, should be irrelevant.

    Posted 2 years ago #         

41. JoB
    Member Profile

    bluebird..

    i don't think anyone deserves to have their house burnt down... registered sex offender or not...

    i don't believe in vigilante justice... nor would i say anything to her or any other sex offender who didn't bring themselves to my attention...

    but i do believe in taking the opportunity to have this kind of conversation when it appears... because changing public opinion is the only way to change laws...

    and i really believe the laws need to be changed.

    People like MaryKay romanticize predatory behavior for their own financial gain... making that behavior somehow more acceptable to our society as a whole... and that's not a good thing for children.

    She makes how we feel about her relevant by promoting herself as some kind of cult hero.

    She could have as easily chosen the anonymity you feel we should grant her. This discussion is only possible because she didn't.

    Posted 2 years ago #         

42. HMC Rich
    Member Profile

    

    Wow, Vili is old enough to drink? She is still with him or vice versa? Is this a modern day Shakespeare story for the future or a Stephen King short story?

    Having a drink when your of legal age is not a crime. Like JenV said, she did the time.

    Funny thing about morality, when it is on your side it seems proper. When it is on the other side it seems confining to some.

    I still can't get the Van Halen video out of my head.
    Got it made...
    Got it made...
    Got it made...
    I'm Hot for Teacher....

    Love that song. Too bad it happens in real life way too often.

    Leave them alone. They are now both consenting adults. What happened was wrong but it did happen. I have always felt terrible for the first husband and four kids. They were the victims in my opinion.

    Posted 2 years ago #         

43. SEG
    Member Profile

    Just FYI... Feedback did NOT have a hot for teacher night. My freind works there and didn't know anything about them. So maybe they just went in there for a drink. Who cares?!

    Posted 2 years ago #         

44. rykrite
    Member Profile

    To me, the reason she is being singled out is that not only did she commit a heinous crime (I am a mother, and an ex-teacher, and I can't even IMAGINE what she did) and pay the time, but now she's capitalizing on it.

    This thread is not about a woman who is attempting to move on with her life and fade from the public view. This is about a woman who a celebrity by virtue of being a child rapist and all that followed, and she is capitalizing on that. "Hot for teacher" isn't even 1% funny in this context. I don't care (much) if they go to a bar together, but sponsoring "Hot for Teacher" night is disgusting.

    They had t-shirts printed, they're flaunting what they did. And I find it very offensive....and open to public address, given how public they are being.

    I'm offended, and I wouldn't let any child I loved near her, and I feel terrifically sorry for her husband, ex-husband, and the children of both unions. I won't have her stoned, but I do not mind commenting that I believe that capitalizing on her crime through a "Hot For Teacher" event is, at best, in extraordinarily poor taste.

    And yes, I look at the sex offender list periodically, and try to memorize faces so that I can help keep my family safe.

    Posted 2 years ago #         

45. SKB
    Member Profile

    Before people post rants about local businesses, perhaps they should get their facts straight. The Feedback Lounge did NOT have this event and, to quote one of the owners, they feel it would be "crass" to do such a thing. If the couple happened to pop in for a drink, that's something nobody has any control over - but to everyone elses knowledge, that was not the case either.

    Posted 2 years ago #         

46. JoB
    Member Profile

    SKB...

    i am really glad to hear the feedback lounge thinks a hot teacher night featuring Mary Kay would be crass.. i agree.

    Posted 2 years ago #         

47. saddleshoes15
    Member Profile

    Well aren


    w

    s our guilt and shame that we put on ourselves that make our lives a living hell.MaryKay has done her time with the man made laws that prohibit sexual conduct with minors.We have made her the poster child for her being a sexual predator.Do you really fear for your children that MaryKay will show them harm.Predators lust over the young. MaryKay just fell in love with a young boy.A young boy that was getting no attention at home and nobody cared where he was. He was attracted to MaryKay because he found the only person that cared about him.I knew him when he was going through this. He was at my house almost every day and he was starved for attention."He who has not sinned can cast the first stone".

    Posted 2 years ago #         

48. jschu
    Member Profile

    

    I saw her on Regis - I thought she was the heir to Mary Kay cosmetics. Is she a molester?

    Posted 2 years ago #         

49. acemotel
    Member Profile

    

    >>Predators lust over the young.
    >>MaryKay just fell in love with a young boy.

    I really don't care very much about this issue, or think about it, but after reading this thread, I have to ask: what's the difference between these two statements?

    Also, change the sex of the two, and the story takes on a whole new flavor.

    Does anyone have any sympathy and forgiveness for Philip Garido raping Jaycee Dugard when she was 11 and fathering her children when she was 15?

    ......I didn't think so. In his sick and twisted mind, he thought he was "in love" with her. The jackass even wrote "love songs" to children, claiming their innocence "excited" him.

    Adults having sexual contact with children is taboo in our society. Probably in most societies. No amount of excuses, rationalization or denial will change that. Thank God!

    Posted 2 years ago #         

50. JoB
    Member Profile

    My stepfather fell in love with me. He married my mother so he could be with me for the rest of his life.

    He was true to his love.. even after my mother "discovered" he was gratifying that love and divorced him just before i entered high school, he carried a picture of his lover in his wallet till the day he died.

    I was almost 4 when he met me and the picture he carried till his death was of me at the age of 10...

    Mine is such a common story that it ceases to be a sensation... but the only real difference between my stepdad's story and that of Mary Kay is that her "love" interest was about the age of the picture in my stepdad's wallet when she met him.

    Having sex with children has nothing to do with love.. when you love you want what is best for those you love.. not what is best for you.

    Sex with children is predatory behavior and has far more to do with power than anything else.

    far from being a little slap and tickle, sexual abuse of children robs them of far more than their innocence.

    It's a gift that keeps on giving... far beyond adulthood. I still struggle with the effects of my stepdad's "forbidden love".

    Children who are abused have more recourse than i did nearly 60 years ago when my stepdad first demonstrated his love of me, but as long as we romanticize the sexual abuse of children, there will continue to be too many children who live their lives in the shadow of that abuse.

    Sexual predation isn't romantic and it isn't a joke... at least not to those who experience it.

    Posted 2 years ago #         

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