West Seattle Blog...

WSB Forum » Open Discussion

(66 posts)

RANT - Leaving your dog in a frozen car

Started 3 years ago by cjboffoli
Latest reply from flowerpetal

cjboffoli
Member Profile

To the person who decided it was OK to leave your dog locked inside your frozen car on California while you were inside by the fire at Matador. It's 23 degrees outside. Wouldn't you have been better off leaving the dog at home?

Posted 3 years ago #
mellaw6565
Member Profile

I can't wait to find that person so I can slap the crap out of them! Idiot!

Posted 3 years ago #
cjboffoli
Member Profile

The poor dog looked pretty distressed. It had a plastic baggie hanging out of its mouth. Looked like it was chewing nervously on something.

Posted 3 years ago #
mellaw6565
Member Profile

I wonder if the police would do anything about it.

Posted 3 years ago #
cjboffoli
Member Profile

Yeah, I was wondering about that too. I feel bad doing nothing. But about 30 minutes have passed now since I saw this and the person could very well have already left. I thought it was a Subaru at first but I looked closer and it is a light blue Toyota. WA plate 358 VZM

Posted 3 years ago #
mellaw6565
Member Profile

Let's hope they've headed home by now - if I was closer I'd check but I've been out in this all day and I'm beat. Poor dog!

Posted 3 years ago #
cjboffoli
Member Profile

I only live a couple of blocks away but it is actually very fatiguing walking in deep snow. I was up there in the vicinity shooting pictures for at least 15 minutes and never saw anyone come out to the car to check on the dog. I saw a lot of behavior out there tonight, this included, that was really disappointing.

Posted 3 years ago #
mellaw6565
Member Profile

Me too - the snow has really brought out the stupidity in people.

Posted 3 years ago #
Traci
Member Profile

:(

People suck SO MUCH sometimes.

Posted 3 years ago #
JanS
Member Profile

cold weather and snow causes the smart brain cells to freeze, and leaves the stoopid ones active.

WTF were they thinking? Besides...just stay home on a night like tonight...learn how to cook your own food, make your own drinks...how damned difficult could that possibly be?

And tomorrow that dog will still love it's owner ...wish that it could just turn on them just a little bit (an ankle, not a neck - lol)

reminds me...about a toast...maybe we should toast this person:

The Travellers' Curse after Misdirection

(from the Welsh)

May they stumble, stage by stage
On an endless Pilgrimage
Dawn and dusk, mile after mile
At each and every step a stile
At each and every step withal
May they catch their feet and fall
At each and every fall they take
May a bone within them break
And may the bone that breaks within
Not be, for variations sake
Now rib, now thigh, now arm, now shin
but always, without fail, the NECK

Robert Graves

well, not a toast....but fitting...

Posted 3 years ago #
JoB
Member Profile

Sometimes things are not what they seem...

i don't know how long the owner was in the matador.. but the hood of the car shows snow melt from the engine and i don't see any glistening ice around the edges ...

so maybe not so long.

the plastic bag is a very bad thing though.

some dogs will get into anything and it is not smart to leave a plastic bag where they can find it... even if it is buried in a garbage container with a spring loaded lid...

i say this from experience...

my dogs really are safer in the car when i go out than they are at home because it is easier to control the environment in the car...

But i do agree that a cold car is as dangerous to our pets as a hot one.. and everyone should be more careful.

Posted 3 years ago #
sassy
Member Profile

I cannot convey how much this angers + frustrates me. Where is the common sense?

We were having lunch at Elliot Bay on Thursday - and a sweet Sheperd dog was tied up outside for over 20 minutes. I went to say hi to him when we left, and he was shivering. Out in the cold - standing on cement covered in ice.

How stupid can you be?

Posted 3 years ago #
JimmyG
Member Profile

Call Seattle Animal Control and report it.
They've been very responsive to me on following up on situations like this.
You have the photo, plate, everything SAC needs for you to file a complaint.

Posted 3 years ago #
cjboffoli
Member Profile

JoB: I hear what you're saying but I'm not sure I agree. No matter how warm the interior of the car is while you're driving, it gets very cold as soon as you turn the engine off. All that glass and metal are wonderful conductors of cold. Even if you argue the dog has a fur coat, with the wind chill last night that person was taking a real chance leaving their animal in an unheated space for that long. And that goes for people tying up their dogs outside in the freezing cold too. Dogs can be just as susceptible as humans to hypothermia and frostbite.

Posted 3 years ago #
mrhineh
Member Profile

"Hypothermia occurs when an animal cannot keep its body temperature from falling below the normal 101 F to 102 F. This is a serious condition and can result in death. Pets should stay indoors during extreme weather conditions. If the temperature falls below 20 F, it is too cold for most pets to be outside. Also, pets that are very young, thin, old or ill will have an even harder time tolerating cold weather and should be kept indoors as much as possible."
http://www.parade.com/pets/pet-chat/archive/when-is-it-too-cold-to-leave-my-dog-outside.html

Some say below 20, some say below 40. Depends on breed, size and age.

Posted 3 years ago #
guidosmom
Member Profile

SO Sad. :( We saw a lab tied outside of Shadowland on Friday night. The poor dog looked COLD, and I really hope the owner just ran in quickly. As we drove away it was being walked away, hopefully it hadn't been out long.

Posted 3 years ago #
mrhineh
Member Profile

BTW, how did you know that they were by the fire at Matador? Guess??

Posted 3 years ago #
Cait
Member Profile

That dog needs a good cuddle :( I would have busted the window open and taken it home with me to sit by the fire. :(

Posted 3 years ago #
cjboffoli
Member Profile

They were parked just outside of Matador and it was the only thing open on that side of the block.

Posted 3 years ago #
mrhineh
Member Profile

So you are guessing. Why not go inside and and bust on them, instead of here?

Posted 3 years ago #
Cait
Member Profile

Generally confronting someone dumb enough to do this ends badly. If you're cruel enough to leave your dog in the car, who knows how they'd react. I think you did the right thing - I just hope someone called the authorities.

Posted 3 years ago #
mellaw6565
Member Profile

Ok Mr. Hiney - thanks for the advice. Geez......

Posted 3 years ago #
JoB
Member Profile

i have to report that i left my two shibas in the minivan in the junction for nearly 45 minutes today.

when i returned they were curled up sleeping and their body heat had kept the car warmer than outside.. it was still well above 30 degrees.

I admit, these two have arctic coats and spitz tails to bury their noses in.. much the same as wearing a fur lined parka hood...

but still...

they were warmer than i was...

we did walk them first.. and we returned to the car to sit with them while we waited for my daughter to finish visiting her friend...

but they were in the car alone..

and i am quite sure someone probably thought we were monsters if they noticed the dogs.

This is one of those things that really is an individual judgment call... but when you have dogs like mine who prefer the snow... it's an easy one to make.

Not all breeds would do as well.

But generally speaking if you are the kind of person who takes their dog with you, you are also likely to be very aware of their environment...

i would never leave my dog unattended outside.. in any weather. I wouldn't trust strangers not to feed my dog something harmful.. or turn it loose.. or....

That's why they are always safely locked in the car.

Posted 3 years ago #
mrhineh
Member Profile

Right, so posting their photo, car license and all is the way to handle it. Then accuse and talk trash about them without them being able to defend their actions. Maybe they were visiting the offices above Matador. Ready! Fire! Aim!

Talk about passive agressive!!

Posted 3 years ago #
mrhineh
Member Profile

Cait, do you think JoB is cruel?

Posted 3 years ago #
Kayleigh2
Member Profile

Mr. H, do you have a problem with cjboffoli personally? I don't think he deserves the pot shots you're taking.

Posted 3 years ago #
cjboffoli
Member Profile

Kayleigh2: I think everyone is quickly learning that with this guy a policy of not feeding the troll is probably the best way to go. I learned a long time ago that complete strangers who dislike you for the wrong reasons are the ones you never have to worry about.

I find that the "Ignore" feature is marvelous.

Posted 3 years ago #
mrhineh
Member Profile

Oh, cj, you have no problem taking potshots at other people you don't know. I am not teflon, and neither are you. My plug is why is it so much fun on these blogs to rip into other people who can't defend their actions, but its ok to rip posters who defend them.

Cheers (just for you Zen)

Posted 3 years ago #
Anonymous
Member Profile

Wind chill factor is not relevant to the dog that was inside the car (assuming the windows were closed) because the dog was protected from the wind. Temperature is relevant.

Depending on whether or not and how the Standard Poodle was clipped, it could have been comfortable for some unknown (to me... perhaps known by his owner) period of time. The Poodle was developed originally to be a water retriever.

Posted 3 years ago #
Cait
Member Profile

Well as someone whose dog gets to (has to?) stay at home when I run errands, it's not something I would do. However, like she said, her doggies had a buddy to keep them warm. But from the looks of this picture the dog was distressed and judging from the icicles it had been there a while.

I think it's pretty obvious Jo knows it's not an ideal situation but I'm not going to help you fuel what seems to be a personal vendetta against Christopher. No one should leave their dogs in their car in this weather but if you should have to, make sure they have a way to keep warm and something to do while they're in there. And don't leave them for very long.

Posted 3 years ago #
cjboffoli
Member Profile

Scott: The windows were indeed up. But you're telling me that if this car were sitting in the sun on a 100 degree day with no wind, that it would feel exactly the same in the car if it were a 100 degree day with a 50 mph wind? If you're right you could be on to something big. ;-) Just think...the laws of thermodynamics upended right here on the WSB!

JoB: I accept your point about different dog breeds being better equipped for cold. And there was certainly a difference in temperature between midnight last night and mid afternoon today. I know you to be an intelligent, conscientious person. I have no doubts you care for your pets well. But there are clearly people out there that perhaps don't value their animals as you do. I suppose it all comes down to a choice. I personally would not leave an animal unattended in a car in extreme (very hot or very cold) conditions.

Posted 3 years ago #
JoB
Member Profile

cj.. scott is right.. the wind chill doesn't matter as much inside the car as it does out.. unless you don't have a tight car with closed windows.. then it could matter.

cait.. there were icicles on the bumper but they could easily have been there from being parked before the car was driven... especially if the car was driven only on city streets. the hood was cleared in a way that would indicate melt from a hot engine and there was no visible ice around the perimeter... so my guess would be that it hadn't been there long... but it's all just a guess.

If the dog is still actively moving around there isn't generally much to worry about as far a temp goes... not always true.. but mostly.

as for a poodle's coat...

poodles have coats that are more like human hair and less like a dog coat.. especially less like dogs that have double coats like my shibas or labs for that matter...so even without a poodle cut, it is likely to get cold faster than some... it wouldn't be as easy to leave them in a car in the cold for any length of time.

my dogs could be kenneled outside in the snow and as long as they have a doghouse, they would be fine. i know because the younger was kenneled outside in rural minnesota before he came to live with me and it gets really cold there...

There are so many factors that go into how safe it is for pets to be left in cars in any weather... i have to be extra careful for mine in the heat...

I hope for the pup's sake that his owner was in picking up food.. they do feed people there...

that said... leaving your dog in the car while you drink in the pub is irresponsible in any weather...

and so easily avoided if you drink at the Beveridge Place Pub where your well behaved dog is welcomed:)

btw.. for those who wonder.. i learned a lot about pet safety in cold weather during 5 cold winters minnesota... it was often below 0.

yes.. if it is cold enough, you can throw a hot cup of coffee in the air and watch it freeze before it hits the ground.

Posted 3 years ago #
Cait
Member Profile

I'm hopin' you're right JoB - it'll make me feel better :)

Posted 3 years ago #
mrhineh
Member Profile

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=urPngC2dNQ4&feature=related

LOL! That is always amazing when you throw boiling water into the air in cold weather.

Posted 3 years ago #
JoB
Member Profile

cait...

i would worry far more about the plastic dangling from the poodle's mouth.

since it's unlikely any pet owner would give his dog a plastic bag to play with.. the fact that the dog had the bag probably indicates that the owner doesn't leave this dog home alone uncrated... too much mischief... I would bet they don't leave it alone in the car too long either:)

however, plastic bags are as deadly for dogs as they are for children. Besides the choking hazard.. they can easily turn into a bowel obstruction... and that can kill.

cj...

i too worry about those who don't take good care of their pets.. but i am not sure that i always have enough info to make a judgment...

That said...

it is good to remind people that cold weather is potentially as dangerous as hot for dogs left in cars...

and maybe to remind people that their best friends are typically curious creatures.. so anything they don't think is safe for their pets should be carefully locked away where they can't get to it...

Posted 3 years ago #
austin
Member Profile

This is really off topic sorta but the other day on the way to the bus stop I passed a car that had a door open (?!). Some neighborhood kitties had taken up residence on the back seat and dash. I thought it was funny. That is all.

Posted 3 years ago #
cjboffoli
Member Profile

JoB: The reason the wind IS indeed relevant is that it is acting on the surfaces of the car. Cars have windows on all sides and glass is an excellent conductor of heat. Any body heat radiated into the passenger compartment by that single dog would be wicked away by the cold acting on the glass from the outside. As the wind blows over the car this process is accelerated. It was very gusty last night. But even without the wind 23 degrees for a dog in an unheated car is cold. And it doesn't take very much poking around on the web to find opinions from vets that concur with this.

I'm not so sure that movement has anything to do with representing the dog's level of comfort or stress. However, the dog was not vocal or excited and didn't show any outward signs of panic.

I spent 20 winters in the frigid temperatures of New England (four of them in Northern NH) and leaving domestic pets (we're not talking sled dogs here) in cars in extreme temps was simply something that was never done.

And driving your car home after a night drinking at the pub is probably a bad idea with or without a dog in the car ;-)

Posted 3 years ago #
JoB
Member Profile

cj..

"driving your car home after a night drinking at the pub is probably a bad idea with or without a dog in the car ;-)"

we can definately agree on that!

Posted 3 years ago #
Anonymous
Member Profile

cjboffoli:
"...you're telling me that if this car were sitting in the sun on a 100 degree day with no wind, that it would feel exactly the same in the car if it were a 100 degree day with a 50 mph wind?"

No.

Your point about wind carrying away heat from an inanimate object is valid (you may be overestimating the effect) but that is not the same thing as the wind chill factor.

Wind chill factor is basically a chart that has wind speed on one axis and temperature on the other axis. It indicates the effect *on exposed human flesh* that wind at different speeds has.

Regarding the Standard Poodle in the car: The wind is not acting directly on the dog, so I suspect the dog is not affected so much as it would be if it were exposed directly to the wind.

P.S. I didn't leave my dogs in the car during the middle of the day yesterday when I was inside various stores. My dogs are not suitable for winter weather, so they were safely at home. I agree that during these temperatures, it cools off very quickly inside the car. The *engine* cools off pretty quickly. :(

Posted 3 years ago #
UrbanFabulous
Member Profile

My man and I went to the Alki Cafe the other morning and a poor dog was sitting in the snow shivering. We mentioned it to the waitress and she said she didn't know whose it was. About 45 minutes later we saw some guy in $200 jeans come out and get him.

Posted 3 years ago #
JoB
Member Profile

UrbanFabulous...

i bet it was an expensive dog too...

careless man.

Posted 3 years ago #
rykrite
Member Profile

My dog is curled up on his dog bed beside me right now. Today he was mad at us when we went for a walk without him, but we went to EBB and I didn't want to leave him tied up outside in this weather. (In "regular" weather e.g. not too hot and not too cold, I tie him up for short periods outside of shops with great regularity. I sometimes watch out coffee shop windows to see what's going on, and what is going on is that he is getting pets from every single passer by. He still manages to look lonely when I come out, however! (He does the same if I go into another room for a few minutes and then return.)
.
I don't want to judge the dog in the car here because i dont' know the story and the fact that the engine area was still melted makes me hope that the owner was just running in somewhere. In general, I wouldn't leave a dog in a car in this weather for more than a few minutes.

Posted 3 years ago #
Cait
Member Profile

I love how dogs can be so crafty when it comes to getting attention. Getting pets all night long and then looking forlorn so he can get more pets later. Smart :)

Posted 3 years ago #
rykrite
Member Profile

Cait, he is smart - in a very goofy way!
.
Some of you may have seen him in the Junction and thereabouts. He has a foot injury (he was hit by a car a year ago - horrible, but we're glad only his foot was injured) and the vet suggested that he should wear dog-boots on rugged ground to protect the damaged foot. Additionally, though he's a lab mix, he gets cold in the snow, so we got him a polarfleece & canvas coat. People actually point out their car windows when they see him going by - a large dog in boots and a coat is not something we see every day, and everyone gets a good chuckle. I've decided to not be embarrassed about it, but I do find myself telling people "It's because he has an injured foot" to avoid saying "I'm not the kind of person who dresses her dog!"
.
But alas, I do dress my dog.
.
In his favor, EVERYONE pets him when he's dressed like that. He's big enough that sometimes people are afraid of him, but when he's wearing boots and a coat, well, they laugh at him more than being afraid at him. He seems to take it good naturedly enough....as long as he keeps getting pets.

Posted 3 years ago #
mellaw6565
Member Profile

JoB - even though you may have experience with leaving your dogs outside in northern climes, it still doesn't make it sound practice any more than leaving your animal in a car in extreme temps.

I would really like to see any evidence, experts or statistics that back up your claim that it is ok to leave your dog in the car when the temp. is under 25 degrees, unless it's only for a few minutes and the car has been heated inside.

Sorry, but I can't agree with you on this one.

Posted 3 years ago #
Zenguy
Member Profile

Cheers to you too Mr. Hiney.

Posted 3 years ago #
fakeface
Member Profile

Why don't you guys enhance this picture, take the plate number down, and make a damm complaint to the police.

Posted 3 years ago #
JoB
Member Profile

mellaw6565

of course i heat my car before i leave my dogs in it in this weather... just like i blast the air frigid before i leave them in the car in the summer...

and if you leave them in the car long enough for their water to freeze.. and you always leave water for them.. it's way too long!

if i had avoided leaving my dogs in the car in freezing weather in Minnesota, they would have been left home from mid november through may... and since i can't leave these two home alone uncrated.. i wouldn't have left the house much all winter.

i drove my dogs cross country alone when i moved here so the dogs would be less stressed... and we stopped at every rest area so they could get out and sniff out the changes as we drove west.

I am exceedingly careful with my dogs... and i assume that most dog owners are as well.

I agree that it is a bad idea to indiscriminately leave dogs in vehicles for long periods of time in any weather.

but i know one lady whose only choice is to use her car as a dog crate while she works... she parks under cover and comes out to exercise him on the hour... and if she is at work today.. he will be in the car outside today.

in general terms.. i would say that's something that really shouldn't be done.. but it is the only way she can keep this dog... and she has thought it out so it works for them.

Another home isn't an option for him since he came from a very bad home and is not adoptable.

Just as in general terms i think it's a bad idea to leave a dog tied up outside.. but Rykite has made it work for her and she cares enough about her dog to make sure his feet are taken care of and he is warm.

I am not advocating abusing dogs at all... and i certainly think that we should all keep their best interests in mind in everything we do if we agree to share our homes with them...

More than once i have tracked an owner down in a store or restaurant when the dog tied outside was in distress... i have called the police when i saw an animal locked in a car in distress... and i have stopped to give countless dogs a friendly word or a pat or water.

but... i think that automatically assuming that the owner of a dog that isn't in distress but is in what we consider to be an unsafe environment is abusive is taking our valid concern too far.

That doesn't stop me from warning people walking their dogs in commercial districts to watch out for deicing compounds because they can be very hard on a dog's foot.. or from asking someone if their dog would like a drink when i see the dog panting and i have water.. or...

and some of the people i have spoken with had no problem telling me what an interfering old busybody i was:)

i think posting the pic and warning that this is not good weather to leave a dog out is a very good thing...

but assuming the owner wasn't being careful of their pet and condemning them without knowing more is maybe not so good...

maybe i have worked with too many abused kids and pets... you have to assume the best intentions and teach them step by step how to add more information to their decision making process to be successful. if you don't.. they just become resentful and at best you just made your job that much harder.

A gentle reminder is so much more likely to be heard than condemnation...

i know :))))) i deserve to be reminded of that regularly...

sometimes there is such a wide gap between what we know and what we do ;~>

Posted 3 years ago #
mrhineh
Member Profile

JoB- post 48

Well put. :)

Posted 3 years ago #
mellaw6565
Member Profile

JoB - I know you personally and I know that you care about people and animals and make cogent decisions. I know that you take very good care of your pets. So my thoughts were more in general - I just don't think there is evidence to support that leaving a pet in a car or outside in 25 degrees or less for more than a few minutes is sound practice.

With that said, I will have a dog in my Jeep today as I make my rounds because he is desperately missing his owners and I just can't leave him alone in his house again today. That means that he will be in my Jeep for short periods today while I visit cats, etc..... Could someone report me if they see it? Sure, and I guess I could see their concern. (although it will be warmer today)

I think that there are many of us that will do anything to make our pets happy and secure, including taking them to work and leaving them in cars vs. the emotional trauma that some pets face being left home alone in any weather. So I get why you and others may take their dogs with them. It's the irresponsible people that will drink in the bars and/or visit people and leave their dogs outside in extreme temp's that bothers me and posts that suggest that it may be ok to do that make me nervous.

Stay warm today and let me know if you need anything:) I'd be glad to help while I'm out and about:)

Posted 3 years ago #

RSS feed for this topic

Reply »

You must log in to post.

All contents copyright 2012, A Drink of Water and a Story Interactive. Here's how to contact us.
No photo reuse without permission.
Entries and comments feeds. ^Top^