West Seattle Blog...

WSB Forum » West Seattle Rants & Raves

1. cjboffoli
   Member Profile

   

   Leave it to Seattlites to figure out a way to run a red light without setting off the cameras.

   Earlier today I was in my car waiting at the red light on Avalon (facing west) at the intersection of 35th, just in front of the 7-11. There was a guy on a dirt-bike style motorcycle at the light when I pulled up. Apparently he didn't want to wait any longer as I saw him take a right turn onto 35th (north). And then he immediately made a shallow U-turn (south), before making another right turn and continuing westbound on Avalon.

   I didn't see any flash from the red light cameras. The traffic light turned green about 10 seconds after he did this. I hope that extra 10 seconds was worth it to him.

   Posted 10 months ago #         

2. johnnyblegs
   Member Profile

   

   I was waiting for the light on SW Marginal & Chelan Ave to turn green so I could take my left by the Chelan Cafe the other day. An SUV a few cars ahead was in a big hurry and had the bright idea to go around the car in front of them by using the opposite traffic lane and running that red light. Luckily no one was coming and I caught up with him at the light on Harbor Ave. Some people are just really stupid. Anything for that extra 20 seconds.

   Posted 10 months ago #         

3. Franci
   Member Profile

   I'm always amazed at the risks I see motorcyclists taking, almost everyday. I've had the ride between my car and the car in the next lane on the AWV when traffic isn't moving fast enough for them.. I have to say its very startling to look out the driver side window or catch them comming up on you in the side mirror -

   Posted 10 months ago #         

4. Cait
   Member Profile

   

   CJB, I knew what intersection and situation you were referring to before I even opened this! Gotta laugh to keep from cryin'...

   Posted 10 months ago #         

5. JayDee
   Member Profile

   That is a classic "Boston Driver's handbook" maneuver titled: "Straight ahead on red"...a common variant is making a left turn by proceeding through the intersection, then whipping a U-ey and making a right turn. I won't even mention backing up a one-way street because we don't have too many in this neck of the woods.

   Posted 10 months ago #         

6. chrisma
   Member Profile

   

   I was in California last week and was flabbergasted to learn that lane splitting (motorcycles driving between lanes of traffic) is legal there.

   In California no law explicitly and clearly prohibits lane splitting, and significantly, it has become the traditional policy of law enforcement, the courts, and the public in California to tolerate it when it is done safely. However, those engaged in unsafe behavior, including unsafe lane splitting, can still be cited for violating certain sections of the vehicle code.

   http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lane_splitting

   Posted 10 months ago #         

7. datamuse
   Member Profile

   

   Heck, it's legal in about half the places outside the U.S. I've visited. In Bangkok two-wheeled vehicles (bicycles included) regularly go to the head of the line.

   I've only seen people do it a handful of times in Washington, usually in stop-and-go traffic. I must not drive on the same roads that Franci does.

   Posted 10 months ago #         

8. wsgolfer
   Member Profile

   

   @Christopher, I believe the red light cameras were removed from this intersection quite some time ago. I ride (bicycle) through there several times a week, and hadn't noticed them since December or January. I sent TR an email about them, and she said she'd look into it, but I never heard a confirmation that they were permanently removed.

   Posted 10 months ago #         

9. Al
   Member Profile

   Yep - seen those moves by drivers that could cause a crash or physical harm to others before many, many times. I think from a cyclists perspective I notice dangerous driving, riding and walking more often than while I am driving my car. The amount of dangerous moves made by drivers is astounding and I have to just not think about it too much and just watch out for myself or I'd go nuts.

   I see much less dangerous moves by motorcylists (except for one who used to come off the Vashon ferry in the mornings and used to illegally lane split...haven't seen him for some time) and cyclists (caveat: dangerous for the cyclist themselves, yes, not so much for others).

   Lane splitting in CA has been legal for a long, long time. People there are used to it. It's not so dangerous as long as one is paying attention, not lane splitting stupidly (like going 50 mph on the freeway), and people are expecting it.

   Posted 10 months ago #         

10. Bostonman
    Member Profile

    LOL, JayDee is so right. Considering I drove in Boston for 13 years before moving to Seattle I can say I have seen that along with many other things that were normal out in Boston but here they are considered cheating.

    The difference in Boston is if you piss someone off you are likely to get into a fight. Here is you piss someone off they will probably just swear under there breath.

    Posted 10 months ago #         

11. BigPhil
    Member Profile

    I believe lane splitting at a light is legal in all 50; that is, moving between stopped cars at a red light to in between the first cars in each lane. It prevents motorcyclist deaths by having then at the pole position, rather than somewhere behind cars and crushed by some boxer who doesn't see the stopped motorcycle, ala that truck driver who killed a dozen riders last year..

    Posted 10 months ago #         

12. austin
    Member Profile

    

    Maybe time to brush up on the rules of the road.. According to section 46.61.608 of the Revised Code of Washington:

    (1) All motorcycles are entitled to full use of a lane and no motor vehicle shall be driven in such a manner as to deprive any motorcycle of the full use of a lane. This subsection shall not apply to motorcycles operated two abreast in a single lane.

    (2) The operator of a motorcycle shall not overtake and pass in the same lane occupied by the vehicle being overtaken.

    (3) No person shall operate a motorcycle between lanes of traffic or between adjacent lines or rows of vehicles.

    (4) Motorcycles shall not be operated more than two abreast in a single lane.

    (5) Subsections (2) and (3) of this section shall not apply to police officers in the performance of their official duties.

    Posted 10 months ago #         

13. BigPhil
    Member Profile

    The time copying and pasting that may have been better spent on reading my post more carefully. I'm quite aware of the motorcycle laws. What I described is called filtering, a distinctly different maneuver between stopped vehicles, considered separately from an overtaking maneuver.

    Posted 10 months ago #         

14. austin
    Member Profile

    

    Your snark is cute but

    (3) No person shall operate a motorcycle between lanes of traffic or between adjacent lines or rows of vehicles.

    Seems pretty clear cut to me.

    Posted 10 months ago #         

15. I Wonder
    Member Profile

    In Seattle, the New Englanders have to be tempted to the classic left turn lane "jump" at a red light, seeing that the locals always wait about 3 seconds before moving when the light goes green. I'd bet at least 2 Boston drivers could pull a left before a Seattle driver blinked at a green light. And before you go all hostile, its sometimes a couteous move. Rather than having one left turner at the front of the line of a two lane street blocking everyone else from going straight, it relieves congestion.
    I always felt lane splitting was tolerated in hot climates to encourage helmet use, and prevent overheating of m/c engines.

    Posted 10 months ago #         

16. KBear
    Member Profile

    I Wonder, you're absolutely right about Seattle drivers and green lights.

    "Oooh... The light turned GREEN! Totally wasn't expecting that! What do I do now? Let's see, what did I do the last time this happened? That's right, I sat there and thought about it for a while until it finally turned yellow! Maybe I'll try that again. Meanwhile, I'll just give a little wave to the guy sitting there waiting for me. Maybe he'd like to go first..."

    Posted 10 months ago #         

17. Kimberley
    Member Profile

    What's with the Boston driver bashing? At least callout the whole state and refer to them as "massholes". There are plenty of one-way streets in Seattle, I wouldn't limit that maneuver to Bostonians.

    I've had this conversation with many eastcoasters and most have said that Washington hands down has the worst drivers - they're (for the most part) just clueless and unaware of their surroundings.

    Posted 10 months ago #         

18. I Wonder
    Member Profile

    What makes you think its Boston bashing Kimberly, I think its Seattle driver bashing at its best! I rather miss the drivers, who at least know how to survive as a culture. Going 70 on 128, w/o fear of a speed trap. Or staying clear of the left lane squatters who block I-5 "except to pass". Me thinks you are miss reading this. Besides, just the Mainer's call em Massholes.

    Posted 10 months ago #         

19. Kimberley
    Member Profile

    Don't forget the ability to go 70 down the Pike during a snowstorm!

    Oh there were a few Boston driver bashing comments. I don't think it's just the Mainiacs that call them Massholes, most of New England does. Hey, my years of Boston/Mass/New England driving (not to mention dealing with all the Big Dig detours) prepped me for driving anywhere.

    Posted 10 months ago #         

20. I Wonder
    Member Profile

    So Kimberley, have you been back to Boston since the Dig is done? We were back a few weeks ago, and I have to say, was impressed with how things have turned out. Lived there during it and it was a pain tryin to find your way around the artery. But now! The pedestrian way is wonderful and the whole downtown area is opened up. It makes me think it is worth doing in Seattle, if people can deal with the fact that some snags and disruptions are going to happen. What project doesn't?? Jeez, they already tore down the 1st ave off ramp because they missed by a few inches. Snow storms were a breeze, you're quite right!

    Posted 10 months ago #         

21. kootchman
    Member Profile

    I believe any civil disobedience related to cameras revenue enhancement is great. We should put a pellet gun bounty on them....twenty bucks for everyone popped...thirty if you can prove you read George Orwell at the library.... if they keep coming back...up the caliber.

    Posted 10 months ago #         

22. cjboffoli
    Member Profile

    

    I Wonder: All of those Big Dig tunnels are great, as are the wide open plazas at street level where the Central Artery used to be. But just watch out for those falling light fixtures though. $15 billion and they can't seem to figure out how to keep them stuck to the ceilings.

    I learned to drive in Massachusetts. Though I realize that Mass drivers can be considerably selfish and aggressive, there is a certain consistency and predictability to the way they drive. You also have to give them credit for knowing how to handle a car in all sorts of extreme weather.

    Washingtonians certainly have their quirks, such as the aforementioned proclivity to refuse to yield the left lane, the wait for another shade of green after the light changes, and a tendency to run more red lights than any other place I have ever driven. However, they are far from the worst drivers in America. Hands down that title goes to the drivers of New Jersey.

    Posted 10 months ago #         

23. chrisma
    Member Profile

    

    Worst Drivers: New Jersey?

    Ever been to Florida?

    Posted 10 months ago #         

24. cjboffoli
    Member Profile

    

    Yes. The population is comprised of retirees from New Jersey ;-)

    Posted 10 months ago #         

25. chrisma
    Member Profile

    

    Of course! I can't believe I didn't make that connection.

    Posted 10 months ago #         

26. datamuse
    Member Profile

    

    You all are making me miss the East Coast something fierce. Every time I go back to D.C. I feel like I need to ramp up to the style of driving I learned in my youth, where green means go, the merge lane is meant for accelerating to the flow of traffic (IF you're lucky enough to have one; on-ramp from Route 29 to the Beltway, anyone?), and keeping right except to pass is considered more than a vague guideline that you might follow if you feel like it. And you can't talk on your phone, you need that hand for your horn. :D

    cjboffoli: I learned to drive in D.C. My husband is from Oregon. The first time we visited my family, we were on the Beltway five minutes when he turned to me and said, "NOW I understand why you drive like that."

    Posted 10 months ago #         

27. kootchman
    Member Profile

    How can you tell an east coast driver in Seattle? The ones in the ditch when it snows. Yea, we all ran down the streets at 60,70... when we were 18 and had reflexes. We also had months to get used to it. They move out here...get a few mild winters, and lose the winter driver skills... then they try and duplicate the same feats of derring doo... and you can usually find them in the left meridian or ditch trying to pass...

    Posted 10 months ago #         

28. TDe
    Member Profile

    East Coast drivers tend to be honkers, too. If something displeases them, they're all over the horn.

    Posted 10 months ago #         

29. Kimberley
    Member Profile

    IWonder: I think I was still there when it was finishing up. To be able to drive to the office (World Trade Center West) through the new tunnel was pretty sweet. Taking the Pike all the way to the airport? Such a breeze!

    datamuse: I was back there in April and was surprised that I still had the skills to successfully maneuver getting from Georgetown to Baltimore and Georgetown to Alexandria (I don't miss some of those interchanges).

    kootchman: I'd think that the east coast drivers stay off the roads during Seattle snowstorms because the natives don't know how to drive in it. They're also the ones prepared to walk if they get stuck. During the snowstorm before Thanksgiving, most I spoke to who abandoned vehicles and walked back to West Seattle were from the east coast.

    Posted 10 months ago #         

30. JoB
    Member Profile

    cj

    is it possible these two things are connected?

    "the wait for another shade of green after the light changes, and a tendency to run more red lights than any other place I have ever driven."

    we're big on survival instincts here in the NW..
    perhaps it has something to do with all of the wild animals that the Pacific Northwest their home ;->

    Posted 10 months ago #         

31. JoB
    Member Profile

    kimberley..

    are you insinuating that Pacific Northwesters don't know what to do when the snow and ice hits?

    perhaps those flatland California transplants freeze up..

    but a true Pac NWer will take the time to chain up, throw some extra weight in the car and a sandbag or two in the back for extra traction (over or under the wheels) and take to the side streets.

    We weren't walking because we either
    stayed home
    left work early enough to get home safely
    or were smart enough to find somewhere pleasant to wait out the traffic jam:)

    You don't have to live here long to figure out that hills and overpasses become skating rinks when it freezes.

    btw.. the biggest problems with the commute occurred because of commercial drivers.. including our friendly local neighborhood articulated buses.

    what were they thinking?

    Posted 10 months ago #         

32. dbsea
    Member Profile

    Sorry KMan but the theory that east coast drivers all lose their skills is bunk. I've been out here 20 years and still do fine, thank you.

    I was one of the walkers home from downtown last November. Beat the hell out of a 7 hour bus ride. Wasn't that bad and the cold beer and juicy steak upon arrival were major incentives.

    Now, for driving skills, I did have to tone it down in a HUGE way when I first arrived from Boston. And why the hell is everyone smiling at me? I consider myself a very alert and thoughtful driver having learned many valuable lessons in this much more civilized driving environment (sometimes a bit clueless, but more civilized). Skills are skills and I still got em.

    Posted 10 months ago #         

33. datamuse
    Member Profile

    

    How can you tell an east coast driver in Seattle? The ones in the ditch when it snows.

    Depends where on the east coast you learned to drive. I'm usually the one cussing the tailgater behind me who thinks that AWD means he can drive like the pavement is dry. Or, in the case of last November's commute from hell, the three jackknifed semis I saw (two on the Duwamish curve, one on 599) that seemed to be responsible for much of the backup. My Prius's engine braking feature got a workout that night.

    And yeah, we do honk. Especially when someone tries to switch lanes right into us, which has happened to me more often in the PNW than anywhere else I've driven. Do they teach people to check their blind spot in driver's ed programs out here? Cause a lotta folks ain't doin' it.

    Oh, but this took the cake: I watched a dozen cars stacked up at a green light on Westlake where it took the driver of the foremost car a good ten seconds (I counted) to notice that the light was green. Not ONE of them honked. Only in Seattle, I swear.

    Kimberley: didja have to navigate the Mixing Bowl? I remember that being what separated the men from the boys...or the women from the girls, as the case may be.

    Posted 10 months ago #         

34. Kimberley
    Member Profile

    JoB - I'm saying those west of the mountains who are perhaps city dwellers don't always know what to do. Staying home isn't always an option for some, and a dusting of snow shouldn't really necessitate having to stay home, at least for most people.

    datamuse - oh yeah, can't say I miss the mixing bowl at all.

    I swear the worst traffic I've ever been in has been the stretch of I-5 from Seattle to Tacoma, worse than Boston, DC, Atlanta and many other cities with large metropolitan areas.

    Posted 10 months ago #         

35. lucky chick
    Member Profile

    My thoughts: BLOW THE HORN! If the person in front of you is too busy dialing their phone to drive on the green, BLOW THE HORN!! If they are driving 5 mph because they are looking for something, BLOW THE HORN (they should pull over)!!! If they are going below the speed limit while planted in the left lane, BLOW THE HORN!!! If they were first to the 4-way stop but won't go, BLOW THE HORN!!! If they stop dead at the merge, BLOW THE HORN!!! WHY don't Seattles use their horns? Drives me nuts. Oh, I'm from NYC. In case you didn't guess.

    Posted 10 months ago #         

36. redblack
    Member Profile

    

    just a point of clarification, and a warning:

    contrary to wsgolfer's post (#8) i saw someone get popped by the red light camera at 35th and avalon just yesterday morning.

    they're still alive and generating revenue at that intersection.

    Posted 10 months ago #         

37. kootchman
    Member Profile

    cause if ya blow your horn a lot...you may get shot. Unlike NY we conceal and carry in this state...and people get might pissy round' here when you act NY'r....and if they aare in the left lande doing the speed limit...you get the ticket for road rage. I'd try and tame that horn thing...it's for "dire warnings" not a traffic control device.

    Posted 10 months ago #         

38. JoB
    Member Profile

    Kimberley

    contrary to popular opinion, people brought up west of the mountains also learn to drive in ice and snow.

    i know i did..

    Posted 10 months ago #         

39. datamuse
    Member Profile

    

    Kootch, maybe you can explain the habit around these parts of using that nice, long merge lane to get up to, oh, 45 mph, MAYBE 50, then merge into traffic going 55-65, THEN accelerating to freeway speed.

    What's up with that? It happens all the time. Where I come from that's an excellent way to get into an accident.

    Posted 10 months ago #         

40. Kimberley
    Member Profile

    JoB - then perhaps they should put those skills to good use when there's snow on the ground.

    Posted 10 months ago #         

41. dbsea
    Member Profile

    The horn IS intended as a safety device but also totally appropriate to wake up a distracted driver. Of course if you could just ask nicely you wouldn't need the horn, but that's kinda hard car to car. Big difference between a quick toot and a BEEEEEEEEEEEP. IMO

    Posted 10 months ago #         

42. KBear
    Member Profile

    Datamuse, that is not the correct technique for merging. Everyone knows you're supposed to crawl up to the gore point, come to a complete stop, then wait for someone to let you in.

    Posted 10 months ago #         

43. I Wonder
    Member Profile

    I find I use the horn because all these drivers have their i-pod ear buds on. How else can I get their attention! I thought that was illegal, but I see it all the time.
    The other difference w/re to snow is that every Jimmy with a truck and a blade moves snow back east. The infrastructure is prepared for it.

    Posted 10 months ago #         

44. ElizabethElaine
    Member Profile

    

    I Wonder - You can legally have one ear plugged/covered while driving. I've always found that interesting, since deaf people can drive.

    Posted 10 months ago #         

45. datamuse
    Member Profile

    

    KBear: I am now imagining somebody trying that maneuver on the Capital Beltway. :D

    Posted 10 months ago #         

46. KBear
    Member Profile

    Elizabeth, deaf people are accustomed to paying attention to their surroundings without the benefit of sound. Also, not being able to hear the sounds of traffic does not distract them from driving, as phone calls or music would do to a hearing person.

    Posted 10 months ago #         

47. lucky chick
    Member Profile

    Forgot about this one until it happened yesterday - be sure to politely stop and wait, hornless, when a late lane-cutter (say, to exit I-90 to I-5 South when it's backed up) stops a whole lane of interstate traffic because they are too special to wait in line!

    Posted 10 months ago #         

48. dbsea
    Member Profile

    The line cutting cheaters get P-lenty of horn, and maybe more, from me. Can't tolerate that nonsense.

    Posted 10 months ago #         

49. kootchman
    Member Profile

    Here's my favorite... some butt head behind me lays on the horn the left off California...onto Alaska.....but I am waiting for a pedestrian to cross...dumb---

    Posted 10 months ago #         

50. No problem
    Member Profile

    The difference between drivers in the NE and drivers in the NW in a nutshell:
    When sharing the road with a state trooper in a 60mph zone: in the NW, the driver will slow down to 55. In the NE, the driver will slow to 70.

    Posted 10 months ago #         

RSS feed for this topic

Reply »

You must log in to post.