Home › Forums › Open Discussion › RANT: Could you please control your child?!
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October 21, 2014 at 1:19 am #612983
Greg BMemberI am a busy college student. I am not a partying, rich kid who can afford to sleep through my courses. On the contrary, I have to earn decent grades. And my routines are simple and predictable:
– I work part-time
– I share a 2 bedroom apartment
– I study full-time
– I stress about my grades…full-time.
On my days off when I don’t have classes, I’d rather stay in West Seattle and study at the closest library, which happens to be the West Seattle Branch. This branch also happens to be the loudest nursery, er, library in West Seattle!
My rant regards parents bringing their tantrum-throwing, screaming children into a library and doing absolutely nothing to quiet the children nor trying to discipline them. Absolutely poor and lazy parenting! Do you know that there are people in the library studying! Better question, do you care if people are in the library studying?!
Has America gotten so screwed up to the point where parents can not discipline unruly children? Do parents in WS even care if their children are embarrassing, vulgar, and loud?!
October 21, 2014 at 1:26 am #815232
fatkittyParticipantWell, the West Seattle/Admiral branch obviously does not have the same employee that was working when I went there with my 2 1/2 year old (now 10 1/2) and we got kicked out because she was so out of control crazy and loud. We have never been back. ;)
October 21, 2014 at 1:32 am #815233
Seattle TrashMemberHas America gotten so screwed up to the point where parents can not discipline unruly children?
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Yes. Can not, or choose not to. Either way, it’s a sad situation.
October 21, 2014 at 2:20 am #815234
JanSParticipantby “discipline”, what did you mean? Spank them? Talk to them and try to calm them down? Simply remove them from the premises?
Children are not adults, and sometimes lose it. It’s up to the parents to take care of them, and not ignore them, in hopes that the tantrum ends. But…discipline is such a harsh word.
Seattle Trash? You got kids? Were you a kid once throwing a tantrum? How about you, Greg B…did you come out of the womb a grown up? And, more importantly, did you say anything to anyone at the library? The librarian(sort of a rule here for rants)? The mother? Did you offer to help her calm her child? Did you have any sympathy at all for the situation? Or did you just give dirty looks, and decide to rant on the forum. Everyone has a bad day, even little kids….even you.
We all have something going on in our lives that causes stress…even college students and little kids. So be gentle with others, as they may have a world of problems you know nothing about. (and , yes, I expect parents to pay attention to what their children are doing – when my daughter was little, I had to leave the grocery store unfinished with shopping on more than one occasion)
fatkitty…I’m sorry you have chosen to never go back there. It’s a nice library.
October 21, 2014 at 2:50 am #815235
Seattle TrashMemberJan, I don’t think the OP is saying kids don’t act up or saying it’s not okay when they do–I know I’m not. Of course they do, and all of our kids have and we did as well. I appreciate it when parents attempt to manage their child and do the right thing and put the situation above their own wishes–in this example, sparing a library, where people go for quiet, their loud children. I’ve had a special-needs child act up and start screaming in the middle of the library, we high-tailed it right out of there. He couldn’t control his outburst, but the library is not a place for screaming out a tantrum.
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I think it’s frustrating to see children being ignored when acting up, or not addressed, or parents not taking into account the environment they are in. Heck, in the past week I’ve seen 2 different families encourage their children to run in a restaurant/cafe around other patrons. It really makes me thankful for those kick-ass parents out there, whom there are a lot of–I always go out of my way to compliment them on their kids behavior. I also don’t shy away from asking a child not to sprint around me screaming in a restaurant, or climb up onto my chair at a cafe and bang on my computer when I get up to grab a refill.
October 21, 2014 at 6:30 am #815236
JanSParticipantI understand about the running around restaurants, etc., getting into other patrons ways, etc. And if it’s really bothering me, I speak up..at least to the management. I never allowed my child to do that. So…I asked if the OP said anything to the librarian, who should have been on it, if it was for an extended amount of time, or if the OP said anything to the parent. A simple “Is everything OK, can I get you some help” might suffice. It would at least clue the parent in.
October 21, 2014 at 11:58 am #815237
KatherineLParticipantGreg, I seem to recall that the Delridge has study rooms set aside. Or, if you aren’t using the computers, maybe the librarian could let you study in one of the meeting rooms at Admiral.
October 21, 2014 at 1:19 pm #815238
anonymeParticipantIt’s fine to ignore tantrums when at home or in a private place. Ignoring this behavior in public shows a blatant disregard for the needs of everyone else – and teaches that lesson very effectively by example. I am not a proponent of spanking, but children can (and should, IMO) be taught respect for others, which includes quiet in certain circumstances. Otherwise, the child needs to be removed from the situation. If they are not, it indicates a parent with less maturity than the tantrum-thrower.
Personally, I love kids and love seeing them have fun, be creative. Encouraging enthusiasm, and teaching respect for others, are not mutually exclusive.
October 21, 2014 at 2:04 pm #815239
kayoParticipantGreg B, did you say anything to the librarians? I have a loud and wiggly little kid and I work really hard on teaching him to use his inside voice and be respectful of other people’s space when we are out and about (to the point that we have left places more than a few times). He also loves going to the library and sometimes despite all the work I do with him (trust me, it is a constant struggle!) he has a loud moment or two. He’s been shushed by a librarian before and I think it was actually good for him to hear that message from someone other than me, so honestly I didn’t mind. Seeing kids loudly running wild (something I would never let my kids do in a library) is certainly worthy of a complaint to management. You also might want to see if you could use the downstairs space if you need absolute quiet. The WS branch is very busy and WS is full to bursting with little kids who use that branch so if you want to avoid littles you might need to change your location to somewhere less kid friendly.
October 21, 2014 at 4:23 pm #815240
B-squaredParticipantGreg, please say something to the librarian or library staff about this, and if necessary to the children/parents directly. I don’t believe that you should have to, but until we start directly confronting instances of disrespect (wherever they occur), they will keep happening. And before anyone jumps all over me for not being cognizant of parental challenges, let me say that, yes, at one time I was a child. But I was taught to be respectful of others from an early age. The behavior that I see exhibited today by some children in public would not have been tolerated in my youth. By me or any other children. Not sure what happened…..
October 21, 2014 at 4:51 pm #815241
ws4everMemberHey Greg B: I agree. I go to SW Library and even some staff speak loudly. Better than average earplugs (from a university bookstore) tuned out the kids and other talkers. And a hoodie or baseball cap can screen out some visual distraction. Good luck: I can’t concentrate in noisy environments either.
October 21, 2014 at 5:03 pm #815242
GinaParticipantIf it is a nice day the wi-fi at West Seattle extends to the outdoor courtyard area for fresh air study.
At the Central library the 10th floor is the place to go for relative quiet. Tourists with iPHONEs are the hazard up there.
Current library thought is to allow life in, but if a caregiver is unable to calm a screaming child or ignores a screaming person of any age, they will be asked to attend to their charge. If the caregiver has no calming strategies they might think of going out for some fresh air.
The caregiver is not going to be asked to leave if the crying tot is being comforted and the sobs are quieting. If the tot is escalating and screaming and throwing items, and the caregiver sits looking at their phone? The third time they are spoken to and ignore the meltdown they will be asked to leave until calming happens.
If a toddler speaks loudly or makes high spirited happy shrieks, there is not going to be a finger to the lips library husher deployed.
October 21, 2014 at 10:28 pm #815243
mtnfreakParticipantFor the price of a cup of coffee, Cafe Fiore is just up the street and tends to be much quieter. I try to average $2-$3/hour in purchases to be a good customer.
October 22, 2014 at 12:34 am #815244
KatieHParticipantThe percentage of children with special needs has increased a lot in recent years. Some reasons are clear (for example, the percentage of premature infants who survive). Some aren’t. In any case, it may not be simply that an increasing number of parents don’t care.
When my child was younger, I had no idea where and when she was going to blow. She had trouble managing sensory input. We had all sorts of strategies (weighted vest, bouncing, etc) in use. But the only way we could actually improve her ability to function in the community was to actually be in the community.
I would have loved to have someone ask if I needed help! It was so lonely to try and manage being in public spaces at Truly Awful Moments. The only people who offered were those who recognized a child with special needs, through their family, friends or employment.
October 22, 2014 at 12:04 pm #815245
yes2wsParticipantKids are just little people trying to make their way. I applaud the mom who doesn’t take the easy way out and instead maintains strength and courage allowing her little ones to feel safe enough to express themselves. I too used to question this way of parenting, but now I totally get it and respect it.
As to why this mom didn’t choose to leave the library during a meltdown? On another day, she very well may have. Parenting is a tough job; especially this particular style of parenting. Perfect decisions cannot be made every time. But overall, I’d venture to guess her kids are going to be okay. They will grow up feeling completely loved and safe.
October 22, 2014 at 4:46 pm #815246
melissaParticipantThis is SO passive-aggressive Pacific Northwest! For heavens sake, talk to the parent. And if there’s no parent there, talk to the kid making the noise. And if there’s an inadequate response from parent or kid, talk to the the librarian. And this comes from the parent of two kids who are now quiet in libraries, but who had to be taught, as do we all, that this is the rule.
By the way, the only person I’ve ever had to talk to in a library (and yes, I talked to him, not to a librarian) was a grown up man who was audibly cussing at something he was reading on the computer. He had headphones on and was very apologetic when I pointed out to him that we could all hear what he was saying.
October 22, 2014 at 5:14 pm #815247
skeeterParticipantThis thread is challenging because there’s a pretty big gray area for child behavior in a library. Let’s say a “1” is a child sitting perfectly still, hands on lap, and not moving. Let’s say a “10” is a child screaming at full blast while running through the aisles. My 3YO is generally somewhere between a 3 and 5 on this scale. I think it’s acceptable behavior for the library and I only discipline her when she goes above a “5.” However, I suspect there are some library patrons who would prefer children to be removed from the library if they reach a 2 or 3 on this scale. Like I said, a really big gray area.
Our librarians are extremely helpful, though. And they have a good sense for how children should behave. I recommend OP talk to a librarian and I highly suspect this can be resolved with reasonable expectations.
October 22, 2014 at 5:27 pm #815248
desertdwellerParticipantIf you’re a busy college student then you should make use of your college’s library for studying. The public libraries are for the public, which includes small children.
Libraries have a children’s section on purpose, while your college library doesn’t, also on purpose. Each child has just as much of a right to use the public library as you do. Are children loud and boisterous? Yes! Does that mean that their parents can’t/won’t control them? No, usually not.
Rather than blame parents for having loud children (and yes, that’s a part-time hobby for folks around here so I’m sure you’ll find some sympathetic ears who will bemoan the current state of parenting with you, *eyeroll*) perhaps you should study at your college library, which won’t have small children, will give you access to all the databases and books you might need for your research, and will be a better environment for you.
May I also suggest you buy a pair of headphones? I wrote my entire doctoral dissertation at the Southwest Branch and, even though there were people’s cell phones ringing around me and toddlers running around, I was able to get work done.
Rather than complain, perhaps it might be a good time for you to realize that the public library isn’t working for you and find a new space that meets your needs.
October 22, 2014 at 5:47 pm #815249
JoBParticipantI am not a student, so the library i use is my public library.
for the most part, we have chosen a time of day when children are limited and a branch where supervision of both children and adults is consistent..
but.. i have had to leave the library without choosing my reading material for the week more than once because someone’s screeching little darling made it impossible for me to stay.
it’s not out of line to expect public behavior in public spaces.. and while the expectations of public behavior for all age groups has declined precipitously since my childhood.. minimum expectations still exist.
although absolute quiet is not longer a reasonable expectation in our public libraries.. it is a reach to include screeching in acceptable behavior.
i am all for taking kids into public spaces to teach them how to behave in them.
and i am also all for removing them when they don’t meet your expectations.
October 22, 2014 at 5:57 pm #815250
desertdwellerParticipantI have become so paranoid about taking my toddler out in public because of people in this forum. I am constantly apologizing for her when she sings (loudly) in public or decides to giggle loudly at a dog she sees down the street and I find myself worried every time she escapes my clutches that someone will post on the blog about my out of control child.
I understand that many people on this blog don’t have children and, before you have kids, it’s easy to judge every little screech to be a misstep in parenting, but can we please give parents a break?
These tiny humans are also a part of our world. They belong in public just like you do. By in large, parents are doing their best, they really are. One of the reasons I moved to West Seattle was because I thought it would be a warm and welcoming place to raise a family but, after reading post after post about the tiny hellions running around everywhere, it makes me wonder if I should have settled down somewhere more accepting of children.
October 22, 2014 at 6:13 pm #815251
desertdwellerParticipantI imagine that soon, a tiny army of toddlers armed with organic, free-range beanie babies are going to take over West Seattle in protest.
October 22, 2014 at 6:50 pm #815252
on boardParticipantWhat’s with all the bad parent apologists here? Strike a nerve? Way too frequently I witness parents bringing small children into inappropriate places and expecting everyone else to just deal with it. Sure, there is normal happy kid sounds that aren’t a big deal, but there is a stage that many kids go through where they just emit blood curdling shrieks and screams as they try and make everyone stop in their tracks. Parents who ignore this and expect everyone else to deal have an unbelievable sense of entitlement. You need to take the kid away, period. Just face it, there are years where you don’t eat at nice restaurants, go to movies or the theater, or art galleries, or even the children’s section at the library if the child is not ready to handle it. You aren’t entitled to ruin people’s dinner out that costs $80, particularly since many have done the right thing and paid for child care. Yes, we were all kids once, and hopefully when I behaved like that, I was removed from the offending location, rather than coddled or neglected leaving the parenting up to someone else.
October 22, 2014 at 6:54 pm #815253
skeeterParticipantDesertdweller – no need to apologize for your kiddo. I’ve got my hands full too. Like I said in my post – I “allow” my child some measure of talking and roaming in the library. The librarians at my branch are good about letting parents know if the child’s behavior is a distraction to others.
I’ve got a story to tell you about bad parenting at the library. This past summer my 3YO daughter has really been into her balance bike. So I would walk to the library while she pushed her little bike along next to me (cute!!) We’d park her bike in the lobby and then enter the library to read and choose a couple DVDs. She’s usually good about staying in the kids section and reading books while dad looks through a magazine or two. One day I’m reading my magazine and I look up to check on the little darling and I see a girl riding her balance bike IN THE LIBRARY. I’m thinking to myself that’s pretty bad behavior for a library. Where the heck is the parent? Then I realize the KID IS MINE!! She went out into the lobby, hopped on her bike, and entered the library and started scooting around! Well, I jumped up and fixed that quickly enough. But I was a little embarrassed exiting the library with kid in one hand and bike in the other hand. I guess my point is you’re not the only one trying to stay sane while watching a kiddo. We all struggle and hope that society is willing to bear the hassle of other people’s children in exchange for another generation of taxpayers (and outlaw bikers.)
October 22, 2014 at 7:55 pm #815254
desertdwellerParticipant@on board. I don’t think anyone is being a Bad Parent Apologist (TM) here, but I have to respectfully disagree with you. Children don’t come to us packaged as fully-formed adults a la Athena. They require social conditioning to understand how to behave in social situations. The only way they get that training is if a parent takes them there.
An art gallery or museum is a good example. My daughter, now 2, has been visiting museums all over the Puget Sound. While we’re there I show her the art and tell her how we behave in a museum. It would be silly to keep her away from these activities until she’s “old enough” and then to assume she’ll automatically understand how to behave.
Are there some bad parents? Sure. Are there loud kids? Of course. All I’m asking is that we don’t assume that all parents and all children automatically fall into these categories.
October 22, 2014 at 8:33 pm #815255
trickycooljParticipantThere’s a list floating around the ‘net (probably from Buzzfeed) comparing toddlers to your drunk college friends. It’s pretty accurate and helpful for non-parents to understand. Though I find that as I hit 30 and most of my friends are procreating now, I’m a little more understanding of some tantrums in public especially at certain times of day, missed nap time and missed meal time are brutal on anyone, imagine a tiny human who doesn’t know how to express that displeasure with words? That said, I appreciate the parents that take it outside when it reaches blood-curdling scream level. And for the college studying, definitely keep it to the college library if it’s that critical (midterms/finals) or even check if the SSCC library is open if your college is outside of WS.
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