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RANT: Continued Noise from Am Legion Post 160

Started 10 months ago by eyeye
Latest reply from peopledust

eyeye
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Noise continues tonight from Post 160 at 37th and SW Alaska. I am simply floored that absolutely no one will take responsibility at that decrepit facility to maintain a respectable presence in our neighborhood. My apartment is 300' feet from the American Legion and six hours into this latest party, I can still hear the music quite clearly.
SPD's words from an officer who finally came to our house: "It's just noise, there aren't any other problems coming out of that facility so we can literally do nothing."

Posted 10 months ago #
WSB
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And you have talked to the post commander/other management? What did they say?

Posted 10 months ago #
peopledust
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I am stuck with the same problem! Yes, the American Legion is available for rentals. Yes, they have many events there, but does that mean the music has to be so loud that my windows rattle and I can feel the bass line of the music vibrate my floors from over two blocks away? It is ridiculous and excessive. Even with all the windows closed and my t.v. on, I can still hear the noise crystal clear, like the music is coming from inside my house. Many times, I've gone over across the street to ask them to, at least, close the door to the hall and EVERY SINGLE time the response I get is tainted in some BS "I can do whatever the hell I want attitude" and/or drunken slurs. Give me a break. They can't do whatever they want. If they can, what is the point in the Seattle noise ordinance, anyway? I followed the noise compliant procedures outlined on the Seattle.gov website and two years later nothing has happened.

By the way, I went to ask the people out on the lawn to quite yelling last night and to keep the door closed so the noise is reduced to a reasonable level and the 16 year old kids that were outside were clearly drunk. How is that ok? A young girl even said, "Oh, don't listen to them. They are all drunk." Who is the one serving these kids alcohol? The Skipper that runs the place was in plain site at the party. He could care less and was just sitting there drinking beer.

You'd think a place that supposedly fosters community would give two sh**s about the community it resides in. All we want is them to keep the noise to a reasonable level. Is this really too much to ask?

Posted 10 months ago #
dhg
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I suspect if you told the police that the youth were drunk you might get a more decisive response.

Posted 10 months ago #
dbsea
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I imagine that the property owners are responsible for what happens on their property. Have you contacted the site or post management? If they're unresponsive you might send a note around to your neighbors asking them to contact the post as well. And there has to be a city agency that could look into this. Maybe along the lines of improper use or repeated violations of this or that?

It sucks that you have to be in a position to get someone else to do the right thing. You're probably busy enough as it is and just want some peace and quiet. Get a clue American Legion management.

Posted 10 months ago #
eyeye
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Last night (Sunday), the site hosted another event. The band finished playing at 12:55am. I could hear them through earplugs, a rain noise-making app on my phone - set next to my head, an electric fan, and the windows closed and the curtains drawn. I have video for anyone who wants to witness these two parties from the weekend.
I walked over to the Legion lawn this morning and counted 19 beer bottles plus trash strewn about. It's a private business and private property and that's their right to project whatever image they want to the community. But what a disgrace.
I am just very disappointed in the response from SPD: why is there a giant chasm between the protocol for reporting a noise problem (at Seattle.gov) and the enforcing abilities of the beat cops? Why wouldn't the dispatcher just tell me/us that they **aren't** going to do anything, rather than, over the course of 23 months, continue to take our calls, and ostensibly tie up their OWN lines, and generate bad will with the people? Just sack up and say you're not going to do anything!

I have a call into a regional representative of the American Legion. I anticipate a quick resolution here, and hopefully, a swift "changing of the guard."

Posted 10 months ago #
KBear
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Keep at it, Eyeye. Have you talked to your neighbors and encouraged them to complain? You should also contact your CPT Officer:

http://seattle.gov/police/precincts/southwest/CPT.htm

Posted 10 months ago #
WSB
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Here is what the Seattle Police website says about noise complaints. You may already have seen this, but nobody's put up the link in this discussion yet, so here it is:

http://www.ci.seattle.wa.us/police/prevention/Neighborhood/noise.htm

While I haven't crosschecked, I *believe* the Legion is in the commercially zoned area. Therefore you would want to look at the section labeled "unreasonable noise," and the caveats at the end regarding repeat calls and being willing to testify. And if you haven't already, document exactly what you have done (called police at x o'clock on x date, they responded/didn't respond, noise persisted, called them again at x o'clock, they responded/didn't respond, etc.).

If you have all that kind of documentation, you might try Councilmember Tim Burgess's office, as he oversees the Public Safety Committee. Also - if you believe liquor violations are involved - check with the state Liquor Control Board, which has some jurisdiction over facilities' licenses:

http://www.liq.wa.gov

Posted 10 months ago #
miws
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According to Parcel Viewer, it's C1-65.

http://info.kingcounty.gov/Assessor/eRealProperty/Detail.aspx?ParcelNbr=0952007960

Couldn't find any definitions on the DPD site at a quick glance, But I would gather that the "C" denote Commercial.

Mike

Posted 10 months ago #
eyeye
Member Profile

Hello All - thanks for your links, support, and participation to find a resolution to this matter. The liquor issue seems compelling; there may have been underage guests drinking out on the front lawn.

TR: with regard to the protocol for noise complaints, my wife and I followed these guidelines when we first started calling the non-emergency line in response to the loud live music noise. Until this weekend I would have regarded it as good policy. Now, for other residents, I'll tell you this: it's total bunk. And here's why:

I also had a conversation with a 911 dispatcher after my wife's four calls to the non emergency number went unanswered on Saturday (they were spaced an hour apart, and she left her number for follow up): "The officer responded to the site and learned that [the Legion has] a permit to make noise until 1:30am." Imagine my reaction upon hearing this from a 911 dispatcher. I remained polite and calm, but inside I was furious. I respectfully asked her to send over an officer, who eventually showed up at midnight.

We were so disheartened to hear from Officer Renner that "SPD can literally do nothing about noise from the Legion, unless there are other problems being reported like fights or DUIs". He then recanted: "Well there have been some DUIs [originating from this site]." But he remained firm on this point: there was _nothing_ he nor SPD could do. "The squeaky wheel gets the grease" he said, "Write the Mayor, call City Hall, talk to your neighbors."

It is based upon that interaction on Saturday night that I believe that Seattle.gov noise ordinance page is garbage. Sure, it tells you to call 911 and be willing to testify, etc etc but what's the point, when the officer that (eventually) responds, tells you there is nothing that can be done? He wouldn't take a report, they won't acknowledge our calls, no one has reached out to follow up with us. How absurd! Does SPD just selectively enforce the noise ordinance? Apologies for hyperbole but: Do we wait until one of the drunk partygoers causes violence or worse?

Postscript: we were contacted by a regional official from the American Legion. He requested we document our experiences. I will post a follow up here. Thanks for reading.

Posted 10 months ago #
dbsea
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I would definitely contact Burgess' office with nothing but objective and plainly stated facts.

Maybe because of zoning you're stuck with living with the noise?

Either way, that's a pretty lousy part time job in dealing with this. Drop a leaflet bomb on the neighborhood and try to get a petition or group letter to the owners and City citing the problem their property causes. And how many people are driving away from that place under the influence each night? That might be worth bringing up.

Posted 10 months ago #
ItsForrest
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Here are some things I found out when I had neighborhood business noise problems at a previous residence;
1. It is not a Seattle police enforcement issue.
2. The police do not know the law regarding noise pollution and don't care even a little bit.
3. It is a Seattle Department of Public Development enforcement issue.
4. It does not matter where the noise originates, it matters what the noise level is on your residential zoned property.

So, while they may have a permit to make noise in their commercial zoned area, when the noise is over the decibel limit at your property line on your residential zoned property, they are in violation.

This is where to file a complaint:
http://www.seattle.gov/dpd/Compliance/default.asp

Posted 10 months ago #
ItsForrest
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So, to elaborate a bit more; it is indeed a zoning issue and as such the Seattle police are not the agency to deal with it.

The business owner or property manager does not understand the issue. Or, if they do they don't care and you probably won't have any luck dealing directly with them.

It may well be that they have a permit to make all kinds of noise ON THEIR PROPERTY, they do not have the right to generate that noise on your property. If the noise bleeds over onto your residential zoned property then they are violating zoning ordinances regardless of any permits they have.

If you can show the DPD that they are violating noise ordinances, they can potentially lose their permits and income from party rentals.

Posted 10 months ago #
kootchman
Member Profile

Sometimes ya gotta wonder though... St.Clouds has had live music for years..great music too...then the dreaded neighbor moves in..the one who thinks an urban environment should sound like Walden Pond.. 10 years of great Monday night music...now it stops at 9:30 or 10:00. One "neighbor" in over ten years brings a Seattle tradition to a halt. Underage drinking..well that is another matter indeed..that is wrong at every level, anywhere. I would think before I rented an apartment...what is the zoning and what is permitted in that zoning area? If ya move to Alki Beach...guess what? You will live 3 months of the year in a :beach front environment. Cars, music, traffic, masses of people. The Legion however...I wonder what their side of the story is...? Maybe a member should post...is this a one sided diatribe or a legit complaint?

Posted 10 months ago #
eyeye
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Thanks, ItsForrest. Much appreciated. Sure is strange that the city informs us to call the police. After the many calls we've placed to SPD, you'd think it'd eventually enter someone's consciousness to mention this. How many times would *you* continue to take calls that were basically meant for someone else???

Posted 10 months ago #
eyeye
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Point taken, kootchman. We certainly took these issues into consideration when we picked our current residence. We're reasonable people - we understand the noise that urban dwelling carries with it. If I demanded the "Walden Pond" experience, we never would have moved near Fire Station 32, nor near the line for Metro 22/54/55. :)

Posted 10 months ago #
cjboffoli
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I think there's quite a difference between not wanting your walls and windows to vibrate with bass after 11 p.m. and seeking the serenity of Walden Pond. True, living in an urban environment does require an additional measure of patience with dealing with the downsides of a city. But to me, living in close proximity to a lot of other people means that we need to be more careful about being considerate because there are that many more people around us. I don't know why so many others feel justified promoting the idea that we should all basically do whatever we want – with little concern for other people – simply because it is a city. That's pure slush.

I love live music of all kinds. But I often wonder how and why it has become the standard that music always has to be played on 11. Most of the concerts I have gone to in my life would have been just as enjoyable (if not more so) at half the volume. It IS possible to rock out without going home at the end of the night with your ears ringing.

I have a hard time believing that the VFW can't find a volume level that is both pleasing to their guests (inside) and considerate to their neighbors (outside). It doesn't sound like they're all that interested in the latter. I'm all for music into the late hours. But it should stay inside the venue as much as possible.

Lastly, the "they were there first" argument always seems like the weakest one you could possibly use. Just ask any Native American how that line of reasoning worked for them.

Posted 10 months ago #
datamuse
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I'm with you on this one, cjboffoli. Besides which, I do not understand the tendency in this town to list a show start time as 8pm and not actually get going until 10. Particularly on a weeknight, that just makes it less likely I'll stay till the end.

I worked for One Reel when they did their Summer Nights at the Pier concerts, and they definitely got dinged when the volume from the show got too loud for nearby residents--if it's shaking your windows from the other side of the viaduct, I think a complaint is entirely reasonable.

Besides, if we cut the American Legion some slack, then wouldn't the same apply to my (thankfully) former neighbors, whose parties tended to end with drunken fights in their backyard at 2 a.m.?

I think there's a happy medium between rattling windows and Walden.

Posted 10 months ago #
WSB
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With all due respect to the person who posted about the DPD: No, this is NOT their issue. They deal with noise related to that for which they grant permits - construction, for example. Even their website points this specific type of noise problem to SPD.

http://www.seattle.gov/dpd/Enforcement/Noise_Abatement/Filing_a_Noise_Complaint/default.asp

That all said, again, I think the advice to escalate higher is still valid. But glad to hear you have heard from a Legion official. They are actually rather active in the community - we wouldn't have the summer parade without Post 160, nor the Memorial Day service at Forest Lawn, and it's not like they have an abundance of cash and volunteers to deal with either - but somebody's gotta do it. I hope you get it sorted out.

Please do note, since both their names have been mentioned here, the American Legion and VFW are *different* organizations. Right across the street from each other, perhaps similar in basic mission, but different. Both have old buildings that are rented for events.

Posted 10 months ago #
cjboffoli
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Drat. My apologies to the VFW for mistyping.

Posted 10 months ago #
skyhook
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The VFW has pretty much stopped renting to noisy parties. Too much work cleaning up and too many neighbor and police complaints. That means the Legion is one of the few ramaining venues for raucous, drinking and fighting parties.

Posted 10 months ago #
peopledust
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I live on the same street as the VFW and have yet to hear a loud party, the American Legion is down the block and living near them has been a nightmare. As someone previously mentioned, the fire station is in the same area and I have ZERO complaints about that, the numerous bus lines, the hotel or the VFW.

The American Legion is the problem: late night parties (even until 1:30AM on Sundays), noise so loud it makes the floor vibrate, party goers out on the lawn screaming to each other, and no regard for the surrounding neighborhood. Ugh. I've walked up to the top of the hill and talked to those neighbors- even THEY HEAR IT! That is how freaking loud it is, if you can believe it.

Posted 9 months ago #