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Rant - Cars on the bridge who drive in the 'bus only' lane

Started 2 years ago by johnnyblegs
Latest reply from johnnyblegs

johnnyblegs
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You know who you are. Either ignoring the signs or acting ignorant. Do you realize that the diamond lane on the bridge is for buses only? I ask because I see cars blaze past me at 65 mph all the time in the lane. The signs clearly say 'buses only' yet when the bridge is packed in the morning, everyone doing dangerous braiding curving driving to get over to the 99 lane or merging onto the bridge, I constantly see drivers cruising in the bus lane oblivious to the law. It erks me because I've had quite a few close calls getting sideswiped by those lawless drivers. I rarely see police on the bridge these days, but I always see drivers going 65 in a 45 straight up that bus lane. Or maybe I'm the one who's mistaken. Is it a carpool lane? I don't think so.

Posted 2 years ago #
KBear
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I second your rant.

Posted 2 years ago #
squareeyes
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A couple of times per year the cops do park down at the end of the bus lane and pull people over...they have so many offenders to choose from, it's like shooting fish in a barrel. I like those days as I watch from my spot in the 99N lane.

Conversely, I hate when everyone tries to merge into the 99N lane immediately after the Delridge onramp as the Delridge drivers are trying to merge out of the 99N lane. That creates a terrible bottleneck. Go 100 yards further to merge smoothly please!

EB bridge traffic always seems to get worse when school is in session...I expect to see heavier traffic in the next few weeks.

Posted 2 years ago #
Meegan
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As long as you're not confusing the majority of that lane that is not bus only, with the bus only part. People should utilize all lanes available to them, but also should be merged out of the bus only lane once that's what it becomes, which is after the crest of the bridge. People not using that lane early on is part of what creates a back up at the point where cars approach from Delridge, because everyone thinks the merging into the 99 lane has to happen at the end of the line. You can get upset about it, but people driving up that middle lane helps keep traffic moving. I do agree that they should be out of it once it becomes bus only though.

Posted 2 years ago #
JanS
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Meegan, if you're coming from Avalon or Admiral Way up the on ramp to the bridge, the right hand lane is Bus Only. It remains bus only, and is just there for us to cross to get to and from the N99 lane. One is not supposed to just drive up that on ramp like it's your private lane. One gets to sit in the backed up traffic like the rest of us. I think that's what the rant is about.

Posted 2 years ago #
anatidaephobia
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Jan, if that is the case, you can't tell this is true if your car is entering from Delridge. I was under the same impression as Meegan, but I enter the road after the Avalon/Admiral Way entry point.

Posted 2 years ago #
SarahScoot
Member Profile

Jan - sorry to break it to you, but Meegan's right on this one, and it does bother me that everyone insists on merging to the right immediately. Yes, please merge *promptly*, but there's no need to force your way over immediately. Premature merging from Avalon/Admiral onramps does pose an obstacle for cars coming up the Delridge onramp that need to get over to the left lanes. The lane isn't technically "bus only" until around the crest of the bridge.

This does not negate my vitriolic feelings toward those who drive in the true "bus only" lane.

Posted 2 years ago #
flowerpetal
Member Profile

I may be corrected on this. At some point on the bridge the bus lane has a solid white stripe on both sides. I believe that at that point you should be finished merging either way cuz you are not supposed to be crossing the solid line. So do your merging promptly across the broken lines.
Also, it is the law to let busses merge in. I ride the bus daily and I've witnessed countless times when cars have not permitted the bus passage into the lane they occupy. Some Metro drivers are more assertive at making their way into the lane; and that wins my admiration!

Posted 2 years ago #
swimcat
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I agree with the original rant. This whole merge is completely messed up. As I sit in traffic I often try to come up with a solution to the merge problem, but it's pretty much impossible to fix.

Back to the OP, if the police were down at the 99 exit giving tickets on a consistent basis to the bus lane cheaters (as I firmly believe they are completely aware of their actions), maybe the behavior would change. Every time I see someone blow by me I always hope I'll see a cop down there after I crest the bridge, but this happens only once in a blue moon.

Posted 2 years ago #
SarahScoot
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flowerpetal - I believe you are correct about the solid lines being the start of the "bus only" lane. So yes, everyone should merge promptly, but many people try to do it right away, which does block in the people coming up the Delridge ramp who need to get over to the left. I also observe this daily from my seat on the bus, shake my head, and return my attention to my book or podcast. ;-)

Posted 2 years ago #
WesCAddle
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Are we talking off-leash or on-leash here?

Posted 2 years ago #
johnnyblegs
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What prompted my rant includes everything below...
1) As previous posts have noted, at the crest of the bridge there is a sign that notes 'bus only'. Cars blaze past all the way to the 1st ave exit in this lane all the time. I seem to notice that the majority are multiple occupancy vehicles which makes me think they think it's a carpool lane - which actually would be a great idea on the bridge but right now it's not.

2) Before the crest there seems to be ample room for cars to merge in either direction. I understand the occasional cars that have to sit in that lane (the ones using the Fauntleroy on-ramp) because not all drivers are graciously letting other drivers cut in front of them while waiting to get on 99, but when drivers ignore the law, lose their patience and force their way in at the 99 exit while in the bus lane it pisses me off.

3) Why can't everyone follow the posted speed limit on the bridge? Is the 45 at the top and the 35 at either end ludicrous?

Posted 2 years ago #
maryws
Member Profile

Just curious, what is up with the buses that are in the car lane while the bus lane is empty? I've had this problem a few time, stuck behind a very slow bus on the incline while the bus lane, right next door, is open and free. What's up with that? If we can go faster, can we go around them?

Posted 2 years ago #
rockergirl
Member Profile

I agree with Johnnyb - frustrating as all get out when you are abiding by the "law" and staying out of the "bus only" lane - which resumes mid crest on the bridge - we sit backed up in the correct lane and a car (or several) go zooming by and either merge in way up at first ave or exit to first ave. Maybe we should start snapping photos of there cars & license plates and post them for all to see. Also amazed as others are that many people do not merge in a reasonable fashion - but rather feel the need to get over immediately. It's not an emergency people, relax a little and go with the flow - it will make all of our commutes go smoother.
If you check out google maps and zoom in on the bridge you can totally see where the bus lane stops n starts.
http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&source=s_q&hl=en&geocode=&q=alki+seattle,+wa&sll=47.620973,-122.347276&sspn=0.697935,0.843201&g=seattle,+wa&ie=UTF8&ll=47.570598,-122.352304&spn=0.002729,0.003294&t=k&z=18

Posted 2 years ago #
Semele
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Posted 2 years ago #
CMP
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When I first moved to West Seattle that bus lane confused me a bit. I think the Diamond sign makes some people think this is a carpool lane and the Bus Only may add to their confusion. If you haven't noticed, we don't have the sharpest, most observant drivers in Washington. However, I'm assuming the OP is complaining about violators during the morning commute so I'm 99% certain they aren't that stupid. Can't you call 864-HERO or something like that to report them? I'd be doing that all the time, although they might be driving by so quickly you won't have time to take down their license plate number. I solve this whole problem by leaving early for work so I avoid the morons and bad mergers, and I get to speed. If you're going to drive the speed limit, at least stay in the far right lane!

Posted 2 years ago #
JanS
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CMP...I want to make sure that I'm understanding yo. Speed limits aren't for everyone? And if I elect to go the speed limit, and my destination is Beacon Hill, how can I possibly stay in the far right lane? The other lanes are for those whose privilege is great enough that they can choose to go however fast they want, and I'd better keep up or else? Am I hearing that right? Or did I miss something?

Disclaimer: this has been what I call "testy Tuesday", so there is, yes, a bit of snark in there ;-)

Posted 2 years ago #
metrognome
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see my lengthy reply on the bus-only lane in the thread of responses to the suggestion regarding adding carpools to the bus-only lane.
On this topic, clearly some people are more important than the rest of us and should not have to waste their valuable time sitting in traffic when it is so easy to violate traffic laws to get ahead, as it were. Clearly, their (self) importance allows them to speed by the less important law-abiding citizens -- in fact, it also allows them to illegally cut in front of waiting traffic at the on-ramp to NB I-5. The best way to tell that they are truly more important is that they are also on their cell phones.
And, there is no legitimate reason I can think of for a Metro bus (full or empty) to be in an EB general purpose lane instead of the bus-only lane, unless the driver has made a judgement call to pass the merging drivers clogging the bus-only lane.
One reason some people may make late merges in either direction is that you can't see if there are back-ups on the bridge or the viaduct until you crest the bridge, which is after the allowable merging distance has ended. Still illegal.
Regarding the need to immediately merge, I frequently observed this phenomenon at the SB on-ramp to I-5 at NE 145th when I lived in what is now Shoreline. Before the lanes were restripped, this on-ramp continued as its own lane for quite a while. It was not uncommon to see driver with a completely clear lane in front start merging immediately, often illegally crossing the 'gore point'(converging solid lines which designate when it is safe to merge.) If the express lanes were closed, there was absolutely no compelling reason to endanger on-coming traffic by merging so soon.

Posted 2 years ago #
CMP
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Slower traffic keep right.

Posted 2 years ago #
beachdrivegirl
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It is illegal to be in any lane but the far right lane accept for passing or exiting. So Jan, would suggest you stay in the far right lane until your exit appears.

Posted 2 years ago #
KBear
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"If you haven't noticed, we don't have the sharpest, most observant drivers in Washington."

My first clue to that, when I was a newcomer to Washington, was the sign at the border explaining the purpose of the right lane.

Posted 2 years ago #
swimcat
Member Profile

I still feel that the major problem with the 99NB onramp and ensuing back-ups is because there is such a long area to merge. If everyone changed lanes in one place (i.e right where the Delridge onramp is), then traffic should theoretically keep moving because the merging would be complete. Merging needs to work like a zipper. If there are missing teeth in the zipper (no specific merge point), the zipper won't close or open (traffic backups).

Posted 2 years ago #
Julie
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beachdrivegirl, Jan has a tricky problem if she follows your suggestion; follow me in your imagination: let's assume we're eastbound in the lane between the bus only and the far left lane, maintaining the posted 45 mph up to the crest of the bridge, slowing to the posted 35 as we approach 99. Note that we have at this point likely backed up quite a few impatient drivers who would like to exceed the posted limits. If there are openings in the left lane, these impatient drivers zip around us; if there are no openings, they stack up behind us. As we approach the I-5 exit, we must merge left to take that exit. If, as is commonly the case, there are no openings in the left lane, we must slow or stop to await the driver who will notice that we are attempting to merge, and allow us to do so. Note that many of these drivers will deliberately NOT allow us to merge, because they are upset that we are "jumping the queue". While we wait, we are backing up even more cars in the right-hand lane, and they are furious by now.

Posted 2 years ago #
beachdrivegirl
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The leftlane is passing. I didnt say Jan had to do anything i just stated what the law is. Jan and other drivers can choose to do what they want to in regards to the law but I would suggest to *everyone* to follow the law even if you piss a few people off doing it.

Posted 2 years ago #
Homer
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Not to be one of "those" people but why is the W. Seattle bridge the practically the ONLY spot in all of Seattle that has a Bus Only lane? I-5 is not like this. I-90 is not like this. Everywhere else they have a shared lane and this works well to reward those that go out of their way to try and reduce their effect on the environment et al. It also helps overall traffic to reduce how many cars are clogging up the regular lanes as these Bus Only lanes are almost always completely empty.

Posted 2 years ago #
JanS
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so, by your sticking to the law, I should hang in the "far right lane" going over the bridge until my "exit". That would mean that I hang in the lane going to N99, and at the last minute cut over through the bus only lane to get to the lane that takes me to Beacon Hill. And there-in lies a problem..making me yet another driver having to use the bus only lane illegally, which is the OP's complaint. On the highway I understand what you're saying, but the bridge has lanes going to specific places, and in rush hour one needs to get in that lane, stay there, and keep traffic moving..Geez....silliness..

Posted 2 years ago #
johnnyblegs
Member Profile

Homer - I wish every major artillery had a bus only lane. Can you imagine all of 99 during rush hour if there was a bus lane? Everyone would want to ride the bus and zip past the commuters stuck in their car

JanS - You're absolutely correct.

Beachdrivegirl & CMP - Are you two serious?! "slower traffic keep right" pretty much applies to freeway traffic. Do you keep right while driving down every road? I don't think so. The WS bridge is not a freeway. The "slower traffic keep right" law does not apply to the bridge. Too many variables...

1) The far right lane is an exit only lane to 99
2) The lane to the left is a 'bus only' lane. Not a passing lane as many use it for.
3) The lane to the left of that is the merge lane to 1st ave exit & the through lane to beacon hill & I-5 S.
4) The far left lane is exit only to I-5 N.

If you're pissed at other drivers for going slow on the bridge and not moving over for you, take a deep breath, slow down and ask yourself why you're in such a hurry.

Posted 2 years ago #
beachdrivegirl
Member Profile

Homer-see my rant about the bus lane. I am contacting SDOT to recommend a change. I would love it if I could have your support too!

Sorry, Jan, I don’t find my recommendation silly. And I am surprised that you do considering you have had no problems pushing the law on others in other threads.

And to others. Yes, I am serious. If you are going to preach to other to follow the law then you should lead by example. Here is the LAW where it says slower vehicles keep right except to pass.

"On a road with two lanes traveling in opposite directions,you must drive on the right side of the road except when you are legally passing another vehicle."

http://www.dol.wa.gov/driverslicense/driverguide.pdf

Posted 2 years ago #
flowerpetal
Member Profile

Beachdrivegirl, what you are quoting is not the law, that book is the drivers guide; sometimes referred to as the rules of the road.
And if you read the next page from where you were taking your quote you will see that the rule for this situation is for Jan to use the middle lane.
If you want to quote law, you can find the WAC here: http://apps.leg.wa.gov/wac/

Posted 2 years ago #
johnnyblegs
Member Profile

But the law also states to adjust to the flow of traffic, to keep pace with the other vehicles on the road. This applies very much so to the bridge where every lane has it's designated destination (post 27), unlike most roads. The law of keeping right is difficult to the point of non existent on the bridge. If it was followed to the 'T' the bridge would be a cluster &%$!

Posted 2 years ago #
andrea
Member Profile

OK, this is utter foolishness. There is no way I am going to stay in the far right 99N exit lane of the bridge if I am heading to I-5N out of West Seattle. It's not practical, safe, or necessary. I guarantee you, as the wife of a police officer, there is no way in the world you would ever be ticketed or pulled over for being in the far left lane going over th bridge at a normal and safe speed. But you can and will be ticketed if you cross over 3 lane of traffic (including the aforementioned bus only lane) from the far right to the far left at the last minute.

Posted 2 years ago #
flowerpetal
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Amen. The right place to be is in the middle lane.

Posted 2 years ago #
swimcat
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No one ever said if you were heading to NB I-5 that you should stay in the far right lane that exits to NB 99 until you need to merge over. Why are people wasting their time arguing over this? I think the bottom line is be aware of the speed other drivers are going and do what they are doing (which is hopefully going at or slightly above the speed limit). Let's lose the self-righteous attitudes and just try to do what is best for everyone while we're out on the road.

Posted 2 years ago #
bluebird
Member Profile

The bridge would be considered two lanes of traffic, with an additional bus only lane, and an exit to the viaduct (or 1st, or the southbound freeway). No one is suggesting you drive in the exit lane and then at the last moment fly across 3 lanes to get onto the freeway. Please. The far right in this circumstance would be the right lane of the two full lanes. The left lane is always reserved for passing.

Edit: and even though you are likely to never get ticketed for this, you could. BTW, WS bridge is considered the WS freeway by the state isn't it? Even google maps calls it Seattle Freeway.

Posted 2 years ago #
JanS
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bluebird..if you notice the bridge signs, they no longer refer to the WS "Freeway" in reality. This was a big thing at one point because people felt that if it was a freeway, the 45mph limit was wrong and they were going 55-60 mph (actually, some still are). So the state changed the designation, said it is a bridge, not a freeway. The maps have never caught up, I believe.

Andrea, you're a breath of fresh air :)

m...when BDG suggested that we should be in the far right lane, unless we were passing, the far right lane on the bridge is the one that takes you to N99. I totally agree with you that the middle lane is where I should be.

I'm just glad that I live AND work in WS, and don't have to put up with the commuter traffic on a regular basis.

Now, everyone have a wonderful, sunny day, and drive carefully..you may be fine, but that other guy..well, ya never know...

Posted 2 years ago #
JanS
Member Profile

I do have a question for people. When merging, like when going from the onramp from Avalon/Admiral to the middle lane, what should one expect from people already in that lane. When I first moved to Seattle, my now ex-hubby explained over and over, that the "rule of thumb" was let every other car in, and that keeps traffic moving. Example..you let a car into your lane, the next person let's a car in, etc. Not two or three cars, just one, as in taking turns. Is that how everyone does it? or is it just whatever, a somewhat" free for all"?

Posted 2 years ago #
bluebird
Member Profile

JanS, the name of it is referred to as the West Seattle Bridge, and in fact WSB featured the resolution to change the name. It is still legally a freeway.

http://westseattleblog.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2009/07/williamsbridge.pdf

The point is, everyone was jumping on BDG and CMP for saying stay to the right, when the middle lane everyone is arguing about IS the right lane and the lane I'm guessing they were referring to.

Posted 2 years ago #
swimcat
Member Profile

JanS- good question. I view merge points as a zipper. In order to function properly, it needs to go every other car. That is why when a lane is ending on the freeway (i.e EB I-90 at the Mt.Baker tunnel entrance), I go to the very end of that left lane to merge. If you merge too early, you back everyone up behind you and totally stunt the traffic flow.

Posted 2 years ago #
beachdrivegirl
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Jan, most people, allow every other car in. However some dont.

M-Be careful doing what you are doing. My husband got a ticket for doing exactly that.

Posted 2 years ago #
JanS
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BDG..sorry your hubby got caught. The ones that really get me are the ones in the middle lane at the Western Ave. exit on N99, when there's a long line of traffic in that lane. Then they stop with their signals on blocking that lane going into the tunnel..guess there are a lot of things out there that need to be improved, huh.

Posted 2 years ago #
Julie
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The "when to merge" question is that with which Tom Vanderbilt begins Traffic: Why We Drive the Way We Do http://books.google.com/books?id=_5KJG2rD8rEC&lpg=PP1&pg=PP1#v=onepage&q=&f=false (I recommended this book in another thread: http://westseattleblog.com/blog/forum/topic.php?id=5848).

It's an interesting discussion!

Posted 2 years ago #
WSratsinacage
Member Profile

This area has been a CF for years and ofcourse has been discussed here before. I know I am bringing no new info to the table but just want to add that I feel that 270 degree turn that the right lane takes when it turns into 99 N requires people to slow down so much that it backs up the volume in the right lane all the way up and back over the hill. This just adds to the merge problem for those trying to get over to the main lines and those trying to get over to the far right 99 N only lane. There is also an onramp at the bottom of the hill which comes up from Spokane which allows people to get to 99 N. This short merge adds to the carnage.

Not sure what we can do about it but it frustrates me too. Basically the bridge was not designed to handle the volume or not designed very well.. I mean can you believe that there used to be a higher speed limit, no center divider, and a on ramp (on the westbound side) with a very short dangerous merge (which is now closed because someone died)!? Hopefully the "re-do" that is going on now will make traffic flow be better.

Posted 2 years ago #
flowerpetal
Member Profile

Julie, thanks for reminding me who it was that recommended that book. I reserved it immediately upon reading what you had to say about it.
Its way far away from anything I would have predictably read and not too nerdy for the layperson.
Thanks again.

Posted 2 years ago #
swimcat
Member Profile

BDG- I'm confused as to why your husband got a ticket? Is there something illegal about using a lane until it ends? I could understand getting a ticket for doing this where a lane DOES NOT END, like the NB 99/Western Ave situation mentioned by JanS (that spot drives me crazy as I see it happen almost every morning).

Posted 2 years ago #
beachdrivegirl
Member Profile

It was a couple of years ago and i believe that the ticket was given b/c if your lane is ending and it was clearly marked before hand then the driver (you) has to yield to other vehicles. It is not mandatory that any vehicle lets you in.

Posted 2 years ago #
Hammertree
Member Profile

Wouldn't it make more sense to allow first avenue exiters to use the bus only lane also.

Posted 2 years ago #
Homer
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Hi Beachdrivegirl...I would DEFINITELY support your request to turn this into a carpool/bus lane!!! In fact, I already have but don't think I got anywhere...see the response here that I got from Reiner Blanco with SDOT (reiner.blanco@seattle.gov):

Thank you for writing to the Seattle Department of Transportation (SDOT) regarding traffic congestion on the West Seattle Bridge. SDOT shares your concerns with wanting our street system to operate safely and efficiently for carpools as well as buses.
>
> SDOT installed the bus-only lanes eastbound on the West Seattle Bridge to provide a benefit for commuters willing to travel by bus. SDOT understands that this condition may not be as desirable for other drivers and carpoolers. The suggestion you made would provide less of a benefit to buses because it would allow additional traffic into what is currently an exclusive bus lane. This has the potential to result in additional delay for buses. We are trying to improve how the roadways within the city operate and to provide transportation choices to people.
>
> With construction of the Alaskan Way Viaduct, it is likely that there will be significantly more buses using the West Seattle Bridge bus lane. Some of these buses will be Metro’s new “RapidRide bus rapid transit” buses. As a result, I expect that you the bus lane will appear to be better utilized in the future. Keeping the bus lane available exclusively to buses will become even more important than it is today.
>
> That said, we want to ensure that the West Seattle Bridge is utilized as efficiently as possible, and I will ask the team that is working on maintaining traffic flow during Alaskan Way Viaduct construction to consider your suggestion.
>
> There are currently several projects being studied which will benefit travelers between West Seattle and Downtown. Additionally, we are about to begin construction on improvements to the Spokane Street Viaduct which will dramatically improve traffic flow and safety.
>
> We appreciate you bringing your concerns to our attention. We value the contribution that citizens bring to transportation issues. If you have any further thoughts or concerns, please contact me directly at (206) 615-1911 or via e-mail at reiner.blanco@seattle.gov.
>
> Sincerely,
>
> Reiner Blanco, P.E.
> Senior Civil Engineer and Arterial Street Operations Supervisor
> Seattle Department of Transportation
>

Posted 2 years ago #
johnnyblegs
Member Profile

Wow, what a clear & thorough response from the SDOT. I partially agree with the reasons. Opening the lane to all traffic in non-rush, say 10am-3pm & 7pm-6am kind of makes sense as well. Just as they should be for I-5

Posted 2 years ago #
Homer
Member Profile

Yeah, but the real problem isn't during non-rush hour times...then, there is no need for anyone to use this lane. Sure, you could open it up to all during this time, no harm done, but the real issue is during rush hour. Would we rather it sit empty except for the occasional bus, or use it and keep it moving with more frequent carpooler's and buses? The amount of carpoolers wouldn't affect the bus traffic in this lane because as good as Seattle is about carpooling, still, not too many people do it. On the other hand, just getting a few more cars out of the general purpose lanes could/would greatly free up the general purpose lanes. Seems like a win-win to me but not to SDOT. Hmmmmm....

Posted 2 years ago #
SarahScoot
Member Profile

But we're not talking about the "occasional" bus during rush hour - there are buses transporting us commuters downtown constantly during rush hour - I'd estimate at least 20 buses/hour use the lane. And I appreciate that SDOT has kept this lane as "bus only" as an incentive for those of us who can, choose to, or have to take the bus into work.

Posted 2 years ago #

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