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1. wsfam
   Member Profile

   I spent the week looking at the State of Washington's proposed supplemental budget cuts and they are so disheartening! The Office of Financial Management (OFM) has asked the State to cut ALL Medicaid Prescription drug coverage, Medicaid Vision, Medicaid dental, Basic health, the Children's Health Program and more. I am a social worker and these cuts would devastate my clients. From our client with hemophilia who will not be able to get life saving factor, to our severely compromised young adult with rheumatoid arthritis, to the insulin dependent client. When I called OFM to ask what would happen to these people the man said very somberly, "It is likely they will die." It is like a knife in my heart to think this is what we have come to as a state. And for those of you who believe non-profits and churches pick up the slack in these places, I spend about 30% of my time trying desperately to raise money to keep us afloat. We could NEVER raise enough money to do the work we do and we pay people a pittance and we have very shabby digs. We pour all of our money into the work. Last week we also had two churches call us to ask for funding for their parishioners. Aaaaargh!!!! Bleak times for our communities most vulnerable and sick!

   Posted 1 year ago #         

2. MrJT
   Member Profile

   

   Oh its just state spending, I thought you got a bad haircut....

   Posted 1 year ago #         

3. Smitty
   Member Profile

   Makes you wonder how we survived 5 short years ago on that paltry 27.5 billion dollar budget (9.5 billion less than FY2011). That's "only" a 33% increase (with low inflation):

   http://www.fiscal.wa.gov/FRViewer.aspx?Rpt=Recast%20History%20Expenditure%20Statewide%20Summary

   Posted 1 year ago #         

4. jwws
   Member Profile

   

   LOL MrJT - I thought the same thing too!

   Posted 1 year ago #         

5. JanS
   Member Profile

   

   not a joking matter, frankly. I am on Medicaid right now, waiting for approval for a kidney transplant..not only have I been informed that I will be losing some of these services, I have also been informed that I may lose my insurance altogether in a few months. Yes, scary. Luckily, once transplant is approved, etc. , a federal medicare program kicks in for people with end stage renal failure.

   This is no longer about political ideology. It's about people's lives...but, then, Smitty, I'm thinking that you haven't had the things happen in your life yet like this that might possibly devastate you..you'll learn. It happens in a second...

   Posted 1 year ago #         

6. redblack
   Member Profile

   

   the fact that more people are relying on state services due to the private sector looting the economy explains the budget cuts; but it sure as hell doesn't absolve anyone, or make those who rely on government services to survive feel any less terrified about their respective futures.

   republicans are wrong: recessions are exactly the time to raise taxes.

   the wealthy private sector has left the building. if they won't help their country through hard times, hit them with tax increases to mitigate the damage.

   'tis the season, after all.

   Posted 1 year ago #         

7. charlabob
   Member Profile

   

   MIL is part of the state system, so we got a letter telling us about the cuts. They won't directly affect her, because she's cared for in other ways and NO, Smitty and Rich, we're not gaming the system...they're aware of her -- not paying her. Damn, I hate knowing so well how people think.

   The letter said, in part: we won't be paying for dentures, for eye glasses, for ... pretty much anything after January 1. I suspect it used to be that folks just had to find another pocket from which to get these essential services. Now the pockets are empty and the cupboards are bare. Who knew when the repugs wanted to starve government and drown it in the bathtub they meant to do that to the people directly.

   Thank you for posting this, fam -- I've meant to do so since we received the letter.

   Posted 1 year ago #         

8. JoB
   Member Profile

   I find it very sad that any member of our forum can make jokes about people dieing for want of medical care.

   Posted 1 year ago #         

9. datamuse
   Member Profile

   

   Well, Smitty, five short years ago the economy was in better shape and fewer people were relying on state aid.

   That's the problem with free-market solutions...you need a healthy market for them to be effective. But I know people who've been looking for work for a couple of years now. They aren't lazy or unqualifed...there just aren't enough jobs.

   Posted 1 year ago #         

10. Genesee Hill
    Member Profile

    

    Yes, this is a very unfortunate situation. The trouble is, I know a person who relys on these state services who also received the letter about the cuts. This person is furious at Governor Gregoire! This person ALWAYS votes Republican and ALWAYS votes against any and all tax increases.
    It makes my blood boil that so many people think this stuff is free!

    Posted 1 year ago #         

11. wsfam
    Member Profile

    Smitty, It is true that the State Budget has risen over the last 15 years BUT the State Population has grown by 50% in the last 25. If you look at state spending per capita, it has stayed almost exactly the same for over a quarter of a century. Some of the issue has, in fact, been growth. When the State gives tax break incentives to large developments or corporations to build, and THEN people move to that location, the development of schools, roads, etc. is left to the State. The hope is that the taxes generated from those folks will be more than what was spent and offered in the incentives, but that is not always the case. Certainly over the last few years health and human services expenditures and unemployment are also way up contributing to the recent rises. The Iman (sp?) initiatives also made it harder for the state tax revenues to keep pace with population growth. This is a multi-layered and complicated issue, and I understand that there are multiple sides of the big government/small government debate. I would hope no matter where you land on that debate that you believe that people should not be allowed to die in our society for lack of money. Having worked with vulnerable folks for many, many years I second some of the remarks above. It often takes one bad illness to bankrupt a family. This could be you or someone you love at any given point in time. YOU sit across from them and tell them that they can't have their insulin. YOU sit across from them and tell them that their son's schizophrenia meds that have kept him stable for years are no longer available. YOU tell them that they can't have glasses to function. Seriously. I challenge you to be the one to do it. Because I have been reading these letters with people over the last week and watching their faces crumble. I sit with them absolutely helpless as they ask "What am I going to do?" It is heartbreaking and unfair and unjust. And if anyone doesn't see that, than their heart is made of colder and harder stuff than mine.

    Posted 1 year ago #         

12. JanS
    Member Profile

    

    Gen Hill...I will never understand people like that.Money doesn't just fall from the sky, and she obviously well knows this..not for her, and not for the gov't. And, of course, the only place that gets cut is services to those least able to afford it. Heaven forbid we cut out some of the big, unneeded stuff. Many of us have no idea what actually goes on in Olympia..we just accept their word when they say this is where the cuts have to come from...we gripe, but let it happen. And then we read things like this...and I still am not sure if these people are truly needed or not?

    http://news.opb.org/article/20158-washington-state-agency-lobbyists-republican-crosshairs/

    makes one pause...

    Posted 1 year ago #         

13. hooper1961
    Member Profile

    the fact is the State has to learn to live with a budget; heaven forbid the thought. the State failed to save aggressively during the good years instead added more government that was not sustainable.

    if you don't want a specific government service cut PLEASE PROVIDE AN ALTERNATIVE program or service to cut.

    Posted 1 year ago #         

14. miws
    Member Profile

    

    Corporate welfare.

    Mike

    Posted 1 year ago #         

15. JoB
    Member Profile

    Miws
    I'm with You

    Posted 1 year ago #         

16. Genesee Hill
    Member Profile

    

    hooper1961:

    FYI, the State has always had to live with a budget, I believe it is a state constitutional mandate to have a balanced budget.

    So heaven forbid something else, please.

    Posted 1 year ago #         

17. Genesee Hill
    Member Profile

    

    hooper1961:

    I researched it a bit, and there is NOT a constitutional mandate to balance the budget, though legislators traditionally have in our state. Including our current Governor.

    So, as Rosanneroseannadana, used to say: Never mind!

    Posted 1 year ago #         

18. dobro
    Member Profile

    

    "the State failed to save aggressively during the good years"

    You really do seem to have a problem with facts. The state of WA used to have a thing called the Rainy Day fund which accumulated a big pile of money, ostensibly to take the edge off the bad times. Remember what happened to this fund? Republiscum agitator Tim Eyman and his henchmen came whining to the people saying "If you have all this excess money sitting in the bank from our taxes we should get it back!!" Guess what happened? Look it up-you might learn something.

    "if you don't want a specific government service cut PLEASE PROVIDE AN ALTERNATIVE program or service to cut."

    This challenge from a guy that has nothing but FOX news talking points...do your own work and point out your own budget priorities.

    Posted 1 year ago #         

19. JoB
    Member Profile

    Hooper1961

    Turn off the TV
    take a walk
    Smile back at people who smile at you
    Do something nice for someone else
    This too shall pass

    Posted 1 year ago #         

20. hooper1961
    Member Profile

    I DO NOT LISTEN TO FOX NEWS AT ALL. All you have to do is watch King 5 news to see government squandering limited tax resources.

    Listening to a retired High School Principal discuss the enormous resources spent on a very few; many of whom simply are not teachable. It is time for government to prioritize better.

    BTW I voted to keep the soda tax that if the legislature had kept focused on pop it would not have been overturned by the voters; in my opinion.

    Posted 1 year ago #         

21. JoB
    Member Profile

    hooper1961..

    it wasn't the legislature that misdirected the focus on the soda tax..

    follow the money trail.

    Posted 1 year ago #         

22. redblack
    Member Profile

    

    that's funny. you have to turn off corporate media - like belo subsidiaries - to find out just how much the republocrats have slashed tax revenue and allowed the wealthiest people and corporations to pay considerably less percentage-wise per capita than the bottom 90%.

    hooper, if you keep following corporate news for all of your information, you will continue to be angered by government spending.

    but if you turn off corporate news, you'll find out that it's actually the corporations (like those who own the mainstream media) who are running the show.

    but you keep pushing for those cutbacks.

    i'll keep pushing for government expansion and an increase in tax revenue to fight corporate hegemony.

    Posted 1 year ago #         

23. hooper1961
    Member Profile

    whatever happened to personal responsibility? only 25% of the bad mortgages where due to predatory lending that means a whopping 75% have significant borrower culpability.

    it is sad that so many people overspent on consumption including government that the shit has now hit the fan. basically the credit card is maxed out and spending will need to be prioritized. i for one prefer investment (infrastructure/education) versus consumption (health care)

    Posted 1 year ago #         

24. dobro
    Member Profile

    

    Where is the 25% figure from? Any links?

    Posted 1 year ago #         

25. hooper1961
    Member Profile

    sunday seattle times

    Posted 1 year ago #         

26. JoB
    Member Profile

    hooper1961

    what is a human life worth to you?
    and does it matter if that human life is someone you know?
    because that is what investing in health care saves ...
    human lives.

    Posted 1 year ago #         

27. datamuse
    Member Profile

    

    I believe this is the article hooper1961 is referring to.

    Posted 1 year ago #         

28. hooper1961
    Member Profile

    i have no issue with providing basic services to all. but expensive treatments for very elderly that only prolong the eventuality a month or two versus spending the money on immunizing thousands of kids against disease. the simple fact is that the credit card is maxed out and choices have to be made.

    Posted 1 year ago #         

29. dobro
    Member Profile

    

    Thanks for the link datamuse. I read the article and the main thing I got from it is the difficulty in assigning responsibility for the housing crisis. Here's one quote...

    "Even a basic number — borrowers in default or foreclosure — is hard to pinpoint, said Guy Cecala, publisher of Inside Mortgage Finance, a leading trade publication. That's because those who track the data have no way to weed out homes that are counted multiple times because they've gone into, and out of, the foreclosure process more than once."

    So it looks to me like "death-panel" hooper is cherry picking quotes to back up his foregone conclusions rather than reading the entire article and grasping its totality.

    Posted 1 year ago #         

30. JanS
    Member Profile

    

    hey, Hooper, you're gonna be old..and you're gonna need that care one day. And who would you like to decide that you're simply not worth it? What world do you live in, anyway? Are you serious? Just let 'em die, they're old anyway? I am astounded that there's someone in this community that is that cold and hard hearted. We're not all just the bottom line...we're human beings, parents, sisters, brothers, children, WIVES!!! Husbands. Damn, I'm glad you're not in charge!

    Yes, credit cards are maxed out...so we may just cancel yours first...better be careful ;-)

    Posted 1 year ago #         

31. redblack
    Member Profile

    

    predatory lending? doesn't even begin to address the issue. i'll ask you the same thing i asked DP in your "social security" thread:

    if you go around "loaning" people on the street $100 bills, and some of them pocket the money and walk away, never to be seen again, who's to blame? who's the irresponsible party?

    jan: let's try raising his interest to 29.9% before we cancel his card. thank god usury is still legal.

    Posted 1 year ago #         

32. TDe
    Member Profile

    There seems to be a disconnect between voting actions and consequences these days. Maybe it's a lack of understanding history, I don't know... But, I guess people who constantly vote down any tax measure will be content to live in a third world country, where the poor roam the streets begging and dying on street corners while the rich live in palaces behind stone walls with paid armed guards. And why do they live behind stone walls with armed guards? Because sick and hungry people tend to revolt against inhumanity at some point. French revolution ring a bell? I wonder how close to becoming a third world country we are willing to accept?

    Posted 1 year ago #         

33. JoB
    Member Profile

    TDe...

    excellent question...

    Posted 1 year ago #         

34. hooper1961
    Member Profile

    my credit card limit was cut; it was very surprising since I always paid my bills.

    i want to know what world we are living in; the US is is in debt up to its ears thus choices have to be made. if we don't get our spending in check we will become poorer and poorer as a country.

    Posted 1 year ago #         

35. dobro
    Member Profile

    

    "my credit card limit was cut; it was very surprising since I always paid my bills."

    What's really surprising is that you haven't figured out a way to blame the government for it.

    Posted 1 year ago #         

36. hooper1961
    Member Profile

    i believe government has a role to play; the debate is about how much and what services it provides and for how much.

    Posted 1 year ago #         

37. dawsonct
    Member Profile

    Hoop, do you even make a connection between the Republican Party, who, when they are in charge, overspend and bloat government bureaucracy, and, when they are out of power, spend ALL of their time COMPLAINING ABOUT GOVERNMENT SPENDING AND BLOATED BUREAUCRACIES? Do you have problems with your memory?
    When Republicans have been in charge over the last 30+ years, the Federal government gets larger and overreaches in our civil liberties. When we elect Democrats, they spend all their time in power fixing the screw-ups of the Republican Party, and then the conservative "liberal" media takes them to task constantly for not implementing their progressive programs.
    This is how the Repoligarchs want it; keep the status quo in place.
    ---
    Does that EVER occur to you?

    Posted 1 year ago #         

38. redblack
    Member Profile

    

    cutting domestic spending - at any level of government - will not reduce the national debt or the trade imbalance with china. as a matter of fact, it will end up costing taxpayers more as services are cut and more people are left to fend for themselves.

    the only way to reduce the national debt is to get the rich people who ran that debt up to pay it back. they stole tax money from us to fund their adventures abroad.

    period.

    for example, i don't recall demanding that the government go into debt to pay for welfare. nonetheless, as a liberal, conservatives accuse me of advocating a nanny state for demanding that poor people have a taxpayer-funded safety net to keep them off of the street when they fall on hard times.

    i do remember demanding that the people and businesses who are making profits from overseas wars and american hegemony pay for it themselves. because i don't have one bit of interest in fighting with people on the other side of the planet or plundering their goods.

    the latter (military adventurism in the name of big bidness) is much more expensive, yet it nets me nothing as an american taxpayer.

    no, hooper, it was that "small government, big miltary" mindset that put us into this mess; so how the heck is that same "strategy" supposed to get us out of it?

    if you're interested in spending cuts, look to the no-bid military contracts and corporate subsidies first.

    Posted 1 year ago #         

39. hooper1961
    Member Profile

    i am not a republican or democrat. both parties are inept. it is time for a new political party that understands the regular joes and janes. the republicans are very annoying because they are to busy protecting the ultra rich (over a $ million for a value) and democrats have lost the fact that personal responsibility is important; for example why should the taxpayers pay welfare to someone who has a child without the means to raise it on their own. thousands of couples end up adopting children from overseas. and why do democrats not understand the plight of small business and continue to increase the b & o tax?

    i believe we spend far to much on the military and do not support corporate subsidies.

    in a better world the tax code would be simplified greatly via eliminating all tax deductions and adding a nationwide value added tax (say 2%) on consumption (not including food)

    simple (income tax) up to $50,000 k no tax (x2 for married people); $50 to 7K 5%, $75 to 125$ 10%, $125 to $250K 25%; $250 to 500K 35% and over $500K 50%. This is an example only

    Posted 1 year ago #         

40. JanS
    Member Profile

    

    because no matter what that "welfare" parent did, there is a child involved, and that's what's important in the equation. Again...you read everything as a bottom line , not a human child. I suppose only you are perfect. Yes, that woman should probably "just said no" Get over it, it ain't a perfect world. And until people like you ( and me) decide that it's up to all of us to take care of the children in this world , so this world can be better, as they ARE our future, welfare is gonna happen, my friend.

    Posted 1 year ago #         

41. hooper1961
    Member Profile

    but the fact remains the child could be a lot better off if given up for adoption versus living with a welfare dependent parent! and society is better off because limited tax dollars can be used elsewhere

    Posted 1 year ago #         

42. redblack
    Member Profile

    

    why does the b&o tax keep going up? because conservatives - like tim eyman - keep slashing other revenue bases.

    regarding income tax, you realize you just described a progressive income tax, right? it's what we currently have.

    but yes, the tax code does need to be revised, simplified, and enforced. for example, companies who do business in the u.s. but offshore their profits to avoid taxation should get hammered by the government or dissolved, and be forced to pay restitution for tax evasion.

    "limited tax dollars." feh. raise tax rates on the sectors that can afford it and eliminate loopholes.

    speaking of children, as a member of a DINK household, i resent the child tax credit just as much as i resented the marriage penalty. maybe more so. why do people get tax credits for procreating? especially when they have more than 2.3 kids? effectively (not literally!) the government pays you to have children. the more you have, the more they/we pay.

    talk about taking personal responsibility...

    Posted 1 year ago #         

43. tanyar23
    Member Profile

    I am really offended by that last comment Hoop. I was a parent who received welfare at one point. I am now a contributing tax payer and my kids are doing amazing things. But according to your philosophy they should have been adopted out. I think that providing a temporary safety net is better for families. I won't even go into the colonial history of our nation and who was oppressed in order to achieve wealth.
    Also, be prepared at the end of January to see families on TANF get kicked off. I don't want to live in the kind of society that thinks its ok to kick our children to the curbs.

    Posted 1 year ago #         

44. DP
    Member Profile

    

    Hooper, do you have any idea how heartless it sounds when you suggest that children be taken away from their parents?

    Do you say stuff like that just 'cuz you're looking for a reaction out of people, or what?

    I think you should meditate about it for a while, man. Why don't you meet me back at the topic of: "Who's your favorite leader?" or "Road Diets" or something.

    It's Christmas time, dude.
    Try to be of good cheer.

    Posted 1 year ago #         

45. hooper1961
    Member Profile

    you did not read i used the word "could" be taken away and yes some welfare parents bring up successful children but the majority do not; and yes I provide a sharp point of view to create dialogue and provide a counter to the bleeding heart liberals that are out of touch with people who work and pay taxes (the vast middle).

    Posted 1 year ago #         

46. DP
    Member Profile

    

    and yes I provide a sharp point of view to create dialogue and provide a counter to the bleeding heart liberals that are out of touch with people who work and pay taxes (the vast middle).

    OK, but there's an effective way to do that and a not-so-effective way.

    The not-so-effective way is to say something that you know is going to inflame people on the forum. (That is the classic definition of a "troll" by the way, and at this point I'd say you are coming pretty close to that.)

    When you even speculate about taking kids away from parents, it's obviously going to cause a scuffle and your message about taxpayers or whatever is going to get lost in the dust.

    I and others on this forum will gladly defend your right to speak your mind and represent the "opposite" point of view on almost any subject. But in return for that, it's reasonable to expect that you're going to be conscious about how you present that point of view.

    Take it from someone (me) who's been known to do it the wrong way.

    Posted 1 year ago #         

47. hooper1961
    Member Profile

    DP thank you for the critique

    Posted 1 year ago #         

48. TDe
    Member Profile

    Ahem... surely you're not suggesting that bleeding heart liberals are workless wonders who pay no taxes... I just got home from working my tail off and am in no mood to hear that my work or the taxes I pay do not count, just because I care about other people... i.e., bleeding heart.

    Posted 1 year ago #         

49. JanS
    Member Profile

    

    so once again, Mr. Hooper makes claims that are unverifiable. "yes some welfare parents bring up successful children but the majority do not" Could you please quote/give verifiable numbers/links/etc. where you get your information? Or do you say things just to rile people? And again...who gets to be the decider about single parents and taking their children away from them? What about a single parent whose deadbeat husband skipped town and left them with the kids? Do we yank those kids away too? Do you get to decide? If you were that parent, who would you be comfortable with deciding for you?

    I'm one of those bleeding heart liberals, my friend. You had to throw that in there...to what? Make a point? It's a catch phrase, usually heard on Faux News... I work every day..I pay taxes..I'm 63, and will probably not retire in the next 10 years. Do your friends call BS on the things you talk about with them? They should - lol...

    Posted 1 year ago #         

50. hooper1961
    Member Profile

    why should able bodied and minded people be given a handout? i believe able bodied and minded people should be responsible to take care of themselves without taxpayer assistance.

    Posted 1 year ago #         

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