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RANT - Bicyclists on Alki

Started 3 years ago by RonM
Latest reply from angelescrest

RonM
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I was driving with my wife westbound on Alki yesterday, enjoying the weather and scenery as we do occasionally. When an adult bicyclist (in his 40\'s) darted out onto the street from between two parked cars. We were doing less than 25 mph, but I slammed on the brakes and tooted the horn to let him know I was there. He wasnâ€™t looking when he entered the road and I missed him by about a foot! He glared back at me and flashed us the bird, then proceeded to keep himself planted in the center of the road at about 5-10 mph.

The reminder of the motorist who had his car smashed and was beaten up by a herd of bicyclists a couple of days ago came to mind.

There was opposing traffic so that we couldnâ€™t pass. He continued to flash the bird for a couple of blocks until we reached the stop sign at the Cactus. He barged through the intersection without stopping and we stopped and made the left turn.

I understand the desire to reduce our carbon footprint and if it were practical Iâ€™d be bicycling too. I may be 72, from a different generation, but I am driving a Prius averaging 47 mpg for crying out loud, so feel that I am doing my part. What is it about the arrogance of these tree huggers that they think they can abuse all others? If I had been someone else, he might have learned the physics of the difference between a 200 lb vehicle vs. 3,000 the hard way!

Posted 3 years ago #
SA
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I\'m not going to defend the bicyclist...

A cycling friend recently bought a Prius and I asked her, \"why\'d you do that?\" The Prius is so quiet you can\'t hear it coming up behind you. She knew of the problem and was going to get the special \"Share the Road\" license plate to offset her guilty conscience and let other cyclists know she was bike friendly.

Posted 3 years ago #
Anonymous
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Just one example of the many times a driver who is on the road and minding their own business when a ped. or cyclist darts out and is in the wrong then flips off the driver. Yeah, it really makes me want to share the road. One can only take so much and we are not getting any smaller in population around here. There is going to be an \"incident\" one of these days, I can smell it.

Posted 3 years ago #
Erik
Member Profile

The bicyclist was a jerk, he probably acts the same way behind the wheel of a car or as a pedestrian...a pattern is a pattern.
I ride my bike all the time...for exercise, not for some stupid carbon footprint BS. It\'s been said many times on here that common courtesy by all parties works well when sharing paths/roads. :-)

Posted 3 years ago #
Anonymous
Member Profile

Lots of a_holes around these days in cars, on foot, and on bikes, that\'s for sure. A few bad apples spoil the bunch. I wonder why people get so pissed at bikers though? Is it because they are the minority, much more often to flip off drivers, disrupt traffic flow, etc.. or is it madening to drivers because the bikers are much more fragile? I\'d be more up set if I almost hit a biker vs almost hitting a car because the car occupant would be much more likely to survive so the careless actions of the biker are less tolerable/excusable. I know not all bikers are jerks but there are enough of you out there that give all the rest a bad name.

Posted 3 years ago #
rahvas
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There is a very expensive bike path on Alki and Harbor. Bicyclists don\'t need to interact with traffic as much as they choose to. They are operating a moving vehicle and subject to the same road rules as cars when on the road. The guy driving the prius did the right thing. The bicyclist should have been ticketed by the cops for cutting the guy off. But bad drivers are never the ones who get caught, are they?

Posted 3 years ago #
vincent
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rahvas: please see the extensive bitching by pedestrians about cyclists in the other tread about the bike path. While your at it, read my post above.

Posted 3 years ago #
Erik
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Rahvas - Have you ever tried to ride on the bike path...lol. It\'s actually safer to ride on the street.

Posted 3 years ago #
JanS
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Vincent...read the original post. The biker darted out from between two parked cars into the roadway....the biker did NOT look to see if a car was coming, and car only missed hitting him by a foot...then said biker has the nerve to flip the driver off when he honks his horn because it was a DANGEROUS maneuver.

In my book the bicyclist was just being a (selfish)jerk...and we all realize that not all bicyclists are like that. This one was in the wrong, it seems, not the driver.

Get over always blaming the driver, please.

Posted 3 years ago #
Anonymous
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Vincent must be a biker, (not that here is anything wrong with that).

Posted 3 years ago #
rahvas
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I read your post, that\'s why I responded. Pedestrians should share the path with the cyclists and maybe not be so meandering. But having moved back from Portland, a very bike friendly town. I find the Seattle cyclists are way more aggressive and inconsiderate than their more numerous compratriots to the south. Granted, seattle could provide more bike routes, Delridge would be a good place to start, but Harbor and Alki are not places where cyclists need to be getting snippy with motorists. As some of the other threads have noted, congestion in general down there is heavy, so everybody needs to be more considerate. You berated a 72 year person for honking at someone who cut him off. Unnecessarily. Then proceeded to drive under the speed limit and flip him/her off. Please excuse me for disagreeing with your defense of someone unworthy all in the name of your muddy cause.

Posted 3 years ago #
RonM
Member Profile

Vincent,

I\'m glad it wasn\'t you on the bicycle! If it had been and I had read your post above, you would have been flattened on the roadbed even if I had to take the time to explain your disregard of traffic rules! You help explain the arrogance of that bicyclist who thought he owned the road, disregarding all others around him (there were families and children on the side observing the whole thing).

Posted 3 years ago #
vincent
Member Profile

janS: Ok, I forgot you know the mindset of every bicyclist and my obvious explanation of what probably occurred is simply too fanciful for you to fathom. I have NEVER seen any of these things actually occur on the road either.

also, drivers are always without any guilt, even when they are in cars that have enough issues with *not* making noise that congress addressed it.
http://www.opencongress.org/bill/110-h5734/show

I blame the driver due to his hypocrisy in the matter. I have a hard time blaming you for your misunderstanding, because of how hard life is for you, and how easy it is for you to blather on as a expert on every post.

Posted 3 years ago #
WSB
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http://westseattleblog.com/blog/?page_id=9540

Posted 3 years ago #
rahvas
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I ahve ridden the bike path many times as a cyclist. I have rollerbladed and walked it. we all share this community. Bikers don\'t deserve a more fluid path than anyone else. navigating the obstacles is part of the skill set it takes. If you want to race smoothly find a track somewhere dedicated to that. If you want no obstacles there are plenty of good stationary bikes you can put in your house. Drivers on the road already have enough obstacles to look out for. Cyclists should be considerate and hey, maybe look out for their own safety? I\'d be devasted to hit a person. But I\'m not going to jail if some jack*** cuts in front of me. Jeez

Posted 3 years ago #
vincent
Member Profile

rahvas: I never said the bicyclist was guilt free. But based on the OP\'s tone he seems to feel like he had been victimized in some way thats nonsensical.

re pdx cyclists: riders in pdx have many laws on there side that makes drivers much more wary of the altercations that are common in Seattle. The law is ambiguous in many cases and cyclists have much more to lose when run over. so they tend to be more aggressive.

which segways nicely into why a dude would flip off some random guy who is honking at him. Honking at people riding is seriously lame and unsafe. What would you have the cyclist do? Stop in traffic to address your concern? Dart onto the sidewalk? Its idiotic to expect any *good* outcome from honking at someone on a bike.

I agree people just need to chill out, but I dont see this as black at white as the OP is trying to make it out as.

WSB glossary update= OP = origional poster

Posted 3 years ago #
SA
Member Profile

Honking your horn in an aggressive manner is not ok. Lightly tooting or tapping your horn as described by the OP is fine if you want to warn the cyclist of your presence... typically done before passing the cyclist.

Understand that cyclists mainly use their hearing to detect traffic approaching from behind and can be easily startled by quiet vehicles like the ever more common hybrids.

Posted 3 years ago #
rahvas
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If you want to ride the road expect the same treatment as a car driver,i.e being honked at for irresponsible driving/riding. balck and white to me.

Posted 3 years ago #
Bayou
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Of course biking has it\'s advantages in many ways- it\'s a clean alternative method of travel and it\'s great exercise. I completely support those that do it while respecting the rules of the road.

However, the problem that I have with many (certainly not all) of the cyclists that I meet on the road is that they REFUSE to obey traffic laws. I can\'t tell you how many close calls I\'ve had picking up my partner in the I.D. What is so confusing about a red light or a stop sign? They both translate to STOP for everyone, last time I checked.

Posted 3 years ago #
vincent
Member Profile

wow RonM! such a tempered response from you!

mind giving me your license plate so I know which prius to shoot at because you have just threated me with deadly force?

way to pave the way for understanding.

I know this is really hard for you to understand, based on your insistent arrogance, but the bicyclist do own the road. Along with everyone else who pays taxes on their home. People like to go off about licensing and gas taxes, which are irrelevant to bikes on roads.

lets try all caps so you can skim the main points.

the dude on the bike was hugging the curb, so cars could pass. YOU DIDNT SEE HIM. bikes are allowed by law, TO TAKE THE WHOLE LANE AS A VECHICLE, they are also allowed to GO SLOWER THAN THE SPEED LIMIT WHEN TAKING THE LANE.

Yeah the dude flipped you off, boo hoo. Build a bridge and get over it. Sorry your big tough ego couldn\'t handle a dude gesturing at you, after you honked at him in traffic, which as above, is LAME AND DANGEROUS.

Posted 3 years ago #
datamuse
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the dude on the bike was hugging the curb, so cars could pass

Say what? I didn\'t see that in the original description of the incident.

Posted 3 years ago #
vincent
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datamuse: yeah I did, but you have to read it between the lines of the Whippersnappers on bikes deserve to be run over rhetoric.

I offered a couple of explanations of what happened and why. It then spun into, DAMN THOSE BIKES I HATES EM ALL AND THEY DESERVE IT.

Posted 3 years ago #
Erik
Member Profile

This reminds me of my last trip to visit mom at the \'adult\' park in AZ. What was the hot topic?
Bikes vs Peds vs golf carts...and the speeding propane guy...lol, same ole s&^t.

Posted 3 years ago #
JanS
Member Profile

I suppose I equate a bicyclist darting out into traffic from between two cars without looking to a child playing who darts out without looking. What would have been devastating is if the driver had actually hit him because of this. This could have been much worse than flaming words thrown back and forth on a forum...so lets agree, maybe the driver shouldn\'t have honked, but perhaps the bicyclist should have been a bit more observant, and not so quick to flip someone off. Maybe share the road goes both ways? Just a thought..

Posted 3 years ago #
roundthesound
Member Profile

I was ridding my bike on the path yesterday and I rang my bell at a group of people and I hear \"how cute, she has a little bell\"; did they move out of the way, no. So the bike path sucks sometimes, doesn\'t mean you need to bring that aggression out onto the road when you could be running into a car instead of a bunch of jerk-face pedestrians. Yeah, its the law that you can take the whole lane as a bicyclist but that doesn\'t mean it\'s going to hurt any less when you get hit by a car.

Posted 3 years ago #
RonM
Member Profile

Never thought this would be such a polarizing topic! The simple fact is that the ignorant bicyclist suddenly appeared in front of the car from between two parked cars without looking. Had he hesitated or deviated his path or slowed, he\'d been a hood ornament on my car. I merely tapped the horn to let him know I was there. It obviously angered him and he intentionally gave me the finger, slowed, and prevented me and the cars behind me from passing him. Ignorance and arrogance, just the recipe we need in West Seattle? NOT!

Posted 3 years ago #
JanS
Member Profile

round the sound..sorry the peds were a bit slow in their...umm...what? lack of response? Yeah, I am a ped, and for sure I\'d get out of your way...well, I wouldn\'t be in the bike path at all unless I was crossing the street. I like the bell idea, but mebbe you need a loudspeaker hooked up...lol..maybe they\'d get it then...

Posted 3 years ago #
austin
Member Profile

Drivers pissed at bikers need to chill.
Bikers pissed at drivers need to chill.
Relax and get over it.

Posted 3 years ago #
glocson
Member Profile

And the argument goes on and on. Everyone needs to share the road. Just get off my bike path! LOL just kidding. I know everyone gets butt hurt over that statement. I would love to get slightly injured by a motorist. I want some insurance money. So if any rich Prius driving person coming back from PCC wants to bump me and cause a moderate amount of injury come on with it.

Posted 3 years ago #
JanS
Member Profile

austin..couldn\'t agree more..

Posted 3 years ago #
Magpie
Member Profile

I was walking across the cross walk today with the green light and a bike rider blew through the red light and almost plowed in to me..my first reaction was a wish to knock him off his bike, it was a very red light, all of the cars had long stopped...unfortunately, I don\'t carry a horn on my body and I don\'t weigh anywhere near 3000 lbs. I think the bottom line here is that everyone needs to start considering their surroundings and be much more considerate of their fellow humans whether they are biking, walking or driving. Doesn\'t this really boil down to a bunch of selfish people thinking that they are the only ones with rights? I could go on and on about the families of bikers in the junction that use the sidewalk and ride behind me while I am walking yelling \"on your left\"..the sidewalk in the junction isn\'t a bike path...(and yes, you bikers, I always have the right of way on the sidewalk) and I don\'t walk on the bike path on alki.

Posted 3 years ago #
rampinrodney
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Many of these Lance wannabes think they are SOOOO special.....I especially love their hot bicycle gear and their holier than thou attitudes....oh! they are so hot....

Posted 3 years ago #
datamuse
Member Profile

The Prius definitely is quiet...I drive one and recently scared the hell out of bicyclists in Vancouver, though not on purpose--there are a lot more of them there than here.

The real problem here seems to be that someone darted out into the street without looking, something I thought most of us learned not to do when our parents taught us about traffic intersections.

Posted 3 years ago #
Anonymous
Member Profile

RonM you are totally in the right as far as I am concerend. Your rant is reasonable and justified. Jerks on bikes or in cars, take note, you are not wanted in this community.

I could kind of understand rude behavior on I 5 or I 90 but when it\'s in a neighborhood, why be an ass to your neighbor? Like, if one lane is closed on Admiral way, don\'t cut to the front of all of your neighbors, be neighborly.. You are not just on your way out of town, you are only headed one place unless you are taking the long way to I 5 by heading west on Admiral.

Posted 3 years ago #
glocson
Member Profile

Hi, I just wanted to say that I love how this car vs. bike thing is such a big argument and debate.

Posted 3 years ago #
vincent
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we have always been at war with oceania

Posted 3 years ago #
bcollins
Member Profile

Since glocson has now commented a couple of times on this topic, I view it as a personal invitation to me. The cyclist was a jerk and unlike the ped vs cyclist subject from weeks back...the motorist would not be charged with any infraction if he hit the cyclist...if the cyclist emerged mid-block between cars as outlined. Cyclist must obey street laws if in the street.

I\'m not an advocate of hitting cyclists, but sometimes they reap what is sown. I prefer that we should all just try to get a long.

Posted 3 years ago #
Irukandji
Member Profile

These threads almost scared me out of buying a bike. Fortunately, I\'m no Lance Wannabe, I\'m just looking to get out with the kid and have a pleasant and safe ride. Wish me luck!

Posted 3 years ago #
tsunaminw
Member Profile

Actually we don\'t need to \"chill\". Chilling is a state of mind and doesn\'t actually change dangerous or stupid behaviour, just how you respond to it.

Idiot bicycles need to use the bike lane built for them. They need to stop being rude, stop riding side by side holding up traffic, stop wanting it both ways pretending to be a car when it benefits them but running lights etc when it does not. I catch a biker trying that stuff every now and then, and I pass them without crissing the midle line, getting as close as I can and then sliding over slowly so they cannot get by. I don\'t care if it helps or hurts but it does make me feel better and may encourage them to use the damn bike lane or use some manners.

Walkers need to stay off the bike lane too, this is why alot of riders use the street. You mention to strolling people when they are obliviously blocking the bike lane that you are there and this is a bike lane, and they flip you off too. Until I turn the bike around and have a little chat about their manners.

Greenlake doesn\'t seem to have this issue but the cops do seem to enforce the wheels/feet lanes better.

I ride a bike, drive, live, and walk Alki. I have a home on the strip. I love it. But am always amazied by the idiots.

\"Chilling\" just allows this stuff to continue. It may make the hippies feel like they are better people but accomplishes nothing.
It takes someone standing up and saying something even when unpopular to get something done. I understand some don\'t have the courage to do this, so people like us will do your job for you while you chill.

Posted 3 years ago #
vincent
Member Profile

tsunaminw:

Your basically saying you like to run bikes off the road. Half of your statements contradict the law, which I could post here, but I am sure you don\'t care.

I enjoyed your little self righteous tirade because its filled with ignorance and verbal vomit. Your concept of manners is the only think idiotic here, and its liable to get someone seriously injured either from your car, or yourself when someone drags you out of the window and leaves you bloodied for veering into them with a vehicle.

THE LAWS REFERENCED ABOVE:

RIDING TWO ABREAST LEGAL

Section 11.44.060 RIDING MORE THAN TWO ABREAST PROHIBITED. Persons operating bicycles upon a roadway or sidewalk shall not ride more than two abreast except on paths or parts of roadways set aside for the exclusive use of bicycles.

USING WHOLE LANE LEGAL

Section 11.44.040 RIDING ON ROADWAYS. Every person operating a bicycle upon a roadway at a speed slower than the normal and reasonable flow of motor vehicle traffic thereon shall ride as near to the right side of the right through lane as is safe, except as may be appropriate while preparing to make or while making turning movements, or while overtaking and passing another bicycle or vehicle proceeding in the same direction. A person operating a bicycle upon a roadway that carries traffic in one direction only and that has two or more marked traffic lanes may ride as near to the left side of the left through lane as is safe. A person operating a bicycle upon a roadway may utilize the shoulder of the roadway or any specifically designated bicycle lane if such exists.

SPLITTING LANES LEGAL

Section 11.53.200 OVERTAKING A VEHICLE ON THE LEFT. The operator of a vehicle overtaking another vehicle proceeding in the same direction shall pass to the left of such overtaken vehicle at a safe distance and shall not again drive to the right side of the roadway until safely clear of the overtaken vehicle.

BICYCLES HAVE ALL RIGHTS AS CARS ON THE ROAD

Section 11.44.020 RIGHTS AND DUTIES OF RIDER. Every person operating a bicycle upon a roadway shall be granted all of the rights and shall be subject to all of the duties applicable to a driver of a vehicle, except as to the special regulation of this chapter and except as to those provisions of the Traffic Code which by their nature can have no application.

Posted 3 years ago #
JanS
Member Profile

the way I see things..which in the realm of things isn\'t very important...is that there are people on both sides of this argument that like to fuel things....glocson with his/her \"I love/live to piss off drivers\" (which in some instances just might get you shot, if road rage exists), and drivers who like to pass a bicyclist as close as possible to give a..what? a warning? (which can get your a$$ in a bit of trouble if you really hit said bicyclist, worse if you hit and kill hir.

So, who\'s right? neither in my book...you all give lip service to \"share the road\", but you don\'t practice one bit what you preach...both are instigators, and really not being truthful..JMHO.

Posted 3 years ago #
glocson
Member Profile

I don\'t mean to be rude. Just matter of fact. Sorry(not really) for the true feelings I have. Geez I how I do love this blog!

Posted 3 years ago #
tsunaminw
Member Profile

Rude behaviour IS bad with both cars and drivers. Both are unacceptable. But at a certain point, whether I90 or my neighborhood tolerating and overlooking it doesn\'t seem to change anything. It takes someone standing up and saying enough.

Some may not like how the message is delivered, and nobody is perfect. My reactions may at times be off base, Im human too. But the thing is I shouldn\'t have to tell you at all, you make it my job to try and find the perfect way to say or correct your bad manners? I shouldn\'t have to say anything at all. You take care of how you act, and you won\'t have to worry about what I say or do about it.

What this really is, is an effort by bicyclists to continue to act this was and have everyone else be ok with it and not react. Life doesn\'t work that way.

Posted 3 years ago #
vincent
Member Profile

tsunaminw: Contrary to the view from the top of your inflated ego, its not your job to regulate rude behavior. Sorry people in this country have a right to pretty much act however they like.

Your self imposed ideals don\'t give you the right to scoff the actual law and take it into your own hands. And I guarantee you, if you endanger someone with these antics you seem to prescribe to. You are going to get physically assaulted in self defense.

Posted 3 years ago #
roundthesound
Member Profile

So do I hear an interest in an Alki critical mass?!

Posted 3 years ago #
vincent
Member Profile

Only if we wear these:
http://www.gotpollution.com/products.html

in response to this:
http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/local/374066_badair08.html

Posted 3 years ago #
JenV
Member Profile

I have been verbally and physically assaulted by bikers twice- and I did nothing more than honk at them for pulling out right in front of me- one ran a stop sign, and the other swerved into my lane on a blind corner. It was a honk to say \"hey, what the hell? you\'re going to get yourself hit!\" ...and when I got to the stop light there was this spandex-clad warrior, hitting my car and spitting on me. Nice behavior there, guys. This is the picture that I have of bike riders in the city. they think the law doesn\'t apply to them, but then whine when cars \"don\'t share the road\". I steer clear of them & give them a wide berth 99% of the time, but dammit, if you do something stupid in front of me I will honk at you. And if you come up to my car next time, you will get a door in the groin and the cops called on you.

(in full disclosure, I love bikes, I ride bikes. Just not on the street. Bike paths only for me.)

Posted 3 years ago #
vincent
Member Profile

jenV:

How did you get physically assaulted? it seems like your car was spit on, but thats doesn\'t fit any definition of assault.

I understand the whole glass houses thing, but with so many drivers out there who apparently never break any laws ( speeding, seatbelt cellphone or otherwise ) Where do you get the notion that your some how assisting someone who is doing something that requires balance by startling them with a horn?

Also on following the law, maybe you should follow your own advice?

HONKING ILLEGAL

http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/local/329092_honk27.html?source=mypi

RCW 46.37.380: Every motor vehicle when operated upon a highway shall be equipped with a horn in good working order and capable of emitting sound audible under normal conditions from a distance of not less than two hundred feet, but no horn or other warning device may emit an unreasonably loud or harsh sound or a whistle. The driver of a motor vehicle shall when reasonably necessary to insure safe operation give audible warning with his horn but shall not otherwise use such horn when upon a highway.

Posted 3 years ago #
JenV
Member Profile

had I not shut my window, he would have hit me. Instead, he got my car. Satisfied?

I am not going to give up my horn, or my finger- if someone is doing something that places me and themselves in danger. Boo hoo, I startled him when he needed his balance? PUH-LEEEEZE. They both had balance enough to run a stop sign and swerve into my lane. No sympathy here.

Posted 3 years ago #
JanS
Member Profile

JenV...thank you for that. It seems that the cyclists that are on here seem to feel that they\'re never in the wrong. If they want to be on the road, they have to get used to honking, etc. , even if the person doing the honking is not honking at them. Bicyclists make mistakes...they don\'t all obey the laws, they get in your face, and we\'re just supposed to sit and act like they have every right to be that way? NO..we\'re better than that. I expect bicyclists to be as courteous to me as I am to them...and I am. I will go 10 mph an hour behind you for the 3 blocks that you decide to hold up traffic...I will allow you a wide berth if I finally decide to go around you when it\'s safe.. And I\'d like you to be as courteous to me when you\'re riding as you would be if we were sitting across a table from one another. Yeah, I have a car, too bad. In your perfect world, drivers wouldn\'t exist...sharing the road? yeah, right!!

It\'a all about attitude...

Posted 3 years ago #

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