I know this has been pointed to before, but for the life of me I can't find it/remember. Can anyone tell me where they have the reasoning for 30 mph on the hill we talk about so often around here? Is it residential? Again, I can't remember. Trying to help some folks on Reddit understand the whole reason why this is 30 mph:
Related link:
http://www.reddit.com/r/Seattle/comments/fmoxn/west_seattle_drivers_another_speed_trap_coming/
Lindsey
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RarelyEver
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i figured there had to have been a discussion on here regarding the admiral hill speed limit.. and, well, SIX PAGES LATER (lol) i realize that i'm not the only one with an opinion about it.
i've been driving that way pretty much every day on my way to work for the past six years, and i think the 30 mph limit SUCKS. SO. HARD. for anyone concerned about pedestrians i have a question: WHAT pedestrians??? i don't recall one instance where i thought, "whoa, lookit that guy, he's an accident waiting to happen for everyone going more than 30 right now!".
personally, i think the answer to hooper's initial question as to why the city lowered the speed limit is, because of the revenue created by ticketing people who think 30 is just ridiculous for the conditions of that stretch of road.
redblack
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rarely ever: what i want to know is WHAT. IS THE FREAKING. RUSH?
are you in a hurry to get to the stop lights at the north end, or the bottleneck at the south end?
revenue!
the city has zero technical justification and in the accident rate went up (less safe) since the arbitrary fantasy limit was instituted. the prior 35 MPH limit was safer (lower accident rate than now) and reasonable and the city has zero technical justification for the lowering of the limit.
It is 30mph so the city can generate money from tickets to pay for city BOONDOGGLES! IT IS NOT ABOUT SAFETY...IT IS ABOUT GREED!
austin
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"IT IS NOT ABOUT SAFETY...IT IS ABOUT GREED! "
You could say the same thing about the people who Need to drive too fast.
austin...perfectly said!! :)
redblack
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sigh. okay, hooper.
what's the 85th percentile speed before and after?
how much did accidents increase, either by percentage or by numbers?
The absence of pedestrians can actually serve as a good indicator that speed is a problem, because most people will avoid walking on streets adjacent to speeding cars. The noise level increases dramatically over 30mph. Entire neighborhoods should not be subject to drastic reductions in quality of life just because an arrogant few imagine themselves so important that they dare not be delayed for a few seconds. Speed efficiency studies do not take valid issues such as neighborhood impact into account. I wish they'd set up speed traps in my area.
Cait
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Anonyme - it could be because there's no freakin' sidewalk on one side. That an indicator to me as a pedestrian that its an unsafe street and not intended for me. And I don't understand the crosswalk situation. Are you crossing TO or FROM the grassy hill with no concrete and if so, why? The bus stops are at the top and bottom of the hill and easily accessed without really traversing much of the stretch we're talking about here...
I think you're right about pedestrians not feeling welcome, I just disagree about WHY.
When people complain about the speed limit in this area and how it needs to be increased, I wonder how fast those folks really think it should be. You would be ticketed going 42 in a 35, and technically justified (though unlikely) in a 40. The speed limit is currently 30 and most people think 5 miles over the posted limit is a non-offense and drive with that in mind. So, truly people are at least driving 35 on that stretch. Basically, when people say they think the speed limit should be raised to 35+, they are probably thinking they will be able to drive 40+.
Either way, it makes no sense to rant about a speeding ticket unless signs are obstructed or the officer's speed reading was faulty. Drivers need to comply with what's posted, not what they THINK should be the appropriate speed. I completely understand how much it sucks to get a ticket, though. I've had plenty. :(
Cait, are you suggesting that pedestrians have a right to be on the street only for certain reasons - like walking directly to and from a bus stop? Do you really believe that people should not be able to walk freely in their own neighborhoods, yet people in vehicles should not only have unlimited access, but at high speeds? Why should pedestrians, many of them property owners (and taxpayers) have to provide justification for having the audacity to WALK somewhere? Many neighborhoods, Arbor Heights for example, do not have sidewalks. My property is not accessible by sidewalk on any side. How would you suggest I get home? Levitation?
Cait
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What I'm taking issue with is the fact that it's not clearly a sidewalk, not that people can't walk on it. If it was more clear that there was sidewalk on the other side and that pedestrians use that area for crossing, this might not be such an issue.
dobro
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More unsolicited advice- drive the posted speed limit whether you think its correct or not-otherwise you're breaking the law and deserve the ticket you get whether or not you think the police are just making money for the city. don't like the limit? Talk to your city council member and local legislators and try to change it lawfully.
Rule of Law 101. What's so hard to understand?
Every so often I need to cycle up Admiral. And because people drive so freaking fast, especially at the top of of the hill where the bikes join the traffic flow (yes it's a bad transition) it's extremely dangerous - due mostly to drivers exceeding the speed limit.
I agree with the statement made above that some people actively avoid this street as peds/cyclists precisely because it is NOT agreeable to travel outside of a car, usually during rush hour when drivers are particularly aggressive.
Just because one doesn't see a cyclist/ped on the 20 second ascent/descent in your car doesn't mean that they aren't there. I don't see a red truck every day but that doesn't mean they don't exist.
About 7 years ago, as I was doing about 42 up the hill, a pedestrian decided it was a good idea to attempt to cross the street (how dare she). The car in front of me stopped for her (how dare they). I had to slam on my brakes to avoid hitting the car in front of me that had stopped so unexpectedly. I am convinced that if I had been going 30 my deceleration would have been far less abrupt and the glass piece worth several hundred dollars I was bringing home as a donation to a local charity would not have slid off my seat and onto the floor where it shattered into hundreds of pieces. Shame on me for speeding, shame on me for not securing my art. I don't blame the pedestrian, the car in front of me, the speed limit, the SPD or anyone but ME. Now I do 30 and don't whine about it.
"I am convinced that if I had been going 30 my deceleration would have been far less abrupt and the glass piece worth several hundred dollars I was bringing home as a donation to a local charity would not have slid off my seat and onto the floor where it shattered into hundreds of pieces."
So by your logic let's just make it 20! What's the hurry?
West Seattle Art Attack...
great illustration.
cait
when the sidewalk is on one side of the road and the bus stop is on the other..
people have no choice but to cross the road to get to the bus stop
just about at the point of the hill (going both ways) where everyone seems to think 40+ mph is appropriate
it's not a good combination
If it was 20 I would drive that speed and not whine about it (much). OR, I would be prepared to get a ticket now and then. (thanks for not pointing out my terrible sentence structure;-))
redblack
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smitty: well, it's good to see that subtlety isn't lost on you.
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