charlabob
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"If this is going to be a Christian nation that doesn't help the poor, either we've got to pretend that Jesus was just as selfish as we are, or we've got to acknowledge that he commanded us to love the poor and serve the needy without condition, and then admit that we just don't want to do it."
Steven Colbert
Steven Colbert is wonderful !
Is it nations that are Christian?
Or is it people?
DP...for us, I believe that it's people...but there are people here that believe it's the nation...and that's erroneous, IMHO....we are free to worship (or not worship) as we please here....that's what it was all about originally, wasn't it?
Who says we do not help the poor? Look at the stats as to how much Americans give to charity vs other countries. The closest is Germany which is roughly 14 Billion behind. Could we do more yes
charlabob
Member Profile
Steven was referring to the distinction we often make between helping the poor and helping the deserving poor. If you actually read the words of Christ, as translated by the disciples (he didn't write -- probably not literate), He didn't make such a distinction.
"When we present Jesus as a pro-war, anti-poor, anti-homosexual, anti-environment, pro-nuclear weapons authority figure draped in an American flag, I think we are making a travesty of the portrait of Jesus we find in the gospels."
-- Brian McLaren
sam-c
Member Profile
thank you for posting these quotes in post 1 and 7; i appreciate the opportunity to read them, and hope to reflect on them as I go about my daily life, whether it is Christmas or the rest of the year.
Yes, Ken, but who WAS the real Jesus anyway?
Was He a pacifist?
"There will always be wars and rumors of wars . . ."
—Matthew 24:6-7
Was He anti-gubmint?
"Render unto Caesar that which is Caesar's . . ."
—Mark 12:17
Was He pro-poor (in the sense of being against social classes)?
While He was in Bethany at the home of Simon the leper, and reclining at the table, there came a woman with an alabaster vial of very costly perfume of pure nard; and she broke the vial and poured it over His head. But some were indignantly remarking to one another, “Why has this perfume been wasted? “For this perfume might have been sold for over three hundred denarii, and the money given to the poor.” And they were scolding her. But Jesus said, “Let her alone; why do you bother her? She has done a good deed to Me. “For you always have the poor with you, and whenever you wish you can do good to them; but you do not always have Me."
—Mark 14:3-7
I'm not contradicting you here, Ken. I agree with McLaren's basic sentiment; the gospels do largely portray Jesus as a friend to the poor.
But ironically, He was also an enemy to the poor, to the extent that the gospels discourage poor people from taking action here on Earth to end poverty.
Also, technically Jesus was wrong when He claimed that the poor will always be (have always been) with us. The poor weren't with us, in fact, until we invented personal property and social classes. Most of human existence occurred before there was any such concept as "poverty" in the sense Jesus meant it.
—To which some people might respond: Well, that was before civilization, so it's the same diff.
—But to me, the fact that there was a time when humans existed more-or-less happily, in an essentially classless society, is important, because it demonstrates that we could, if we wanted, live happily in such a society again.
Sure, we'd have to do a little retooling . . . starting with our imaginations.
When I was a kid, I used to pray every night for a new bike. Then I realized that God doesn't work that way. So I stole a bike and asked Him to forgive me.
-- Marvin
The good thing about believing in Jesus is that there are so many Jesuses to choose from! He's like the designer deity, you know what I mean?
Perfect for our modern, consumer-driven society.
With the Koran, it's pretty much the same dude all the way through the story.
BORING!!!
There is truth in what many of you say but what is your goal? We (followers of Judeo Christian ethic) help so many people in so many ways. If you just want to attack Christians go ahead. They don't need you. Is there hypocrisy? Of course. I am not religious but I understand the basis of a relatively free nation like ours needs standards. We use them to try and live up to them. We fail. We are forgiven. Some have completely forgotten the values they might need to try to follow and don't fare so well. Others try to follow and come up short. Many are overly critical. Over time I have high hopes that the judgemental will become meek. Until the aliens that made up the Gods come back, we just have to guess, don't we? (Wink)
HMCRich
The dissonance seems to be between those who talk about values and those who live them
The Kinks - Father Christmas - HQ AUDIO
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3xEopHCtEUo
I'd say, stop the holidays. Just try to be reasonable daily. I don't like the flash and glitz and hyperbole. Whew. I always look forward to New Years when people can behave normally again.
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