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1. Jiggers
   Member Profile

   

   Thousands of people take to the streets..

   click,
   http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/44912532/ns/world_news/?gt1=43001

   Posted 7 months ago #         

2. anonyme
   Member Profile

   Jiggers, I take it you're supporting this movement; if so, I am with you. It's long overdue. I feel a tiny bit of hope that such actions represent a turning tide against this new age of imperialism. Alternatively, it could just be a lot of dumbasses who like to start fires and break stuff. Only time will tell.

   Posted 7 months ago #         

3. Yardvark
   Member Profile

   

   The outcome is up to you, anonyme.

   They look (mostly) pretty normal to me:
   http://www.king5.com/home/Thousands-protest-in--131923893.html

   Posted 7 months ago #         

4. 365Stairs
   Member Profile

   

   Yes...normal dumbasses...(sorry DP...I couldn't resist and if you would like to retract your offer to escort me down there on Nov. 1st...I'll understand).

   Not one person interviewed or anyone supporting this vocally has explained what WILL or could possibly change by these efforts in this manner. Gibberish demands...I hear rumors of $$ burning...real productive stuff.

   We all share Frustration...Passion and Resolve ...but that aside...please educate those of us not in favor of of this occupy process on the actual outcome - not Hope...not potential...but the tangible change this will bring...

   Anything short of real results will be wasted time...$$$$...and good hygene...

   Posted 7 months ago #         

5. kootchman
   Member Profile

   Jiggers..this has made your month... there are a WHOLE lot of congressman who hope like hell they don't connect the dots.

   Posted 7 months ago #         

6. JanS
   Member Profile

   

   365 Stairs. If this majority of unhappy with thesystem people remained silent, then those in power would ASSume that all must agree with the way things are. So...now people are speaking up, and, if nothing else, they - those in power, may finally understand the unhappiness there is amongst the "little people"...you know...US !

   Posted 7 months ago #         

7. Yardvark
   Member Profile

   

   My impression was that most of the demonstrators are aware that much of this boils down to separating money from politics. That seems to be a pretty recurrent and widely supported theme. Most issues simply flow from that.

   But I can't speak for everyone down there. If you question whether or not the demonstrators are informed, or feel you can help guide them back to reality, I'd simply encourage you to go down there and speak to some of them.

   One of the things that hasn't been highlighted is that there are a lot of people down there from all different viewpoints having actual conversations about how to solve our challenges. Some very conservative, some very liberal, some just plain practical. Americans of all stripes seem to be acknowledging that our system is pretty broken and we can't just shrug our shoulders and hope it gets better.

   Whatever your viewpoint, you might consider heading down there to share your thoughts and try to keep an open mind about the thoughts that others might have. You might change someone's mind for the better or even gain some insight.

   Posted 7 months ago #         

8. WorldCitizen
   Member Profile

   

   Yardvark:

   I agree about the money needing to be separated from politics. I just wish there was a little more unification in making that a central, clear theme.

   There does seem to be a mish-mosh of ideas floating around which would seem to fit in the potential formation of another political party. However, if the group could just coalesce around one thing that would make the biggest impact (IMHO taking all private money out of politics) then maybe the people currently in power could realize in order to stay there they need to listen to what's going on.

   I have to admit, I'm pretty skeptical as to weather those in power really have the stomach, or desire for real change. The perks of being on the hill are supposed to be pretty nice from what I hear.

   Posted 7 months ago #         

9. 365Stairs
   Member Profile

   

   JanS...Yardvark...thank you...I will go down there...with DP on Nov. 1st...because...I want to know how these innovative ideas are going to matriculate into tangible solutions...not gibberish demands and futile whining against police officers trying to do their jobs.

   Posted 7 months ago #         

10. Yardvark
    Member Profile

    

    Good to hear, 365.

    There's a lot of individuals in the movement so there'll be a lot of opinions. Everyone is coming to this from different experiences. It won't be anything like listening to the talking heads on Sunday morning who just read off the same scripted talking points from their respective parties. You probably won't hear a contrived party platform of any sort. Actual individuals. Actual opinions. Actual differences. Actual dedication to achieving tangible solutions.

    Just as a note from the actual events, those that whine against the police officers are often shouted down by the demonstrators. There's a lot of respect shown for the Police since, of course, they are widely acknowledged as being part of the 99%. Nonetheless, there will always be a few folks who have a bone to pick with the Police for whatever reason. Those incidents aren't representative at all but they can make for good TV.

    Posted 7 months ago #         

11. kootchman
    Member Profile

    I am part of the 53%... and that is even more burdensome.

    Posted 7 months ago #         

12. JanS
    Member Profile

    

    http://ordinary-gentlemen.com/eliasisquith/2011/10/14/the-53-tumblr-may-be-heartbreaking-but-its-definitely-confusing/

    I contend that the 53% is also part of the 99%...you're just too stubborn to admit it...

    Posted 7 months ago #         

13. JoB
    Member Profile

    perhaps the point is that solutions will require a collaborative effort...

    Posted 7 months ago #         

14. kootchman
    Member Profile

    Not stubborn, just recognizing that the burdens of carrying the self proclaimed "99%" making our ranks smaller and smaller... it's not the 230 million per year CEO that makes our ranks thinner... it's the spending and promises that do. No CEO takes over 1/2 of my income.. governments do.

    Posted 7 months ago #         

15. JanS
    Member Profile

    

    you simply don't get it, do you?

    Posted 7 months ago #         

16. JoB
    Member Profile

    kootchman...

    have you tracked your portfolio lately?

    that sucking sound you hear when you open those records is one of those CEOs sticking his hands in your pocket.

    not at 50% loss yet?
    give them some more rope and they will gladly hang you with it

    Posted 7 months ago #         

17. Jiggers
    Member Profile

    

    One thing,don't mess with the women on this blog, they'll put you in back your place, gently that is....lol

    Posted 7 months ago #         

18. csw2119
    Member Profile

    

    I was stunned to see "Occupy" photos/videos from around the world. This movement is growing fast.

    I'm surprised how many people are against it, or don't understand in general (yes, the waters are a little muddied right now, but there are so many issues). I believe Yardvark is correct, one of the very top issues is separating money and politic (that is exactly what my sign says). This movement will continue to grow and take better shape.

    For the people who don't think protesting will accomplish anything. . . .have you ever heard of the Civil Rights Movement?

    I would encourage everyone to come down to Westlake Park on a Sat. The crowd is mainly middle class citizens, some working, some not, some retired, young families with their children, and students.

    I do not agree with some of the movements views (keeping tents in Westlake, to me, it takes the focus off the issues), but most people at the park on Sat. have the same issues/concerns as I do, bank bailout, forclosures, corporations and politicians in bed together, jobs. Those are the top issues I am seeing.

    I have been to the park for the past two Sat., it's interesting and exciting to be in this movement. Change will come. In just 2 months the movement has gone global!! Even reaching small towns throughout the US.

    Come down on Sat. anytime during the day. I talked with one of the police officers last week, he said the crowd is typically law abiding, and there have been only a few incidents.

    Sat. is going to be a nice fall day. See you there!

    Posted 7 months ago #         

19. Yardvark
    Member Profile

    

    Love to hear it, csw!

    Posted 7 months ago #         

20. HMC Rich
    Member Profile

    

    Bring Soap.

    Before the midterm elections, there were people who went to meetings and were very vocal. They followed the local rules and cleaned up after themselves.

    Yes the Tea Party. Many of you who support the current group of people making noise and news immediately wrote them off. Now the shoe is on the other foot. I see good and bad.

    So obviously there is dissatisfaction from both sides.

    I was at a MoveOn.org town meeting on the Peninsula. The irony is that both sides have some commonality. Oh yes and major differences too. It was interesting. I just wish more of them understood the Constitution more. Oh well. Public Education.....

    Mr. Beck (who so many of you just love ...to hate) also said almost two years ago this would happen (and another recession would spring up).

    All I am saying is that people do not like what they are seeing and are speaking out.

    Now, are the people protesting going to follow rules and be good or will it degenerate into mayhe
    m when the Anarchists and rabble rousers start getting involved?

    If I remember correctly, the anti-nuke protests (essentially against Reagan) were fairly large but benign. (Please correct me if I am wrong) But the 68 Democratic Convention in Chicagoland was much different. I see more parallels with 68. I hope I am wrong.

    I will say this about any of these "protests".
    Let them protest and assemble peacefully and with the proper permits. It seems that they just got a permit a few minutes ago. (Nice website too) If the parks are to be cleared out each night by law, then they should be. People should not be sleeping in parks if the rules state so unless they go by it legally.

    We must uphold the law otherwise society unravels.

    Posted 7 months ago #         

21. Yardvark
    Member Profile

    

    City Council Draft Resolution in support of Occupy Seattle just released by Councilmember Nick Licata:

    http://slog.thestranger.com/slog/archives/2011/10/18/licata-resolution-declares-support-for-occupy-seattle

    Posted 7 months ago #         

22. kootchman
    Member Profile

    In fact I have. The dismal is falling real estate. The "ok" is so far I preserved the value of equities ..via short term conversions . No gains, but intact and keeping even with the core inflation rate. Nope... sorry but the TEA Party movement cause is still intact.. overtaxed.

    Posted 7 months ago #         

23. kootchman
    Member Profile

    In fact I have. The dismal is falling real estate. The "ok" is so far Is modest investments.. no gains, but intact and keeping even with the core inflation rate. Nope... sorry..no CEO us taking a cent from me. .. the TEA Party movement cause is still intact.. overtaxed. A difference in the two... ? The Occupy movement has some notion the protests are sufficient for change. The only thing government understands or will respond to, is loss of income. It is the cleansing agent of influence. While McGinn gives lip service to support the movement.. he has upped every fee and permit, and added layers of revenue streams. Fines, spy camera ticketing, parking violations, useages, tolls to come... all nibbling away at disposable income...the fuel for recovery.

    Posted 7 months ago #         

24. kootchman
    Member Profile

    "We" became the greediest, epic consumerists, debt laden, deficit spending, moral relativists.. post 60's.. now we want to blame government for our indulgences and lack of citizen oversight. It's convenient to blame the bar tender for the hangover I suppose. My word of caution to the "Occupiers".. beware the sweet whisperings...

    Posted 7 months ago #         

25. Yardvark
    Member Profile

    

    Did you read the City Council draft resolution, kootchman?
    It has the "sweet whisperings" of tangible results.

    http://publicola.com/2011/10/18/licata-wants-city-to-look-into-its-own-banking-practices/

    Posted 7 months ago #         

26. Jiggers
    Member Profile

    

    Kootch...your post #24 made me want to puke. Government spent billions to bailout banks for mismanaging their own greed, but yet, we get stuck with the bill. Where is our bailout checks? The government taught us how to be greedy, and now they are telling us to live within our means on the drop of a dime? How about they show us first how to do it themselves...huh? What was the American dream about then, a bunch of hogwash? It surely seems that way now. I am all for Capitalism. Free market enterprising is great. I believe if you work hard you get rewarded. I don't understand some of these protesters. If they don't want to work hard and make money on their own and expect everybody to be on the same scale, they can move to France and live in a socialistic society. The beauty of Capitalism is you develope character. I disagree though how corporate companies manipluate. But then again, they have always been that way. It's up to you how lazy you want to be in life. Nice of you to edit your post after the fact.

    Posted 7 months ago #         

27. kootchman
    Member Profile

    "The government taught us how to be greedy".. they pandered and we followed. Willingly. Those skeezer loans? Gimme a break.. you can't tell for yourself you can't afford a 3K per month mortgage payment with a 140k salary? ? Hell with working through college...you can rack up a 40 or 100K loan indebtedness and then blame the government for your choices? We let them, as non participatory citizens run the SS trust fund into the general fund and then buy US Treasuries to finance hugh defecits for all kinds of federal goodies and largesse... you don't HAVE to take the hit off the crack pipe... too many were willing to do so. It was the total lack of character... and look... many here want more of the same... they want to double down. There are no bailout checks for "us" because we let the governments spend into fiscal oblivion. That bank "greed" was your federal government underwriting risk... wait until the 1 trillion in student loans now outstanding hit...those too are federally gaurenteed. No college fee was too high, to salaries too high.. just keep raising tuition and fees cause' the loans will cover it. Too big to fail... too big to control. And in the midst of this... the feds want more to spend... jeesh. Now we have half of the population paying no federal income taxes. Toss in a few liberals and the ones with no oar in the water are demanding even more as an absolute majority.

    Posted 7 months ago #         

28. kootchman
    Member Profile

    Like I posted.. could you imagine standing in front of the founders with a draft constitution.. 10 per cent would pick up 78% of the bill, you would work 1/3 to 1/2 of your life to support governments, the federal debt would run unchecked for over a century, deficits so large that every man, woman, child, has a debt obligation that is 4 times larger than the average family income? Ya think the 13 colonies would have ratified that?!!! Hell no. WE allowed that.. and that is our legacy to our children and grand children. Was it Franklin who said.. for better or worse, we now have a republic, it is up to us to preserve it". .. ? paraphrase. dude there isn't enough wealth and personal income to confiscate to meet current expenditures.. we are borrowing 40 cents on every spending dollar. .. let alone reduce the deficit. The numbers don't crunch.

    Posted 7 months ago #         

29. Yardvark
    Member Profile

    

    There is a ton a government waste to eliminate. Fully and totally agreed. For instance, like Ron Paul said in the debates, a lot of defense spending has nothing to do with defense. That's a point that must be conceded even by those who are in love with all these wars (how many is it now? 5? Afghanistan, Iraq, Libya, Pakistan, Uganda?) A lot of warhawks have this idea in their mind that defense spending means buying body armor and high tech weaponry. In reality, it's mostly spent on boring logistics. That's why these foreign wars are so expensive. I guarantee you that our brave men and women aren't getting much of it. (They're lucky they're finally getting the body armor that should've had decades ago.)

    The reality we have to face at this point is that, even if we vastly reduce government spending and cut it in all the most efficient places, we're still going to be leaving our kids with tons of debt. It's horrible and it's unavoidable.

    What I'm really concerned with is leaving our kids without any ability at all to fix that. I fear this is what we're doing when we allow big money into politics and reduce the influence of our individual votes. The bright side is that this is something we can fix. And we can start right here in Seattle.

    Posted 7 months ago #         

30. JoB
    Member Profile

    kootch...

    the good news...
    you don't have to get it for this worldwide movement to have impact.

    HMCRich...

    "I was at a MoveOn.org town meeting on the Peninsula. The irony is that both sides have some commonality"

    yes! there is common ground

    but you would never know that listening to Beck and the broadcasters at FOX news.

    As for wishing "more of them understood the Constitution more".

    may i suggest reading it?
    it's a pretty straightforward document.

    It's surprising what most people think they know about the constitution that just plain isn't true.

    Posted 7 months ago #         

31. Yardvark
    Member Profile

    

    I was really inspired by The Tea Party movement, as were a lot of liberals I know. Even though I disagreed with a lot of the broad opinions that were expressed, it gave me hope that a small population of passionate Americans can take on the powerful, corporate parties and emerge victorious.

    Our democracy is only as powerful as we make it. We the people are only as powerful as we actively demand to be. Regardless of your opinion, you need to speak up.

    I was proud of my fellow citizens who rose up to support their Tea Party ideas and I'm proud of those now rising up to support the Occupy movement.

    Not surprisingly, there's a lot of common ground between the two on some of the most vital issues. Maybe someone should organize a TARP summit, for instance, so that those of us on "both sides" of our political spectrum can see that we're sometimes both on the same side of sanity. (Sometimes.)

    Posted 7 months ago #         

32. Yardvark
    Member Profile

    

    Excellent video commentary:

    http://www.dailykos.com/story/2011/10/19/1028195/-Everyone-scrambling-and-scraping-for-ways-to-pretend-that-something-serious-isnt-happening-OWS?via=siderec

    Posted 7 months ago #         

33. anonyme
    Member Profile

    Yardvark, thanks for the excellent link. I'm copying it to everyone I know. Forget the pundits - Smooth has it down.

    Posted 7 months ago #         

34. kootchman
    Member Profile

    Yea, we have to cut in places where it hurts. Although, envision arthritic, John Adams, in the dead of winter, riding on horseback, on roads that at most times were no more than game trails through wilderness, from Mass to Philadelphia... for the generations yet to come. While we? We find sacrifice something for others to bear, and will look not beyond our own personal needs and comforts. Our definition of sacrifice is to find someone else to pay. What would Adams ever think of us as a people? Contempt?

    Posted 7 months ago #         

35. JanS
    Member Profile

    

    boy, with all the hot air out there these days, you'd think that our local climate would be a bit better...

    We - YOU, me, etc...have no idea what John Adams would think about present times. Your idol, Cain, said something about comparing apples to oranges the other night in the debate. That's what you're doing. If John Adams had all of the "luxuries" (yeah, right) of today, I'm betting his story would be different , too.

    Posted 7 months ago #         

36. Yardvark
    Member Profile

    

    At the moment, I'm fairly certain John Adams would be proud of us for demanding that our voices be heard and valued.

    Posted 7 months ago #         

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