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1. JoB
   Member

   What would you do to prevent someone from hitting a child?

   Tedd Tripp is delivering a seminar in Seattle this weekend at all Mars Hill churches that teaches parents to spank their children regularly…. starting in infancy…

   He believes that children are born with evil tendencies and the only way to produce a sweet obedient submissive child is to spank them regularly for lack of submission as well as offenses… starting in infancy. He states that you can not raise a child of god without regular physical discipline… He even teaches to spank in private on bare bottoms to avoid being prosecuted for child abuse.

   http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7An9OK8xo7Y

   It is not ok to advocate hitting children… even in the name of God. The severe kind of punishment he advocates is prohibited by Washington law and the American College of Pediatrics says studies show it is ineffective… as well as harmful to the physical and mental well being of children. The effects of this kind of abuse last a lifetime.

   There is something you can do…

   Join us locally at http://groups.google.com/group/stopthehitting.

   You will find a handout to help spread the word, alerts to media attention and information about protests so you can stand with us in silent protest… and a mostly like minded community of concerned neighbors. This group was formed out of the concern of local mom’s groups.

   You can do as little or as much as you like… everything helps.

   Parents need to learn that there are ways to raise a good Christian child that don’t include regularly beating them. Spanking is far more effective when it is not a regular occurrence.

   This program will be broadcast at the West Seattle Mars Hill Church. We are planning a silent protest in front of the West Seattle Mars Hill Church this friday (9/19)night at 6 PM.

   We will do nothing more than hold hands and give handouts that offer alternative child rearing resources to anyone who will take them..

   I would really appreciate it if you would take the time to join us.

   If you want to do more, you can join us at a city-wide protest at the main Mars Hill location in Ballard on Saturday around noon.

   I hope you understand that i am not anti-religion. I am not anti-church. I am not even anti Mars Hill Church.

   But i don't believe that regularly spanking children in the manner Tedd Tripp teaches... with the frequency he teaches is effective. I don't believe you capture hearts by beating children into submission.

   I suffered that kind of abuse as a child and i can attest to the fact that the harmful effects last a lifetime.

   If we can convince even one parent that there is a better way to discipline.. one that might even include judicious spanking.. it is well worth the time spent.

   anyone wanting to talk to me about this can contact me at joanne@brayden.org

   Posted 1 year ago #         

2. ellenater
   Member

   

   That is some sick sh*t! Thanks for posting, JoB. The West Seattle location is actually right up the street from me. I'll look for you guys. That's my son's birthday so I can't do the protest as we have plans but I fully support your efforts! Mars Hill creeps me out in general. Sorry if that offends anyone but it really does feel cultish.

   Good work! Keep us posted!

   Posted 1 year ago #         

3. mellaw6565
   Member

   

   JoB - has anyone contacted the news stations about Mars Hill and this guy? Bet they'll do an investigative story and really turn the heat up on this church.

   Posted 1 year ago #         

4. FullTilt
   Member

   

   The problem with Tedd Tripp and his church is that media feeds them. This new breed of the American Taliban get all riled up when they feel they are being persecuted by the media. It feeds the self righteousness that they are suffering just like Jesus did.

   I fyou do some searching on youtube, for tedd trip, there are some great speaches that he gives advocating similar treatment for wives as he does children. Bring on the Jesus Burka.

   Posted 1 year ago #         

5. mellaw6565
   Member

   

   I don't think an investigative report into their teaching of child/wife abuse will give them the type of "persecution" coverage that they want, and at the very least, will clue local people in on what appears to be a very innocuous church in the middle of a suburb.

   Posted 1 year ago #         

6. JoB
   Member

   from soclwrkrinmotn:

   "I can't log in for some reason, but I wanted to send the below to you.

   I certainly don't hold with folks like Tripp: use of force on children does not develop a conscience, but rather a fearful child who does right because he is afraid, not because it is right.

   However, I wanted to let you know that under the law, Tripp is not advocating abuse. (He's still a sick and twisted SOB that should never be allowed near children.) I wanted to just let you know because I don't want the law turned on us...

   But I think the last line is key.

   Will someone post this for me?

   RCW 9A.16.100
   Use of force on children — Policy — Actions presumed unreasonable.

   It is the policy of this state to protect children from assault and abuse and to encourage parents, teachers, and their authorized agents to use methods of correction and restraint of children that are not dangerous to the children. However, the physical discipline of a child is not unlawful when it is reasonable and moderate and is inflicted by a parent, teacher, or guardian for purposes of restraining or correcting the child. Any use of force on a child by any other person is unlawful unless it is reasonable and moderate and is authorized in advance by the child's parent or guardian for purposes of restraining or correcting the child.

   The following actions are presumed unreasonable when used to correct or restrain a child: (1) Throwing, kicking, burning, or cutting a child; (2) striking a child with a closed fist; (3) shaking a child under age three; (4) interfering with a child's breathing; (5) threatening a child with a deadly weapon; or (6) doing any other act that is likely to cause and which does cause bodily harm greater than transient pain or minor temporary marks. The age, size, and condition of the child and the location of the injury shall be considered when determining whether the bodily harm is reasonable or moderate. This list is illustrative of unreasonable actions and is not intended to be exclusive.

   Soclwrkinmotn is right.. everything but the most severe application of what Tedd Tripp advocates as the way you must raise a child is strictly speaking, legal.. unless someone is prosecuted and the judge decides the actions exceed reasonable punishment...

   "The age, size, and condition of the child and the location of the injury shall be considered when determining whether the bodily harm is reasonable or moderate."

   I should be clear that it is only the more severe manifestations of Tedd Tripp's parenting advice that would be considered illegal under washington law.

   Posted 1 year ago #         

7. ellenater
   Member

   

   I agree. Contact the news! This guy needs to go down.

   Posted 1 year ago #         

8. JoB
   Member

   We are talking with some news outlets..

   but the real story for them is that ordinary people have become concerned enough to protest this kind of parenting advice.

   especially that christian people and/or people raising children are protesting this kind of parenting advice.

   There won't be a story if people don't turn up.

   so, whether you can come or not, please spread the word... even if only by engaging in conversation here.

   there is a handout at http://groups.google.com/group/stopthehitting.

   Please print and distribute it. copy and paste it and send it in emails.

   feel free to copy and paste my post here and post it on any internet list, board, forum or chat room you participate in.

   If you are shy about presenting the message, feel free to attribute it to me (JoB) and say you found it on the West Seattle Blog forum.

   You can even use my name if you know it since i have given interviews that i expect will be printed with my name.

   There is a move to convince people that children have gone astray because of lax parenting.. that is parents who won't spank their children. This program is just a part of that movement that takes the idea one step farther.. and teaches that children need to be taught submission.

   some days when i find myself in an overenthusiastic group of young people, i admit that i fleetingly think a bit more submission wouldn't be such a bad thing..

   then my common sense takes over and i realize how important it is for children to be able to think through the choices before them and make choices based on what they think is right or wrong.. not on what they think someone else wants them to do.

   Parents do need to spend quality time with their kids... and be as concerned with their moral development as with their baseball scores.. as Tedd Tripp's advertisements promote...

   but studies have proved that regular spanking is ineffective as a means of discipline and it does not prepare children to make good decisions when they are not in your direct control.

   it takes a lot more than fear to produce healthy moral and ethical children.

   Posted 1 year ago #         

9. ellenater
   Member

   

   JoB, I'll do what I can.

   I agree that kids need more discipline. But that does NOT mean spanking. I think more structure and parents slowing the h*ll down and being more present with their kids would do the trick. I'll take a flyer to the knitting group tonight.

   Posted 1 year ago #         

10. JoB
    Member

    thank you.

    Posted 1 year ago #         

11. JoB
    Member

    I interview with Q13 this afternoon. they are doing a story about the controversy surrounding tedd Tripp's seminar this weekend.

    I don't know if i will be part of the story or not.. they had other people to interview.. and i may not see the news tonight..

    but i thought i would let you know.

    if i am, you will all recognize stabucks at Morgan junction.

    Posted 1 year ago #         

12. Oliver
    Member

    JoB,
    Thanks for keeping up the momentum. My family will be there friday night.

    Posted 1 year ago #         

13. WSratsinacage
    Member

    Just saw you on tv JoB. Bless you and thanks for doing this!!!

    Posted 1 year ago #         

14. Trick
    Member

    

    JoB,
    What WSratsinacage said :)

    Posted 1 year ago #         

15. homedk
    Member

    Nicely done,JoB!

    Posted 1 year ago #         

16. JoB
    Member

    Ah shucks!

    What i need now are a few volunteers to show up with me on friday night for about a half hour...

    i intend to be as non-confrontational as that interview was.

    Posted 1 year ago #         

17. initiatezathras
    Member

    Hey JoB,
    Where exactly will we be meeting? Also, do we need to get a permit or notify SPD that we plan on holding a peaceful protest? I'm in with you; babies shouldn't be hit.

    Posted 1 year ago #         

18. JoB
    Member

    it didn't occur to me that we might need a permit.. i will call the police station this afternoon to make sure..

    we won't be marching, so i doubt we do.

    We can meet across the street from the church.. there is a large bus stop there... at just before 6.

    Posted 1 year ago #         

19. MrJT
    Member

    

    JoB is there a link to see the story on Q13 ? Checked their website and couldn't find anything

    Posted 1 year ago #         

20. andrea
    Member

    

    MrJT I just saw the link on their home page. Just click the arrow on their fron page news stories over to the right a time or two, and you will see that story headline, something to the effect of "Ballard church stirs up controversary..." or the like.

    Joanne, great work. I am envious of your proactively ans strive for it in my own life. Thank you to all who will be protesting.

    Posted 1 year ago #         

21. JoB
    Member

    i honestly don't know.

    i can try to find out.

    Posted 1 year ago #         

22. MrJT
    Member

    

    Thank you Andrea ! Nice job JoB

    Posted 1 year ago #         

23. JoB
    Member

    Andrea... you have a good start.

    i think people don't change much. i have been doing what i can for so long that it just feels normal to me.

    some days i do a lot. some days i do nothing.

    but none of it would amount to much if i didn't find other people along the way who were willing to help me out.

    Posted 1 year ago #         

24. ellenater
    Member

    

    Great work, JoB. and I agree completely...you do what you can because it has to be done!

    Posted 1 year ago #         

25. Julie
    Member

    

    An applicable quote keeps running through my mind. I find it attributed to Voltaire, but don't find exactly where in Voltaire, and no reliable source lists it, so I'm dubious. But it's a great statement, and most apropos:

    "Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities."

    Posted 1 year ago #         

26. Zenguy
    Member

    

    Voltaire is correct and one of my favorites. Another favorite, that does not necessarily go with this thread is "I would rather be hated for who I am, than loved for who I am not."

    Posted 1 year ago #         

27. Julie
    Member

    

    Zenguy, can you point me to where in Voltaire? Inquiring minds want to know....

    Posted 1 year ago #         

28. charlabob
    Member

    

    This is really sad -- I entered the entire quotation into Google (which usually works) and it claimed attribution (of "I'd rather be hated,") to Kurt Cobain. I still haven't found the original but wanted to report on really high-class plagiarism. :-)

    Posted 1 year ago #         

29. Zenguy
    Member

    

    I studied sociology and remember it as one of my studies, but Google is amazing.

    Thy this

    http://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/quotes/v/voltaire118641.html

    Or this

    http://jpetrie.myweb.uga.edu/Voltaire.html

    Another favorite Voltaire quote is "Prejudices are what fools use for reason." in French of course. Another fav's is "It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong." Very approrpriate in 2008.

    Posted 1 year ago #         

30. StringCheese
    Member

    I will definitely try to be there tomorrow evening. I found this following quote which I found a great rebuttal for those who can't see past the "Bible is infallible and un-reinterpretable" crowd.
    .
    What would Jesus do?
    By Rev. Thomas E. Sagendorf
    .
    Some Christians use the Bible to support the practice of spanking. Especially the "spare the rod" passage from Proverbs. However, this is an illegitimate use of scripture. Unless these folks are willing to use the same kind of selective prooftexting to support THE BUYING AND SELLING OF HUMAN BEINGS (Genesis 17:13), SLAVERY (Ephesians 6:5), THE BEATING OF FOOLS (Proverbs 10:13, 26:3), THE SUPPRESSION OF WOMEN (I Corinthians 14:34, Ephesians 5:22), SANCTIONS AGAINST MARRIAGE (I Corinthians 7:25-38), INCEST (Genesis 19:30-36), and INFANTICIDE (Psalm 137:9), they'll have a hard time explaining why they single out a passage from Proverbs in support of corporal punishment. It's hard to conceive of Jesus ever hitting a child. For any reason! The very suggestion is contradictory both to what he taught and the way he lived. When anxious adults wanted to shoo the children away, Jesus rebuked the adults and welcomed the children. "Of such," he said, "is the kingdom of heaven." A popular slogan these days is, "What would Jesus do?" This becomes the most reliable biblical authority for Christians when it comes to hitting children. Jesus just wouldn't do it. Why, then, should we?

    Posted 1 year ago #         

31. Zenguy
    Member

    

    That is exactly our take StringCheese. Our signs will say the same types of things "Would Jesus hit a child?"

    I hope you can join us, we just want to make our city a great place to raise confident, well adjusted children.

    Posted 1 year ago #         

32. TammiWS
    Member

    

    Seattle Times today...
    http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/localnews/2008189313_marshill19m0.html

    Posted 1 year ago #         

33. JoB
    Member

    Never underestimate the power of the West Seattle Blog.. This little forum has generated quite a stir...

    that by the way... is being felt very keenly in Ballard. I think they will have the larger protest tonight.

    http://www.q13fox.com/pages/video/?autoStart=true&topVideoCatNo=default&clipId=2926940

    http://slog.thestranger.com/2008/09/suffer_the_children#c1145524 Dan Savage!!!!! Warning...Please don't open the extra links below the picture. they are pornagraphic

    http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/localnews/2008189313_marshill19m0.html

    and you might want to listen to 88.5 KPLU... your local NPR station. There is supposed to be an interview by Jennifer Wing this morning .. that does not feature me:)

    I had no idea that what started as a conversation here would end up with so much press.

    This just proves that community activism works.. one individual speaking up can make a difference...

    Posted 1 year ago #         

34. ellenater
    Member

    

    This is good stuff. i'm glad there's a Ballard protest happening, too. I HAD to open the links though...because you said I shouldn't. Next time I'll listen!

    Posted 1 year ago #         

35. JoB
    Member

    Locations of Mars Hill Churches

    Tedd Tripp’s program on parenting is live at the Ballard Church.

    ORGANIZED PROTEST,
    Tonight.. Friday.. (9/19) at 6 PM at the Ballard Church
    as participants are gathering for the program
    protesters are meeting at the nearby Fred Meyers at a quarter to 6 and walking to the church.

    ORGANIZED PROTEST
    Tomorrow .. saturday (9/20) At 12:30 PM at the Ballard Church
    At the end of the program.. as participants leave.
    Protesters will meet at the nearby Fred Meyers at 12:15 and walk to the church

    The Ballard Campus
    1401 NW Leary Way, Seattle, WA 98107.

    The program will be simulcast at all Mars Hill church locations

    ORGANIZED PROTEST …
    Tonight.. Friday.. (6/19) At 6 PM at the West Seattle Location
    As participants gather for the program
    We will meet across the street near the bus shelter at about 5:45

    The West Seattle Campus
    7551 35th Ave SW, Seattle, WA 98126

    If none of the currently organized protests is near enough for you to attend and you want to make alternative information on Christian parenting available to those who attend at other locations, please join us by finding the church nearest you and standing in silent protest at 6 PM Friday and 12:30 Saturday.

    The Bellevue Church
    14615 SE 22nd St, Bellevue, WA 98007
    at the corner of 148th Ave SE and SE 22nd

    The Downtown Church
    2333 Western Ave Seattle WA 98121

    The Lake City Church
    3524 NE 95th St, Seattle, WA 98115

    Shoreline Church
    Meets at Schirmer Auditorium at Kings High School
    near N 195th St and Greenwood Ave N

    Olympia Church
    Meets at South Puget Sound Community College
    2011 Mottman Rd SW, Olympia, WA 98512
    Lecture Hall 26

    The Mars Hill Church website has driving directions to all of their locations
    http://www.marshillchurch.org/

    I ask that if you choose to protest at Mars Hill locations other than those we have organized, that you treat program participants respectfully and provide them with other resources for responsible parenting…Handouts and Sign suggestions can be found at http://groups.google.com/group/stopthehitting.

    Posted 1 year ago #         

36. JoB
    Member

    thanks ellenator.. i edited to explain why you shouldn't open those links...

    Posted 1 year ago #         

37. JoB
    Member

    People are asking privately why I got involved in this.

    It's too easy to say that i know first hand the damage that systematic spanking.. which often gets out of hand.. can do to children.

    It is more than that. I really think that Christianity is at it's strongest when Christians are offered a wide range of information and allowed to make their own minds up about what they believe and why they believe it...

    It saddens me that anyone would use the Bible to promote child rearing practices that have been proven to be detrimental to the well being of children... and profess that this is the only way to raise Christian children.

    I don't know what Mars Hill Church teaches it's parishioners about child rearing, but i do know what Tedd Tripp writes in his books and i know that those books are available in the Mars Hill libraries.

    For those that point out that Tedd Tripp has more to say than spank your child, i would point out that he has scheduled an entire hour at the end of his program... where a speaker drives home the messages of his program.. to spanking.

    What can you possibly have to say about spanking a child that would take an hour to say?

    I just think the parents that attend those seminars need to learn what other Christians have to say about raising children.

    And i think it's time we had a public discussion about children and discipline...

    To spank or not to spank isn't the only issue.

    I know that it's easy to say that it is their own business how they raise their children... and to a large extent, i agree. But when how they raise their children produces adults who impact our society negatively... then i think it is imperative that they are at least exposed to better options.

    I think a good child is one who knows how to make good decisions. Tedd Tripp thinks a good child is a submissive child.

    In the long run.. i would rather have a somewhat unruly and questioning child that makes good decisions for himself and others than a submissive child whose only choices are to submit or rebel.

    This is just what i think and what motivates me.

    Posted 1 year ago #         

38. Dave
    Member

    It's great to see so many voices concerned over the pain of that can arise through spanking.

    As a fetus can feel pain in the womb, the abortion process is an the apex of pain inflicted on young ones(some disagree with the statement, but the arguments are philosophical without proof - we do know that fetuses react strongly to physical stimuli).

    I think I've come to the right place to advertise participation in an upcoming protest of a local abortion clinic (totally peaceful, we're not the crazy zealot type). Let's stand together against needless pain inflicted on children!

    More info to come - looking forward to your responses!

    Posted 1 year ago #         

39. JenV
    Member

    

    great Dave- I will be there protesting the protesters at the abortion clinic! keep your religion out of my womb, thanks very much.

    Posted 1 year ago #         

40. FullTilt
    Member

    

    "we're not the crazy zealot type" Sounds like you are.

    Posted 1 year ago #         

41. Dave
    Member

    Who said anything about religion? We are talking about protesting that children don't deserve pain through spanking, I would think that protesting that children don't deserve pain through abortion is pretty parallel.

    How do I sound like a crazy zealot? I was trying to distance myself from the likes of idiots that resort to threats and violence...

    Posted 1 year ago #         

42. beachdrivegirl
    Member

    

    First of all welcome Dave. It is always ncie to hear fresh new voices on the forum, even if they differ from some of the members positions. It is always educational to hear both sides of the argument.

    I had not actually heard the argument that a fetus could feel pain in the womb. I will have to look into that.

    Feel free to educate me on my womb. thanks and again welcome dave.

    Posted 1 year ago #         

43. JoB
    Member

    Dave,

    i will ask you the same questions that i ask every person i encounter who talks to me about opposing the right of choice for women.

    what are you personally doing to help prevent unwanted pregnancies and what are you personally doing to help improve the living conditions for children who are not lucky enough to be born to financially stable committed parents?

    I have earned the right to ask by living what i believe...

    i try to help young women.. even those who don't belong to my family... to learn how to make positive choices for themselves that include not having children they can't support financially or emotionally.

    I try to do whatever i can to encourage and support young mothers who have children in less than ideal circumstances to make better choices for themselves and to teach their children to make better choices.

    I give money to local agencies that help women and children to the slim chance at bettering themselves.

    I quietly help financially support individuals through crisis when i can.

    I speak up for providing adequate nutrition, education and resources for all children.. not just those who are privileged.

    And.. i made the hard personal choice to have a child and give it up.. and have lived the consequences of that choice.. paying a price that far exceeds nine months of gestation.

    Unless your commitment to living children is a strong as your commitment to the unborn...

    it is a bit hypocritical to protest abortion on the basis of the possible pain a fetus incurs.

    If your real opposition is religious..

    i would remind you that you enjoy the right to choose your own religion and to practice your beliefs ... a right guaranteed by the constitution.

    but the same constitution guarantees the right of all citizens to pursue their own individual religious beliefs and/or moral beliefs which may or may not agree with yours.

    As long as no law is broken, each of us has the right to make our own decisions.. and that includes the right of women to make their own individual decisions about the possible child they will be held personally responsible for without the interference of the state... and that right is protected by law.

    I ask why your right to promote your personal beliefs is more important than that woman's right to make decisions about what is best for her and her family.

    If you are not willing to take personal responsibility for all children who are born... wanted or unwanted ... if you do not advocate and vote to pay for collective responsibility for those children whose mothers may not be able to adequately provide for them...

    then what gives you the right to demand that someone else carry that burden for you?

    The right to life does not begin in the womb and end at birth.. neither should concern for the children who result from that philosophy.

    Posted 1 year ago #         

44. JenV
    Member

    

    you can protest as much as you want Dave - but I guarantee my voice will be louder than yours. Here's a thought- if you don't like abortion, don't have one! It's my body, my choice. It always cracks me up anyway when men get involved in the abortion debate. It would be akin to me telling you what you can do with your testicles.

    Posted 1 year ago #         

45. JoB
    Member

    dave..

    sorry.. this triggered a real hot spot for me.

    i hope if you choose to protest, you do no more than what i will outside the Mars Hill Church.. respectfully hand out information... and respect their right to make their own choice.

    I would still hope that if you choose to try to influence someone else's choices, that you would also be equally willing to help them do what it takes to carry that choice through the rest of their lifetime.

    And yes, i have made that pledge and am already carrying that out in regards to the Tedd Tripp protest.

    Posted 1 year ago #         

46. charlabob
    Member

    

    BDG, here's an article, backed by science, about when the fetus can feel pain. I apologize on behalf of Dave for the threadjack :-)

    http://www.religioustolerance.org/abo_pain.htm

    Posted 1 year ago #         

47. JoB
    Member

    link to the gogglepage for info

    http://groups.google.com/group/stopthehitting

    i tried the link i posted above and didn't get through.. so i am reposting it. who knows what i did wrong the first time:)

    Posted 1 year ago #         

48. Dave
    Member

    I respect you for the compassion you have for others and all that you do for them. I must admit my resume is not as lengthy.

    Additionally, the burden of "taking responsibility for all children who are born" is a bit weightier than I think I am capable of alone.

    Which begs a philosophical question: Does one have to have a resume (commitment to quote yourself) in order to not have a hypocritical opinion? Also, does one need to take what sounds like global responsibility on their shoulders to take part in expressing their opinion?

    Do I need to have a litany of anti-war protests or green initiatives or habitat for humanity service under my belt before an opinion is deemed un-hypocritical when speaking on one of these matters? Does voting, or giving money count, or just action? Must I be willing to take total responsibility for those in war torn countries and for trees and forests everywhere?

    If that's the prerequisite, I for sure am done for as an activist. Anyway, just a thought...

    Posted 1 year ago #         

49. Anonymous
    Unregistered

    "what are you personally doing to help prevent unwanted pregnancies and what are you personally doing to help improve the living conditions for children who are not lucky enough to be born to financially stable committed parents?" - JoB

    The above are great questions presented by JoB. I, too have a question:

    Why would you have unprotected sex with someone you don't even like enough to have children with? Oh, that's right, because you can terminate the life of those children through abortion.

    It has been documented, proven, argued that a fetus DOES feel pain. I know that it is much easier to believe that a fetus is nothing more than a tiny cell with no capacity for feeling, but anyone that wants to take that stance should research it.

    I also believe that it is disrespectful to lecture to Dave on how to go about his protest. Why would you assume that his protest would not be as peaceful as your own this evening?

    If you want to stand up for children, then go to the source. The parents. Parents should not spank their infants, but if they are incapable of raising a child appropriately, they shouldn't be practicing unprotected sex in the first place. Abortion is too often used as a way to take away responsibility.

    Welcome Dave.

    Posted 1 year ago #         

50. Anonymous
    Unregistered

    "one individual speaking up can make a difference..."

    Let's not forget to thank Nico for bringing this to everyone's attention. I saw the post here, in the Ballard blog, and in the Seattle Times forum, where she was often debating others by herself. In addition, she has been maintaining 2 blogs for updates and information.

    Thank-you Nico, for being willing to expose your own pain in order to prevent others from having the same experience.

    Posted 1 year ago #         

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