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"Please control your dog!" (my rant)

Started 2 years ago by Bubba
Latest reply from ellierose

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Bubba
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"Please control your dog!"
This is what I heard the other day while out on my deck entertaining visiting parents. My dog was in his yard separated from the sidewalk by a rockery and was busy observing whoever was walking buy. He was not barking he was not lunging and he was not displaying any aggressive behavior; he was excited to see another dog. He is trained to stay in his yard. The command was coming from a woman who was struggling with a bull terrier on a leash, I couldn't see whether it's behavior was aggressive or simply wanted to meet and greet, I could tell however that it was basically overpowering the owner.

I told her my dog was in his yard and would stay there and went back to my brunch. After it was clear that the bull terrier stood a good chance of completely over powering the woman I called my dog to my side and he complied.

Some of you people need to chill out about me and my dog. We've worked hard to be the trained team we are and near as I can tell I have more control of him off leash then many of you leash nazis do when tethered. I do break the leash law in certain circumstances. In those circumstances I've trained him to perform as commanded and I'm always vigilant for the potential slip on his part. I know this is illegal and whether or not I'm complying with the law is a calculated choice I've made and I accept the consequences of this choice. I do know that no other people or pets are in danger when I do this because I have worked with this dog (and others) for many years and have never allowed aggressive behavior and he is therefore quite trained in this regard. I do not consider this to be the riskiest illegal behavior I engage in by any measure.

He's a dog, I treat him as such. He is neither a child nor livestock and I don't treat him as either of those. If you want to treat your dog like he's your child or meat for the market that's your choice but don't waste your breath or shrill your voice on me; for you see, I've got my dog under control. Just because you have yours on the end of a rope doesn't mean you do. To me those who don't train their dogs are the least responsible pet owners.

Posted 2 years ago #
flowerpetal
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Clearly this woman was frustrated with her own dog's inability to behave. Unfortunately she could not take responsibility for herself or her dog; and therefor had to make something else be the "bad".
Bubba, you may have opened yourself for an onslaught of retorts I fear.

Posted 2 years ago #
EmmyJane
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Let the games begin...

Posted 2 years ago #
JenV
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shoot. I just called the Angry Mob store - they're fresh out of both torches AND pitchforks! Might have to let this one go, folks. ;)

Posted 2 years ago #
kg
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Posted 2 years ago #
Leroniusmonkfish
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I'm building a catapult to launch flaming coconuts!

Posted 2 years ago #
r26
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I like your style - wanna babysit my kids?! :)

Posted 2 years ago #
Leroniusmonkfish
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Couldn't find any coconuts at the Met...gonna have to settle with canned artichoke hearts.

Posted 2 years ago #
hopey
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Wow. If you have learned the secret to 100% reliable voice control of your dog, could I please come take lessons from you? Because in my dog training experience, there is no such thing as 100% reliable voice control.

I'd also like to learn how you are able to prevent other unleashed dogs from coming into your unfenced yard. I could sure use that ability when my girls are in heat and every male dog around wants to get at 'em.

I'd love to hear from you! Thanks!

Posted 2 years ago #
JoB
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hopey...

there's the rub.. even if you have trained your dog you are relying on too many who haven't trained theirs.

i rely on a fence. and i walk it daily to make sure they haven't found a way under, over or through.

still.. I am surprised with their ingenuity ;-0

Posted 2 years ago #
Bubba
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Hopey,

I'm surprised that you want to hear from me since you didn't manage to read what I wrote the first time. I specifically explained that I prepare for slips on the dog's part, nothing is 100%.

Since I don't have breeding livestock I'm not concerned with the same issues you are. I'm not quite sure why you want to color my issues with your own problems...that's kind of the point of my post. Go ahead an argue for your limitations, just don't argue for mine.

Posted 2 years ago #
ws4ever
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Darn, I just had that oil to the boiling point to pour down the ramparts. You people are entirely too civil.

Posted 2 years ago #
JoB
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Bubba..

what do you do to prepare for slip ups when you are on the deck and your dog is at the property line?

How would you have handled the situation if the woman had dropped her leash and her dog had invaded your yard and your dog decided it was a higher priority to defend his yard and you than to obey your command?

Or.. worse yet, the other dog had attacked and your dog was too busy fighting for it's life to respond to your command?

And.. is your dog ever in the yard when you aren't physically watching? What happens if a situation develops that you know nothing about?

I do think the woman walking by was very out of line yelling at you because she couldn't control her leashed dog... and i too wish that more people would train their dogs.. even if they walk them on a leash.

But i also know that training isn't everything.

I train my dogs constantly... and still i have to be incredibly vigilant because on occasion their prey drive is stronger than their training...

i worry about those who rely on voice control or even invisible fences. invisible fences are invisible to intruders and many animals tolerate the jolt to reach their prey...

that is.. if it is activated. Many people stop activating their fence once their own dog is trained.. forgetting entirely about those wandering the neighborhood.

So i share the concerns hopey voiced...

And hope you never find out the hard way that voice control and training sometimes aren't enough...

Posted 2 years ago #
Bubba
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my my it is such a big scary world out there.

[/yawn]

Posted 2 years ago #
KBear
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I've always wondered whether some people walk their dogs off leash just to piss people off. Now I know.

Posted 2 years ago #
Bubba
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it's never been a mystery to me that some people spend their whole day looking for excuses to be pissed off.

Posted 2 years ago #
MargL
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lol - Maybe Bubba doesn't even have a dog and he's just posting this to push peoples buttons. It sure does work! I find myself wanting to make arguments like:
Bubba says: "He's a dog, I treat him as such. He is neither a child nor livestock and I don't treat him as either of those."
I reply: "Oh, but you do treat your dog like a child! A child that can listen to reason and understand why they should not bark or run after that other dog over there, because they could get hurt or hurt others! Do dogs listen to reason? When instinct takes over can they stop and say, wait - I should not do this? Like you and hopey both said, nothing is 100% in training a dog."

then I find myself wanting to go on...
Bubba says: "Since I don't have breeding livestock I'm not concerned with the same issues you are."
I ask: "What does that mean? You bring up the livestock issue a couple times. Are you saying you are -not- training your dog not to hunt and bite things that run? Because that's probably something someone who -does- have livestock would do. If this is the case, I hope my 3-year-old daughter and I never ever go past your house while your never-can-be-100%-trained dog is out running around his yard."

and lastly...
Bubba says: "Go ahead an argue for your limitations, just don't argue for mine."
I reply: "But we're not arguing for your limitations. We're arguing for your dog's! Yes, you are a good owner. You've trained your dog, you care for your dog, you want him to be 'happy' by not leashing him. But - unlike the saying 'Guns don't kill people, people kill people', dogs -do- kill people. They are dogs and they act on their own. No matter how much you care about your dog I do not think you are doing him a favor by forcing him to decide between hunt/kill instinct or the training you have given him when the end result could be something like having to put him down for attacking a small child on the sidewalk or in the park, let alone another dog. What consequences are you really ready to accept?
I think the reason for Government and associated laws in the first place are to save us from our own stupidity."

I think I'm done now... now other folks with pushed buttons can continue this discussion :-)

Posted 2 years ago #
hopey
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Mmmmm. The yummy troll flesh has been exposed.

(No, not you, MargL.)

Posted 2 years ago #
Bubba
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Marg, you really think that all dogs are barely able to restrain themselves from chasing down and disemboweling you and your 3 yr old?

the world is scarier than I thought I amazed you people leave your homes.

Posted 2 years ago #
EmmyJane
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Bubba's just trying to piss people off. Hopey said it best.

Posted 2 years ago #
MargL
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Bubba - no I do not think that. Anymore than I think that every time I get in my car I am going to get into an accident, or every time I get on a plane it's going to fall out of the sky, or every time someone picks up a gun they are going to kill someone. But it does happen. You cannot say your dog will never attack anyone. Chances are he probably never will - but you're not just taking chances with your dog's life by leaving him unleashed - you're playing the odds that something won't happen. Just because I haven't been hit by a drunk driver yet doesn't mean I never will.

Posted 2 years ago #
Ken
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Hmm My neighbors fully voice controlled, unfenced bull mastiff was a paragon of virtue and obedience.. until that one day I had to rescue a 7 year old from the top of my car. Good thing he made it to the top of the car.

My now dead Rottweiler was a loving companion and fierce protector to her family/pack but I never gave her the chance to get scared, upset or off the leash outside her fence or the dog park.

Give us your address so we can send animal control over to view this perfectly voice controlled marvel.

Posted 2 years ago #
JoB
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There is one way our dogs are like our children.

No matter how well we train them, they continue to have minds of their own...

and the stricter we train them to obedience, the more likely they are to get into trouble when they slip their leash.

Treating a dog like a dog includes understanding their limitations..

and creating a safe environment for them to be dogs.

Posted 2 years ago #
bluebird
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Bubba-love your sarcasm and tend to agree that the hyperbole from leashed dogs is often over the top. A leash in and of itself does not mean your dog is under control. I have a little 12 pounder that I wrestle with constantly, to attest to that.

On the other hand, horrible consequences can occur if you have at all misjudged the situation. Today's KOMO headlines feature this exact scenario and the leashed dog died.

http://www.komonews.com/news/local/52477442.html

One compromise suggestion, at least have a short leash on your dog (while attended, of course) so there is something to grab a hold of in an altercation. The woman in this story was pretty bitten up as well from trying to save her beloved pet.

I realize to you, one story is possibly just anecdotal, but if I were the story I would be inconsolable at the loss.

Posted 2 years ago #
Bofus
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It may be difficult to believe but dogs can be trained to be completely under voice control. I have witnessed English Springer Spaniel field trial dogs that are steady in very stressful situations (flushed birds, other dogs working, firearms being discharged, etc)where your average dog would certainly not be under control. This control is paramount in field trial success and is absolutely amazing to watch. The dog, when commanded to stop, will not move until released. Other dogs, flushed birds, whatever, may be right next to the dog but the dog won't flex a muscle! So, my point is that it is possible to have a steady dog that is under complete control. This control comes from consistent, daily training that is enforced at all times without exception...

Posted 2 years ago #
Bubba
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Interesting example Bofus, what we need to add to that is the fact that these dogs are trained for this activity and this is when the owners know the routine. Certainly when these dogs are taken to a different situation where appropriate they are leashed or crated. Reasonable people act reasonably. Unreasonable people make up wild scenarios and suggest that when you say you work your dog off leash at calculated times you really mean your dog is running loose 24/7 looking for an opportunity to disembowel 3 year olds.

Posted 2 years ago #
JoB
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Bubba...

wow, were you working your dog off leash in controlled circumstances while entertaining your parents on your deck?

Posted 2 years ago #
Bofus
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Biddable dogs can be trained to be under voice and/or whistle control in the most chaotic environments. No controlled circumstances necessary.

Posted 2 years ago #
vincent
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None of your leash opinions matter, there is no leash law on your private property. Go west seattle nannys anyway!

Posted 2 years ago #
Bubba
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Job, please reference where I mentioned "controlled circumstances" in this discussion. I don't even know what that means. Do you really think you make a good point when you just make crap up?

Nannies indeed Vincent...what took ya so long? We need another Aussie in the discussion.

Posted 2 years ago #
hopey
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Why do you all keep feeding the troll?

Posted 2 years ago #
Bubba
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So I'm a troll and Moxiegirl's a persecuted saint near as I can tell it isn't the presentation it's whether or not the board nanny brigade agrees with the stance.

I can't wait until you guys decide the turn signal law is a public safety issue and it too needs a neighborhood task force.

Posted 2 years ago #
sam-c
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what is a biddable dog? a contractor's dog?

Posted 2 years ago #
Bubba
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http://www.geocities.com/farmcollie1/biddability.html

Posted 2 years ago #
kg
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This thread bores me and is now about cake.

Posted 2 years ago #
hopey
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Birthday cake ice cream at Full Tilt!

Posted 2 years ago #
sam-c
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"A dog that will do anything for you even if it means going against their own desire or comfort zone is a real asset."

that sounds nice but doubt you'd ever find a 'biddable' pit bull. it wasn't a 'biddable' dog that came flying out of its front door at me and my little 15 lb. (leashed) dog. but, lucky for me it was a friendly pit bull. wasn't sure at first though, judging from the frantic screams of the owner coming from the door.

full tilt ....when? which one? want to see the new one?

Posted 2 years ago #
kg
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hopey....don't you get in between me and some full tilt ice cream cake.

Posted 2 years ago #
Leroniusmonkfish
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I like turtles.

Posted 2 years ago #
JoB
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bubba..

substitute calculated for controlled in my post...

same comment.

Full Tilt lovers...

i am ready for a Full Tilt run.. either white center or columbia city will do just fine for a wsb meet-up :)))

Posted 2 years ago #
JanS
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ummm...no comment about the dog owner...but Full Tilt? he**, yeah !

Posted 2 years ago #
WesCAddle
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The Cake is a Lie

Posted 2 years ago #
Julie
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@WesCAddle: Oh, no! Not you, too! :)

Posted 2 years ago #
kg
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Cake > pie discuss.

Posted 2 years ago #
Traci
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In my hypothetical someday home with a yard and less city and people that freak out about animals, my dogs will RUN WILD around my yard. So I guess I side with the "troll" on this one.

tart>pie>cake

Unless

tart>dense moussie cake>some pie

Warm apple/peach pie with ice cream>everything else in the whole world.

Posted 2 years ago #
Leroniusmonkfish
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Me and my cats will provide the toppings! :)

Posted 2 years ago #
miws
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Mmmmmmmm.........Kitty Roca! ;-P

Mike

Posted 2 years ago #
thee
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Ya know the one thing that's even better than pig ears? Eating pig ears off leash!

Posted 2 years ago #
johnnyblegs
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Looks like the Bubba Gump Shrimp Boat got bored with his own post and left for open waters.

I haven't tried Tilt. Is it good?

Posted 2 years ago #
Jiggers
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I see it all the time at Lincoln Park. People let their dogs roam free. Once I was casually sitting on a bench on the main head trail, the damm dog came right up to me and started barking loudly for no friggin reason. I was startled because I wasn't expecting that. It also wasn't leashed and I told the girl its supposed to be leashed here. She just shrugged her shoulders. I would love to ticket owners with dogs who aren't leashed. Someone needs to be out there policing the dogs and owners. 4 out of 5 owners don't have their dogs leashed in Lincoln Park. That's a gold mine writing up tickets wise. I wonder how much the fine is with no leash on because it is a law isn't it.

Posted 2 years ago #