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Pedestrians take responsibility for your own safety

Started 1 year ago by Dennito
Latest reply from I Wonder

Dennito
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Many West Seattle pedestrians seem to think there are invisible force fields on crosswalks that makes them invulnerable to the force of a 4000 pound automobile. I've lost track of the number of times I've seen a pedestrian dart in front of a car assuming a) that the driver sees them b) that the driver is actually going to yield. Sorry, but 95% of pedestrian accidents would be avoided if pedestrians would simply do what we were taught as children: Look both ways before crossing the street. I'll add: don't cross until you see that the driver is actually going to stop. Being in the right doesn't help when you are hospitalized.

Posted 1 year ago #
JanS
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But in the same vein, drivers, take responsibility for yourself and your actions. Pedestrians have the right of way. I'm not saying that those of us who walk should pay less attention, I'm saying that it's a 50/50 proposition here. :)

Posted 1 year ago #
dawsonct
Member Profile

Agree with both posters. As a pedestrian, it won't matter HOW correct you are when they are planting you in the ground.
I look both ways on ONE-WAY streets; too many bad drivers in this World.

Posted 1 year ago #
Jasperblu
Member Profile

Pedestrians may have the "right of way", but that doesn't mean they should assume that means they have a RIGHT to walk out into the street w/o looking, or that cars can and will stop for them, especially if they're not in a cross walk.

I never understood this Seattle mentality of assuming a car will stop for me as a ped, just because the law says I have the right of way. What? A car is gonna flatten me like a pancake, in a NY second. No way I'm assuming a damn thing when I step into the street. If I can't make eye contact w/ a driver, I will wait. I'm not in a big hurry to cross and die. Just saying.

Posted 1 year ago #
lucky chick
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Denito and Jasper -
You don't know what the pedestrian is assuming. It's kind of hard to make eye contact through tinted mirrors or at night. Maybe they think you see them and assume you are going to obey the law.
>
That said, it's easy for a driver to miss seeing a ped. I've done it a few times and am very lucky to have not hit them. Drivers need to be more vigilant and stop playing with the radio/yapping/thinking about dinner/rushing, and peds need to be extra cautious because most drivers ARE playing with the radio/yapping/thinking about dinner/rushing, or simply failing to drive carefully enough. If I'd hit that ped I just missed on 42nd and Calif last week (and she WAS looking at me but already in the crosswalk), we'd both be very sorry right now.

Posted 1 year ago #
datamuse
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I missed seeing a car, a few years back. It was nighttime, and the car was black and didn't have its headlights on.

Posted 1 year ago #
Al
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The problem with the original post is that it's misleading: "Pedestrians take responsibility for your own safety." Ok, sure, but the "problem" discussed is those pesky "darting" pedestrians who seem to be aimed directly at the oncoming cars! My heavens!

Perchance may the problem be that said drivers are not practicing appropriate driving awareness and are not even looking for pedestrians trying to cross the street? I'll tell you, sometimes I (as a mere pedestrian) have to step out onto the street and WAVE at drivers to get them to stop so I can legally cross the street (every corner is a legal crosswalk whether it's marked or not and a DRIVER is obligated to stop for all pedestrians who seem to want to cross the roadway, not the other way around). Sometimes those drivers seem genuinely surprised to see me; '...gosh, what's that person doing waving at me and trying to what, step into the steet! Is that a crazy pedestrian or what?! They should know better to wait until all of us drivers have passed them so then they can cross the street without slowing us down.' Is it assumed that I am "darting" by maybe running as fast as I can across a street because no driver will stop for me? Sure. I take responsibility for that but drivers need to take more - drivers are operating the vehicle that could kill me as I try to, safely as possible, cross the street. Yes, I am a driver as well and I just don't seem to have a problem with "darting" pedestrians in my experience.

The onus is on the DRIVER by both State and City law. It's called the Pedestrian RIGHT OF WAY and no matter what street you are driving on - it applies. And even if they do dart in front of you it is still the drivers obligation to try and avoid a collision.

A refresher of the SMC, Seattle Traffic Codes, is below.

SMC 11.14.135 Crosswalk.
"Crosswalk" means the portion of the roadway between the intersection area and the prolongation or connection of the farthest sidewalk line, or, in the event there are no constructed sidewalks, then between the intersection area and a line ten feet (10') therefrom, except as modified by a marked
crosswalk. (RCW 46.04.160)

SMC 11.40.040 Right-of-way in crosswalk.
The operator of an approaching vehicle shall stop and remain stopped to allow a pedestrian using an unmarked or marked crosswalk or a disabled person using a curb ramp as provided in Section 11.40.090 to cross the roadway when the pedestrian or disabled person is upon or within (1) lane of the half of the roadway upon which the vehicle is traveling or onto which it is turning. For purposes of this section, "half of the roadway" means all traffic lanes carrying traffic in one (1) direction of travel and includes the entire width of a one-way roadway. This section shall not apply to pedestrians crossing a roadway at a point where an accessible pedestrian tunnel or overhead pedestrian crossing has been provided. (RCW 46.61.235(1))

Section 11.58.310 REGARD FOR PEDESTRIANS. Every operator of a vehicle shall exercise due care to avoid colliding with any pedestrian or person riding a bicycle upon any roadway and shall give warning by sounding the horn when necessary.

Posted 1 year ago #
yeah-me
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I was in Mexico recently and watched while a small group of Caucasian pedestrians stepped out on a four lane road -- in a crosswalk -- totally assuming they had the right of way. It was very scary for all watching as a fast-moving white truck came to a screeching halt just before hitting them. He obviously did not expect them to step into the road. The pedestrians look slightly irritated and continued on across the other lanes. I don't think they learned a thing!

Hey, if it is the law in Seattle...must be the law everywhere, hmm?

Posted 1 year ago #
TDe
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Funny how pedestrians rail against drivers and drivers rail against pedestrians. JanS is correct in my book. You can quote the law to me all you want from your hospital bed. The fact is, if you step in front of a moving object that's larger than you are, the operator of that object has a limited amount of time, physical force and space to 1) register someone stepped in front of them and then 2) make the moving object stop before running over you. Elementary physics. We all have to take some responsibility for our actions... drivers and pedestrians alike. And, knowing that, if I happen to be walking on a dark rainy night dressed in dark clothing, I'm going to be very cautious crossing any street, even if the law IS on my side.

Posted 1 year ago #
KBear
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It IS against the law for pedestrians to dart in front of cars that could not reasonably come to a safe stop, even in a crosswalk. If the pedestrian is obeying this part of the law, they should enough time to recognize whether the driver is going to stop or not, so they can decide whether they want to be right or dead.

That said, drivers seem to ignore their legal responsibilities far more than pedestrians do.

Posted 1 year ago #
lucky chick
Member Profile

Funny that you point out that AS A PEDESTRIAN you'd pay more attention. Well, TDe, if I happen to be driving on a dark, rainy night, I'm going to be very cautious at intersections because my vehicle can kill someone,and that someone has the right of way (not to mention is in the more vulnerable position). It is my legal responsibility to see them and stop. I never "step in front of" cars, but they sure don't acknowledge me standing at the edge of the road waiting to cross, as they are legally obligated to do. Thus, I'm still alive and drivers are still ignoring the law. Hardly the point.
.
Jeez, the people who take the drivers' side sure don't want to take responsibility for anything, it seems. They accuse peds of sprinting out in front of cars. I'm 43 and haven't seen that happen ever.

Posted 1 year ago #
squareeyes
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I saw at least three sprinters (separately) trying to get across California between Alaska and Charlestown in moderate traffic just this weekend. All were mid-block between cars. I'm not complaining about them - I am occasionally a mid-block darter myself, but I absolutely pay attention to ensure no cars are coming in either direction when I make that decision to dash.

Posted 1 year ago #
MB
Member Profile

Seriously, the arguing? The OP makes a totally valid point. We all whine about cars all the time...I get it, tons of you hate cars and also hate drivers. Hell, I even hate other drivers most of the time. But I also know that just as there are tons of inattentive idiot drivers, there are just as many inattentive idiot bikers AND pedestrians! Why can people not see that the point was not "pay attention peds, so I don't have to." The above story about Mexico is a perfect example, so are all these stories of "accidents" while walking and texting. I sure as he'll don't get in my car thinking, "hmmm, I think ill go kill someone today." No one group should pay more attention than the next, WE ALL (drivers, bikers, walkers) need to stop arguing, get our heads out of our arses and protect ourselves and the others around us as best we can when we're around a street by not being oblivious to our surroundings!!!!! I consider myself an "aggressive pedestrian" because cars just won't stop if you stand there timidly and wait. But I sure as s#%t am not going to hop out and test someone either. How about this, EVERYONE needs to do better. Why is it not ok to also remind pedestrians of that?

Posted 1 year ago #
Genesee Hill
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I was wondering when someone would bring bicyclists into this thread.

Posted 1 year ago #
MB
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There are good and dumb in all three categories and mistakes by any of them can kill people.

Posted 1 year ago #
Kevin
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From a drivers AND pedestrians point of view - and I have and will continue to play the part of both, it is often hard for a driver to see you, especially at night.
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I would suggest to anyone out after dark to seriously consider some sort of reflective clothing or other accessory to aid in being seen.
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Case in point - there is a woman in my Arbor Heights neighborhood who is a bus rider, and on more than one occasion I have seen her crossing the street or walking down the street ONLY because she takes the time to carry a reflective belt that she slings over her shoulder. The head lights of my car pick her up long before I realize I'm approaching a pedestrian. Thank you - Ms Who_ever_you_are!
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Additional examples are the bicyclists with the pulsating headlights and flashing red strobe lights, not to mention the joggers with the reflective strips on their shoes and clothing. I even see some folks walking their dogs who are sporting flashing red strobes on their collars.
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It is amazing what these inexpensive safety devices do in helping a motorist to see you long before they even realize they are coming up on a pedestrian or cyclist.
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The second time I came up on the woman in Arbor Heights I even stopped and rolled down my window (she probably thought I was some sort of weirdo) to engage her in a short conversation and compliment her on wearing a reflective device to be easily seen.
.

Posted 1 year ago #
JoB
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A couple of days ago i ended up in the traffic caused by the end of a school day in the Admiral district.

a man who was in a hurry laid into his horn because i stopped at a crosswalk with a school crossing guard to let children cross the street and waited until the guard cleared the intersection to make my turn.

a few blocks later the same man laid on his horn when i pulled as far as i could to the side of the road to let an ambulance pass and whipped around me before the ambulance had passed to speed through the red light at the next intersection.

and you are worried about pedestrians?

I don't think it is the duty of pedestrians to do a crossing walk dance and wear bright colors so drivers will see them
and then wait patiently to see whether drivers will obey the law
before they cross the street.

I think it is the duty of drivers to respect the fact that they are driving on city streets that are shared by others.

to hear some of you talk.. you would think it is a pedestrians job to somehow cross public streets in a manner that guarantees you won't miss them no matter how distracted you are...
and then to scurry across in the fastest manner possible so they don't hold you up.

Nobody is asking for much here...
Just obeying the laws as they are written will be enough.

I am not advocating rushing into the street...
but if you aren't paying attention
any pedestrian attempting to cross will appear to have bolted out of nowhere..

driving while distracted is not an excuse.
impatience is not an excuse.

there is no excuse.
Your license to drive comes with a huge dose of responsibility.

Posted 1 year ago #
Monosyllabic Girl
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I think that both pedestrians and drivers need to be aware that when there is a large vehicle parked immediately in front of the crosswalk, the driver cannot see a person standing on a curb until they clear the line of sight the vehicle is blocking out in the street. I have had to step out very carefully many times when there is a big Dodge Ram truck parked curbside because to a driver you appear at the last moment. Awareness. It works.

Posted 1 year ago #
I Wonder
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I enjoy sharing my experience today that disputes the people who say they never see it happen in WS. At California and Oregon. Solid red pedestrian light. Me, taking left turn on to Oregon from CA with a green light. You, dashing across the intersection in front of me (against the solid red walk sign). In the motorized wheel chair scooter. Thanks for scaring the bejesus out of me because of your low profile, speed in dashing across the intersection (motorized scooter), and against the red light to boot. Yeah, pedestrians are always right.

Posted 1 year ago #
I Wonder
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JoB, just curious, did you teach your kids to just tromp out into the street and that they should expect drivers to see them, and worry about the consequences later because somehow they would be protected by the "crosswalk gods"? Why shouldn't it apply to adults too? I can give you just as many instances of peds not paying attention, especially against red lights. What we need is more intersections like CA and Alaska, where peds only cross when the whole intersection is red for vehicles.

Posted 1 year ago #
MB
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I Wonder, totally agree with you.

Posted 1 year ago #
Genesee Hill
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I Wonder:

Yes, indeed, that is scary. I must say, a similar thing happened to me at the California/Alaska intersection. I had the green light to turn right and a pedestrian walked out right in front of me. So, even that intersection is not "foolproof."

Posted 1 year ago #
JanS
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OK...there are idiots out there both amongst pedestrians and drivers. That's why I said it's a 50/50 proposition. EVERYONE needs to pay more attention when out and about. Gen. Hill..glad that you didn't collide with said scooter person. Those things scare me. I really appreciate it when users put a little flag up so people can see them. If we all paid attention, followed the Rulez, and didn't think that we were above it all at times, the world would be a better place. Well, at least the WS streets :)

Posted 1 year ago #
metrognome
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JoB -- so, I assume that when you leave home (and no one else is there,) you leave the front door wide open, cuz, I mean after all, it is illegal for someone to enter without your permission and take your stuff, so why should you have to be bothered with locks and keys and stuff???

If you are a pedestrian and you want to live, it is in fact your "job to somehow cross public streets in a manner that guarantees [drivers] won't miss [you] no matter how distracted" the drivers are. Otherwise, your tombstone will read, "S/He shoulda stopped for me." If you are a driver, it is in fact your "job to somehow [drive on] public streets in a manner that guarantees [you won't hit pedestrians] no matter how distracted" the pedestrians are.

Drivers, peds and bicyclists are all human and therefore will not pay attention 100% of the time; therefore, we are talking about US not THEM. Some of us will do remarkably stupid things either occasionally or frequently. It is everyone's responsibility to make sure the people whose paths we cross get home safely. If you are driving, that is all you should be doing (if necessary, lock misbehaving kids or pets in the trunk; punch a few airholes first.) If you are walking, you should be paying attention the same way you are supposed to pay attention when driving. Ditto for bicyclists. If you don't want to get home alive, then by all means, don't pay attention, wear those earbuds, open that candy bar, etc.

Keep this thought in mind: would you rather have a boring drive / walk / ride home or would you rather see a body flying over your windshield (or be the body flying over the windshield?) Do you want to have to explain to your kids that you are going to jail for a few years because it was more important to (fill in the blank) than it was to drive/walk/bike with all your senses? Or to explain to your kids that their (fill in the blank) won't be coming home because someone thought it was more important to (fill in the blank) than it was to drive or walk or bike? A friend of mine was hit in the crosswalk at CA/Dakota 14 months ago; she has recovered and returned to work, but she will be affected physically for the rest of her life.

The city of Seattle used to have a great publication on ped safety, which of course I can't find now. The most crucial tip is for peds to make eye contact with a driver before stepping in front of their vehicle. You may think they see you but you can only be sure if you make eye contact; if you can't, it is foolish at best and deadly at worst to step in front because 'they should stop.'

Posted 1 year ago #
Flyonthewall
Member Profile

As someone that drives approx. 130-160 miles per day in-city, I have to say how frustrated I am with the number of pedestrians who step out in front of me without checking to see if I've seen them. This happens all over downtown and W Seattle. When you are driving there are a myriad of things you have to watch simultaneously and it's not always possible to see someone trying to cross in a non-crosswalk intersection. I may be checking my rear-view or side view mirrors or watching another car.

Personally, I never stop for any pedestrians on major arterials if they are not at a crosswalk - this includes 35th, California and Delridge. I can't tell you the number of times I've almost been rear-ended by trying to do so and I've noticed that even cops don't stop on those roads either. On neighborhood streets I have no problem stopping when people are clearly visible.

Pedestrians need to take their earphones off, get their phone out of their face, and do away with the "I'm entitled to step out in front of you" attitude in this town. It's dangerous. Use the damn crosswalks!

Posted 1 year ago #
austin
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There is no such thing as a "non crosswalk intersection" in seattle. If your surroundings distract you so much that you can't see people you shouldn't be driving.

Posted 1 year ago #
metrognome
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FOTW -- you may want to brush up on the traffic code before you get a ticket or kill someone. Drivers are required to yield to pedestrians at all intersections whether their is a painted crosswalk or not.

And for some other commenters, peds do have to yield to cars when crossing at a location other than a crosswalk:

WAC 132E-16-040

Pedestrians -- Right of way.

(1) Stopping for pedestrian. The operator of an approaching vehicle shall stop and remain stopped to allow a pedestrian to cross the roadway within a crosswalk unmarked or marked when the pedestrian is upon or within one lane of the half of the roadway upon which the vehicle is traveling or onto which it is turning.

(2) Pedestrian sudden movements. No pedestrian shall suddenly leave a curb or other place of safety and walk or run into the path of a vehicle which is so close that it is impossible for the driver to stop.

(3) Subsection (1) of this section shall not apply under the conditions stated in subsection (6) of this section.

(4) Overtaking vehicles stopped for pedestrian. Whenever any vehicle is stopped at a marked crosswalk or at any unmarked crosswalk at an intersection to permit a pedestrian to cross the roadway, the driver of any other vehicle approaching from the rear shall not overtake and pass such stopped vehicle.

(5) Yield right of way. Every pedestrian crossing a roadway at any point other than in a marked crosswalk or within an unmarked crosswalk at an intersection shall yield the right of way to all vehicles upon the roadway.

(6) Curb ramps. Where curb ramps exist at or adjacent to intersections or at marked crosswalks in other locations, disabled persons may enter the roadway from the curb ramps and cross the roadway within or as closely as practicable to the crosswalk. All other pedestrian rights and duties as defined elsewhere in this code remain applicable.

http://www.seattle.gov/transportation/PedestrianLaw.htm

Posted 1 year ago #
JanS
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Seems like some people just like to call JoB out in this forum..it's getting old. I would suggest you meet her, get to know her, and maybe you'd just understand what she meant. I didn't read anything into what she said that meant that pedestrians are privileged and don't have to look when they step off the curb. Off course we look at the traffic before we cross. For instance, I am disabled, walk very slowly, with a cane. I have to know that I can make it across the street in plenty of time. I joke about " They wouldn't dare hit a woman with a cane"...but the fact of the matter is, yes, some of them would. But if I am crossing legally at a crosswalk, I expect drivers to STOP, because THEY'RE SUPPOSED TO. It doesn't just apply to every other car, or green ones only, or whatever.Again, I say it's a 50/50 proposition..both parties need to be responsible.

I know JoB doesn't need me defending her, but two different people have asked assinine questions in this thread because they don't agree with what she said. Doesn't add to anything, IMNSHO

Posted 1 year ago #
JoB
Member Profile

Yes, i did teach my children to look both ways before they crossed the street...

i just wish more drivers bothered to look both ways before they drove through an intersection.

crossing a public street in West Seattle on foot is literally taking you life into your hands these days... especially if you move slowly.

If you are driving it is part of your responsibility to actively watch for pedestrians as well as for other cars.

If it seems that people are constantly jumping out in front of you..
it's likely you aren't doing a very good job of watching
because most of us on foot are doing our best to avoid being run over.

if you can't chew bubble gum and drive at the same time.. spit out the gum..
turn off the radio..
step away from your cell phone...
and let work or the fight you are rehashing in your head go.

Pedestrians aren't the problem..

Posted 1 year ago #
JoB
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Metrognome...

and how long do you think a pedestrian will have to wait at a crosswalk to make eye contact with the drivers in both lanes going opposite directions...

not to mention the idiot who sees a stopped car as an invitation to pass?

it would be nice if all intersections were provided with those nice little buttons you hit to make traffic stop so you can cross...

but they aren't.

Posted 1 year ago #
DP
Member Profile

My sympathies tend to go with the pedestrian.

Just like me, he's cold.
He's exposed.
He's vulnerable.

However, there seems to be some sort of pedestrian suicide cult that has moved into our fair city, and frankly, it's got me worried.

You can spot these people most often on the mean streets of downtown (around 3rd and Pike) but lately I've seen them lurking around the Junction, pushing baby strollers across the street with one hand, juggling cell phones and purses with the other, arms flailing wildly as they gaze skyward, muttering imprecations to an unseen conversant.

What beat are these strange creatures marching to, exactly? (It certainly isn't the same one to which the traffic signals are attuned.)

And what is it they're searching for through those darkly tinted spectacles of theirs? Are they waiting for the mother ship to deliver them, perchance?

It may be arriving sooner than they think. But rather than the glamorous space ship they were expecting, it may take the form of a much more prosaic vehicle.

Posted 1 year ago #
TDe
Member Profile

"You can spot these people most often on the mean streets of downtown (around 3rd and Pike) but lately I've seen them lurking around the Junction, pushing baby strollers across the street with one hand, juggling cell phones and purses with the other, arms flailing wildly as they gaze skyward, muttering imprecations to an unseen conversant."

Ha DP... good one. I saw almost that exact pedestrian crossing at the Alaksa Junction recently. I was stopped at the stoplight, so no worries about running over anyone. She began to cross when the light was almost done blinking and didn't make it to the other side until it had actually turned green for traffic. We were all patient and waited until this muttering person was on the sidewalk and I worried a bit about the child in the her stroller. I assusmed she had a bluetooth, but who knows...

Posted 1 year ago #
MB
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Um, I'm pretty sure JoB can take it, considering she dishes it ALL the time. And it's funny because most the the comments disagreeing with each other are actually agreeing with each other, just in different words. More than half of us are saying pedestrians need to pay better attention as well as drivers. Just because YOU are a smart ped, doesn't mean all others are. I know I'm a pretty good driver, but am not silly enough to think that means everyone else is too. Come on. This blog sure is entertaining ;) Oh, and high five to the couple on an Alki side street last night that didn't get killed only because THIS driver WAS the only one paying attention. I have no problem stopping for people, it just helps if you have some sort of clue they are about to randomly change corse and head into the street mid block without even looking up, let alone both ways. Yet another pedestrian saved by the fact that I'm not oblivious ;)

Posted 1 year ago #
I Wonder
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Yes, I would agree JoB can handle herself, and assume the worst in everyone else to make her case, and that everyone on her side is an angel. Its not piling on when the assumptions are assinine too, Jan. Have a nice day everyone, and to all, keep your eyes peeled!

Posted 1 year ago #
JoB
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I Wonder...

I wonder what you would have to say if i made personal comments about you on the forum?

i wonder?

Posted 1 year ago #
JanS
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I rest my case - lol...

Posted 1 year ago #
JoB
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I may seem pretty hard line to some..
but here's the deal...

In discussing this people have stated that they don't stop at unmarked crosswalks... otherwise known as intersections... for pedestrians because they fear being rear ended by other drivers.

and that is a valid fear.

people have stated that they can't see pedestrians at intersections because other drivers have chosen to park their larger vehicles too close to the intersection.

another truth... in fact larger vehicles are more likely to park at the end of a block if possible simply because they need more room to maneuver out of a parking space and the empty intersection gives them that room.

people have complained about pedestrians who legally enter an intersection while the crosswalk light is still blinking but do not clear it before the traffic light changes.

well, i have to ask.

if it is unsafe to cross the street at unmarked intersections..
and equally unsafe to legally cross the street at marked intersections

what incentive do pedestrians have to walk to the corner to cross the street?

I don't walk much any more at all on city streets and certainly not where there are unmarked intersections because it isn't safe for me to cross the street..
running to avoid being run over is no longer one of my options.

and while i agree that it is a dangerous world out there for anyone on foot...

the idea that pedestrians should be taken to task for not adequately taking care of their own safety while drivers admit that they don't stop for a pedestrian legally attempting to cross a street because they fear being rear ended by other drivers really sticks in my craw.

And i am guessing it is equally aggravating to others who simply aren't willing to take the flak to say so.

Calling me names or making comments about my character won't change the fact that there is a large need to address pedestrian safety.

A close friend lost his parents to a driver who complained that they were too small and their clothing was too dark and she was talking on her cell phone and just plain didn't see them. It was their fault.. not hers.

She hit them mid-intersection and they were still holding hands when pronounced dead at the scene.

And would you believe it?
In spite of clear laws to the contrary.. the woman was not prosecuted.

I have a problem with that.
And silly old woman that i am..
I think you should too.

Posted 1 year ago #
JanS
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and now...an adult and a 22 month old child...hit by a car in an intersection in the last hour or so. Will be interesting to hear what the circumstances were. Supposedly the car was only going 10-15 MPH. And the child was thrown into the air and injured. Imagine if that driver had been going 30 MPH. We will know what happened later...this was an accident, and we can't blame it on speed.Inattention? Perhaps..Sun in the eyes? could be. Sad, no matter what the cause. It's a well marked and signalled intersection...it shouldn't happen there.

Posted 1 year ago #
JoB
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that's the intersection where the idiot laid on his horn at me because i waited for a school crossing guard to clear the intersection before turning right onto California...

i am glad the woman and her child are ok.

Posted 1 year ago #
I Wonder
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Knock yourself out, JoB.

Posted 1 year ago #