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January 7, 2015 at 4:58 pm #816464
I WonderMemberDiscuss.
January 7, 2015 at 5:49 pm #820509
wakefloodParticipantNo free press? No free speech.
I would dearly love to see rational Muslims turn out in mobs protesting this act and helping find and turn in the perpetrators. Silence is implicit acceptance of an unacceptable act.
Want to prove Bill Maher and Sam Harris wrong? Here’s a powerful way to prove it.
January 7, 2015 at 8:42 pm #820510
JoBParticipantwake..
“I would dearly love to see rational Muslims turn out in mobs protesting this act and helping find and turn in the perpetrators. Silence is implicit acceptance of an unacceptable act.”
why should we expect more of Muslims than of ourselves?
we have allowed the freedom of the press to be seriously eroded here in the United States while we sat on our collective hands and bemoaned the state of journalism.
we aren’t bombing what we find offensive here..
but we aren’t actively upholding our right to be offended either
January 7, 2015 at 10:58 pm #820511
charlabobParticipantJanuary 8, 2015 at 12:48 am #820512
JTBParticipantThere is a vigil tonight for Charlie Hebdo at 7pm at the French Consulate—-2200 Alaska Way.
January 8, 2015 at 1:10 am #820513
rwParticipantThanks for the link, Charlabob. I really needed that after seeing some of the online video. So far I haven’t seen similar reports of Muslim reactions on the US news outlets that I looked at, but then it’s early and I’ve only looked at a few news sites. I hope all condemnations by Muslim leaders get wider play.
January 8, 2015 at 3:53 am #820514
JoBParticipantthe history of violence in the United States by Christian extremists is not a pretty thing…
yet no-one expects Christians to fill the street expressing shame at the extremists within their midsts
why should it be different simply because the offending extremists claim to be Muslim?
i think it’s time that we stopped labeling entire populations of people with the violent acts of the extremists among them…
today’s facebook brought a “lovely” piece by Matt Walsh labeling Muslims the most violent religion ever
i guess he hasn’t looked into Christian extremism here in these United States..
what happened in Paris is beyond horrible…
caving to the justifications of extremist terrorists reflects badly on us all
January 8, 2015 at 6:01 am #820515
dobroParticipanthttp://www.cnn.com/2015/01/07/us/naacp-office-explosion/index.html
I’m guessing the balding white guy that tossed this bomb is a Christian. See any Christians coming out to denounce him? Then I guess he represents all Christians.
January 8, 2015 at 3:12 pm #820516
JoBParticipantwake.. i apologize if it looks to you like i jumped down your throat. i didn’t mean to.
i had just finished reading my brother’s like and share of Mat Walsh’s piece and was appalled at the rush to naming muslims this decade’s “gooks”… and was appalled that someone i knew to be a “good” man could applaud such vile racist rantings. i over-reacted to your comment.
Muslim leaders have stepped up to denounce this act of violence as they have every time something similar happens..
but to expect muslims to step into the streets and invite violence to themselves in an anti-muslim climate is expecting too much.
It is so easy to label people with the crimes of the worst of their fanatics …
i can remember a point here not so long ago that i had to step up to remind people that being a Christian was not synonymous with being a right wing conservative fanatic…
in my not so humble opinion.. we need to make an effort to label the people who perpetuate this kind of violence in the name of their own fanaticism extremists..fanatics .. terrorists
and not imply that they are somehow representative of their faith.
January 8, 2015 at 9:00 pm #820517
metrognomeParticipantsometimes the bull needs to be poked because it is really only a sack of bullshite.
je suis Charlie.
As far as homegrown religious fanaticism in this country, I don’t recall anyone, including conservatives, referring to Timothy McVeigh’s blowing the Murrah Federal Bldg, including the daycare, to smithereens as an act of Christian terrorism.
January 9, 2015 at 6:57 am #820518
captainDaveParticipantI think traditional muslim leaders should step up and assure the American people that their teachings are not a clear and present danger to our nation. But that is not likely to happen because the Quaran doesn’t permit lying.
From CNN: “Egyptian President Abdel Fattah el-Sisi has called for a “religious revolution,” asking Muslim leaders to help in the fight against extremism.”
http://edition.cnn.com/2015/01/06/africa/egypt-president-speech/
I would suspect that the vast majority of muslim-Americans immigrated here to escape the oppression in their home countries–just like everyone else. Nevertheless, many continue faithfully follow religious scripture having elements that are just as hateful, and ILLEGAL as the doctrines of the KKK.
Islam has a 1,400 year history of being a religion of war, conquest and subjugation. Read it yourself at http://www.quran.com: Don’t miss verse 47:4 (decapitation of infidel), 4:34 (subjugating women), and verse 9:29 (killing Christians).
According to CAIRSeattle.org, there are 80,000 to 100,000 muslim followers attending more than 50 mosques in Washington State. The vast majority are great peace loving and tolerant people working to preserve heritage and morality. But…
CAIR is a strong lobby group. Recently they achieved Washington Senate Resolution 8652 which seems redundant to our constitution with regard to religious freedom–except for one little line at the end which allows for the introduction of Sharia Law to be introduced in our courts.
Here it is: http://apps.leg.wa.gov/billinfo/summary.aspx?bill=8652&year=2013#documents
You can join 500 muslims on January 19th in Olympia if you are interested in helping pave the way for changing our courts (Especially if you hate things like equal rights for women):
Sorry, I don’t think i will be attending. A federal judge determined that CAIR was linked to the terror group Hamas:
http://www.investigativeproject.org/2340/federal-judge-agrees-cair-tied-to-hamas
Here some more info about CAIR for anyone actually interested : http://www.frontpagemag.com/2012/adam-turner/more-people-must-care-about-cair/
BTW: 2,000 People were killed today by Muslim butchers in Nigeria:
http://www.irishtimes.com/news/world/africa/bodies-littered-on-the-streets-after-boko-haram-attack-on-baga-1.2059373 – I hope everyone condemns these brutal killings as well.
January 9, 2015 at 8:20 am #820519
JanSParticipantDave…take your hate elsewhere. There was a bombing of an NAACP office..maybe you missed it in the news…by a white , middle aged white Christian man…do we now condemn all white middle aged Christian men? Of course not. (hint:this man was not Christian, nevermind what he calls himself. He is a terrorist) Like I said…take your hate elsewhere..it’s not wanted here. At least not by me.
oh, and I just read 8652 in it’s entirety, and I did not see the words “Sharia Law” anywhere. Could you please tell me where you read that, maybe cut and paste here, since I missed it?
January 9, 2015 at 8:34 am #820520
JanSParticipantto the rest of the posters on here, my apologies. I am simply sick and tired of lies, implied truths that are falsehoods, reading things into whatever and then saying your thoughts as fact, and on and on, esp. when some of the hate comes from more radical websites that condemn Obama as Muslim, still bring up Benghazi, and on and on. Again, my apologies if my post to Dave was a bit over the top for any of you.
January 9, 2015 at 4:00 pm #820521
JoBParticipantstirring up hate won’t make any of us safer
January 9, 2015 at 5:19 pm #820522
HMC RichParticipantRunning from the problem solves nothing. Europe is in crisis. Free Speech is in crisis from radical islam. Sharia law is religious law and there are those who would want it world wide. Drawing equivalence to Christianity versus Islam is foolish. It draws the subject away from a religion that is based on 7th Century morals that does not promote individual freedom, especially for women.
January 9, 2015 at 5:40 pm #820523
dobroParticipant“According to CAIRSeattle.org, there are 80,000 to 100,000 muslim followers attending more than 50 mosques in Washington State. The vast majority are great peace loving and tolerant people working to preserve heritage and morality.”
If you acknowledge that the “vast majority” of Muslims are peace loving, tolerant people, how do you square that with them following a religion “having elements that are just as hateful, and ILLEGAL as the doctrines of the KKK.” and then condemn their religion? That’s called cognitive dissonance.
“Drawing equivalence to Christianity versus Islam is foolish”
Condemning an entire religion for the acts of a radical sect is what’s foolish. Also, the idea that Sharia law is going to be imposed “worldwide” is ridiculous.
This from Juan Cole on what’s actually happening in France, as opposed to what the corporate press wants to talk about…
“Al-Qaeda wants to mentally colonize French Muslims, but faces a wall of disinterest. But if it can get non-Muslim French to be beastly to ethnic Muslims on the grounds that they are Muslims, it can start creating a common political identity around grievance against discrimination.”
Here’s the rest of his article…
http://www.juancole.com/2015/01/sharpening-contradictions-satirists.html
January 9, 2015 at 5:49 pm #820524
LindseyParticipantYes, Christianity totally supports individual freedom, especially for women. Here are some key passages:
Hey, evil mob, don’t rape me. Rape my daughter and my mistress instead, that’s okay.
“Behold, here is my daughter a maiden, and his concubine; them I will bring out now, and humble ye them, and do with them what seemeth good unto you: but unto this man do not so vile a thing. But the men would not hearken to him: so the man took his concubine, and brought her forth unto them; and they knew her, and abused her all the night until the morning: and when the day began to spring, they let her go.” (Judges 19:24-25)
Women should shut up and listen in silence to the men, never to become teachers or leaders.
“Let the women learn in silence with all subjection. But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence.” (I Timothy 2:11-14)
“Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but they are commanded to be under obedience, as also saith the law. And if they will learn any thing, let them ask their husbands at home: for it is a shame for women to speak in the church.” (I Corinthians 14:34-35)
I could go on all day. Maybe, just maybe, most Muslims take Sharia law about as seriously as most Christians take the book of Leviticus. Have you been wearing any mixed fabrics or cross-breeding animals lately? Remember, labradoodles and polyester ARE ILLEGAL under Biblical law.
January 9, 2015 at 5:58 pm #820525
JoBParticipantHMCRich
“It draws the subject away from a religion that is based on 7th Century morals that does not promote individual freedom, especially for women.”
Christianity predates the Islam by 7 centuries and is no less repressive to women..
especially as interpreted by the same kind of modern fanatics that are interpreting Islam in it’s worst light.
fanatics are fanatics…
they have never been good news.. no matter which religion they espoused
January 9, 2015 at 6:35 pm #820526
skeeterParticipantHey dobro (#8) I read the article you linked. I didn’t see anything that suggested this man’s Christian faith is what motivated this act of violence. Please explain the comparison you are making because I’m confused.
January 9, 2015 at 7:10 pm #820527
SmittyParticipantI’m with you skeets.
Most examples are nut jobs committing violent acts who “happen” to be Christian.
Anyone committing their crime “because” or “in the name of” Christianity are roundly, soundly – and most importantly LOUDLY condemned by their faith.
I have spent a lot of time in Turkey and have many. many muslim friends – all of whom condemn these actions. However, I rarely – if ever – see any kind of condemnation by muslim leaders on a grand scale to root out these people and draw a clear line of differentiation between their version of islam and the extremists.
That could be a media issue, but I doubt it.
January 9, 2015 at 8:02 pm #820528
LindseyParticipantLike Dobro said, the terrorist win if you are getting into identity politics. That’s the whole point of their terrorism. Get people angry at all Muslims as a way of gathering Muslim support for their evil deeds. Divide and conquer.
Smitty, can you tell me which Muslim leaders, specifically, you are looking to see condemn these actions? And where are you looking to see this? It’s not hard to find.
http://www.timesofisrael.com/muslim-leaders-condemn-french-attack-but-fail-to-explain-it/
January 9, 2015 at 8:31 pm #820529
dobroParticipant“Please explain the comparison you are making because I’m confused.”
I’m assuming he’s a Christian because he’s described as a balding white man in his 40s. Just like if he had dark skin and wore a robe I’d have to assume he was Muslim, right? And since he’s a Christian and he did something horrible, I’m condemning all Christians for his act. And since no Christian leaders are stepping up to condemn him, I’m attacking Christianity as a violent religion that promotes hatred, subjugation of women, etc. See how that works?
January 9, 2015 at 8:48 pm #820530
dobroParticipant“Most examples are nut jobs committing violent acts who “happen” to be Christian.”
So, on the one hand, we realize these nutcases from religion #1 are operating outside of their religion, while on the other hand…
“…on a grand scale to root out these people and draw a clear line of differentiation between their version of islam and the extremists.”
with religion #2, we need “clear lines” and need leaders to reassure us that criminal acts and actors don’t represent said religion.
How’s bout we use some common sense and realize that extremists and criminals represent only their own agenda and refrain from promoting religious hatred and division?
January 9, 2015 at 9:27 pm #820531
anonymeParticipantReligious hatred, no. Religious derision, on the other hand, is not only fair, but probably necessary in order for a rational society to exist.
As for the title of this thread, I don’t see it as an either/or situation. It is the responsibility of a free press to “poke the bull”.
January 9, 2015 at 9:33 pm #820532
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