West Seattle Blog...

WSB Forum » Open Discussion

1. wakeflood
   Member Profile

   Hello,
   The Fauntleroy Community Association meeting on Nov. 13 has added "OFF LEASH DOGS - LINCOLN PARK" to their agenda.

   I am looking for one or two other folks to join me to discuss the issue with the Board and look at what is the core issue and if the Board wants to pursue either a position on it or some action.

   I'm hoping that people like "ratsincage" and "DBP" might be able to join, as well as someone or two folks who might want to discuss this from a dog ownership position.

   If this issue reaches a threshold of needing a separate open meeting to discuss as a community (I think it might?) then we can broach that at that time.

   Thanks for reading.

   Posted 7 months ago #         

2. DBP
   Member Profile

   Oh hell, yeah!

   Please contact me at DP_Editor at comcast dot net and we'll synchronize watches.

   

   (I'll be the guy on the left, but only because I'm older. Probably.)

   Posted 7 months ago #         

3. wakeflood
   Member Profile

   Thanks, DP! See you there.

   I think I'll print out some of the more relevant comments from both sides of this on the WSB and bring with...

   Posted 7 months ago #         

4. wakeflood
   Member Profile

   Talked to my neighbor who has a dog and walks in the park. She said that there definitely IS a "flash-mob", illegal off leash area in the park.

   She doesn't participate and I'm sure that the dog trainer who posted in the other thread here last week would take issue with this.

   Having said that, I'd sure like someone from that owner's group to stand up and defend what they're doing. Care to show up at the meeting anyone?

   Hello out there?...

   Posted 7 months ago #         

5. WSratsinacage
   Member Profile

   What time is the meeting? I will try to make it. Thanks for running with this. Please send out results from the meeting.

   Posted 7 months ago #         

6. wakeflood
   Member Profile

   I'm not 100% sure but it's usually 7pm. I'll go and check at the FCA website and post for you.

   Thanks for staying involved!!

   T

   Posted 7 months ago #         

7. DBP
   Member Profile

   >>Talked to my neighbor who has a dog and walks in the park. She said that there definitely IS a "flash-mob", illegal off leash area in the park.

   –How would we even know whether it's a flash mob? There are so many people off-leashing now, the only thing missing is the "flash."

   While there may be good spots around town to set aside off-leash areas, Lincoln Park is not one of them. We just had a huge turnout of local people who said they didn't want a zipline feature in LP because it would have marred the park's ambience and would have been disruptive to wildlife, remember? Do people think an off-leash area wouldn't have a similar effect? Just go visit the off-leash park at Westcrest and you'll see what I mean. Once you set aside an area for off-leash dogs, you are essentially taking that land (plus a big slice of the land around it) away from the general public. You can't walk through one those places without getting dog all over you.

   Plus, they reek of dog poop. Ugh!

   I hope the same people who turned out to protest the zipine will come to this meeting and voice their concerns about off-leashing.

   Posted 7 months ago #         

8. wakeflood
   Member Profile

   Well, I'm guessing this meeting won't be that big turnout since it isn't posted anyplace but the FCA meeting calendar. BUT, I'm going to ask if WSB would post a note about it a few days before the meeting and maybe that will generate a few more attendees.

   That zipline meeting was sponsored by the Parks Dept./City of Seattle so it was much more highly publicized...

   Posted 7 months ago #         

9. anonyme
   Member Profile

   I completely agree with Mr. P. Furthermore, I don't believe for a second that people who now allow their dogs off leash in the park would suddenly be content to restrict themselves to one area if an off-leash area were to be provided. Just as with speeders, enforcement is the only solution. Tolerance and appeasement only make the situation worse.

   Posted 7 months ago #         

10. DBP
    Member Profile

    wakeflood, if you can find out when and where the so-called flash mob happens, let me know and I'll go over there and get some pix. I'll bring them along for the FCA meeting.

    Posted 7 months ago #         

11. wakeflood
    Member Profile

    I should have clarified my phrase - I used "flash mob" to suggest that they just seem to gather up over time in the upper meadows. I don't think they do an actual communication amongst themselves but I could be wrong? I think they've just gotten used to using that spot and owners share it word of mouth or just by running into it.

    It was a Sunday late afternoon in one of the meadow areas that has several deciduous trees around. I think the area is bounded by trail #10 on the West and #7 on the East, #11 on the South and #3 on the North?

    Posted 7 months ago #         

12. John Q Public
    Member Profile

    

    The meeting is tonight at FCA. I'd love to hear the outcome if wakeflood, DBP, or anyone else goes. Thanks!

    Posted 6 months ago #         

13. wakeflood
    Member Profile

    I'll post a brief recap here tonight if I can get back to it.

    Basically, I expect that this is just a baby step toward any resolution. The FCA doesn't have any authority to take action but they can potentially, throw their board's weight in on at least getting visibility on the issue - maybe with the city and/or animal control for starters.

    Again, just informational tonight to get them aware of the problem.

    Posted 6 months ago #         

14. wakeflood
    Member Profile

    OK, here's what happened last night.

    There's strong support on the board to get this community discussion going. It was already on their radar but has been kicked up a few levels in terms of intensity.

    The board has connections to City Animal Control and will have a rep come to their next board meeting in Dec. to talk to them about what AC policies are, how they work enforcement, etc. This is just preparation for step 2, which is...

    Sometime in February there is an already planned community meeting on Lincoln Park. They'll have representatives of Animal Control, Seal Watchers, and other groups that have connections to talk to people about how off leash dogs impact the park and (likely) inform the public that off leash enforcement is coming to Lincoln Park. This is in hopes that the message is sent and self-enforcement starts to happen amongst dog owners. (Which is what many of us believe is the only real solution.)

    There is some expectation amongst the attendees last night that the concept of a new, sanctioned off leash area in Lincoln Park will get floated by some owners. There was also strong support last night that any idea of that has to be floated by someone in the dog community first. It won't be broached or offered by the FCA. If they want it, they have to do the work to see if they can get the public to support it.

    There may have to be additional public meetings after Feb. but that remains to be seen.

    I plan to attend the Dec. FCA board meeting to hear the Animal Control person and see what's recommended moving forward.

    DPB also attended and can clarify anything I wrote. :-)

    Posted 6 months ago #         

15. John Q Public
    Member Profile

    

    Great. Thank you!

    Posted 6 months ago #         

16. DBP
    Member Profile

    Thanks, wake. Yes, this was a productive meeting, and it confirmed my faith in FCA as a well-run neighborhood organization.

    I don't relish the idea of dog owners getting "busted" or having to pay big fines. I prefer the emphasis to be on public education, with the threat of getting a ticket to back that up.

    If dog owners want an off-leash park at LP, I'd argue vigorously against that, because I believe that will have the effect of turning all of LP into an off-leash area, which is directly counter to my purpose in raising the issue. (I want fewer off-leash dogs there, not more.)

    Having said that, though, I respect dog owners' right to advocate for another off-leash area, as long as they continue to obey the law in the meantime.

    Posted 6 months ago #         

17. JoB
    Member Profile

    DBP

    i am in favor of them getting busted.

    those who choose to ignore the law by walking their dogs off leash make it impossible for me to walk my dogs legally on leash in that same park.

    for some silly reason i have the perverse idea that my right to legally use the park trumps their right to ignore the law.

    silly me.

    Bust em!

    if they were observing the law we wouldn't be having this conversation.

    Posted 6 months ago #         

18. wakeflood
    Member Profile

    I think this is just one of those hot button issues with intensity on all sides.

    One of the board members actually was working at KC Animal Control for many years and knows the City AC Mgr. She seemed ready to get enforcement started asap with no excuses. While I actually think that's just fine - given that A) Signage is and has been posted. B) We have had discussions on this topic both here and at the park itself that are intense and quite public with vocal calls for enforcement.

    In other words, I'd be satisfied with a note posted here on WSB front page indicating that AC was going to start enforcement with a week's notice and just do it. It's not like it's sneaking up on anyone.

    I don't think of it as the ultimate solution but it certainly helps those who obey the law - especially other dog owners - have a little support and more importantly CREDIBILITY - when they choose to ask others for compliance.

    I think there was potentially some resistance to a strong enforcement policy starting right now on the board but I am only basing that on a gut feel and not any direct statement. Clearly at least one was about doing it right now, as I mentioned above...

    Posted 6 months ago #         

19. anonyme
    Member Profile

    I would have supported immediate enforcement with no warning - or rather, no ADDITIONAL warning. There is no confusion on the part of the law-breakers; they are in flagrant defiance of the law and they know it. Time they paid the price. I'm glad to hear this is going forward. Let the whinging begin!

    Posted 6 months ago #         

20. SJoy
    Member Profile

    

    I'm with most of the other posters. The people walking their dogs off leash are fully aware that they could get a ticket. They do not need anymore warnings.

    I can't wait to see the first post from someone crying "how dare they ticket me, my dog is so well behaved and just the cutest little Fido in the world- he's not like all those other dogs".

    Let the crying begin!!!!

    Posted 6 months ago #         

21. me on 28th Ave SW
    Member Profile

    They would certainly line their coffers if they did begin to ticket. DH and I saw 14(!) off leash dogs during a 30 minute walk Sunday around 9am. We saw 3 dogs on leash during this same walk. Every owner we observed of an off-leash dog, was somewhere between 30-65 and white. I only mention this because if large groups of young, ethnic dog owners with "scary looking dogs" were doing the same thing I can only imagine the public outcry.

    Posted 6 months ago #         

22. DBP
    Member Profile

    >>how dare they ticket me, my dog is so well behaved and just the cutest little Fido in the world- he's not like all those other dogs

    SJoy . . . Ha! I can definitely corroborate that. Did you check out my "Dogs Run Free" thread? On that thread I included an audio recording of a woman on the beach with her four off-leash Golden Retrievers. I calmly explained to her that dogs weren't allowed on the beach because of the poop.

    Her reply: "My dogs would never do that."

    [Wha . . . ? She probably thinks their poop smells good, too. Just like hers.]

    I then calmly pointed out to her that her dogs were a hazard to seal pups, that they could go after them.

    Her reply: "I'll keep an eye out for that."

    Me: "You don't really care about the law, do you?"

    Her: "No."

    Listen for yourself:

    http://tinyurl.com/9e4vayw

    Posted 6 months ago #         

23. anonyme
    Member Profile

    I think a good punishment for anti-leash, non-scoopers would be to rub THEIR noses in a big, steaming pile of....

    Starting with the smug woman in Mr. P's audio.

    Seriously. Start with a big fine. Second offense would involve not only a fine, but community service in the form of at least 8 hours of scooping dog crap in public parks.

    Beyond that --- see first sentence.

    Posted 6 months ago #         

24. miws
    Member Profile

    

    I think a good punishment for anti-leash, non-scoopers would be to rub THEIR noses in a big, steaming pile of....

    ....Shaving Cream? ;-)

    Mike

    Posted 6 months ago #         

25. SJoy
    Member Profile

    

    Yes DBP - I did see that when you originally posted it. I had a little bit of that attitude of "my dog would never do that" until he did. I learned very quickly that perfectly obedient dogs can and will do something that you do not expect at anytime. They are animals.

    Posted 6 months ago #         

26. anonyme
    Member Profile

    BTW, Mr. P, one other thing I noticed in your post referencing your audio recording of Ms. Entitlement and her FOUR golden retrievers: you're not allowed to have more than 3 pets within Seattle City limits (as in dogs & cats - pigs, chickens, & goats have different rules). So, 'Miss-Smug-Needs-Her-Nose-Rubbed-In-It' is actually in violation of multiple ordinances. Why am I not surprised?

    Posted 6 months ago #         

RSS feed for this topic

Reply

You must log in to post.