WSB Forum » Politics

(103 posts)

Occupy Seattle Photos

  • Started 7 months ago by DP
  • Latest reply from olive.and.june

  1. No slight on Jiggers's Occupy Seattle post, but this material seemed like it belonged in its own space.

    This was the first thing I saw at Westlake when I dropped in yesterday evening. These young women were at the northwest corner of the park with placards . . .

    Obviously I didn't get the full text on the placards, but the one on the left says:

    Unemployed College Grad
    Occupation is my Occupation

    The one on the right says:

    $40,000 in Student Loan Debt
    $4000 in Credit Card Debt
    I Have a Degree + Minimum Wage Job
    Where's My Bailout?

     

    Posted 7 months ago #         
  2. velo_nut
    Member Profile

    velo_nut

    Lets see...
    .
    I Didn't get a student loan
    Didn't fall into credit card debt
    No degree but I have military background and trade schools
    I don't need a bailout because I have a great paying job.
    .
    All of you who think that College automatically entitles you to a job are morons.

    Posted 7 months ago #         
  3. In the above image, I photoshopped the guy's head to show you that he was wearing a black nylon stocking. Presumably this was to demonstrate his utter anonymity. (See also the "Anonymous" mask in following photos.)

    I asked the guy if he was a mime, but he just shook his head. Perhaps he was a ninja.

    On second thought, no. If he were a ninja, he probably would've administered the Touch of Death (silently of course) over the mime comment.

    Annnnyyywaaaaay . . . here we see the second half of the "I Am the 99%" Act . . .

    Posted 7 months ago #         
  4. Of all the photos I took, this is the only journalism quality one. And even that's stretching it.

    This guy seemed to be the informal spokesman for the group of youth on the corner. His name is Sean. I didn't bother to ask whether these young people were part of some official group, but it doesn't really matter, because the whole Occupy Seattle thing is just a loose coalition of folks anyway.

    In any event, I was impressed by Sean's committment to non-violence. In fact, I was very impressed – shocked almost – to see so MANY young people who weren't zoned out in iPod land.

    You can agree or disagree with their politics. You can call them naive. But you can't fault them for being lazy or directionless. I think it takes guts to get your ass out there on a rainy streetcorner, for no reward whatever, and at the risk of people hurling insults at you.

    Sean & company . . . are you out there looking at this?

    Good karma, man.
    Good karma!!

    Posted 7 months ago #         
  5. skeeter
    Member Profile

    I have a solution to the unemployment problem. It must be terribly frustrating to complete an education (whether high school or college) and have no jobs available. Perhaps the problem is that computers and globalization and efficient farming have made it so that it’s no longer necessary to have everyone from age 18 (or 22) to 62 (or 70!!) working 40 plus hours per week.
    Let’s say the world had 100 people. Now let’s say that 70 of them were healthy and able to work. The other 30 were too young or too old or not healthy enough to work. Now let’s say that it takes 2,100 hours of work per week to provide all the food, services, medical needs, housing, and manufactured goods for those 100 people. Scenario A: each of the 70 people works 30 hours per week, and all the work gets done. Scenario B: 50 of the people work 42 hours per week to get all the work done. The other 20 people look for work that doesn’t exist.
    Do you see what I’m getting at? If we have persistent unemployment, perhaps the answer is to spread the work out more evenly? Time spent looking for a job that doesn’t exist is wasted time.

    Posted 7 months ago #         
  6. FYI: Bradley Manning is the Army guy who spilled secrets to WikiLeaks. He's in some federal maximum-security prison now, I think. For a while, he was stripped of his clothing and put into solitary confinement there.

    I don't agree with what Manning did, but I also think the solitary confinment thing was rather harsh. Obviously, the government wanted to send a message . . .

    The image above shows more young people. These two did not appear to me to be in the same category with the first bunch; rather, they appeared to be street kids. These two had been staying in the park since the occupation began, which didn't seem to be the case for the first group.

    When I talked to these two, their focus wasn't as much on big banks and corporate influence as it was on things like police harassment. The young woman on the right told me she was currently most upset about cops busting some thirty people over a couple of tents that had been set up in the park.

    Posted 7 months ago #         
  7. kootchman
    Member Profile

    Well Bradley in a different era could have been shot by firing squad. If that chick is 40K in debt what the hell was she doing? Party down dude!. I am betting she has no degree in hard sciences, math, engineering... an Art History major? BS in Gender Studies? ... no shortage of jobs in computer science majors..if college was a "self discovery journey" on credit cards there ya go..maybe we should stop government student loans eh? Except to critical skills majors in short supply..if she was a geological engineer she would be employed at about 75K.... do they know they 80 per cent of employers are now reviewing social media content? Skeeter...that dilema was discussed by Thorstein Veblen (economist) over a hundred years ago... (he coined the phrase "conspicuous consumption) during the :mechanical age:... and he was dead wrong... that is an old axe with a dull edge. It will always be.. of that 100... there will be the energetic, ambitious who will do the heavy lifting... the rest.. well...there they are..,.. smile for the camera? France tried it with the 36 hour week...and unemployment rose and stayed over 8.5 per cent for decades... you WANT the productive work force to work as much as they can or will...

    Posted 7 months ago #         
  8. "Organizing meeting" –with the term "organize" to be construed very loosely.

    Just outside the ring of listeners, a nice lady was ladling chicken soup out of a kettle into the mugs of local starvlings. I felt this soup to be tepid and insubstantial; however, not wishing to be labeled a counter-revolutionary, I kept these criticisms to myself . . .
     
     

    I'm not gonna pull any punches here, folks. The skin on the back of this guy's head reminds me of a shar-pei dog's face.

    Now tell me something . . . where else can you go to get this kind of hard-hitting journalistic analysis?

    (And they wanted to censor me! They wanted to silence my voice!)

    Posted 7 months ago #         
  9. Bostonman
    Member Profile

    I agree with Velo, a degree or high school dimploma doesn't guarentee you anything at all. If you go to school and get student loans and can't get a job then you should look at your chosen profession and think about a higher level degree. Lots of people do it.

    I graduated high school in 1990 and went to school to be an electrician. When I got out of school no one was hiring, I couldn't even get into the GE where my dad had worked for 20 plus years. Guess what. I worked part time, got my license opened my own company and had a friend who had his own carpentry company building homes. He hired me to sub the electrical. After 4 years when I knew I wanted something more I went back to school.

    There are those who have the ambition and others who wants something given to them. Its there if you want it and are willing to take your lumps. I guess I could have graduated college and bitched that my first accounting job paid me $25k a year. I could have stood on a corner bitching and moaning but instead I worked hard.

    Posted 7 months ago #         
  10. OK, here's an upbeat development . . . At one point yesterday, the local constabulary appeared at Westlake and asked very nicely to be allowed to stand in solidarity with the demonstrators.

    [Oh . . . no wait. What was that?]

    I'm sorry, I'm sorry. It seems that the cops were actually there to BUST people . . .

    Bummer!!!

    Photos in this post contributed by WSB member Karen Farnsworth, who sent me the following comments along with them:

    The gathering was small and not well organized. Police action controlled the energy.

    Thanks for all the food you brought.
    I tried the dried prunes ... delicious!

    I'll send a couple pictures... The first is of new college graduates who can't find jobs and the second is of tent occupants resisting arrest.

    DP Note: Just ignore that comment about the prunes, please. It doesn't concern any of you.

    Oh, but Karen brought an eggplant for the demonstrators, though. (!) Is that weird? It's like:

     What do we want?
      –ORGANIC EGGPLANT!
     When do we want it?
      –NOW!!

    Only in Seattle.

     

    Posted 7 months ago #         
  11. interesting the comments form the local conservatives on here..jobs are plentiful, huh? Velo, you have a good job now. But I understand you spent a little time on the unemployed list, didn't you? And why would anyone assume that someone with college debt only got a Fine Arts Degree? (shaking head> There are stereotypes everywhere , aren't there?

    Posted 7 months ago #         
  12. velo_nut
    Member Profile

    velo_nut

    Good that you bring that up JanS, while I did spend time unemployed after the company went upside down, I did find my current job in what is considered the worst job market in our time... against 15 other folks who most had college degrees. Which just proves my point, Most kids dont have to go to college but they do any way because "thats just what you do" after high school.

    Military
    Trade Schools
    Apprenticeship

    these give you work experience right away as well as teach you life skills. THAT is what employers are looking for, not someone who spent 4 years proving they can hit a kegger and still make it to class.

    Posted 7 months ago #         
  13. kootchman
    Member Profile

    Umm .. because their are employee shortages in engineering? Any electrical engineers, chemical engineer here out of work? Bio-engineers? Chemists? Because every major engineering firm I know has openings and is asking me in I know "anybody" out there who is retired and is willing to work P/T ? Because, system analysts are by Bureau of Labor Stats.. are "short" by over 40%?....If you are coming out of college 40K in debt...4K in consumer debt... I won't employ you...at least not in any capacity that involves responsible planning. Wanna write you own ticket... add a foreign language minor, Mandarin, Japanese, Farsi, German, Portugese and wow...add another 30K to the base salary. We are granting visas like crazy to India, China, EU countries... for the right skill set. It is CRAZY to get a fine arts degree AND go into debt... better to work, go parttime and pay as you go.. it may take 6 -10 years..but the market is glutted with fine arts major... a grad from a good technical college in model making has a better shot at a entry level job with $$$. You can make a case that kind of debt load once you "find yourself" and head for a good paying major... supply and demand... it still works. Oh yea.. be sure to come to the interview fully "sleeved" or "tats" fully open to public view and piercings and gauges through your ears.

    Posted 7 months ago #         
  14. kootchman
    Member Profile

    Good point Velo... I started job hunting in the horrid "Jimmy Carter years..the guy who Oabma saved from the title of "worst president ever"... the industry I was employed in? 50% of the total capacity of production was idled. The prime interest rate was 18% ..the great "stagflation" years... the annual recruitment fair was cancelled for lack of employer interest... but... that military experience paid a handsome dividend... I was hired. In fact, I also had offers in finance and insurance as a statistician and turned them down...I was not a cubicle type of guy, Jan you know the saying about sterotypes? They are there because in the main they are true..

    Posted 7 months ago #         
  15. Jiggers
    Member Profile

    Jiggers

    I passed by Westlake Park this afternoon. I watched them for about 45 minutes or so.. Everytime they started a chant..the police came screaming down on their bikes and ordered them to stop disturbing the peace. They are also taking over the otherside of fourth avenue in front of Chase down to Macy's today. They really shouldn't congregate right in front of a major bustop by the waterfall.Police will have authority to arrest them if they don't let non-protesters get on their busses. It is going to ugly. Give it a couple more weeks.

    Posted 7 months ago #         
  16. kootchman
    Member Profile

    I give it two days of rain Jiggers...

    Posted 7 months ago #         
  17. Right on, dude!

    Posted 7 months ago #         
  18. singularname
    Member Profile

    The only info I've read on the Occupy deal are the two posts here. Why? Because I've been working, literally, 100+-hour weeks for the past 3 weeks. Why? Because I felt strongly that I wanted a diverse group of employees--no college, degreed, young, old, female, male--and as it turns out, I've had to fire three: Three fresh-out-of-college "adults." Why? No concept of what "work ethic" means and a jaw-dropping sense of "entitlement." These people--all college graduates with degrees directly aligned with our business (these are *dream jobs* if you're in this business)--were making $60K to $80K per year w/ FULL benefits. Months prior to their terminations, I was blunt with them on their performance ("if you do not do a, b, and c, I will fire you") and gave them an insane amount of counseling--my job as a manager, right? Well, I decided finally, No, it's not my job to have to cajole people to work hard and smart. They were incensed and "shocked" at their terminations.

    Now it gets a bit more interesting. My group has been assigned to apply our discipline at a strategic level rather than a tactical one. Rather than lay-off people (which I could have justified and done), I worked with them as a group and individuals on how to apply their skills and talents to the new roles, noting again same discipline. Get this ... 6 of 10 employees are *bitching* about it--"This isn't the job I was hired for," "You haven't made me a list of contacts to work with" (my reply: "Everyone's job is to discover who these contacts are--and now that you mention it, why don't you be responsible for the contacts list on everyone's behalf," an answer that received an eyeball roll), "I can't go on a business trip 48 hours after I return from vacation--I'll be too tired," (these are exact quotes), and on and on.

    Now I've got 6 more employees with big fat question marks next to their names. There's a couple in this group around the $100K mark. My mind is blown.

    I just hired a 62-year-old. No degree, but 4 decades of climbing his way to a lot of impressive milestones. He actually doesn't "need" the job in a desparate sort of way (at least to my knowledge) and he is lacking some key experience in a couple of areas, but having contracted for my me for 2 years, he is enthusiastic as all hell; can flex his brain around new and challenging problems; has learned, retained, and expanded everything myself and others have taught him about our business; and acts like (oh my!) an adult.

    I look at the young adults in the photos and read their brief MOs. I sense many strong similarities between them and my 3 ex-employees and my 6 wavering ones, and I'm just not "feelin' it" for them.

    There is work out there--I've got a damn lot of it to offer--but I need people who actually have a clue what "work" means.

    Needless to say, I am completely revamping my hiring practices, and now even that's proven astounding: I now vet potential employees by having them present--with prior notice they'll be presenting but not what specifically the topic will be other than their resume says they've done it to the satisfaction of all that is holy. It's on the fly, a 1-hour brainstorm in front of 5 people, and a real-world scenario of what their job will be about. Word has now come back from a few that my interviews are "unfair," "unreasonable," and "too hard." Go freakin' figure ...

    Anyhow ... apologies if I just bored the heck out of ya. Obviously I'm just sharing my experience on this "no jobs" component of the Occupy protests.

    Peace out Mighty West Seattlites ...

    Posted 7 months ago #         
  19. velo_nut
    Member Profile

    velo_nut

    Singularname: YES! EXACTLY!

    Posted 7 months ago #         
  20. On the other hand...

    I know college grads in sciences.. yes hard sciences .. who are having a tough time getting a job.

    these are kids with work ethics who graduated at the top of their classes.

    they show up for an interview and compete .. did i say compete.. against 100 to 150 other similarly qualified candidates.

    being in the top two doesn't land the job.

    I also know another "kid" who spent 6 years in the military in the engine room of an aircraft carrier and is also competing against 100+ candidates when he shows up for a job. And yes, he is very qualified and he was honorably discharged.

    How do I know these kids? They are family members.

    These kids don't lack a work ethic. While job hunting this summer they designed and built a 1200 sq foot deck thirty feet up using solid engineering techniques and the latest materials.

    their design included a hot tub.. a swinging bridge to a tree house deck, a bump out viewpoint with benches, a built in lighting system. a built in raised bed planter system at the sunny end for veggies and a system for redirecting water underneath the deck to create a separate dry patio space underneath... on which they then laid a raised paver patio with built in planter boxes along the perimeter and proper drainage.

    I also know college grads with advanced degrees from very good schools with 30+ years of experience in their fields... people considered at the top of their field ... who are out of work and have been for some time.

    It seems some companies prefer to hire cheaper college grads and "train" them.

    some of you may have gotten your start during tough economic times..

    but if you think these times are like all those other times you are fooling yourself.

    One can only hope you don't figure that out the hard way.

    Posted 7 months ago #         
  21. I talked briefly with a few of the demonstrators and told them that I too wanted a more democratic society but asked them to be careful what they pray for, because in my experience few Americans actually have either the patience or the interest required to "do" democracy on anything more than the most superficial level (namely: voting).

    I'm going to include one final photo in the next post. But before I do that, I want to warn you that the photo contains an obscenity, so it's possible someone will flag it – not just because THEY can't handle obscenity, but because they think YOU can't handle it.

    Here goes nothing . . .

    Posted 7 months ago #         
  22. 365Stairs
    Member Profile

    365Stairs

    If I did't have a solid, rewarding, challenging 17 year job (+ 2 other PT ones right now), I would totally be looking to work for singularname! You have issued a challenge to anyone that is listening...BE Prepared!

    Whatever got you where you are today, where ever you are in life stages, is not (necessarily) going to keep you in that place...Do more than is expected always...if you find yourself wandering...Stop it! Focus, bear down, and work! No work available? Change careers! Volunteer...mentor (if you can)....hell..just show up and "start swingin' a hammer" at a place...you may just be hired anyway...

    I dunno...give it a try...but standing around ("looking" stupid) being defiant, challenging uniformed authority over a tent...is not working!

    All of those that get arrested have a record now...75% chance of not hirable now...

    Posted 7 months ago #         
  23. I guess it all depends on what type of person you're looking to hire, doesn't it?

    Here, singularname . . . I'll help you write your next Help Wanted ad:

    ****************************************************************************************

    WANTED

    ¶ People who will ALWAYS do what EXACTLY what I say.

    ¶ People who NEVER wonder whether the world could be a BETTER PLACE.

    ¶ People who NEVER take risks or think independently.

    ¶ People who do not believe in sacrificing for the good of others.

    ****************************************************************************************

    There now. Does that pretty much describe your dream employee?

    365: Were you never young? Did you never offer to sacrifice yourself for a higher ideal? And weren't there others who thought you foolish for doing so?

    Be honest now . . .

    [Next up: Obscenity.]

    Posted 7 months ago #         
  24. Oh no . . . wait a minute.

    That's not it.

    Posted 7 months ago #         
  25. Random thoughts:

    Could all the jobs we've shipped overseas have anything to do with our unemployment problem? How do we feel about sending all our $ to China etc. instead of keeping them here to support our own nation and people?

    Personally, I'd be in DC with a torch and pitchfork over this issue alone if I wasn't the only one there.

    Carter and Obama the worst presidents ever? Right. Reagan, Nixon, liars and criminals were MUCH better. I'll never swallow that load of tired BS.

    Posted 7 months ago #         
  26. kootchman
    Member Profile

    Not in my profession. However, you WILL do a lot of things MY way until I have some confidence in your autonomy. Seems to me that is the way most people I know started. Now JoB ... funny thing, with all those skill sets, there is also a start your own company option...which an amazing number of people do. Just to reflect a bit though...it was a heck of a lot easier to do 30 years ago. Imagine having to report a cash deposit to the federal government of over$10,000? Or file as a sole prop with a gross income over 80K every quarter to the state,.. "stuff" that makes it hard to focus on getting a business up and running. Diversions.

    Posted 7 months ago #         
  27. redblack
    Member Profile

    redblack

    velo-nut, kootch, singularname, et al:

    civil servants have a saying. i think it came from the military. in any case, it's a profound bit of wisdom:

    80% of the people do 20% of the work, and vice versa. it's known as the 80/20 rule.

    the trick is figuring out how much you have to do and how much you're able to delegate.

    no, it isn't fair. but i defy any of you to change that algorithm.

    and, yeah. i completely understand ineptitude in the workplace. but they're not robots, for crying out loud. don't forget that you were a FNG once, too, and i'll go out on a limb and assert that not one of you came out of the box with skills, work ethic, and wisdom that matched the old timers' before you.

    i know i didn't, and i was humiliated a couple of times. but that experience gave me a better work ethic.

    Posted 7 months ago #         
  28. velo_nut
    Member Profile

    velo_nut

    I'd say that 80/20 rule is spot on (unless you spent your 4 years on a sub...)

    Failure polished my work ethic. Fall on my face, find out why, correct it and start again until succeeding.

    Too many people stop after falling on their face part. Then they blame some corporation for being corporationy and then go pitch a tent in the town square.

    Posted 7 months ago #         
  29. Posted 7 months ago #         
  30. singularname
    Member Profile

    JoB ... Had I known you had a crew of relations transforming backyard riots into pleasant spaces, I woulda hit on you for some assistance; however, I just made a deal with a construction pal of mine to bless my space with his quirky touch. And I'm sure these kids/young adults want to get on with their careers and lives. If they continue to run into obstacles of economy and all that is broken in our country, my hope would be for one or more of them to have an epiphanal moment when they can in fact find a more powerful calling. There are a gazillion bad hiring managers out there--and based on the experience I laid out above, I'm obviously one of them. Let's hope I've learned some things and, for the sake of your family, others have, too.

    DP ... That's the perfect job for the folks terminated. If per chance you're honing in my comment about "if you do not do a, b, c," you've misinterpreted--that was the message given after four months of cryptic and almost-complete inactivity, agreed to immediately by the person when I discovered this fact. The key "to-do's," or "do exactly as I say's," were "do not lie to me by saying you have finished something when you in fact have not," "answer your emails when they are addressed to you and have a question mark at the end of a sentence," etc. Does that really sound unreasonable of me? Regarding risk, my team *is* the risk-taking team. I take them on a weekly basis, and believe me my a$$ has been in a sling many times because of it. And I promote the jobs this way--as you can imagine, people are chomping at the bit when they hear this. Problem is: Everyone (i.e., everyone in my business) fancies themselves a genius, *but* only about one in fifty actually have the "work ethic" and the "smarts" to carry it out beyond the tips of their tongues. I'm the very first to admit that doing it in a business environment is freakin' *hard*, but that's why they get paid what they do.

    dbsea ... Outsourcing ... absolutely. Fortunately, I've managed to stave that off in my group, but I'm not sure how much longer I'll be able to do that. A painfully hysterical thing came up in a management class I took about 5 years ago. The last chunk was everyone had to get up and present a management issue they were having. So this guy starts his spiel and I'm waiting for it to get actually interesting and, who knew!--it really did get interesting. His dilemma was he had a team in India but was being forced to create a team in China to replace the one in India and "oh, my, sheesh, how am I gonna break this horrible horrible news to the Indian team." I about lost my dang lunch. *lmao* Seriously, I busted out laughing in the class about how stupid this entire scenario was. I piped in first with, "Well, just tell 'em the same thing you told the U.S. team when their jobs went to India." Saddest part? Not one person expressed they had a clue what I was talking about.

    redblack ... Totally agree with the 80/20. And you are very correct to point out that you can't treat folks like robots; I never have. I do, however, abstain from most chitchat, personal antecdotes, and the like (e.g., I just really don't give a robin's egg about someone's really really really adorable new kitty)--I like to get in and get out. If someone's sick or dealing with a family issue, I'm all over giving him or her full and sincere reign to blow off work and work through what's really important, but if I want have sushi and bowl, I wanna come home to West Seattle and do it with my kid. Something I should work on a bit.

    DP ... I'm gonna go ahead and hit Send, but give me a nip if I've hijacked this post to your disliking. Not intentional, but in the end I think that's where I wound up. My apologies.

    Posted 7 months ago #         
  31. kootchman
    Member Profile

    redblack... I dunno where it came from, but it is spot on. Now the 'trick" is..to carry over from our other shared forums.. is to reward the 20%, one, for being in the 20%, two, hopefully as an example for anyone in the 80% to make the transition to the 20%. That would be my instinct.. to compensate the 20% more for their efforts.

    Posted 7 months ago #         
  32. redblack
    Member Profile

    redblack

    i see it a little differently. the trick is to lead the 80% by example. in my experience, threats and yelling are the worst way to get someone to learn and the quickest way to douse morale. you have to get in there next to them and start throwing elbows, so to speak. make them keep up with you. that sort of thing. work yourself into a sweat - and sing while you're doing it, even if you're doing most of the work. you'll either shame them into working harder or make them quit when they see what the job takes.

    i get a little extra on top of union scale because i have that skill. i think it's a fair system.

    but i need the 80%, and so do we all. no man is an island. i don't mean to be arrogant, but they are a resource.

    but you have to remember that they're also people, no matter how much their pecadillos annoy you.

    Posted 7 months ago #         
  33. Yardvark
    Member Profile

    Yardvark

    Love seeing all these folks actually speaking up for their future. (Also love the dimissive comments of those who can't make sense of it and likely never will.) Excellent on both counts! This is just the beginning. It's gonna get weird!

    Posted 7 months ago #         
  34. a quote from a commenter on another site...

    "Yes, sometimes our democracy is inconvenient. Thank goodness for that, sometimes we need to be inconvenienced in order to move forward in a positive manner"

    Posted 7 months ago #         
  35. elikapeka
    Member Profile

    Another wrinkle in the work situation is that there are currently big differences in the personal and business styles of different generations. Google something like "generational differences in the workplace" and you'll find some interesting reading.

    I don't really deal with it too much, because I work with people online and we simply exchange work - no one cares how it gets done as long as it gets done correctly and on time. But depending on the generation of your workers, you may get better results by changing how you deal with them.

    Posted 7 months ago #         
  36. kootchman
    Member Profile

    I agree to a point. The successful biz will attract the 20%...and KEEEP them. Jack Welch has an interesting take on it. He charged his business management units to asess the state of their salaried oversights, Other than malfeasance, theft, etc.. the lowest performing 10% were called in and given one year to find another job. Which most did. The notion being, every "freshman" class had a potential 20 per center in it. It raised the game of the 80%...For the lower 10% .. GE just wasn't a good fit. GE can be faulted for many things. But it is a feared powerhouse across the globe as a competitor. Now being a bit north of the "young gun" executive.. getting in a slinging #80 lb. bags is not going to happen... and I don't expect the same drive, risk assumption, of the 80% ... but they know the standards. I did learn one thing, in the USMC... if they don't buy the "whole" program... they don't fit.

    Posted 7 months ago #         
  37. kootch..

    funny you should mention that..
    my brother is thinking of becoming their very own venture capital source..

    of course.. that is his retirement he is investing:(

    Posted 7 months ago #         
  38. kootchman
    Member Profile

    Ohhhh... well I opened 6 businesses... 3 failed, two sorta limped along for years.. til I sold em to smarter people and one "made it".. I also took out so many second mortgages... I stopped counting. Couldn't do it today... smarter, savvier, craftier though I think I am... I couldn't put in the hours. Sad realization cause there is still opportunity out there.

    Posted 7 months ago #         
  39. kootch...

    i am pretty sure my brother would be smart to invest his retirement in his kids...

    what i am not so sure is that this is the economy in which starting any business is a smart investment:(

    Posted 7 months ago #         
  40. kootchman
    Member Profile

    Well, KKR ripped apart my first "post college" Fortune 50 company in the wondrous of economies.. Jimmy Carter. I started up my first business three months after RR was inaugurated. The PC and software industry kicked in...and there was tons of venture capital ..As in all recession, when they recede, and they all do at some point, demand accelerates. Those trillions will come off the sidelines and go on the grand craps table. Providing, it stays on the sidelines and isn't confiscated until then, or goes overseas in search of better returns. I dunno, he may have a compelling business model..that defies the trend. I don't think I would have made the same decisions though..if I had kids at that point. I was risking my own status. Kids make for more caution.

    Posted 7 months ago #         
  41. 365Stairs
    Member Profile

    365Stairs

    "365: Were you never young? Did you never offer to sacrifice yourself for a higher ideal? And weren't there others who thought you foolish for doing so?"

    DP - Yes on all accounts...I was young... thought my ideal world would be much better by stealing a whole box of M&M's from the grocery store (what is now Endolyn Joes). Many thought this was foolish even despite that I offered to share my stolen property after the fact...

    Too Young or wrong ideal? Not quite what you were looking for...but rest assured...I remain passionate the entire world would be better if we all had our daily share of M&M's...(with the dark chocolate).

    Of course I was young and foolish and didn't know what I wanted to do in life...I could run fast and shoot really well...so I joined the Marines.

    I'm last of 8 kids so protesting for anything was out of the question and became not my nature. Some of us don't have to lead or demonstrate to get our points across...some of us "just do" because in our eyes...involving others in our mission is not necessary...we are not carpets mind you...oh no...I'm no carpet...when things really matter...and I can control the situation...you will hear from me...trust that.

    I suppose by default of my life...I judge these public protestors harshly because, although I live in the "same circumstances" as those out there...my course of action would not be to sit in the streets shouting and challenging authority to the point I got hauled off to jail...Nobody will take you seriously after that.

    Personally...if I had a real strong message as this...I would find a good writing / speaking coach, a good tailor, and a Hoovers contact list of all my local CEO's complete with #'s. Then, after studying up on said CEO's...and practicing really hard on my message (facts and figures - reeling in emotion), and being prepared for any counter message or questions, I would get all dressed up in a really nice suit, schedule a professional appointment, and take my message on that scheduled appointment to a specific list of the top CEO's of the banks and corporations I could have access to. If they don't want to meet and I've exhausted my list, I would draft my public editorial for all the local news (print and video) on what I attempted to communicate professionally and raise the bar that way. Not wanting to waste the message in a one time shot...I would also ensure the national publications knew what I tried to do...and notify them with regular follow up...

    The streets are not where decisions are made...period.

    Sometimes...while it may seem like a "pride sucking siege", you have to play the game their way and help them see things could be different and guide the decisions from their level. It works...sometimes.

    Posted 7 months ago #         
  42. Jiggers
    Member Profile

    Jiggers

    DBP..Photoshop is wonderful isn't it?

    Posted 7 months ago #         
  43. 365: I like your sense of humor. How refreshing!

    I also like your approach to problems; it's definitely one way to get things done. (Any time you need editorial assistance with a letter or speech, look me up.) However, I don't agree that acting alone is the ONLY way to get things done or even necessarily the best.

    Remember your esprit de corps? It brings out the best in a Marine, doesn't it? Well, that same spirit is what it takes for some people to shine in the civilian world as well. These folks have to feel like they're part of something bigger than themselves, and they can't feel that way until they're acting as part of a group. These people are not rugged individualists like you; they're essentially followers. But they can still believe in a good cause and can be very brave and honorable in battle.

    I'll be the first to agree with you — and kootchman and singularname and Bostonman and velo_nut, et al. — that SOME of the people at Westlake are loafers and malcontents. Any movement of this size is bound to attract some. However, I don't think it's fair to say that they're all bad apples or people who wouldn't be worthy of your trust as an employer.

    In any event, if you ever want to head down to Westlake and chat with some of them to see for yourself what they're about, I'll be happy to go with you.

    For protection.

    Posted 7 months ago #         
  44. 365Stairs
    Member Profile

    365Stairs

    DP...I enjoy your commonsense and rational thought processes!

    You really have a knack for understanding both sides of the story before rendering comments....

    I lack this tact at times...

    Thanks for keeping it real here!

    IF this lasts passed Halloween, I will go down there with you...deal!

    Posted 7 months ago #         
  45. Deal.

    Posted 7 months ago #         
  46. kootchman
    Member Profile

    Meanwhile... back in ND... 100K to drive water trucks to drill sites. Takes about two weeks to get a license. Who knows, there might be a Studs Terkel type novel in there somewhere. If you are young... now is your time to take chances. Westlake probably does not have the answers. First "black" American Express card I ever saw... my waitress at the Capt. Cook in Anchorage. they weren't black but they had a "b" code which meant as I understand it.. (she owned rentals and property...and a rental car franchise)...100K unsecured line..Started delivering parts in a PU on the Aleyska..ended up working lifing pipe sections as a heavy crane operator. Might have to get used to Folgers.

    Posted 7 months ago #         
  47. WorldCitizen
    Member Profile

    zgh2676

    Kootchman,

    Did I read that right? You're saying Obama is the worst president ever?

    Posted 7 months ago #         
  48. kootchman
    Member Profile

    It was a toss up... Jimmy Carter or Barak Obama.. but yea, I would give BHO the edge. Jimmy at least gave the appearance of being uncomfortable as a charlatan. BHO basks in it.

    Posted 7 months ago #         
  49. First "black" American Express card I ever saw... my waitress at the Capt. Cook in Anchorage. they weren't black but they had a "b" code which meant as I understand it.. (she owned rentals and property...and a rental car franchise)...100K unsecured line..Started delivering parts in a PU on the Aleyska..ended up working lifing pipe sections as a heavy crane operator. Might have to get used to Folgers.

    [shaking head rapidly back and forth and making 'yabbidy-yabba-yabba' noise]

    Dude, what the ffffooooookkk ?!

    Black WHAT ?!   Folgers WHO ?!

    Are you using some kind of random-word generator to write your posts? Or are you just . . . like, the Art Bell of the Blogosphere?

     

     

    Posted 7 months ago #         
  50. WorldCitizen
    Member Profile

    zgh2676

    Hey Kootch, check this out...

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Historical_rankings_of_Presidents_of_the_United_States

    Now, go ahead and tear this up. Damn liberal media...oh wait, they address that "problem".

    Posted 7 months ago #         

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