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NOW the MOM who had the kittens is DEAD

Started 11 months ago by hammerhead
Latest reply from JanS

hammerhead
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In my last post about the dead snake, I told you about a pregnant cat at Nickelsville. I knew this was going happen and needless to say I am so pissed off.

Another useless suffering of animal. This has got to stop.

Posted 11 months ago #
mehud7
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Mother cat suffered and died giving birth. She had no medical care. Owner refuses to give kittens to rescue. Sadly their chances now are slim.

Posted 11 months ago #
munchkin22
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Just left a message with Furry Faces to see if maybe they can help in some way.

Posted 11 months ago #
mehud7
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Mom is dead and owner won't give kittens to rescue. Not sure what Furry Faces can do? Animal Control WILL be called though.

Posted 11 months ago #
hammerhead
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NO I told them I would not call animal control YET. They are going to have a meeting on this issue. I have called Scott Marrow. While they did try calling me at 6:30 am I was taking care of the other 35 rescues kittens in my care. When I found out I went down there asap. They buried the body which in not sanitary in this situation, of course they could have done it far away.

Furry Faces can do no more than what I have already done, no disrespect to F3.

She can go get formula but can't get to South Seattle vet, which up the hill. Oh yeah that's right they have no money to have paid for the bill.

I understand there is a very fine line between people rights and NV being a democracy, but when it comes to animals being neglected and suffering, breeding should not be allowed in any way. Plus animal control really can't do anything, the laws are not strong enough.

The neglect here was they did not get the cat to the vet. One of the security people told me that she didn't "neglect" the moma cat. I of course disagree.

Posted 11 months ago #
furryfaces
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Sad...this is very, very sad. We met the beautiful mom cat...she was very sweet. It is so not okay that she sufferred and died.

munchkin22 thank for thinking we might be able to negotiate the kittens away. Since the woman will not surrender the kittens voluntarily, the only entity that has the legal power to take the kittens is Seattle Animal Shelter. Let's hope they can get their soon....newborns are very, very fragile.

Posted 11 months ago #
Cait
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Yup - I am officially pissed off now. Hammerhead - if you need any resources or help you know how to get a hold of me. Thank goodness for you, that's all I'm going to say without risking people getting all self righteous on me. This is just disgusting!

Posted 11 months ago #
JanS
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no more so disgusting that in the richest country in the world we have people living in tents in a field?

Posted 11 months ago #
hammerhead
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yes jan I agree but some choose to be there. that too has been confirmed, others like the ones I hired want to get out.

Posted 11 months ago #
JanS
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HH, I agree with youj. I simply don't find what happened "disgusting". I find it sad....sad that it happened, sad that the person maybe know no better, sad that there wasn't a different outcome, sad for the kittens. I hope the camp takes this to heart. I'm sure it's a learning experience for them. but "disgusting"? no..

Posted 11 months ago #
JoB
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The kittens are no longer in the camp.
They were adopted this morning by someone who lives in the area.

Posted 11 months ago #
oddreality
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Adopted? New born kittens?????
This whole animal situation there makes me sick. Yes, I feel for the humans but they have no business with pets that are pregnant, pets that are not spayed and neutered and Chihuahuas?? No they do not belong there breeding or not!! I've had Chis for years and they get COLD when the temps drop.They shiver and shake,they sit by the heat ducts to stay warm...and that is in a cozy house!There is not any way to keep them warm enough in the winter in a camp out in the open.
Sorry, I disagree with the animal policies there. They need to love their pets enough to do the right thing.PERIOD.

Posted 11 months ago #
EmmyJane
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Oh how very sad. It constantly amazes me that we consider ourselves a superior species to all others and then behave the way we do. Selfish selfish selfish.

Posted 11 months ago #
JoB
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Odd reality ..

Would it have been better to euthanize the kittens after their mom died?

Posted 11 months ago #
GenHillOne
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The snake most likely froze or starved to death (perhaps both since without a heat source - no, a human body is not sufficient - it could not digest food), the adult cat and at least one kitten died during birth, and now other kittens will probably die as well. Both "owners" were warned of potential medical problems for their pets and they ignored the offers for help. None of these animals died a quick death (and I'd suggest not pain-free either). So yeah, I'd say disgusting and selfish. I DO know, that there are caring people at NV who feel the same way and do not want to see this happening, as well as pet owners who have taken steps to keep their companions healthy. I applaud those people and hope that they have the strength to stand up for their beliefs in the group decision-making process at NV. NV has no tolerance for violence or even threats of violence in camp against humans or animals. It simply is a matter of recognizing that neglect is also abuse.

Posted 11 months ago #
Kevin
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WELL spoken GenHillOne - thank you!

Posted 11 months ago #
hammerhead
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Thank you

Posted 11 months ago #
oddreality
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JoB, Clearly it would not have been better to euthanize those poor little kittens but it would have been a lot better to hand them over to a willing rescue that could care for them properly when the rescue suggested it. Newborns take special care for sure so I hope that the person who took them knows how to care for them.
So .... are they really adopted or being fostered by someone that understands the needs of tiny kittens?

Posted 11 months ago #
hammerhead
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I will find out the truth later.

Posted 11 months ago #
hammerhead
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I should also let everyone know that when I talked to the lady whose cat had the kittens, I told her I would take them, she said she wanted them back I said NO, that I would not give them back to her, that is when she of course declined. I will not apologize for not wanting to give them back as far as I am concerned she didn't deserve them back.

Yes she knew who I am as far as the me being a legit rescue.

Posted 11 months ago #
Kevin
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Good for you Pam!

Posted 11 months ago #
munchkin22
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HH:When we were down there today we were told that the remaining kittens would not accept food from an eyedropper or from what I assume were small baby type bottles. Sounded like they would not nurse, so we fear that their fate was sealed.I'm really sorry that she didn't give them up to you. What if you participated in one of their meetings and illustrated the pitfalls of animal care in a camp type situation? If it could be presented in a matter of fact manner without any reprimands or preaching, maybe some people might listen, especially those who may preside over the masses there if that's the way it works. I wouldn't want to be deprived of my pet if it was one of the only things left I had to hold on to, but I certainly wouldn't allow them to procreate. That's not responsible behavior in my opinion. But I'm not walking in their shoes, so it's not my place to judge. We just feel sorry for the kittens and hope the person that took them has the skills to pull them through.
I didn't know how involved you were at the time I tried to get F3 involved, I just knee-jerked it because we care for animals in distress and jump in to help when we can. No disrespect for you HH.
Keep up the good work. We can tell you truly care for all the furry critters.

Posted 11 months ago #
munchkin22
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Removed double posting

Posted 11 months ago #
Cait
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It sounds like HH's services and expertise are falling on some key deaf ears already. Until something is done about this systemically the same people are either going to be doing these things elsewhere or the abuse will continue. I'm sorry but allowing yourself or your neighbor to neglect an animal absolutely disgusts me. I'm not just sad about it, it makes me physically ill to think about what these animals went through.

It behooves NV to deal with this themselves and fast, otherwise if these kinds of things make their way into public knowledge (more than they already have) sympathy and help may start to dwindle. I know I'm giving it second thoughts and that is completely unfair to people like MIWS who are responsible and conscientious members of NV.

Posted 11 months ago #
velo_nut
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This thread is so full of Crazy. Wow. Am I the only one that thinks this?

Posted 11 months ago #
redblack
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velo: define "crazy."

what is it - specifically - that you find insane?

Posted 11 months ago #
angelescrest
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Wait a minute. Crazy it's gotten for sure. You're threatening the folks at NV...with what?
Cait,
What exactly are you going to take away from them? There isn't much to take. You think my sympathy has dwindled because someone neglected her animal? And the only reason you know is precisely because it is NV, under the fine microscope and judgement of all of us who have a shelter called home. Why not take on the hoarders of Seattle? The chicken ranchers? The Michael Vicks of the world? I cannot imagine a more fragile group to start threatening!
I'm astounded. Crazy all right.

Posted 11 months ago #
JanS
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Cait...that's the problem. Just like in any community you have people who may not do the right thing, and they should be educated and dealt with. Already there is one poster who is saying that all animals should be taken away from this community because of something one person has done.We shouldn't be making that call. I don't condone what the woman did, either. The owner of that cat would have been wise to take the offer of help.But, one poster is right. Perhaps that owner really has not much else to cling to, and when told wouldn't get the kittens back, turned the offer down - it's difficult to give up the last thing you consider your own, when you've lost everything else, perhaps including your dignity. It was wrong, but maybe there was an emotional reason why she did it. She needs to be educated,as does the whole camp, and I have every faith that Pamela (HH) can do that. Let's not condemn the whole camp, and let's withhold judgement on the camp as a whole. They are discussing the issue, and hopefully will work things out. I'm sorry the kittens are doing poorly. Maybe HH can get in touch with the people who have them (through the camp)and work with them if it's not too late.

Posted 11 months ago #
JanS
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angelescrest...thank you for your post

Posted 11 months ago #
Cait
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Crazy? Who said ANYTHING about threatening ANYONE? Clearly NO ONE read my post. I flat out said that I am concerned for the good folks and responsible people who are there that this might threaten their reputation for an upstanding example of how one of these camps should be run. They have done some very responsible things and cleaned up some messes VERY adeptly and I have to say I've been really impressed so far with how quickly those things have been handled. If all these posts are going to include people blindly jumping to the defense of people at NV under the completely wrong assumption that I am lumping them all together this is going to get old really REALLY quick. In fact, dare I suggest, that based on Velo's comment it already has?

And what else can be taken from them? The animals. That is the whole point here. I'm not suggesting anything punitive here (because I'm going to need to repeat it three more times, clearly) - if they allow the animals to be cared for be someone with the means to do so, then what else needs to be done? Nothing - everyone is being responsible and the animals are cared for.

Clearly the common courtesy of actually reading posts and not jumping to conclusions waved bye bye to this subject many posts back so, I'm out. On all threads involving this topic. And I'm an NV SUPPORTER.

Posted 11 months ago #
oddreality
Member Profile

JanS, I do not see anyone here saying there should be NO pets at the camp.However there clearly are some that are too fragile for that sort of environment and it is neglect to keep animals in unsafe -for that animal- conditions. Some animals do fine living like that but some just cannot . I do not think they should allow breeding and all should be "fixed". No excuse not to have them neutered/spayed.

I wish the camp did not have to exist, I wish there was warm safe housing for all.Sadly,We are a long way from that ideal and going backwards it seems. I cannot tell you how sad I am to know there are children staying there and children sleeping in cars and under overpasses.No child in this country should be living in a tent camp or living in a vehicle. I so wish we as a society could do better.Used to think we could,now I am not so sure.

Posted 11 months ago #
chrisma
Member Profile

@Cait Perhaps you should go back and read your post (#24). I believe it was this specific part that angelescrest took exception to (and for what it's worth, I had a similar reaction).

It behooves NV to deal with this themselves and fast, otherwise if these kinds of things make their way into public knowledge (more than they already have) sympathy and help may start to dwindle. I know I'm giving it second thoughts and that is completely unfair to people like MIWS who are responsible and conscientious members of NV.

I wouldn't call it threatening exactly, but it reads pretty clearly to me that you are reconsidering your support of Nickelsville as a whole, based on the alleged actions of one or two people.

Posted 11 months ago #
JoB
Member Profile

odd reality..

so who gets to decide?
and will they get to decide for everyone or just the homeless?

if this cat had given birth to a small litter and one of her kittens died and the others failed to thrive in the house next door we would never have heard about it.

And i think that is the whole point.

What makes anyone think they have more right to interfere in someone's life because they are destitute? Is debtors prison the next step?

There is a lot of jumping to conclusions about what does and does not constitute a safe and responsible home...

In my experience, jumping to assumptions and making decisions for other people often causes far more heartache than good.

Posted 11 months ago #
Cait
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I would have a problem going someplace to help people when there is animal neglect going on, (especially if there are animals being buried improperly.) That was all that was said there. I am one person who feels that way. How in the WORLD is that a threat? Yet AGAIN, I said in my latest post that I am still a supporter of NV - plain as day. I could not have been more clear. However, animal neglect is a very sensitive topic for some people and it is a topic that could cause a few bad apples to spoil a bunch more quickly than any other topic that has been brought up here.

There is no excuse for not asking me for clarification before assuming that I would threaten these people, especially given the incredible leap it would take.

Posted 11 months ago #
Cait
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Just to be clear, if my neighbor's cats passed away because they were unable to care for them properly, bred them purposely and turned down the help necessary to care for the animals, I wouldn't be going to their house and I would be offering to mow their lawn. The context does not matter, at least not to me.

I need to step away, but I'm going to be honest it's really hard for me on this subject.

Posted 11 months ago #
angelescrest
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Your neighbors probably have something called privacy because they have a home, correct? You don't really know what's going on in your neighbors' homes, nor do you have the right to trespass to find out. But there seems to be this quick and self-righteous judging of the homeless and their animals (when I'd wager that the abuse cases are a tiny percentage of the larger, sad picture of animal abuse). They're too vulnerable; heck, you don't even have to knock on their front door.

Posted 11 months ago #
chrisma
Member Profile

@cait just to be clear, I didn't say it was a threat. Your words in post #24 seemed pretty clear to me, and I didn't think they needed clarification. And for what it's worth, I'm not holding them against you. You've made it pretty clear in your subsequent posts that animal welfare is pretty important to you and I can respect where you're coming from, even if I don't necessarily agree (at least when it comes to NV). Rather, I was trying to help explain the reaction you were getting from some others here including angelescrest, since I initially reacted the same way.

I think JoB is pretty much expressing my sentiments on this matter in post #33.

Posted 11 months ago #
angelescrest
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Chrisma, thank you for expressing it so reasonably and peacefully.

Tomorrow's another day; sunnier perhaps!

Posted 11 months ago #
Cait
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Thanks, Chrisma. I still don't understand but it at least seems that you read what I said.

Posted 11 months ago #
JoB
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The hardest lesson for me to learn when i started helping people in need was that when my help came with strings.. it wasn't appreciated.

Oh.. they might take what they thought they could get for a while..
but it didn't take long for resentment to set in
and when they really needed my assistance they no longer wanted it.

If i began treating them like children who didn't get to make their own decisions I wasn't giving them a hand up.. but a hand out.

I wasn't helping them out of destitution but guaranteeing that they would remain destitute.

Days like today can make that difficult.

Yes, some people in Nickelsville make decisions i don't approve of.

But to be fair, they aren't the only ones who make decisions i don't approve of.

Family members make decisions i don't approve of.

Friends make decisions i don't approve of.

People who post on this forum make decisions i don't approve of.

some of those decisions cost those around them dearly and it breaks my heart to see that happen.

But those aren't my calls to make.

this assumption that those who find themselves without resources should let those in authority.. those with resources.. make their decisions for them.. doesn't help them and it certainly doesn't help us.

Most of all.. it won't convince a single owner of a breeding pet.. whether they live in houses or tents... that sterilization is the best option.

Sharing their grief might.

Posted 11 months ago #
Kevin
Member Profile

Just remember folks - some of the people of Nickelsville follow this blog too... These are not uneducated people. Heavy emphasis on the word PEOPLE!

I have met at least one person down there who has an MBA - a college professor no less. These are all just folks who have hit a bump in life, just like any of us could!

Whether it be a tent, or a house made of wood or stone, it is still a place called HOME.

Posted 11 months ago #
Kevin
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Sorry, duplicate post.

Posted 11 months ago #
JanS
Member Profile

Thanks, Kevin, for your words. Although I haven't actually seen it in writing on here, I get the feeling that some people in the community still think of the people in NV as "those people". It's much different thinking that what they would think of people in Gatewood,or the Admiral District, or Highpoint, or any of the myriad other communities we have around here. No one would be cocerned with the "perception" of how they do things in those communities to make it better for others to accept them. Maybe I'm wrong, and blowing smoke. It's just a feeling I get.:(

Posted 11 months ago #
Kevin
Member Profile

Yes Jan, you are so correct and spot on! Some of the Nickelsville folks are our former next door neighbors. Something, somewhere happened... and now they live in Nickelsville, a rapidly growing bedroom community of West Seattle - some of them could be your next boss...

Can we all say WELCOME, new neighbors?.
.
Still curious? - simply type in "Nickelsviile" in your favorite search engine.

Posted 11 months ago #
oddreality
Member Profile

I'd feel exactly the same way if it was my next door neighbor,or the one across the street or Bill Gates or anyone ..I abhor animal neglect and unnecessary suffering. We cannot truly be human until we are humane.Humanity has a long way to go.That is just how I feel.
Who decides JoB? We all decide for ourselves . I decide for me, you decide for you -within the law of course.I can say anything I feel [within reason ...WSB has decided on limits here as it should be ] but I am not "deciding" for anyone only myself.I can say what I want but it will not change a thing.

JanS, I think of all people that mistreat/neglect animals in any way as "those people" .I have nothing against anyone because of where they live ..only because of what they do.
I think there is a possibility that some people do not see the situation for what it is because of where it happened.I know some of you feel very protective of the camp and that's a good thing.

My feelings on situations like this are very strong so I too am leaving this thread.

Posted 11 months ago #
singularname
Member Profile

Yeah, Velo ... I'm with you ... speechless really.

Posted 11 months ago #
Kevin
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And yet YOU (singularname), and Velo Nut, cannot / will not share your REAL names / email - SO sad....

Mine is Kevin McClintic

It's in my public profile...

kevinmcc@comcast.net

I welcome your feedback

Posted 11 months ago #
JoB
Member Profile

oddreality...

here is the thing.
too many people assume the worst because the cat that died was in Nickelsville.

the only neglect that has been noted is that the cat was not taken to the vet to give birth.

it may surprise you to learn that every day somewhere in our fair little neighborhood it is pretty likely that a cat is giving birth to kittens without being taken to the vet.

funny enough, their owners expect them to survive the process... and they do. I looked up the stats and feral cats .. cats with no homes at all and likely no medical attention... manage to have a substantial number of litters all on their own. If they didn't .. there wouldn't be so many feral cats.

so let me put it to you this way...

If a stranger walked into your home, told you how irresponsible you and your friends were being keeping the animals you fed before you fed yourself.. let alone breeding them... and demanded you give the animal up to them forever because they thought you were irresponsible...
just what would you tell them?

better yet..
what do you think your neighbor would tell you?

Posted 11 months ago #
velo_nut
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My name is.... Velo_nut.

Posted 11 months ago #
2 Much Whine
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Is nut your middle name, last name or part of a hyphenation? I did a search for "nuts in West Seattle" and it led me to the blog forums . . . . .

Posted 11 months ago #

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