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No Stop Signs = Accidents in our neigborhoods!

Started 3 months ago by tatmanb
Latest reply from Dunno

tatmanb
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How many people have been involved in accidents in our neighborhoods because we have no stop signs in most intersections. Just curious how often this is happening...my family has been involved in 2 within 6 months. Totally preventable!

Posted 3 months ago #
rico
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Been driving in neighborhoods in Seattle with uncontrolled intersections for 30 years, never had an accident, of course virtually stopping at each intersection is likely the reason.

Posted 3 months ago #
datamuse
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Me? None.

Someone DID almost t-bone my car at the top of Highland Park Way because they HAD a stop sign, and thought I did too...

Posted 3 months ago #
MargL
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Speaking from experience as a Seattle transplant living in a city (San Fran) that has 4-way-stops at almost every single intersection I can tell you it does _NOT_ always prevent accidents!
Daughter and I were on our way to the DMV to register our car in CA and got T-Boned by a guy texting on his cell phone who did not bother to look up and check for cross traffic before he did a 'California stop' at the intersection.
I hate driving here because even with the stop signs I cannot assume the cross traffic is actually going to stop.
So, it's not stop signs, it's attentive driving that's going to save you.

Posted 3 months ago #
KBear
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Four-way stops at every intersection would create traffic backups, cause more air and noise pollution, waste fuel, and contribute to wear and tear on brakes and other parts. Two-way stops would encourage speeding, because drivers wouldn't slow down (like they should be doing for uncontrolled intersections.) It's true that many Seattle drivers don't drive safely through uncontrolled intersections, but stop signs aren't a magic cure for bad driving.

Posted 3 months ago #
tatmanb
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In a land where this is so common I can't believe how many people don't realize that they should yield to the right. Because nobody follows this basic rule, you still have to come to almost a complete stop to look both ways. I can't see that this is any easier on our cars or gas mileage. If you want easy flow, head to the arterial.

Posted 3 months ago #
tatmanb
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FROM 2011 SDOT

odd, westcoastdeb, Newbie & Chris, I have asked SDOT about these issues.
1) At all uncontrolled intersections, i.e. with no stop or yield signs, when vehicles approach the intersection simultaneously, the car on the RIGHT has the RIGHT of WAY. This is in the state driving manual. If drivers only knew and obeyed this basic, we would have far fewer accidents.
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Unfortunately many residential sides streets in West Seattle have become de facto arterials with drivers using them as short cuts. Once people start speeding and not Yielding to the car on the RIGHT, others are forced to improperly yield (see westcoastdeb above). This improper, but overly polite, yielding denigrates the language of road rules and reinforces the de facto arterials.
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SDOT claims that if expensive Yield and Stop signs are installed at these uncontrolled intersections, statistics show that drivers just ignore them. As a result higher speeds and more accidents occur.
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Chris’ cornfield example begs the question, why stop when you are miles from any other vehicles. I imagine few people stop in those circumstances.
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todd is certainly correct in saying that someone failed to yield the right of way. The culprit should be easily determined by examining the damage to the vehicles and the direction of the car and bus.

Comment by yield to right — November 8, 11 12:01 pm

Posted 3 months ago #
datamuse
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In Washington, that rule only applies at uncontrolled intersections if two or more cars arrive at the same time.

If you get there first, you go first.

If the other car got there first, it goes first.

Posted 3 months ago #
oddreality
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Been driving here for all my adult life ..and my teen years.I am 60.Had one accident when I was 16 and had just gotten my license. I always look both ways before entering ANY intersection.Maybe you are not looking because you are expecting others to follow the laws?? You can't assume people will.
Cannot imagine having so many accidents in such a short time.

Posted 3 months ago #
Smitty
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It's amazing how many people just assume the cars entering the intersection will slow down. All cars but them of course....sorry folks, you all need to slow down as you approach uncontrolled intersections or pay the consequences.

Posted 3 months ago #
me on 28th Ave SW
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Look right-left-right before entering unmarked intersection. At least that was what I was taught in Driver's Ed circa early 80s. No accidents yet. Thanks Mr Waterhouse!

Posted 3 months ago #
JayDee
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I think the rule behind uncontrolled intersections is that it teaches the drivers to self-police. I know that heading uphill on Hanford at 57th once I nearly got creamed by a Jetta that didn't flinch going uphill from Admiral. The only reason he didn't hit me is because Hanford is uphill with limited visibility due to parked cars and is the weakest link. Uphill generally gets the ROW, downhill on Hanford and 57th generally trump. But that Jetta came within inches of disaster (Well, so I guess did I...)...

Posted 3 months ago #
The Velvet Bulldog
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My Driver's Ed teacher at WSHS was Mr. Foss (er...I think that was his name.) He told gory stories and make us look for articles in the newspaper about wrecks that described how they happened, and we'd have to write down how we would have avoided that wreck. His lessons stuck with me. I slow down at each uncontrolled intersection and look both ways, much to the consternation of the person behind me I'm sure. However, I've had so many instances where other drivers coming through the intersection didn't bother to look, much less slow down, that I'd have been creamed many times over if I weren't the one being cautious.

Like JayDee said--Self-policing.

Posted 3 months ago #
Parentof2
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I almost had an accident yesterday morning on the way to taking my son to school. It's difficult to see oncoming traffic when people are parking their cars at the corners. There should always be a clear line of sight when approaching an unmarked intersection.

Posted 3 months ago #
todd_
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I agree Parent. There is a law regarding how close one can park to an intersection. Unfortunately it is rarely practiced by drivers or enforced by the city.

Posted 3 months ago #
tom kelley
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Speaking of line of sight, it was a topic when the Mayor held a meeting at the SWCC in December. The concern was about the planting of shrubs near intersections that obstruct the view of of oncoming traffic. I don't know if anything came of it but existing codes were mentioned that made it the responsibility of the property owners to maintain their plants so as not to obstruct the view.
What's the law about traffic circles? I was told recently that the direction one may go is optional depending on the presence of other vehicles.

Posted 3 months ago #
miws
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TVB, yep, it was Mr. (Ted) Foss! He was my Driver's Ed teacher at Sealth.

I, too, have always been one to slow down at uncontrolled intersections.

Maybe that's how we can tell who his other students were; slow down at an intersection? You must've been a student of Mr. Foss! ;-)

Mike

Posted 3 months ago #
maplesyrup
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Never happened to me in over 18 yrs in W. Seattle. But I always slow down and look both ways before every intersection. I like that a lot better than having to stop all the time.

However, there might be cause to put a stop sign in areas where accidents repeatedly happen. Just not every intersection.

Posted 3 months ago #
pattilea
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I had Mr. Foss, too!!!!

Posted 3 months ago #
thansen
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We live in Westwood on 37th Ave SW. This is the only street that goes all the way through from Thistle to Barton for the Ferry.

None of the intersections have stop signs and there's only 1 roundabout on 37th at Cloverdale. So for cars going to Barton, once they clear that roundabout, they fly down 37th for 4 blocks and almost every day there's a near miss or an accident. I’ve seen cars going well over 35 mph down my residential street and I’m sick of it

We have been petitioning for at least 1 more roundabout but have been told no. I guess a person will have to be hit or killed before we get one

Posted 3 months ago #
The Velvet Bulldog
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I can't remember something a client asked me to do last week, but I can remember the name of my high school Driver's Ed instructor. Why, hello middle-age.

Posted 3 months ago #
miws
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Welcome to the world of CRS, TVB!

Mike

Posted 3 months ago #
Pibal
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We could follow the Claire Dunfey example:

http://abc.go.com/shows/modern-family/episode-detail/door-to-door/859426

Posted 3 months ago #
kootchman
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Thirty plus years and never an intersection accident. Just follow the rules, be attentive. They should raise the speed limits and facilitate faster traffic flow in designated arterials, or we will see more short cuts through neighborhood streets.

Posted 3 months ago #
JoB
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"Been driving in neighborhoods in Seattle with uncontrolled intersections for 30 years, never had an accident, of course virtually stopping at each intersection is likely the reason."

thanks rico... me too.

" They should raise the speed limits and facilitate faster traffic flow in designated arterials, or we will see more short cuts through neighborhood streets. "

Kootch...

raising speeds on streets that accommodate automobiles, bikes and pedestrians is not the answer.

self control is

Posted 3 months ago #
kootchman
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Slower speeds, means greater density aggregations. That leads to residential streets being utilized more heavily and less likely to be policed or have pedestrian concerns as part of the signage plan. The arterial that turns on my corner is used less, far less then the by pass up the residential street, with 4 blocks of steep hills and limited pedestrian views. Sometimes faster is better.

Posted 3 months ago #
miws
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kootch, you're channeling hooper! ;-)

Mike

Posted 3 months ago #
I Wonder
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First into the intersection isn't always the legal course. How do you prove, and what is the tolerance for whats considered "first"? We cleared two of four lanes when we collided with another car entering the same intersection. Guess who was ticketed? The other driver never even looked, head was locked straight on. But since she was on the right, it didn't matter to SPD. Her word against ours, although we felt the spot of the contact in the intersection demonstrated we entered it first. We saw her the whole way and kept expecting her to yield, but by then it was too late. We braked, otherwise she would have tagged our rear fender instead.

Posted 3 months ago #
Dunno
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So what if you are on the right, what does that do for you and your family when a car slams into you at 30 mph and you and family are hurt badly!

Drive defensive, never trust another to stop for you. Has worked for me. Does it piss me off, yes, but at least I'm not 6 feet under.

Posted 3 months ago #